Date   
Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

Nelson Collar
 

John
Do you think it might be possible to place a draw bar and some sort of turned center with a larger diameter than the faceplates hole. Then use standoff to mount your work and run on in reverse. I'll check back.
Nelson

On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 10:44:41 PM CST, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:


So far I haven't had to run my SB Heavy 10L in reverse so I've not run into the problem.  But having said that I have this nice Harmonic Drive that will become the A axis on my CNC mill conversion.  It needs a face plate and it's been suggested that I make it compatible with lathe so work that has been turned on the lathe can be unscrewed and transferred to the A axis for further milling.

 

But of course one may not be able to set up all milling so that the cutter load always torques the chuck tighter.  The casting I'm going to pour for the harmonic drive is large enough that I'd be able to turn the 10" faceplate.  So I've been looking at ways to key the chuck to keep it from unscrewing.  

 

So I could spin it onto the A Axis and then lock it somehow.  One thought was to make the shoulder that the chuck registers against a bit longer and add a fine pitch nut onto that so that I'd be able to thread the chuck onto the A axis spindle and then turn the nut against the chuck back plate. 

 

Does that sound reasonable?  One could even lock a threaded collar onto the actual lathe spindle and have a lock nut on it too?

John Dammeyer

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of john kahrs via Groups.Io
Sent: November-28-19 1:41 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

I was looking at those pictures of the hook thinking, maybe no one will explain this... the hook mystery will haunt me forever. Now I can finally move on.

Also, the chuck spun off my SB 9A last week when I tried to shorten a cap screw with a tool mounted inverted. The lathe was running in reverse so the screw wouldn’t work itself out of the nuts holding it in the chuck. So L00 conversion... I get it.

jk

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

david.french@...
 

Webb,

It's good to see another successful Heavy 10 project - thanks for sharing the photos. Happy to help you with the drawing.

I'm in the process of putting mine back together. I found it at an estate sale with a nice set of nearly new L00 chucks, some faceplates and a 5C collet closer; it came from the factory with the L00 spindle and taper attachment according to the build card.

I had Lindmark Machine Works in Seattle rework the ways and the saddle using their "small" 20 ft. long planer. They built up the saddle with Turcite and fit it and the tailstock to align properly with the headstock, and also rebuilt the worn cross slide dovetail to make it perpendicular to the bed, and it turned out really well. They have quite a bit of experience rebuilding machine tools. I'm looking forward to completing my rebuild and seeing how it turns. The bed had about .018 wear near the headstock and it appears that the previous owner didn't understand what oil is used for. It has a hard bed; the ways under the headstock are noticeably softer.

Thanks for the explanation about the hook! I was curious about what it is used for.

Dave in Lake Stevens WA

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

ww_big_al
 

Or you could use a locking setscrew. Of course the chuck would always have to stop at the same spot.

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Dammeyer
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2019 11:44 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

So far I haven't had to run my SB Heavy 10L in reverse so I've not run into the problem.  But having said that I have this nice Harmonic Drive that will become the A axis on my CNC mill conversion.  It needs a face plate and it's been suggested that I make it compatible with lathe so work that has been turned on the lathe can be unscrewed and transferred to the A axis for further milling.

 

But of course one may not be able to set up all milling so that the cutter load always torques the chuck tighter.  The casting I'm going to pour for the harmonic drive is large enough that I'd be able to turn the 10" faceplate.  So I've been looking at ways to key the chuck to keep it from unscrewing. 

 

So I could spin it onto the A Axis and then lock it somehow.  One thought was to make the shoulder that the chuck registers against a bit longer and add a fine pitch nut onto that so that I'd be able to thread the chuck onto the A axis spindle and then turn the nut against the chuck back plate. 

 

Does that sound reasonable?  One could even lock a threaded collar onto the actual lathe spindle and have a lock nut on it too?

John Dammeyer

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of john kahrs via Groups.Io
Sent: November-28-19 1:41 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

I was looking at those pictures of the hook thinking, maybe no one will explain this... the hook mystery will haunt me forever. Now I can finally move on.

Also, the chuck spun off my SB 9A last week when I tried to shorten a cap screw with a tool mounted inverted. The lathe was running in reverse so the screw wouldn’t work itself out of the nuts holding it in the chuck. So L00 conversion... I get it.

jk

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

John Dammeyer
 

So far I haven't had to run my SB Heavy 10L in reverse so I've not run into the problem.  But having said that I have this nice Harmonic Drive that will become the A axis on my CNC mill conversion.  It needs a face plate and it's been suggested that I make it compatible with lathe so work that has been turned on the lathe can be unscrewed and transferred to the A axis for further milling.

 

But of course one may not be able to set up all milling so that the cutter load always torques the chuck tighter.  The casting I'm going to pour for the harmonic drive is large enough that I'd be able to turn the 10" faceplate.  So I've been looking at ways to key the chuck to keep it from unscrewing.  

 

So I could spin it onto the A Axis and then lock it somehow.  One thought was to make the shoulder that the chuck registers against a bit longer and add a fine pitch nut onto that so that I'd be able to thread the chuck onto the A axis spindle and then turn the nut against the chuck back plate. 

 

Does that sound reasonable?  One could even lock a threaded collar onto the actual lathe spindle and have a lock nut on it too?

John Dammeyer

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of john kahrs via Groups.Io
Sent: November-28-19 1:41 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

I was looking at those pictures of the hook thinking, maybe no one will explain this... the hook mystery will haunt me forever. Now I can finally move on.

Also, the chuck spun off my SB 9A last week when I tried to shorten a cap screw with a tool mounted inverted. The lathe was running in reverse so the screw wouldn’t work itself out of the nuts holding it in the chuck. So L00 conversion... I get it.

jk

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

john kahrs
 

I was looking at those pictures of the hook thinking, maybe no one will explain this... the hook mystery will haunt me forever. Now I can finally move on.

Also, the chuck spun off my SB 9A last week when I tried to shorten a cap screw with a tool mounted inverted. The lathe was running in reverse so the screw wouldn’t work itself out of the nuts holding it in the chuck. So L00 conversion... I get it.

jk

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

ww_big_al
 

Interesting. My L1 does not require a hook. The nut is wide enough to push the chuck off without it.
Al

-----Original Message-----
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Dammeyer
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2019 3:57 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

Ah. So if you just loosened the nut you're still left with the chuck stuck onto the taper. If the hook is flipped up behind the nut then the nut can't move towards the headstock so it pushes the chuck towards the tailstock. And that releases it from the tape.
Got it!
Thanks
John


-----Original Message-----
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On
Behalf Of m. allan noah
Sent: November-28-19 11:43 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

The hook fills the space behind the take-up nut, so that it can be
used to push the chuck off when loosening.

allan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 11:51 AM John Dammeyer
<johnd@...> wrote:

But what is the hook for?

John





From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On
Behalf Of wlw19958
Sent: November-27-19 10:56 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00



Hi Dave,

Here is the progress so far:

Thanks Again for the help!
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb



--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge
of my hand"

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 08:22 AM, Guenther Paul wrote:
I never had a chuck come loose if they are seated properly. You are just wasting your energy. Its your lathe and if you like to install a more sure to you
Chuck fastening system go for it. You will also loose some bed working lenght.
 
That all depends on the breath of experience one has in their lifetime. 
I had one come loose when I was a first year apprentice.  I caught it
before it could come off and cause damage but the experience stayed
with me and the thought is always lurking in the recesses of my mind.

As to the lost of bed length, it is only a couple inches at most.  If it becomes
critical, I can move to either my 11" Logan or 12" Clausing (both of which
are L00 and have 5 ft. beds).  I hope to have my 14" Clausing up and running
next year. 

I still have three other SBL's that I need to do something with.  Two are
10R's and one 9" cabinet model.  I plan to leave them with their original
threaded spindles. 

So GP, just remember that: There are more things in heaven and Earth,
Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.


Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

John Dammeyer
 

Ah. So if you just loosened the nut you're still left with the chuck stuck onto the taper. If the hook is flipped up behind the nut then the nut can't move towards the headstock so it pushes the chuck towards the tailstock. And that releases it from the tape.
Got it!
Thanks
John

-----Original Message-----
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On
Behalf Of m. allan noah
Sent: November-28-19 11:43 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

The hook fills the space behind the take-up nut, so that it can be
used to push the chuck off when loosening.

allan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 11:51 AM John Dammeyer
<johnd@...> wrote:

But what is the hook for?

John





From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On
Behalf Of wlw19958
Sent: November-27-19 10:56 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00



Hi Dave,

Here is the progress so far:

Thanks Again for the help!
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb



--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge
of my hand"

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

m. allan noah
 

The hook fills the space behind the take-up nut, so that it can be
used to push the chuck off when loosening.

allan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 11:51 AM John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:

But what is the hook for?

John





From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of wlw19958
Sent: November-27-19 10:56 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00



Hi Dave,

Here is the progress so far:

Thanks Again for the help!
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge
of my hand"

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

John Dammeyer
 

But what is the hook for?

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of wlw19958
Sent: November-27-19 10:56 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

Hi Dave,

Here is the progress so far:

Thanks Again for the help!
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

Bill in OKC too
 

I've been machining since 1973, with some gaps. Like 35 years, gap. But I'm pretty sure ONE TIME having a chuck spin off would be quite enough. ;)

I'm sort of planning, i.e., lightly thinking about, modifying my existing chucks to have lock screws at 120 degree angles from one another to lock the screw-on chucks in place. I'll need something to let me both angle and drill and index, which so far my shop lacks.

If I were to change a spindle, I think I'd go for the D-series spindle, just because such chucks are easy to find now. Though, if like the OP, I already had chucks of the long-taper type, it would make sense to go there.

YMMV, as they say.

Bill in OKC

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)

On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 6:09:14 AM CST, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:


Why would one  waist all the this time to convert. I bean in machining over 50 years never had a chuck come of in reverse. Yes i machined in reverse many times never had a problem. The chuck was installed properly. 

GP


On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 1:27:31 AM EST, Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining@...> wrote:


Suggest you google ‘L00 lathe spindle nose’ and you will find chart with dimensions and a cross section. The chuck fits onto a male taper, is driven by a key, and there is a locking ring that gets secured on the back of the chuck with a spanner wrench. I think it allows the spindle to be run in reverse without fear of a chuck or faceplate coming loose as is the case with a plain threaded spindle nose.

Steve Haskell


On Nov 28, 2019, at 12:59 AM, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:



Could I perhaps ask a really dumb question.

I've got a South Bend Heavy 10L lathe.  Spindle is threaded for the chucks and faceplate.

 

What's an L00 and why convert?

 

Thanks

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of david.french@...
Sent: November-27-19 8:48 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

Hi Webb,

Let us know how it turned out!

Dave

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

Guenther Paul
 

I never had a chuck come loose if they are seated properly. You are just wasting your energy. Its your lathe and if you like to install a more sure to you
Chuck fastening system go for it. You will also loose some bed working lenght.

GP


On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 10:24:44 AM EST, wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:


Hi There,

Despite anecdotal tales to the contrary, threaded chucks do
come loose.  This is especially true if one has an instant
reversing motor.

To reiterate, for the third time, all my other working lathes have
L00 spindles.  Rather than buying more chucks, I decided to
convert this Heavy Ten over to L00 for uniformity.  Also, this
particular Heavy Ten is a 10R (with the 1-7/8" spindle) and
there is something wrong with the threaded end of the spindle.
Tooling doesn't want to thread on.  Also, the smaller 1-7/8"
spindle cannot take 5C collets. They used the smaller 2A
collets (max size 11/16").  The L00 has the larger spindle
through hole and can accept 5C collets (hence 10L).

If you are happy with your threaded spindle, by all means
keep using them.  I've owned over a dozen lathes in my
life and most had threaded spindles.  After using the L00
spindle for the last 20 years, I have a preference for them.
Remember, I'm doing this to please me and I don't care if
you don't agree.  You be happy with your threaded spindle
and I'll be happy with my L00.  That's all that matters.

I do thank Dave for going to the trouble of making the measurement
and taking pictures so that my conversion went as smoothly
as it did.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Good Luck!

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

Despite anecdotal tales to the contrary, threaded chucks do
come loose.  This is especially true if one has an instant
reversing motor.

To reiterate, for the third time, all my other working lathes have
L00 spindles.  Rather than buying more chucks, I decided to
convert this Heavy Ten over to L00 for uniformity.  Also, this
particular Heavy Ten is a 10R (with the 1-7/8" spindle) and
there is something wrong with the threaded end of the spindle.
Tooling doesn't want to thread on.  Also, the smaller 1-7/8"
spindle cannot take 5C collets. They used the smaller 2A
collets (max size 11/16").  The L00 has the larger spindle
through hole and can accept 5C collets (hence 10L).

If you are happy with your threaded spindle, by all means
keep using them.  I've owned over a dozen lathes in my
life and most had threaded spindles.  After using the L00
spindle for the last 20 years, I have a preference for them.
Remember, I'm doing this to please me and I don't care if
you don't agree.  You be happy with your threaded spindle
and I'll be happy with my L00.  That's all that matters.

I do thank Dave for going to the trouble of making the measurement
and taking pictures so that my conversion went as smoothly
as it did.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Good Luck!

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

ww_big_al
 

Interesting project. Wonder how you came up with the  idea to convert to a L00 spindle.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of wlw19958
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2019 1:56 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

Hi Dave,

Here is the progress so far:

Thanks Again for the help!
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

Guenther Paul
 

Why would one  waist all the this time to convert. I bean in machining over 50 years never had a chuck come of in reverse. Yes i machined in reverse many times never had a problem. The chuck was installed properly. 

GP


On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 1:27:31 AM EST, Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining@...> wrote:


Suggest you google ‘L00 lathe spindle nose’ and you will find chart with dimensions and a cross section. The chuck fits onto a male taper, is driven by a key, and there is a locking ring that gets secured on the back of the chuck with a spanner wrench. I think it allows the spindle to be run in reverse without fear of a chuck or faceplate coming loose as is the case with a plain threaded spindle nose.

Steve Haskell


On Nov 28, 2019, at 12:59 AM, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:



Could I perhaps ask a really dumb question.

I've got a South Bend Heavy 10L lathe.  Spindle is threaded for the chucks and faceplate.

 

What's an L00 and why convert?

 

Thanks

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of david.french@...
Sent: November-27-19 8:48 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

Hi Webb,

Let us know how it turned out!

Dave

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

John Dammeyer
 

Thanks for the link Steve.  I've seen those drawings before.  But I don't understand why the photos show that hook that pivots.  If the L00 just has a nut that is turned onto the threaded part of the chuck to pull the chuck tightly onto the taper, what's the hook for?

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven H via Groups.Io
Sent: November-27-19 10:27 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

Suggest you google ‘L00 lathe spindle nose’ and you will find chart with dimensions and a cross section. The chuck fits onto a male taper, is driven by a key, and there is a locking ring that gets secured on the back of the chuck with a spanner wrench. I think it allows the spindle to be run in reverse without fear of a chuck or faceplate coming loose as is the case with a plain threaded spindle nose.

Steve Haskell

 



On Nov 28, 2019, at 12:59 AM, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:



Could I perhaps ask a really dumb question.

I've got a South Bend Heavy 10L lathe.  Spindle is threaded for the chucks and faceplate.

 

What's an L00 and why convert?

 

Thanks

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of david.french@...
Sent: November-27-19 8:48 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

Hi Webb,

Let us know how it turned out!

Dave

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

wlw19958
 

Hi Dave,

Here is the progress so far:

Thanks Again for the help!
Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

There have been several types of spindles developed to
mount tooling (chucks and faceplates) onto them.  The
earliest was the threaded type.  This type is straight
forward but has the disadvantage in that it can un-thread
if the spindle is rotated in the reverse direction.

To address this problem, there have been some different
spindle mounting systems, Type D - Camlock, Type A1 -
Short Taper, Type A2 - Short Taper and Type L - Long Taper.

Type D - Camlock seems to be the most popular of these
different types.  In my case, I own a couple other lathes
that have the Type L - Long Taper spindles.  In each type,
there are different sizes starting with L00 and go up to L3.

The chuck is drawn onto a large taper that centers the chuck
on the spindle and there is a longitudinal key that prevents the
chuck from slipping while on the spindle.  This allows the spindle
to turn in either direction without the risk of the chuck coming
loose.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

Steven H
 

Suggest you google ‘L00 lathe spindle nose’ and you will find chart with dimensions and a cross section. The chuck fits onto a male taper, is driven by a key, and there is a locking ring that gets secured on the back of the chuck with a spanner wrench. I think it allows the spindle to be run in reverse without fear of a chuck or faceplate coming loose as is the case with a plain threaded spindle nose.

Steve Haskell


On Nov 28, 2019, at 12:59 AM, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:



Could I perhaps ask a really dumb question.

I've got a South Bend Heavy 10L lathe.  Spindle is threaded for the chucks and faceplate.

 

What's an L00 and why convert?

 

Thanks

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of david.french@...
Sent: November-27-19 8:48 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

Hi Webb,

Let us know how it turned out!

Dave

Re: Heavy Ten conversion to L00

John Dammeyer
 

Could I perhaps ask a really dumb question.

I've got a South Bend Heavy 10L lathe.  Spindle is threaded for the chucks and faceplate.

 

What's an L00 and why convert?

 

Thanks

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of david.french@...
Sent: November-27-19 8:48 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Heavy Ten conversion to L00

 

Hi Webb,

Let us know how it turned out!

Dave