Date   
Re: Stuck cartridge

Jay Tether <jy_tthr@...>
 

I try again, please remove me from the list.
Thank you, Jay


On Sunday, December 10, 2017 9:28 PM, "Phillip Rankin phillip.rankin1964@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:


 
been there done that. Have the tee shirt to prove it. it appears that the primer pocket has already been drilled. Tap the hole for what ever size will work for the hole that is drilled. Usually 1/4" x 20, or 5/16"  x 18. 5/16" x 18 has worked well for me. You can go up to 3/8" x 16 on magnum sized cartridges, but I wouldn't recommend it on cartridges with a base diameter of 0.47x" (270Win, 308Win, 30-06Sprig, etc). Find a set of washers, or make a sleeve that will fit over the cartridge and rest on the base of the sizing die. Make the depth deep enough so that the cartridge brass will have room to move. On the other end of the sleeve drill a free fitting hole for a bolt that will fit the threads in the cartridge primer pocket. Place the sleeve over the cartridge and rest it on the sizing die. Insert the bolt you have selected through the hole in the end of the sleeve, and thread it into the back of the cartridge. When the head of the bolt contacts the top of the sleeve use a wrench to tighten the bolt. As you tighten the bolt you should jack the cartridge out of the die. The brass is tapered so you will only need to move the cartridge a few thou to set it free. You could also stack washers up high enough to clear the end of the cartridge to do the same thing as a machined sleeve. 

Note: the brass will be I there pretty good. The reloading press forces the brass into the reloading die with thousands of pounds of force, and if an insufficient amount of sizing lube is not used  this is the end result.

Another thought. On the other end of the die there should be a rod (sometimes threaded sometimes held in place by a collet & nut system). Back this out as far as you can before trying to remove the stuck cartridge.use a bolt just long enough to fully engage all of the threads in the primer pocket.

Phillip R.




Re: South Bend

Stuart <stu482002@...>
 

Hello again Eddie,

I was fooled by the "Golden Valley" address. I have friends who live in the Golden Valley between Hereford and Hay-on-Wye. I did wonder about the railway but those things can be there for ever and I still don't see them.

I've taken another look at the lathe in the Men's Shed and talked to the man who brought it in - it was his father's I think - and found it's a Drummond lathe not a South Bend. They are quite similar to look at. It was the headstock that fooled me, it looks as if the Drummond and the South Bend may share ancestry, the back-gear seems very similarly engaged, and the belt drive pulleys are the same.

The site lathes.co.uk has Drummond lathes and mentions South Bend but only in respect of a shared design error in one of the models. It seems Drummond is an ancestor of Myford lathes. Drummond Lathes Home Page


I'm not sure which Drummond ours is but I'm sure I'll learn in time. Meanwhile I've a lot of work to do to get it properly serviceable. I've worked out how to engage the back gear - the previous owner was impressed as he hadn't known it had back gear. I have to make a suitable fitting so that the change-wheel arrangement can be fitted and made to work. There seem to be a lot of parts missing - so the previous owner is going to search his garage.

I shall stay subbed to the South Bend list because I read some great tips here on how to use the lathe and maintain it, stuff that's really applicable to any lathe. Thank you to all who contribute information, as a newcomer to engineering I'm finding it all very interesting and useful.

Stuart


On Sunday, 3 December 2017, 20:03, Edward Draper


Hi again Stuart,

I'm afraid Hereford is nearer to you than it is to us!   Hereford is near Butterley like Arizona is near New York (state or city!) in that they're both in the same country.

For detailed instructions on SB lathes, see the files section.  If your lathe has a plain bearing headstock, it is absolutely vital that from time to time it is stripped and the felt or wick feeds examined and replaced as necessary.

Cheers,

Eddie



From: Stuart
To: Edward Draper
Sent: Sunday, 3 December 2017, 15:45
Subject: Re: South Bend

Hello Eddie,

You're near to friends of mine near Hereford, I think.

I'm not well versed in engineering, I've come to it quite recently. Carpentry and woodworking have been more of my thing in the past.

Thanks for the oils advice, I've printed it out for reference.

Stuart


On Friday, 1 December 2017, 20:47, Edward Draper wrote:


Hi Stuart,

A large proportion of the South Bend lathe group members are in the USA, which is only logical, but it does mean that you'll need to become fairly fluent in American.  I'm starting to get the hang of it.  I can't recomend the SBL group highly enough.  Very well regulated and a bunch of decent people.

My connection?  I'm CME of the Golden Valley Light Railway, the 2' gauge line at Midland Railway Butterley.  We were given a very nice 14.5" x 6' toolroom lathe made in 1943, but refurbished by Sentinel art Shrewsbury in 1961, since when, I doubt if it did a right lot of work.  I recently discovered a smaller SB in another workshop at Swanwick Junction, a 9 or 10", and I intend to get the S/N & cat no. off that soon and subject it to the dating spreadsheet on the site and identify it properly.  The files section is a wonderful resource. 

Don't be too bamboozled by the arguments on lubrication.  I use 3 oils.  An ISO 22 viscosity spindle oil for the headstock bearings (just look up lubricant suppliers in your area on Yell.com, buy a gallon, and hide it so it doesn't get used for other purposes), ISO 32 hydraulic oil for the few odd places with a wick feed (nick 5 gallons from any passing track machine), and ISO 220 steam loco motion oil for the rest, although in the depths of winter, the bed ways get the 32 to make it easier to move the saddle.  Being a steam loco man, you should be able to sort out cleaning out & adjusting the headstock bearings easily.  There is no task more critical.


What I do for a living?  I'm a consultant engineer with Ricardo Rail, a recent takeover from Lloyd's Register Rail.  I specialise in mechanical power equipment for trains, but I have a sideline as a signatory for main line steam locos.

Back in BR days I used to have a distant colleague at the Gwili railway, name of John Towers.  If he's still around, please remember me to him.

Regards,

Eddie






Re: Stuck cartridge

fjijxcauiakbcooeym2pqtc2ukjom7gapvhjycsz@...
 

Use a small pin punch to tap that little depression in the center of the bottom......

NOT!

Re: Attaching A Face Plate

Stephen Bartlett
 

Closing out this subject, the face plate fits. It was just snugging up on the spindle for the last 3/16 inch of travel.

Thanks again,

Steve Bartlett

Re: Stuck cartridge

Phillip Rankin
 

been there done that. Have the tee shirt to prove it. it appears that the primer pocket has already been drilled. Tap the hole for what ever size will work for the hole that is drilled. Usually 1/4" x 20, or 5/16"  x 18. 5/16" x 18 has worked well for me. You can go up to 3/8" x 16 on magnum sized cartridges, but I wouldn't recommend it on cartridges with a base diameter of 0.47x" (270Win, 308Win, 30-06Sprig, etc). Find a set of washers, or make a sleeve that will fit over the cartridge and rest on the base of the sizing die. Make the depth deep enough so that the cartridge brass will have room to move. On the other end of the sleeve drill a free fitting hole for a bolt that will fit the threads in the cartridge primer pocket. Place the sleeve over the cartridge and rest it on the sizing die. Insert the bolt you have selected through the hole in the end of the sleeve, and thread it into the back of the cartridge. When the head of the bolt contacts the top of the sleeve use a wrench to tighten the bolt. As you tighten the bolt you should jack the cartridge out of the die. The brass is tapered so you will only need to move the cartridge a few thou to set it free. You could also stack washers up high enough to clear the end of the cartridge to do the same thing as a machined sleeve. 

Note: the brass will be I there pretty good. The reloading press forces the brass into the reloading die with thousands of pounds of force, and if an insufficient amount of sizing lube is not used  this is the end result.

Another thought. On the other end of the die there should be a rod (sometimes threaded sometimes held in place by a collet & nut system). Back this out as far as you can before trying to remove the stuck cartridge.use a bolt just long enough to fully engage all of the threads in the primer pocket.

Phillip R.


Re: Stuck cartridge

Gary Runyon
 

RCBS makes a stuck case remover.

On Dec 10, 2017 6:18 PM, "'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

 

Try putting it in the freezer for an hour.

The Brass has a larger coefficient of expansion than the steel; and it may shrink enough to loosen if its not galled up badly

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:44 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Stuck cartridge [2 Attachments]

 

 

[Attachment(s) from don_mavi@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] included below]

A friend brought over a rifle reloading die that has a stuck cartridge in it. I've been unable to remove it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thx

Don

 

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Stuck cartridge

Steven Schlegel
 

RCBS sells a kit with a drill, tap, and "socket" and screw to do just that. The tap fits in the primer cup to get several threads of bit, if I remember correctly. It works like a charm, and yes, use more lube to prevent reoccurrence.

Steven


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... on behalf of George Meinschein george.meinschein@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 4:38:13 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Stuck cartridge
 
 

Don,
Typical approach is drill, tap, and pull the cartridge out by screwing in a bolt with a stack of shims. 

Thanks,
George H. Meinschein, P.E.

Meinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC
150 Brittany Drive
Freehold, NJ 07728-1500
Email: george.meinschein@...
Direct Dial: 732-409-0778
Cell: 732-580-1736
Fax: 732-358-0369
www.meinscheinengineering.com

On Dec 10, 2017 7:10 PM, "don_mavi@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from don_mavi@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] included below]

A friend brought over a rifle reloading die that has a stuck cartridge in it. I've been unable to remove it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thx

Don



Re: Stuck cartridge [2 Attachments]

George Meinschein <george.meinschein@...>
 

Don,
Typical approach is drill, tap, and pull the cartridge out by screwing in a bolt with a stack of shims. 

Thanks,
George H. Meinschein, P.E.

Meinschein Engineering Consultants, LLC
150 Brittany Drive
Freehold, NJ 07728-1500
Email: george.meinschein@...
Direct Dial: 732-409-0778
Cell: 732-580-1736
Fax: 732-358-0369
www.meinscheinengineering.com

On Dec 10, 2017 7:10 PM, "don_mavi@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from don_mavi@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] included below]

A friend brought over a rifle reloading die that has a stuck cartridge in it. I've been unable to remove it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thx

Don



Re: Stuck cartridge [2 Attachments]

Jim_B
 

 

Try putting it in the freezer for an hour.

The Brass has a larger coefficient of expansion than the steel; and it may shrink enough to loosen if its not galled up badly

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 5:44 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Stuck cartridge [2 Attachments]

 

 

[Attachment(s) from don_mavi@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] included below]

A friend brought over a rifle reloading die that has a stuck cartridge in it. I've been unable to remove it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thx

Don

 

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Stuck cartridge

Jasper McConnell
 

Tap the brass cartridge (Usually 1/4 ") and you can use a socket for a bridge over the cartridge base  and bolt with a washer  to pull it out like using a pulley puller. Tell you friend to use a little more lube when he resizes. ;)

Stuck cartridge

don_mavi@...
 

A friend brought over a rifle reloading die that has a stuck cartridge in it. I've been unable to remove it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thx

Don



Re: face plate

Guenther Paul
 

I would chuck up the faceplate indicate it then use a boring bar pick up the thread and recut it. Remove the chuck and try the thread on the spindle 1 1/2" taps are hard to find and besides why by one, it can all be done on your lathe.
 
GP



From: "kernbigo@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:15 AM
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] face plate

 
If you have access to a 1 1/2" 8 tap try running the tap through, i had this problem once with a chuck that did not fit


face plate

oscar kern
 

If you have access to a 1 1/2" 8 tap try running the tap through, i had this problem once with a chuck that did not fit

Re: Attaching A Face Plate

Stephen Bartlett
 

Thank you to everyone for the replies.

One thing I had not thought of is that the unthreaded back of the face plate hub may be smaller diameter than the register on the spindle (and I learned a new name for a spindle part).

Another is that the face plate may not be made by South Bend and even then may not have been made for my lathe. I seem to think that I did not buy it with my lathe.

My lathe Unit Code No. B 100 NK
Serial No A 9775NCR10

The face plate bears the number B 100 N. This is different from the face plate numbers in my South Bend Catalog.

First priority is some measuring.

Steve Bartlett

Re: Attaching A Face Plate

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

How's about measuring the register bore in the plate, o/d of the mandrel and the length of same on both before starting to hack metal off blindly?

Eddie



From: "Guenther Paul paulguenter@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: "SOUTHBENDLATHE@..."
Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017, 19:24
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Attaching A Face Plate

 
Yes use a 4 jaw indicate the bore and create more relief so the plate goes on all the way. you can test it by removing the 4 jaw with the plate still in it.After you get the plate to go on all the way remove it from the chuck face the plate and true cut the OD of the plate. I would not play around on a mill 
 
GP



From: "Nelson Collar nel2lar@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: "kernbigo@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Attaching A Face Plate

 
If the metal is cut away on the mill you will have a better chance to true it up by mounting the face of the face plate and it can be cut accurately and measured. If done on the lathe there is always a chance it is not on straight. After cutting use bluing to check for high spots and hand scrape them until parallel. I have tried to adjust an old chuck mounting plate just to make it worse.   
Nelson

On Thursday, December 7, 2017, 9:40:36 AM EST, kernbigo@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 
why use a mill put the face plate on back wards bore out a few threads, reverse it and if it goes on all the way , now face cut it and it should work fine 




Re: Attaching A Face Plate

Guenther Paul
 

Yes use a 4 jaw indicate the bore and create more relief so the plate goes on all the way. you can test it by removing the 4 jaw with the plate still in it.After you get the plate to go on all the way remove it from the chuck face the plate and true cut the OD of the plate. I would not play around on a mill 
 
GP



From: "Nelson Collar nel2lar@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: "kernbigo@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2017 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Attaching A Face Plate

 
If the metal is cut away on the mill you will have a better chance to true it up by mounting the face of the face plate and it can be cut accurately and measured. If done on the lathe there is always a chance it is not on straight. After cutting use bluing to check for high spots and hand scrape them until parallel. I have tried to adjust an old chuck mounting plate just to make it worse.   
Nelson

On Thursday, December 7, 2017, 9:40:36 AM EST, kernbigo@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 
why use a mill put the face plate on back wards bore out a few threads, reverse it and if it goes on all the way , now face cut it and it should work fine 


Re: Attaching A Face Plate

Nelson Collar
 

If the metal is cut away on the mill you will have a better chance to true it up by mounting the face of the face plate and it can be cut accurately and measured. If done on the lathe there is always a chance it is not on straight. After cutting use bluing to check for high spots and hand scrape them until parallel. I have tried to adjust an old chuck mounting plate just to make it worse.   
Nelson

On Thursday, December 7, 2017, 9:40:36 AM EST, kernbigo@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


 

why use a mill put the face plate on back wards bore out a few threads, reverse it and if it goes on all the way , now face cut it and it should work fine 

Re: Attaching A Face Plate

Jim_B
 

But it could be tight on the registration bore. 
Need to see what is tight first. 

-8
Jim B,

On Dec 7, 2017, at 9:40 AM, kernbigo@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

why use a mill put the face plate on back wards bore out a few threads, reverse it and if it goes on all the way , now face cut it and it should work fine 

Re: Attaching A Face Plate

oscar kern
 

why use a mill put the face plate on back wards bore out a few threads, reverse it and if it goes on all the way , now face cut it and it should work fine 

Re: Attaching A Face Plate

Jim_B
 

There are two or three lines of thought here. 
One says butting against the step is what aligns the faceplate/Chuck. Another says it’s the unthreaded section on the spindle just before the step. But for this you need a tight fit on the registration diameter. 
If you do not but up to the step, even if the plate runs true, you take the chance that the plate will move      or even get stuck. 
If you use a ring it should have parallel faces. 
Better to find out what is tight. 
Try using Prussian Blue to sort out what is tight. 


-8
Jim B,

On Dec 6, 2017, at 10:04 PM, Stephen Bartlett tower.op@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

I am looking at a boring job using the face plate that came with my 9C.
I have not had occasion to use this face plate before.

When I screw the plate onto the spindle, it runs out of thread leaving
about 1/8 inch gap between the back of the face plate hub and the step
face of the spindle, so only the threads are stopping the screwing of
the face plate on the spindle.

Would it be advisable to have a shim between the face plate hub and the
spindle face so that the face plate will be seated before it runs out of
thread?

I am uncomfortable with the idea of having the end of threads stop the
motion of the face plate.

Thanks,

Steve Bartlett