Date   
Re: Motor starting jolt

Ray De Jong
 

The motor has 2 (two) things wrong in my estimation #1 - it is a quick start motor as in last reply.
Worst of all though #2 - it is too high speed for your lathe, it should be a 1725 (nominal).
South Bend lathes were only supplied with the lower speed motors and would only be useable at 3450rpm if a further speed reduction was used; as with the "as supplied pulley arrangement" a 3600 rpm motor will run the spindle at too high speed for the headstock bearings (sleeves) and would be too high speed for machining most metals unless run in back gear.
I could be wrong about this but I have operated and have owned a number of SB's from 9" to 16" and have not yet encountered a higher than 1725rpm motor except on one 14" inch line-driven SB that we converted to 4spd. automotive transmission and we used an 1140rpm motor on a 2:1 reduction from the motor to jackshaft then from the transmission output shaft onto the middle pair of flat belt pulleys
hopefully this will help
cheers
ray

On Monday, December 25, 2017, 9:58:03 AM PST, John M Griffin griffinjohnm@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 

Induction motors designed to deliver big starting torque (eg, compressor duty) can give a jolt when hooked up to something like a table saw or a lathe

eg, "The 1 HP LEESON Compressor Duty Electric Motor is a dependable and powerful single-phase motor designed especially for compressors requiring high breakdown torque and rugged mechanical construction. UL listed. CSA certified." 

LEESON Compressor Duty Electric Motor — 1 HP, 115/230V, 3600 RPM, Model# 110160



The issue is high inrush current. If you wired in a particularly stiff (high current) 115 VAC circuit in your shop, this will amplify the issue. One remedy is to wire from the outlet to the motor using a wire size and length calculated by the motor full load running current (on motor tag). This will dampen start up jolt.

The above motor is FL rated at about 13A. Just for grins, splice in a 25' - 50' roll of 14 AWG between 115 VAC outlet and motor then test. This approach would be a lot cheaper than a solid state soft start

On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Oren obolt@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

I’m thinking a soft starter would manage incoming line voltage but would not reduce the initial surge coming from the starting capacitor. I believe it’s that starting capacitor that generates the big jolt making the motor jump at startup. I could be totally wrong for sure as I’m over my head on this.



Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Mark Hofer
 

And to you as well Ed, so nice to hear from you!
Best,
M


On Dec 25, 2017, at 12:03 PM, Ed S eschwerkolt@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:


Merry Christmas Jim....  and to all!

Ed S


On 12/24/2017 10:50 AM, 'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years. 

It’s the reason I got into machining in the first place. 

We finally finished it, and its on the road. 

My greeting centers around it. 

 

Dashing through the snow [NOT!], 
In a 56 horse open coupe’, 
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way. 
Horns behind do blow, 
Some are mad, some gay, 
Oh what fun to ride and be, 
in a 52' MG TD.

 

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com



Re: Motor starting jolt

John Griffin
 

Induction motors designed to deliver big starting torque (eg, compressor duty) can give a jolt when hooked up to something like a table saw or a lathe

eg, "The 1 HP LEESON Compressor Duty Electric Motor is a dependable and powerful single-phase motor designed especially for compressors requiring high breakdown torque and rugged mechanical construction. UL listed. CSA certified." 

LEESON Compressor Duty Electric Motor — 1 HP, 115/230V, 3600 RPM, Model# 110160



The issue is high inrush current. If you wired in a particularly stiff (high current) 115 VAC circuit in your shop, this will amplify the issue. One remedy is to wire from the outlet to the motor using a wire size and length calculated by the motor full load running current (on motor tag). This will dampen start up jolt.

The above motor is FL rated at about 13A. Just for grins, splice in a 25' - 50' roll of 14 AWG between 115 VAC outlet and motor then test. This approach would be a lot cheaper than a solid state soft start

On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Oren obolt@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

I’m thinking a soft starter would manage incoming line voltage but would not reduce the initial surge coming from the starting capacitor. I believe it’s that starting capacitor that generates the big jolt making the motor jump at startup. I could be totally wrong for sure as I’m over my head on this.



Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Flash Gordon
 

Merry Christmas Jim....� and to all!

Ed S


On 12/24/2017 10:50 AM, 'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years.

It�s the reason I got into machining in the first place.

We finally finished it, and its on the road.

My greeting centers around it.

�

Dashing through the snow [NOT!],
In a 56 horse open coupe�,
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way.
Horns behind do blow,
Some are mad, some gay,
Oh what fun to ride and be,
in a 52' MG TD.

�

�


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Nelson Timken
 

Merry Xmas Jim, and fellow members.

Nelson Timken
(no affiliation)

On Sunday, December 24, 2017, 4:59:03 PM EST, 'Beeker, Daniel Edward' debeeker@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 

Hands down an MG TD has always been my favorite vehicle. If I only had one (big sigh goes here).  Nice Work! You have a right to be proud. Enjoy your holiday and don’t hesitate to show your MG off. You'll make someone’s day.


Dan

On Dec 24, 2017, at 3:23 PM, SOUTHBENDLATHE@... wrote:

4a.. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
   Posted by: "Jim B." Jim@... eeengineer1
   Date: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:48 am ((PST))

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years. 

It's the reason I got into machining in the first place. 

We finally finished it, and its on the road. 

My greeting centers around it. 



Dashing through the snow [NOT!], 
In a 56 horse open coupe', 
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way. 
Horns behind do blow, 
Some are mad, some gay, 
Oh what fun to ride and be, 
in a 52' MG TD.









Merry christmas to all andbest wishes for a most Happy and Healthy new Year..






Jim B. 



Re: One of the many little jobs.

Bill in OKC too
 

Jim, did you consider adding metal to replace some of that missing? Welding or brazing? I know if you welded it, you'd also have heat-treat it again, not sure if that would be necessary with brazing. It is neat as heck that you were able to keep the original parts and re-use them. Just wondering how you went about deciding how you were going to do the work? I've never tackled anything as complex as a complete car, and most of my knowledge of such things is strictly theoretical or book knowledge, not practical experience. One thing I've learned in my machining class is that book knowledge is useless without practical experience.

Bill in OKC



From: "'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: 'South Bend Lathe'
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 7:27 PM
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] One of the many little jobs.

 
I have tried to keep as many original parts as p[possible. Sometimes they need a little TLC
One such job was  a pair of shoulder bolts that hold the headlamp bracket between the wings(fenders) and the radiator.
 
That’s the black bolt on the upper right, just to the left of the radiator shell on the bracket extending through the shell. (The bracket is also shop made.)
 
The threads were buggered, bad.  Not getting a nut on that. It’s a 3/8-24 BSF Thread.  (Those are 55 Degree threads, not 60 degree.)
I decided to chase it on the lathe.
 
 
I held the hex in a six jaw on my 1934 SB-9” Workshop and indicated the shoulder to be sure its running true.
When centered and tightened I re-drilled the center and supported it with a center. I then machined
A relief for the threading tool, picked up the thread and recut it.  You can see that in the picture with the buggered threads.
That’s a shop made BSF 55 Degree tool. 55 degree=red.
 
This is the repaired screw. Good enough to use and although it did not save a ton of money, its what came with the car.
 
Just one of thousands of little jobs.  Not like GassMonky where things are replaced. If I could use it and or repair it it went back.
 
Jim B.
 

altVirus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Motor starting jolt

Nfwood
 

Why not put a VFD on a 220 VAC motor and program it for slow start?

Nelson Wood


-----Original Message-----
From: Oren obolt@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE
Sent: Sun, Dec 24, 2017 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Motor starting jolt

I’m thinking a soft starter would manage incoming line voltage but would not reduce the initial surge coming from the starting capacitor. I believe it’s that starting capacitor that generates the big jolt making the motor jump at startup. I could be totally wrong for sure as I’m over my head on this.




------------------------------------
Posted by: Oren <obolt@...>
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Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Nelson Collar
 

Roger
Merry Christmas and a Happy Healthy New Year
Nelson

On Sunday, December 24, 2017, 9:36:15 PM EST, 'R' roefa@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 

Well, after a long, long busy and tiring day, I came home and cranked up the Hammond Organ. I played a few songs,
and for some strange reason, it sounded remarkably better than usual... no idea why! Any guesses?
It has a spinning mechanical tone generator... lots'a lathe-made parts ! (Forum Content). LOL !

(Now, here's what I really wanted to say) ...

I'm wishing each of you and yours a very Blessed Christmas and a Healthy, Happy and Prosperous 2018!
alt
Roger Memphis
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" [SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Date: 12/24/2017 09:48 AM
To: "'South Bend Lathe'"
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

 

 

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years.

It’s the reason I got into machining in the first place.

We finally finished it, and its on the road.

My greeting centers around it.

 

Dashing through the snow [NOT!],
In a 56 horse open coupe’,
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way.
Horns behind do blow,
Some are mad, some gay,
Oh what fun to ride and be,
in a 52' MG TD.

 

 

 

Merry christmas to all andbest wishes for a most Happy and Healthy new Year.

 

 

Jim B.

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

 

 

Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

roefa.excite
 

Well, after a long, long busy and tiring day, I came home and cranked up the Hammond Organ. I played a few songs,
and for some strange reason, it sounded remarkably better than usual... no idea why! Any guesses?
It has a spinning mechanical tone generator... lots'a lathe-made parts ! (Forum Content). LOL !

(Now, here's what I really wanted to say) ...

I'm wishing each of you and yours a very Blessed Christmas and a Healthy, Happy and Prosperous 2018!

Roger Memphis
 

-----Original Message-----
From: "'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" [SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Date: 12/24/2017 09:48 AM
To: "'South Bend Lathe'"
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

 

 

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years.

It’s the reason I got into machining in the first place.

We finally finished it, and its on the road.

My greeting centers around it.

 

Dashing through the snow [NOT!],
In a 56 horse open coupe’,
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way.
Horns behind do blow,
Some are mad, some gay,
Oh what fun to ride and be,
in a 52' MG TD.

 

 

 

Merry christmas to all andbest wishes for a most Happy and Healthy new Year.

 

 

Jim B.

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

 

 

Re: One of the many little jobs.

Nelson Collar
 

Jim
That was a beautiful job on the bolt
Merry Christmas
Nelson


On Sunday, December 24, 2017, 8:27:21 PM EST, 'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 

I have tried to keep as many original parts as p[possible. Sometimes they need a little TLC

One such job was  a pair of shoulder bolts that hold the headlamp bracket between the wings(fenders) and the radiator.

 

That’s the black bolt on the upper right, just to the left of the radiator shell on the bracket extending through the shell. (The bracket is also shop made.)

 

The threads were buggered, bad.  Not getting a nut on that. It’s a 3/8-24 BSF Thread.  (Those are 55 Degree threads, not 60 degree.)

I decided to chase it on the lathe.

 

 

I held the hex in a six jaw on my 1934 SB-9” Workshop and indicated the shoulder to be sure its running true.

When centered and tightened I re-drilled the center and supported it with a center. I then machined

A relief for the threading tool, picked up the thread and recut it.  You can see that in the picture with the buggered threads.

That’s a shop made BSF 55 Degree tool. 55 degree=red.

 

This is the repaired screw. Good enough to use and although it did not save a ton of money, its what came with the car.

 

Just one of thousands of little jobs.  Not like GassMonky where things are replaced. If I could use it and or repair it it went back.

 

Jim B.

 


altVirus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Motor starting jolt

Gregg Eshelman
 

Motor soft starters. There's a YouTube video for that.



On Sunday, December 24, 2017, 7:03:45 PM MST, Stephen Bartlett tower.op@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


Another thought:  Make sure there is no lost motion in the drive train
-- all pulleys tight on their shafts, belt(s) properly tensioned, etc.

Anything that would let the motor get turning before the spindle starts
to turn.

Steve Bartlett

>
>    Posted by: "Oren" obolt@....com
>    Date: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:01 pm ((PST))
>
> I’m thinking a soft starter would manage incoming line voltage but would not reduce the initial surge coming from the starting capacitor. I believe it’s that starting capacitor that generates the big jolt making the motor jump at startup. I could be totally wrong for sure as I’m over my head on this.

Re: Motor starting jolt

Stephen Bartlett
 

Another thought: Make sure there is no lost motion in the drive train -- all pulleys tight on their shafts, belt(s) properly tensioned, etc.

Anything that would let the motor get turning before the spindle starts to turn.

Steve Bartlett

SOUTHBENDLATHE@... wrote:


Posted by: "Oren" obolt@....com
Date: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:01 pm ((PST))

I’m thinking a soft starter would manage incoming line voltage but would not reduce the initial surge coming from the starting capacitor. I believe it’s that starting capacitor that generates the big jolt making the motor jump at startup. I could be totally wrong for sure as I’m over my head on this.

One of the many little jobs.

Jim_B
 

I have tried to keep as many original parts as p[possible. Sometimes they need a little TLC

One such job was  a pair of shoulder bolts that hold the headlamp bracket between the wings(fenders) and the radiator.

 

That’s the black bolt on the upper right, just to the left of the radiator shell on the bracket extending through the shell. (The bracket is also shop made.)

 

The threads were buggered, bad.  Not getting a nut on that. It’s a 3/8-24 BSF Thread.  (Those are 55 Degree threads, not 60 degree.)

I decided to chase it on the lathe.

 

 

I held the hex in a six jaw on my 1934 SB-9” Workshop and indicated the shoulder to be sure its running true.

When centered and tightened I re-drilled the center and supported it with a center. I then machined

A relief for the threading tool, picked up the thread and recut it.  You can see that in the picture with the buggered threads.

That’s a shop made BSF 55 Degree tool. 55 degree=red.

 

This is the repaired screw. Good enough to use and although it did not save a ton of money, its what came with the car.

 

Just one of thousands of little jobs.  Not like GassMonky where things are replaced. If I could use it and or repair it it went back.

 

Jim B.

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Motor starting jolt

Oren
 

I’m thinking a soft starter would manage incoming line voltage but would not reduce the initial surge coming from the starting capacitor. I believe it’s that starting capacitor that generates the big jolt making the motor jump at startup. I could be totally wrong for sure as I’m over my head on this.

Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. [1 Attachment]

Bill in OKC too
 

And I'm wishing, once again, I still had the '63 Impala SS I bought in 1974. 

I keep checking, and the wrong hand is the one getting full...


On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Nelson Collar nel2lar@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
 
[Attachment(s) from Nelson Collar included below]

Yep! hindsight 20/20

On Sunday, December 24, 2017, 5:48:30 PM EST, Steven Schlegel sc.schlegel@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 

Very impressive AND my wife should not complain about how long my projects take!

 

I wish I still had that ’76 MG Midget that I purchase in college and sold shortly thereafter.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... on behalf of 'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 7:50:57 AM
To: 'South Bend Lathe'
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
 
 

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years.

It’s the reason I got into machining in the first place.

We finally finished it, and its on the road.

My greeting centers around it.

 

Dashing through the snow [NOT!],
In a 56 horse open coupe’,
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way.
Horns behind do blow,
Some are mad, some gay,
Oh what fun to ride and be,
in a 52' MG TD.

 

 

 

Merry christmas to all andbest wishes for a most Happy and Healthy new Year.

 

 

Jim B.

 


alt Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Nelson Collar
 

Yep! hindsight 20/20

On Sunday, December 24, 2017, 5:48:30 PM EST, Steven Schlegel sc.schlegel@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 

Very impressive AND my wife should not complain about how long my projects take!

 

I wish I still had that ’76 MG Midget that I purchase in college and sold shortly thereafter.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... on behalf of 'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 7:50:57 AM
To: 'South Bend Lathe'
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
 
 

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years.

It’s the reason I got into machining in the first place.

We finally finished it, and its on the road.

My greeting centers around it.

 

Dashing through the snow [NOT!],
In a 56 horse open coupe’,
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way.
Horns behind do blow,
Some are mad, some gay,
Oh what fun to ride and be,
in a 52' MG TD.

 

 

 

Merry christmas to all andbest wishes for a most Happy and Healthy new Year.

 

 

Jim B.

 


alt Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Steven Schlegel
 

Very impressive AND my wife should not complain about how long my projects take!

 

I wish I still had that ’76 MG Midget that I purchase in college and sold shortly thereafter.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... on behalf of 'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 7:50:57 AM
To: 'South Bend Lathe'
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
 
 

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years.

It’s the reason I got into machining in the first place.

We finally finished it, and its on the road.

My greeting centers around it.

 

Dashing through the snow [NOT!],
In a 56 horse open coupe’,
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way.
Horns behind do blow,
Some are mad, some gay,
Oh what fun to ride and be,
in a 52' MG TD.

 

 

 

Merry christmas to all andbest wishes for a most Happy and Healthy new Year.

 

 

Jim B.

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Dan Beeker
 

Hands down an MG TD has always been my favorite vehicle. If I only had one (big sigh goes here).  Nice Work! You have a right to be proud. Enjoy your holiday and don’t hesitate to show your MG off. You'll make someone’s day.

Dan

On Dec 24, 2017, at 3:23 PM, SOUTHBENDLATHE@... wrote:

4a. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
   Posted by: "Jim B." Jim@... eeengineer1
   Date: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:48 am ((PST))

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years. 

It's the reason I got into machining in the first place. 

We finally finished it, and its on the road. 

My greeting centers around it. 



Dashing through the snow [NOT!], 
In a 56 horse open coupe', 
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way. 
Horns behind do blow, 
Some are mad, some gay, 
Oh what fun to ride and be, 
in a 52' MG TD.









Merry christmas to all andbest wishes for a most Happy and Healthy new Year..






Jim B. 



Re: Motor starting jolt

Stephen Bartlett
 

Even worse is having one connection set for 120 volts and the other for 240. Instant motor death.

I once worked for GE in Lynn, Mass. We had several different voltages available, in the same locations.

We moved a simple, single phase IBM card sorting machine from one side of a room, on a 208 volt receptacle, and tied it to a 240 volt source on the other side of the room.

The motor immediately burned out.

It turned out that the motor's internal connections had been set up for 120 volt operation. The 208 volt source was actually down to about 200 volts and the motor was fine for years. Once it was hit with 240 it was gone.

Steve Bartlett

SOUTHBENDLATHE@... wrote:


Posted by: "Oren" obolt@...com
Date: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:41 am ((PST))

Thanks for the replies thus far. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s possible that I miswired the motor...it’s wired for 110 by me and I presumed I did it correctly and it’s definitely supplied with 110 as I wired the shop myself. Is it possible to miswire it and create a large startup jolt then have everything run fine after startup? When I first tested it unloaded on the bench after wiring it it jumped badly...I assumed that was because it had no load...now I’m wondering.

Re: Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. [1 Attachment]

Bill in OKC too
 

Freaking spell check. That was Oooooh! not Pool on!

On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 2:10 PM, 'wmrmeyers@...' wmrmeyers@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from wmrmeyers@... included below]

My wife said "Pool on! I want a ride in that before I die!


She's not been that impressed by anything I've ever done. :)

Bill in OKC


On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 9:48 AM, 'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
wrote:
 

As many know I have been rebuilding a MG for years.

It’s the reason I got into machining in the first place.

We finally finished it, and its on the road.

My greeting centers around it.

 

Dashing through the snow [NOT!],
In a 56 horse open coupe’,
Down the streets we go, Freezing all the way.
Horns behind do blow,
Some are mad, some gay,
Oh what fun to ride and be,
in a 52' MG TD.

 

 

 

Merry christmas to all andbest wishes for a most Happy and Healthy new Year.

 

 

Jim B.

 


altVirus-free. www.avast.com