Date   

Re: Headstock shims...

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

I think there is a slight problem with semantics here.  When talking
about the headstock, spindle and the bearings, one refers to the
"front" or "rear" of the headstock, spindle and/or bearings.  The
front is the end of the spindle where the tooling is mounted (like
chucks, face plate, etc.).  The rear is the opposite end.

When the OP mentioned "left" and "right" shim packs, it sounded
to me that they had one of the older 9 inch lathes that used bearings
with two shim packs per bearing (one on each side of the bearing and
hence, a left and a right shim pack).

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: Headstock shims...

oscar kern
 

Yes I what you do


Re: Headstock shims...

Thomas Harrold
 

actually, my SB9 uses one shim on each side of the headstock, so that was exactly what I was asking - can they each be a different thickness, and from the sound of it...yes.

So I assume I can do the spindle deflection test from BOTH sides of the spindle, and adjust each shim pack accordingly, to get my .001-.0015 clearance.


Re: Headstock shims...

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

But you were taking the wrong point from the initial post.


Re: stuck chuck

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Managed to get the stuck chuck off today.

Gripped an offcut of 1 1/4" Whitworth hexagon in the chuck.  Engaged the belt on the slowest non backgear speed, just to use the inertia to reduce shaft rotation.  Applied a 3/4" drive electric impact wrench via a socket.

30 secs later, nothing.

Removed a thin shim from both sides of the chuck end headstock bearing and clamped it up tight.  Applied both the impact wrench plus a long open ended spanner to the hexagon, and applied a 14lb hammer to the spanner.  It took a few blows, but it came off.  If the headstock spindle had still rotated, I was intending to similarly lock the other end bearing.

Note:  I had used ISO 1000 viscosity steam oil on the threads when assembling it.

Chuck run back on gently, headstock bearing shims refitted, and lathe used normally.

PHEW!

Eddie

On Monday, 13 January 2020, 09:04:35 GMT, eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:


Me too!  Also, I note that the illustrated machine has V belt drive and there appeares to be a gap between the pulley and the gear.  Our 14.5" has flat belt and no gap.  Ideas anyone?  I have a rather seriously stuck chuck at present, as it started to unscrew when I switched off, so to prevent it going flying, I switched back on again rather hurriedly and it seated in place with a significant bang.

I would caution against using the front diaphragm of the headstock casing as a reaction point, as it is a rather thin casting.  Whatever you do, keep the forces acting dead in line through it and do not drive a wedge between it and the bull gear, or you may fracture it out.  The dog for the bull gear to mandrel connection on the 14.5" is on the outer end, and the only exposed part is a rather slender handle that I would hesitate to use for this.

Hoping to upgrade to a similar size machine with Camlock!

Eddie


On Sunday, 12 January 2020, 19:14:49 GMT, Steven Schlegel <sc.schlegel@...> wrote:


Is the shaft square in that area, or do you get leverage off the pin? I am trying to figure out how it works.

Steven


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Chips <sakr4360@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 9:21:36 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] stuck chuck
 
Newb here, first post.
Mine was stuck when I got it due to sitting for 20+ years and yes I broke a tooth on the back gear.
Make one of these from 1/4 thick plate then put it on the bull gear opposite side of the little push pin that engages the pulley. Then you can crank on the chuck.
You can thank me later.


Re: Headstock shims...

oscar kern
 


That was the exact. Point I was stating


Re: Headstock shims...

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

There seems to be some misunderstanding about keeping the shim
packs even.  My reference is to bearings that use two shim packs on
each bearing.  Lathes like the Heavy Ten and larger use two packs per
bearing and some older 9 inch models did too.  Shimming of bearings
between front and rear bearings have no relation to each other other
than the clearance specification.  Later 9 inch and 10K models use only
one shim pack per bearing and hence there is no point to keeping bearing
ship packs even.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: South Bend for Sale

Payson
 

wow


Re: Tumbler Mod

Roger Bickers
 

That reversing lever set up is one more reason I like the old wide bed Series O 9" lathes. It's just like the one (in design) used on the heavy 10. Roger


On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 9:15 PM, mike allen
<animal@...> wrote:


Tumbler Mod

mike allen
 


South Bend for Sale

Keith Douglass
 

If I didn’t live 4 hours away, this would already be in my truck :-D

-Keith


Re: Headstock shims...

oscar kern
 


If you have  more wear on one bearing than, the other you can not shim them the same.I used to scrape spindle  bearing  in on large grinders and it would be nice to use the same shim but realistic.  Also I use a torque  wrench so I can controll the lift better, one may have 30# the other could have40#


Re: Headstock shims...

Steven H
 

Might be blasphemy, but aluminum cooking foil is about .001” thick.
Steve Haskell


On Tuesday, January 21, 2020, wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:

Hi There,

1) do you try to keep both the right and left shims at the same thickness?
2) How tight are the bolts supposed to be?
3) should the shims be the right thickness so you can torque down the bolts, and the spindle still spins freely?
4) any good tutorials on how to properly adjust the headshock shims, or is it basically trial and error?

I'll try to answer your questions.  Shim packs should be kept as
even in thickness as possible.

I've never seen a torque spec. for the headstock bearing bolts but
I go with 25 to 35 lbs.-ft.

When bearing clearances are set correctly, the spindle should rotate
freely or at least, can be turned by hand.  Correct bearing clearance
depends on the type of bearings in the headstock.  Lathes with cast
iron bearings should have .0010" to .0015" clearance when the spindle
is lifted with 75lbs. of force and pushed down with the same force.

Bronze bearings are set a little tighter at .0007" to .0010" clearance
using the same lift and push force as above.  This should be measured
as close to the bearing as possible (like on the register area when
checking the front bearing). 

Originally, the shim packs included a loose single .001" shim to remove
(or add) when removing one of the laminated .002" shims is too much. 
Laminated shims were soldered together using a very soft solder. 
A sharp knife can be used to peel off one shim layer.  Always measure
the thickness of the removed shim to make sure you removed only one
layer.  I keep some .001" and .002" shim stock on hand to make a
replacement shim as needed.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: Headstock shims...

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

1) do you try to keep both the right and left shims at the same thickness?
2) How tight are the bolts supposed to be?
3) should the shims be the right thickness so you can torque down the bolts, and the spindle still spins freely?
4) any good tutorials on how to properly adjust the headshock shims, or is it basically trial and error?

I'll try to answer your questions.  Shim packs should be kept as
even in thickness as possible.

I've never seen a torque spec. for the headstock bearing bolts but
I go with 25 to 35 lbs.-ft.

When bearing clearances are set correctly, the spindle should rotate
freely or at least, can be turned by hand.  Correct bearing clearance
depends on the type of bearings in the headstock.  Lathes with cast
iron bearings should have .0010" to .0015" clearance when the spindle
is lifted with 75lbs. of force and pushed down with the same force.

Bronze bearings are set a little tighter at .0007" to .0010" clearance
using the same lift and push force as above.  This should be measured
as close to the bearing as possible (like on the register area when
checking the front bearing). 

Originally, the shim packs included a loose single .001" shim to remove
(or add) when removing one of the laminated .002" shims is too much. 
Laminated shims were soldered together using a very soft solder. 
A sharp knife can be used to peel off one shim layer.  Always measure
the thickness of the removed shim to make sure you removed only one
layer.  I keep some .001" and .002" shim stock on hand to make a
replacement shim as needed.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: Headstock shims...

Thomas Harrold
 

Thank you, hose pictures are a good start.  I'd still like to hear from others who have done shim adjustments on SB9 lathes.

Thanks,

-Tom


Re: Headstock shims...

Steven H
 

In the files section there is a TechInfo folder and in that folder is another folder entitled Bearing Adjustment. that info should help. Good luck.


Steve Haskell
Troy, MI

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On Tuesday, January 21, 2020, Thomas Harrold via Groups.Io <thomas.harrold@...> wrote:

Hi, I noticed some odd behavior from my SBL 9" (circa 1957).  I could visibly see stock in the chuck moving when the lathe was running.
When I put an indicator on the chuck, and even on the end of the stock (a dowel pin, or drill rod), I would see virtually NO movement.

So I lifted UP on the stock, and...I could actually see movement of the entire chuck and spindle. 

I restored this lathe 3-4 years ago, and was just learning about SBL (and older lathes in general), so when I re-assembled the headstock, I put the original shims back in, tightened down the headstock, and forgot about them. 

I pulled the shims.  Found what appears to be a solid aluminum shim, and the brass "shim pack", which is layers of .002" shim stock somehow glued together.

I remove a layer, and re-assembled.  Better, but not perfect.  Before I continue down this path, I thought I'd ask about best practices when tweaking the headstock bearing spacing.

1) do you try to keep both the right and left shims at the same thickness?
2) How tight are the bolts supposed to be?
3) should the shims be the right thickness so you can torque down the bolts, and the spindle still spins freely?
4) any good tutorials on how to properly adjust the headshock shims, or is it basically trial and error?

Thanks in advance,

-Tom


Headstock shims...

Thomas Harrold
 

Hi, I noticed some odd behavior from my SBL 9" (circa 1957).  I could visibly see stock in the chuck moving when the lathe was running.
When I put an indicator on the chuck, and even on the end of the stock (a dowel pin, or drill rod), I would see virtually NO movement.

So I lifted UP on the stock, and...I could actually see movement of the entire chuck and spindle. 

I restored this lathe 3-4 years ago, and was just learning about SBL (and older lathes in general), so when I re-assembled the headstock, I put the original shims back in, tightened down the headstock, and forgot about them. 

I pulled the shims.  Found what appears to be a solid aluminum shim, and the brass "shim pack", which is layers of .002" shim stock somehow glued together.

I remove a layer, and re-assembled.  Better, but not perfect.  Before I continue down this path, I thought I'd ask about best practices when tweaking the headstock bearing spacing.

1) do you try to keep both the right and left shims at the same thickness?
2) How tight are the bolts supposed to be?
3) should the shims be the right thickness so you can torque down the bolts, and the spindle still spins freely?
4) any good tutorials on how to properly adjust the headshock shims, or is it basically trial and error?

Thanks in advance,

-Tom


Re: Mica Undercutting Accessory.

Nitro
 

It had to do with the material that the brushes were made out of.
Higher load starting motors had higher copper content as opposed to the higher carbon contact of a generator brush that got accelerated wear from the mica.

I have the factory motorized mica undercutter for my Atlas 618, but at this stage of my game, it is purely a relic ;)


Re: Mica Undercutting Accessory.

bob
 

The bulletin printed by SB mentioned that starters don't get undercut but not why. Thanks for the additional info.


Re: Mica Undercutting Accessory.

bob
 

Thank you for the Bulletin. Printed, read and saved. Very helpful.