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Parts list / manual
Alan Simpson <alan@...>
Re: SBL 9 inch Model A (circa 1950)
Hello everyone! My pal is looking for the Parts list and manuals for the above lathe. Is there anywhere on the internet these may be downlaoded from? Thanks!! Alan Spences Bridge b.C. Canada
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furnas R4
henry rancourt <donnarancourt@...>
Hi all,
I am new to the site and really like it. I have a dayton 1hp 1 phase cap. start motor that i want to control with a furnas R4. The motor leads are p1, p2,t8,t3, t2,t5,t4 and ground. Based on the diagram in the furnas cover and the motor wiring plate, I beleive furnas connections should be: t8 to upper left, t2&t4 to middle left, p2&t3 to upper right and t5 to middle right. What gets connected to lower left and lower right. Thanks for your help Henry
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motor mount for 22A with legs
howellhandmade <howellhandmade@...>
Hello, All,
Please pardon my unfamiliarity with the forum. I just bought a 22A with cast iron legs that is realy in very nice shape for its age, despite being in pieces on a pallet at an auction. It's cleaning up nicely, but the motor mount is a mess. It looks as though originally the motor and countershaft hung on a wall behind the lathe, I assume hinged in some way to provide belt tension although the archeological evidence is far from conclusive. I've been trying to imagine different solutions to mounting a new motor, and would love to see what others have come up with for mounting motors for the leg model. I've almost decided to build a cabinet and try to find a countershaft assembly, but the lathe looks kinda cool and spindly, almost Victorian, on the legs. Thank you, Jack
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Re: Horizontal mill, ok for a beginner?
Thomas G Brandl
Gary, A vertical mill would be a bit more versital. Still, there are some operations that a horizontal mill handles better. Horizontal mills are great for roughing off stock. I have seen some mills converted (at least pictures) with Bridgeport heads. That would add to your cost. I would think you might be in the price range of a good vertical mill. I am not sure of what type of work you will be doing. You might check into the Chinese mills or keep an eye out on other brands of vertical mills. Some of them fetch less money than Bridgeports. Tom
Bill, Thanks for the quick reply. They want 1100.00 for the 8540 Clausing Mill. It has a 3 phase converter and around 40 cutters for it. The fact that its local also affects my decision, saving me any shipping fee's. Ive been told I can add a type m bridgeport head to it and have a combo vert/hor machine. I'm trying to be patient, but Ive got the bug to purchase. Thanks, Gary --- In southbendlathe@..., "Bill Wattson" wrote: > > > I think you'll find a vertical knee mill like a Bridgeport much more > useful. I looked at the chinese Rong Fu style import vertical mini- > mills as well but found that if a shopped it long enough, I could get a > Bridgeport for about the same money. Without getting into how much is > in your price range, the Rong Fu style mill drill is currently priced > at $1000 from Harbor Freight. The Bridgeport I have is a 9 x 36 Series > I J-head with chromed ways for $1350 on eBay. > > Just my opinion but I'd hold out for a vertical with a knee. You might > have to put up with a little slop from wear but you might end up with > that problem even in a well worn horizontal. > > Bill Wattson > > --- In southbendlathe@..., "Gary" > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > I am interested in purchasing a mill to go along with my old SB > > lathe. I am under the impression that a vertical mill would be more > > versatile, but most used american made units seem out of my price > > range. Ive found an older Clausing horizontal mill thats in my price > > range. I was wondering what your opinion is on this for someone with > > very little experience. > > > > Thanks, Gary > > >
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Re: Face plate for Heavy 10L.
ChristopherS
Hi John, Like I said, this topic always kicks up a lot of flack. Here's a little side bar. Wood lathe spindles come in 3/4x16, 3/4x12, 1x8, 1-1/4x8 and 1-1/2x8. These are the most common spindle configurations on this side of the pond. There may be some wood lathes that employ a register but I haven't seen them. All the wood lathe spindles I've seen employ a thread stop groove where the register would be. On the other hand wood lathes don't deal with the tolerances that a metal lathe does. Check the run-out of a chuck, remove & remount and your readings will change. Chris John Dammeyer wrote:
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Re: Face plate for Heavy 10L.
John Dammeyer
Hi,
I measured the diameter of the threads of the spindle
and came up with 2.245". Recall that my SB chucks register area was in the neighbourhood of 2.280"
while the spindle register was 2.261".
A casual observer might comment that the 0.175 register
area on the spindle is just a comfortable place to stop threading when producing
as many spindles as possible during the war. The slightly larger
unthreaded area at the back of the chuck is simply a place to rest the chuck so
that it's easier to thread onto the spindle.
Other manufacturers may well have used both to register
the chucks for interchangebility between
lathes.
Sherline lathes use 3/4-16 TPI so perhaps the question
is best answered by a current North American Manufacturer of lathes. What
do they do? And why?
John Dammeyer
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Re: Face plate for Heavy 10L.
ChristopherS
Take a look at your spindle. You will see a small area close to the HS where the threads end just prior to running into the shoulder. That unthreaded area is called the Register. The Register along with the Shoulder constitute the two surfaces that accurately index anything screwed to the spindle. It's for this reason that whatever is being screwed on the spindle be accurately machined to mate with these two surfaces. Be it known that the statements I just made are argued by some who believe that the Shoulder, in concert with the Threads are what's important for repeatable alignment. I do not subscribe to this line of thought. You can search the message board and find many discussions on this topic. Enough to make your head explode. Wrap your head with duct tape prior to proceeding with the topic search. It will
keep your cranium from scattering all over the place! Chris imarelicz28 wrote:
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Re: Horizontal mill, ok for a beginner?
Gary
Bill,
Thanks for the quick reply. They want 1100.00 for the 8540 Clausing Mill. It has a 3 phase converter and around 40 cutters for it. The fact that its local also affects my decision, saving me any shipping fee's. Ive been told I can add a type m bridgeport head to it and have a combo vert/hor machine. I'm trying to be patient, but Ive got the bug to purchase. Thanks, Gary --- In southbendlathe@..., "Bill Wattson" <wwattso@...> wrote: more useful. I looked at the chinese Rong Fu style import vertical mini-get a Bridgeport for about the same money. Without getting into how muchis in your price range, the Rong Fu style mill drill is currentlypriced at $1000 from Harbor Freight. The Bridgeport I have is a 9 x 36Series I J-head with chromed ways for $1350 on eBay.might have to put up with a little slop from wear but you might end upwith that problem even in a well worn horizontal.old SB morelathe. I am under the impression that a vertical mill would be priceversatile, but most used american made units seem out of my price withrange. I was wondering what your opinion is on this for someone very little experience.
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Re: Face plate for Heavy 10L.
John Dammeyer
Hi Jeff,
Using a micrometer I measure the SB 10L (1943 vintage) register diameter at 2.261" at a temperature of 15C. I verified my vernier dial calliper against this and it too showed 2.261" I then measured the inside ID of the back plate at 2.263" using the vernier. I doubt I could have made it any closer since the way it was mounted with the spacer it was out of round or offset a tiny bit. Therefore I kept turning little bits off until it made a continuous cut at which point I stopped. Too keep this in perspective, my SB 3-Jaw measures 2.276, the SB 4-Jaw measures 2.280" and the drive plate (also SB I suspect) measures 2.280" On each of the SB units, the register section is 0.375" deep to the start of the thread as is now my new faceplate. The spindle has the thread ending at 0.175" from the flange. The size of the register has been discussed at length on this forum in the past. Some say it shouldn't touch. Other says it's just to provide clearance for junk. BTW, I also turned a 30 degree chamfer on the inside register part of the back plate a tiny bit smaller than what was on the SB parts. Oh, and at this point in time I have only cast aluminium, ZA12 and Aluminium bronze. I have yet to try cast iron although it's in the plans. The people I know who have cast using old brake rotors and drums as raw material say that it's severely lacking in carbon which is why it's tough to machine. Apparently old iron water pumps make better home casting raw material. I'm told they add charcoal but as I said, I haven't tried that yet. I found the face plate difficult to surface which leads me to think it's closer to steel than to cast iron. John Dammeyer theFAQ.html Post: mailto:southbendlathe@... Email Moderators: mailto:southbendlathe-owner@... * * * * * Manage your subscription by sending a blank message as follows: Unsubscribe: southbendlathe-unsubscribe@... Stop delivery: southbendlathe-nomail@... Daily digest mode: southbendlathe-digest@... Individual emails: southbendlathe-normal@... Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: Horizontal mill, ok for a beginner?
Bill Wattson <wwattso@...>
I think you'll find a vertical knee mill like a Bridgeport much more
useful. I looked at the chinese Rong Fu style import vertical mini- mills as well but found that if a shopped it long enough, I could get a Bridgeport for about the same money. Without getting into how much is in your price range, the Rong Fu style mill drill is currently priced at $1000 from Harbor Freight. The Bridgeport I have is a 9 x 36 Series I J-head with chromed ways for $1350 on eBay. Just my opinion but I'd hold out for a vertical with a knee. You might have to put up with a little slop from wear but you might end up with that problem even in a well worn horizontal. Bill Wattson --- In southbendlathe@..., "Gary" <killercobretti@...> wrote:
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Horizontal mill, ok for a beginner?
Gary
Hello,
I am interested in purchasing a mill to go along with my old SB lathe. I am under the impression that a vertical mill would be more versatile, but most used american made units seem out of my price range. Ive found an older Clausing horizontal mill thats in my price range. I was wondering what your opinion is on this for someone with very little experience. Thanks, Gary
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Re: Face plate for Heavy 10L.
imarelicz28 <imarelicz28@...>
Chris
Could you please explain what spindle thread/back plate thread register is, and why is it important? Thanks Bob --- In southbendlathe@..., Chris Strazzeri <cjstrazz@...> wrote: faceplate or backplate and found that it fit and ran dead on. Bison expects the user to do all of what was described in this thread. That said, I know that there are members that have more than one lathe with the same threaded spindle nose and they will say that they can interchange backplates & faceplates with no problem. Question is... Is that the norm or the exception? It only seems logical that if a user has three lathes and the register varies by a thou between them, then the plate register would have to be at least as large (+ clearance) as the lathe with the largest dia spindle register. That would make the other two lathes a less than perfect fit. a record of the register dia of every lathe SN that went out the door. That way, you could order plates from them and insure a precision fit. one for my lathe as well. On my machine/plate the plate was aprox 2.26thickness and the hub thickness are also measured from an original. What itold them to make me 10 with 1-1/2"-8 center and 10 with 2-1/4"-8centers. The 1-1/2"-8 ones fit well, the 2-1/4"-8 ones ended up 1-2that is threaded vs the amount cleared for the register. Again, I didntLogan lathes for instance seem to have the largest register areas of anyi have run across.people are not too willing/interested in doing this. I think that myfew thousandths has really hurt the sales of them. The 1-1/2"-8 onessell for much more money as they dont have to be clearenced. Seems the9" really doesnt have much of a registration surface to begin withlength and width of the registration area. The initial batch of 10 wasjust to test the waters and see if there was interest in them.
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Re: Face plate for Heavy 10L.
ChristopherS
Actually, I would be surprised if I purchased a factory new faceplate or backplate and found that it fit and ran dead on. Bison expects the user to do all of what was described in this thread. That said, I know that there are members that have more than one lathe with the same threaded spindle nose and they will say that they can interchange backplates & faceplates with no problem. Question is... Is that the norm or the exception? It only seems logical that if a user has three lathes and the register varies by a thou between them, then the plate register would have to be at least as large (+ clearance) as the lathe with the largest dia spindle register. That would make the other two lathes a less than perfect fit. Dennis would know better than me but I would guess that SB kept a record of the register dia of every lathe SN that went out the door. That way, you could order
plates from them and insure a precision fit. Just my .02 & some guessing, Chris Jeff Beck wrote:
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Re: Heavy 10
Jeff Beck
--- In southbendlathe@..., "joebass1977" <joebass1977@...>
wrote: of Rochester. Thanks.Joe, Your about 1 year too late! There was an auctioneer in your area about a year ago who sold apox a dozen Heavy 10s and 13s from a BOCES school in the buffalo area. I had bid on several of them but the prices went too high for me to justify 18 hours of driving to get them. However for a local dealer and especially for an end user they were fantastic machines/prices. I lived in Rochester for 8 years and used to find tons of deals in the Rochester Swap Sheet newspaper that comes out weekly. http://rochester.traderpub.com/books.html?i=h&v=misc Jeff
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Re: Face plate for Heavy 10L.
Jeff Beck
Hi John,
Thanks for the information. This is how i planned to machine the one for my lathe as well. On my machine/plate the plate was aprox 2.26 and the spindle it 2.27. The plate is based off of measurements i took from an original. I layed out all the holes/slots based on that. The plate OD, thickness and the hub thickness are also measured from an original. What i didnt tell the mfg was any details on the ID area. I basically told them to make me 10 with 1-1/2"-8 center and 10 with 2-1/4"-8 centers. The 1-1/2"-8 ones fit well, the 2-1/4"-8 ones ended up 1-2 thousandths tight. I will also look into the amount of the hole that is threaded vs the amount cleared for the register. Again, I didnt spec this either. I figured it was some sort of standard that the chuck mfg would know. I was mistaken. Its sort of a multi tiered problem as many will tell you that you should have as tight of a fit as possible to the register. I am finding that the registers vary alot on various makes/models machines. They even vary alot on the same make model machine. Logan lathes for instance seem to have the largest register areas of any i have run across. So many will argue that the ideal way to mfg these is to make them undersize and have people machine them. Unfourtantly, it seems people are not too willing/interested in doing this. I think that my statement in my auctions that this will/may have to be enlarged a few thousandths has really hurt the sales of them. The 1-1/2"-8 ones sell for much more money as they dont have to be clearenced. Seems the 9" really doesnt have much of a registration surface to begin with (relative to the heavy 10 anyway). So long story short,for my next batch I am going to spec the length and width of the registration area. The initial batch of 10 was just to test the waters and see if there was interest in them. Regards Jeff
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Face plate for Heavy 10L.
John Dammeyer
Hi all,
This is the story of the 10L large spindle face plate I bought off EBAY from Jeff Beck at Tools 4 Cheap. Nice faceplate. Wasn't 10" like I expected but in rechecking the EBAY posting someone had asked what the size was and it was listed there as 8.5" Ah well live and learn. My bad. Jeff had also mentioned that the shoulder for the registration part of the spindle was slightly undersize on some. It was on mine. So I had to figure out how to make it work. What I did was: 1. Turn a ring was 5/8" thick and had an ID of my spindle registration (about 2.25"). An OD of 2.75" 2. I slipped that onto the spindle and then threaded the faceplate on backwards. That prevented the thread running into the unthreaded register part of the spindle. 3. Indicating it showed it was out by about 0.001". Not bad but it wasn't centered. So then I used a carbide boring tool and very carefully removed enough until it was round. Total of about 0.0025" 4. Next I faced off the back shoulder, removed it and the ring and spun the face plate on the right way. Nice. Sucked up to the back shoulder perfectly. 5. On backwards again and I removed 0.165" of the back shoulder so that about 0.375" of the recess was left before the threads started. That results in one more thread of the spindle actually in the face plate and now matched my chucks and drive plate. 6. Back on the right way. Time to face it off. I started taking a shallow cut with a HSS tool and slow speed. Something went wrong about half way out and I noticed sparking from the tool. It had also been creating some pretty blue curls. Not cast iron for sure. Tool bit was melted and had really screwed up the surface. Called it quits for the night and started again the next morning with a roughing carbide bit and slowest back gear. That's after I did the math and realized that for that size plate at 8" I'd need 47 RPM. After multiple passes of 0.005" each time I finally was able to set the tool up for a thin shaving finishing pass and came out with a nice clean flat surface. Bit of work to remove the ridges and I have a nice solid face plate. Took forever but Yahoo!!!!. BTW, delivery from Jeff was prompt and he always immediately replied to my emails. John Dammeyer
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Re: 1923 63A 11"SB Drive question
Clive Foster
Gary
If you are tensioning a belt using the weight of the motor things go better with a slightly stiff, slightly resilient bearing as the motor pivot. A friend found that sloppy holes in thin sheet on a well rusted bolt don't do the deed and that the motor danced around quite alarmingly with changes in loads or when the joint lump in the Vee belt ran over the pulley. (Ultra cheap no name belts can have quite an alarming lump where the circle completes, rare to be able to see it but the pulley sure notices.) In the past I've found DIY rubber bushed pivots to be very effective. My method was to weld about an inch of old iron water pipe (inch or inch quarter bore) to a suitable length of inch by 1/8 thick strip making a P shaped thingy. Forcing a bit of thick wall rubber tube (car heater hose??) into the tube makes a nice rubber bush and selecting the size of the pivot rod through the middle allows you to choose the stiction force to anything between "just a tadge" and "moves if you really heave". Prolly best to lubricate the rod with red rubber grease. A pair with long stems suitably drilled to match the motor feet make nice motor mounts. A side benefit is that the rubber is very good at isolating the "single phase buzz" and similar small, high frequency vibrations. Personally I'd go for a bit stiff and add a spring to get a bit more tension. Paired support bushings made this way aver very stiff across the plane of the rod. Clive
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Re: 1923 63A 11"SB Drive question
Gary
--- In southbendlathe@..., "Gary" <killercobretti@...>
wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. I must confess, I've had this machine for awhile. I've just been afraid to run it without completely going through it and making sure everything is clean and lubricated well. Before I found this site, I did carefully remove the spindle and checked the bearings. They have seen better days, but I expected as much with her age. I'd love to take it completely apart, clean, paint and reassemble it. I havent run a lathe since I went to classes at a community college in the 80's, so I need to do some reading and give it another try. I will try to get some pictures this weekend and get them posted. I have several accessories that I dont even know what they are called. Thanks, Gary
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Cheese heads
krueger_cal <cal@...>
I found some PB blaster and will try that with heat. Kroils on order.
I figure that you guys like it so well I just need some. My thanks to all who replied. Cal
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Heavy 10
joebass1977
Anybody know where there is a Heavy 10 in Western NY? I am just west of
Rochester. Thanks.
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