Date   

Re: 13” Southbend Lathe Model No.

Steve Wells
 

Ted, 
I don't remember seeing a serial number from the late 1940's for a D1-3., but it was an option. The later 14VS and the 1307 had them, I believe.
Steve


On Oct 29, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Latheman latheman2@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Steve,
 Are you sure about that info ????  
I'm not sure. I have had at least 2 machines (13" and a Heavy 10) with the CLC catalog number and neither one had a D1-4.    Both had 2 speed motors....
????
Ted



Very nice looking machine, could you post your serial number please.
The CLC is part of the catalog number, identifying the spindle nose. 
CLC = D1-4 Cam Lock spindle.
 
Steve
-- 
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Re: 13” Southbend Lathe Model No.

Steve Wells
 

Ted,
Most all CLC serial numbers I've seen have D1-4's, but I can't say for sure that after stamping that was the spindle shipped or remained in the lathe. CB was also D1-4, CLK was the long taper and I've seen CLO or(0) listed, but I think that might be a mis read CLC. I'm not sure of the later lathes that had the D1-3 option.
I finished your dial this evening, mailing in the AM.
Steve
Ps, I'm kinda liking the chemical process of making the black oxide thumb screws, very interesting to watch them turn black and then seal up with oil.



On Oct 29, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Latheman latheman2@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Steve,
 Are you sure about that info ????  
I'm not sure. I have had at least 2 machines (13" and a Heavy 10) with the CLC catalog number and neither one had a D1-4.    Both had 2 speed motors....
????
Ted



Very nice looking machine, could you post your serial number please.
The CLC is part of the catalog number, identifying the spindle nose. 
CLC = D1-4 Cam Lock spindle.
 
Steve
-- 
Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOUTHBENDLATHE/
More pix:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/
Newbie guide: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/ Files area
FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOUTHBENDLATHE/files/

Then go to  the file SouthBendLatheFAQ-4.html
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Re: 13” Southbend Lathe Model No.

comstock_friend
 

My 13" s_n 6715TKX13, CLC145B, 6-25-1958 has a D1-4 spindle.

John


Re: 13” Southbend Lathe Model No.

sblatheman
 

Steve,
 Are you sure about that info ????  
I'm not sure. I have had at least 2 machines (13" and a Heavy 10) with the CLC catalog number and neither one had a D1-4.    Both had 2 speed motors....
????
Ted



Very nice looking machine, could you post your serial number please.
The CLC is part of the catalog number, identifying the spindle nose. 
CLC = D1-4 Cam Lock spindle.
 
Steve
-- 
Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOUTHBENDLATHE/
More pix:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/
Newbie guide: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/ Files area
FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOUTHBENDLATHE/files/

Then go to  the file SouthBendLatheFAQ-4.html
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Re: Telescopic follow rest project

carbure2003
 

The issue about tghe positioning is what I try to solve.

This prototype would be good for right hand threading. If I can offset the unit slightly to the right, then by positioning the tool post slightly to the left or right would accomodate both options, without rotating the QCTP.
guy

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "'Jim B. ' Jim@btdtrf.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
To: <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Telescopic follow rest project
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:36:39 -0400



Very Nice Guy.

I have often thought about where the follower should go.
Several years ago I was making a long Square Cut 4 tpi LH lead screw for a shaper.
The issue was that, in feeding Left to Right, the rest would be best put just in front, to the right of, of the tool. If behind the tool it rides on the swarf thrown up by the tool.

Perhaps there should be a choice of positions. Say the part that bolts to the saddle is staggered and the rest could be attached to a center block from either side.

However if feeding right to left,&#65533; the rest should be to the left of the tool.
I did turn the QCTP to better utilize the “Standard” SP follower rest position.

I have always found Knurling to be sort of an Art.
A year of two ago I wanted to try to duplicate a DUNLOP tire valve remover. The original had a straight fine knurl but at a slight angle.
I made a holder &#65533;for a single knurl, to fit the QCTP, but tilted at the correct angle.
Sometimes I got the correct knurl, sometimes it was &#65533; the desired TPI sometimes it was twice the desired TPI. I just had no consistency.
The picture shows a small ball bearing tailstock live center I made.



Jim B.

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 11:56 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Telescopic follow rest project


Here is an update on how it looks like with all components manufactured

I made jaws with ball bearing as contact surface. I might try to build a new version that will offset to the right by 1/2”

Knurling is a bitch to do when you have cheap knurls. I spent one evening trying various setups with my QCTP PHASE II knurl holder. I wanted coarse knurl on the knobs. I finally gave up and installed Armstrong knurling wheels on the holder. It made a difference, knurls being near reading the inside of the jaws was easier than I thought. I oversized the bore to 5/16” and my boring/threading bar could go through it.

One weld left to do.... the spacer that offsets the follow rest from the saddle.

I would not spend a fortune for the original unit on ebay. Nice project for rainy days.

Guy Cadrin

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "'guycad@netzero.com' guycad@netzero.net [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
To: southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Telescopic follow rest project [1 Attachment]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:52:58 GMT

I am in the process of building a new follow rest for one of my SB lathes.
The frame was cut on CNC plasma cutter and then assembled by welding to the jaw cylinders.
The main difference to the original is that it fits on the left side of the saddle, better location when using a QCTP (see attached picture)

I am in the process of manufacturing the remainder of the components. The differential screw uses a very odd thread: 3/8 - 10 LH. I never found a tap for this thread. Did somebody ever find one?
I am about to try to do single point threading for the internal thread on the jaws but it would be easier with a tap. One option I have is to make my own tap for the final passes.
The screw itself was not a big challenge after grinding the tool bit. (Tool bit put upside down on the tool post with the lathe turning reverse, steel rod held in collet)

The easy solution would be to buy new jaws, but it cuts the fun of home shop machining.

So far, it is a nice and fun project. (At this point, I could use my original follow rest jaws). A few years ago I made a 10K folow rest drawing That I posted in the file section of this group. I used the same drawing as baseline. The only difference is that there is no bend in order to offset the jaws in the middle of the cross slide.

Once the design is to my satisfaction, I will manufacture one for my atlas lathe as well.

Guy Cadrin

__________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Eye Bags & Lip Lines in Seconds
Fit Mom Daily
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/59ea9a72970f81a722bdest02vuc

------------------------------------

------------------------------------

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Then go to the file SouthBendLatheFAQ-4.html
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Re: Telescopic follow rest project

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Just a thought on whether the travelling steady should roll before or after the cut, consider this:  A roller box on a mass production lathe (e.g. a capstan) has the rollers very close behind the cutting edge. In fact as close as possible.  For those not familiar with production machinery, a roller box is a hollow rigid tool holder, which typically incorporates a "knife" tool incorporating rollers positioned just as they would be on a separate travelling steady.  A typical use for a roller box is cutting hexagon bar at one pass to follow up with a diehead to make a bolt.  They generally operate flooded with coolant, and swarf doesn't seem to be a problem, espcially if it is long.  The roller box contains adequate passages for the escape of swarf (and coolant).  Absolutely monstrous depths of cut & feed rates are feasible when compared with a centre lathe running dry.

Where further cutting is not required, the rollers provide an improved surface finish on many materials.

Eddie


From: "'Jim B. ' Jim@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Sent: Sunday, 29 October 2017, 18:34
Subject: RE: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Telescopic follow rest project

 
Very Nice Guy.
 
I have often thought about where the follower should go.
Several years ago I was making a long Square Cut 4 tpi LH lead screw for a shaper.
The issue was that, in feeding Left to Right, the rest would be best put just in front, to the right of, of the tool. If behind the tool it rides on the swarf thrown up by the tool.
 
Perhaps there should be a choice of positions. Say the part that bolts to the saddle is staggered and the rest could be attached to a center block from either side.
 
However if feeding right to left,  the rest should be to the left of the tool.
I did turn the QCTP to better utilize the “Standard” SP follower rest position.
 
I have always found Knurling to be sort of an Art.
A year of two ago I wanted to try to duplicate a DUNLOP tire valve remover. The original had a straight fine knurl but at a slight angle.
I made a holder  for a single knurl, to fit the QCTP, but tilted at the correct angle.
Sometimes I got the correct knurl, sometimes it was ½ the desired TPI sometimes it was twice the desired TPI. I just had no consistency.
The picture shows a small ball bearing tailstock live center I made.
 
 
 
Jim B.
 
From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 11:56 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Telescopic follow rest project
 
 
Here is an update on how it looks like with all components manufactured

I made jaws with ball bearing as contact surface. I might try to build a new version that will offset to the right by 1/2”

Knurling is a bitch to do when you have cheap knurls. I spent one evening trying various setups with my QCTP PHASE II knurl holder. I wanted coarse knurl on the knobs. I finally gave up and installed Armstrong knurling wheels on the holder. It made a difference, knurls being near reading the inside of the jaws was easier than I thought. I oversized the bore to 5/16” and my boring/threading bar could go through it.

One weld left to do.... the spacer that offsets the follow rest from the saddle.

I would not spend a fortune for the original unit on ebay. Nice project for rainy days.

Guy Cadrin

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "'guycad@...' guycad@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...>
To: southbendlathe@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Telescopic follow rest project [1 Attachment]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:52:58 GMT

I am in the process of building a new follow rest for one of my SB lathes.
The frame was cut on CNC plasma cutter and then assembled by welding to the jaw cylinders.
The main difference to the original is that it fits on the left side of the saddle, better location when using a QCTP (see attached picture)

I am in the process of manufacturing the remainder of the components. The differential screw uses a very odd thread: 3/8 - 10 LH. I never found a tap for this thread. Did somebody ever find one?
I am about to try to do single point threading for the internal thread on the jaws but it would be easier with a tap. One option I have is to make my own tap for the final passes.
The screw itself was not a big challenge after grinding the tool bit. (Tool bit put upside down on the tool post with the lathe turning reverse, steel rod held in collet)

The easy solution would be to buy new jaws, but it cuts the fun of home shop machining.

So far, it is a nice and fun project. (At this point, I could use my original follow rest jaws). A few years ago I made a 10K folow rest drawing That I posted in the file section of this group. I used the same drawing as baseline. The only difference is that there is no bend in order to offset the jaws in the middle of the cross slide.

Once the design is to my satisfaction, I will manufacture one for my atlas lathe as well.

Guy Cadrin

__________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Eye Bags & Lip Lines in Seconds
Fit Mom Daily
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/59ea9a72970f81a722bdest02vuc

------------------------------------

------------------------------------

--
Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOUTHBENDLATHE/
More pix: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/
Newbie guide: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/ Files area
FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOUTHBENDLATHE/files/

Then go to the file SouthBendLatheFAQ-4.html
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The Unusual Link Between Alzheimer's and Coconut Oil (Watch)
Memory Repair Protocol
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Re: Telescopic follow rest project

Jim_B
 

Very Nice Guy.

 

I have often thought about where the follower should go.

Several years ago I was making a long Square Cut 4 tpi LH lead screw for a shaper.

The issue was that, in feeding Left to Right, the rest would be best put just in front, to the right of, of the tool. If behind the tool it rides on the swarf thrown up by the tool.

 

Perhaps there should be a choice of positions. Say the part that bolts to the saddle is staggered and the rest could be attached to a center block from either side.

 

However if feeding right to left,  the rest should be to the left of the tool.

I did turn the QCTP to better utilize the “Standard” SP follower rest position.

 

I have always found Knurling to be sort of an Art.

A year of two ago I wanted to try to duplicate a DUNLOP tire valve remover. The original had a straight fine knurl but at a slight angle.

I made a holder  for a single knurl, to fit the QCTP, but tilted at the correct angle.

Sometimes I got the correct knurl, sometimes it was ½ the desired TPI sometimes it was twice the desired TPI. I just had no consistency.

The picture shows a small ball bearing tailstock live center I made.

 

 

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 11:56 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Telescopic follow rest project

 

 

Here is an update on how it looks like with all components manufactured

I made jaws with ball bearing as contact surface. I might try to build a new version that will offset to the right by 1/2”

Knurling is a bitch to do when you have cheap knurls. I spent one evening trying various setups with my QCTP PHASE II knurl holder. I wanted coarse knurl on the knobs. I finally gave up and installed Armstrong knurling wheels on the holder. It made a difference, knurls being near reading the inside of the jaws was easier than I thought. I oversized the bore to 5/16” and my boring/threading bar could go through it.

One weld left to do.... the spacer that offsets the follow rest from the saddle.

I would not spend a fortune for the original unit on ebay. Nice project for rainy days.

Guy Cadrin

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "'guycad@...' guycad@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...>
To: southbendlathe@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Telescopic follow rest project [1 Attachment]
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2017 00:52:58 GMT

I am in the process of building a new follow rest for one of my SB lathes.
The frame was cut on CNC plasma cutter and then assembled by welding to the jaw cylinders.
The main difference to the original is that it fits on the left side of the saddle, better location when using a QCTP (see attached picture)

I am in the process of manufacturing the remainder of the components. The differential screw uses a very odd thread: 3/8 - 10 LH. I never found a tap for this thread. Did somebody ever find one?
I am about to try to do single point threading for the internal thread on the jaws but it would be easier with a tap. One option I have is to make my own tap for the final passes.
The screw itself was not a big challenge after grinding the tool bit. (Tool bit put upside down on the tool post with the lathe turning reverse, steel rod held in collet)

The easy solution would be to buy new jaws, but it cuts the fun of home shop machining.

So far, it is a nice and fun project. (At this point, I could use my original follow rest jaws). A few years ago I made a 10K folow rest drawing That I posted in the file section of this group. I used the same drawing as baseline. The only difference is that there is no bend in order to offset the jaws in the middle of the cross slide.

Once the design is to my satisfaction, I will manufacture one for my atlas lathe as well.

Guy Cadrin

__________________________________________________________
1 Simple Trick Removes Eye Bags & Lip Lines in Seconds
Fit Mom Daily
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/59ea9a72970f81a722bdest02vuc

------------------------------------

------------------------------------

--
Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOUTHBENDLATHE/
More pix: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/
Newbie guide: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/ Files area
FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SOUTHBENDLATHE/files/

Then go to the file SouthBendLatheFAQ-4.html
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Stop delivery: SOUTHBENDLATHE-nomail@...
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Re: 13” Southbend Lathe Model No.

David Boyd
 

Thanks Steve!
My serial number is 12929TKX.  It was shipped on March 25, 1969.
Enjoying this machine - big step up from a mini-lathe. 

On Sunday, October 29, 2017, 12:00 PM, 'Steve Wells' wswells@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

 



David,
Very nice looking machine, could you post your serial number please.
The CLC is part of the catalog number, identifying the spindle nose. 
CLC = D1-4 Cam Lock spindle.
 
Steve
 


Re: 13” Southbend Lathe Model No. [1 Attachment]

Steve Wells
 


David,
Very nice looking machine, could you post your serial number please.
The CLC is part of the catalog number, identifying the spindle nose. 
CLC = D1-4 Cam Lock spindle.
 
Steve
 


Re: Telescopic follow rest project [1 Attachment]

carbure2003
 


13” Southbend Lathe Model No.

David Boyd
 


I am a newbie and just finished disassembling and cleaning my 13” lathe.  I was researching info on it and have a question for the experts.  My model no. is CLC145B, what does the second “C” stand for?  l do not see any catalog with that model number.





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


Re: Spindle lock

Rangelov
 

Phillip,

I think I can follow the
directions.  I will try this when I am at my lathe (I
have been 2000 miles away from home).  Thanks for the write-up.

Dimitar (14.5 SBL).

________________________________________________
2f. Re: Changing broken back gears on
a
South Bend 9 Lathe
    Posted by: "phillip" pepolk@hotmail.com
pepolk
    Date: Wed Oct 25, 2017
2:07 pm ((PDT))

I took a piece of steel flat stock
approx. 1� X 1/8� and cut a piece
1 �� long and
formed a �V� in one end, and then
welded it on the flat
stock from which it had been cut. This
gave me a bar with a
reversed arrow head welded to it, so
when the strap was
inserted down through the gap between
the release pin on the
headstock bull gear and the gear
cover, it came to rest on
the headstock casting with the arrow
head shaped piece of
steel acting like a �Shuffleboard
stick� surrounding the
release pin. The whole thing has to be
thin enough to be
installable and removable with no
effort. When the cuck,
faceplate or whatever is rotated
counterclockwise the lock
pin body will center into this �V�
and with its base
against the headstock casting almost
at the top, rotation is
stopped and then can be unscrewed and
the tool removed and
hung back on the wall till it is
needed again. The �V�
is parallel to the strap facing back
up the handle, like a
big barb on a frog gig or a pike or
spear.  If
thickness were not such an issue , I
would have cut the
notch  and just using heat folded
itself back over
itself, but that was more
blacksmithing than I wanted to do
as the fold would have had to have
been no thicker than
��l

-------------------------------
From: Rangelov rangelov@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017
10:11
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re:
Changing
broken back gears on a South Bend 9
Lathe

Phillip,
Sounds like a great idea. I don't
recall that it was discussed
previously.

Would you explain how you made a
release pin lock? And how it is used.
Which would eliminate
the backgear stress and subsequent
breakage?

I don't recall this being discussed
on
the list.

Thanks, Dimitar

-------------------------------------------
__________________________
1h. Re: Changing broken back gears on
a
South Bend 9 Lathe
Posted by: "phillip" pepolk@hotmail.com
pepolk
Date: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:02 pm
((PDT))

<snip>.... I made a tool to
lock
the release pin on my headstock to the
headstock casting and
not risk damaging my back gears ever
again.


Re: back gear

don
 

Hi,
Yes most MMAW (stick) rods for use with "cast iron" welding are predominately nickel. That's why they are so expensive.

As for brazing cast iron almost all the major welding consumable suppliers have a suitable bronze or nickel bronze rod available together with the required flux. Nickel bronze rod is harder and wears a lot better under arduous conditions.... years ago I used to rebuild race car gears with nickel bronze and they lasted about the same time as the originals, which was a real bonus considering the cost of replacements.
I think you will find that a lot of vintage car etc enthusiasts also rebuild all sorts of gears using oxy acetylene torches and nickel bronze rods.
But: if you are going to weld or braze cast iron it must be clean, really clean!
In my experience as passed on to me by expert welders the best way is to boil the part in a caustic soda solution to remove all traces of oil and other rubbish, dry off and start welding.
Grease, oil etc is your enemy when welding or brazing any thing.

Cheers,
Don.


Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Boris Gaspar
 

That looks like a successful result Mario.

Thanks for showing the photos.


Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

phillip <pepolk@...>
 

I took a piece of steel flat stock approx. 1” X 1/8” and cut a piece 1 ½” long and formed a “V” in one end, and then welded it on the flat stock from which it had been cut. This gave me a bar with a reversed arrow head welded to it, so when the strap was inserted down through the gap between the release pin on the headstock bull gear and the gear cover, it came to rest on the headstock casting with the arrow head shaped piece of steel acting like a “Shuffleboard stick” surrounding the release pin. The whole thing has to be thin enough to be installable and removable with no effort. When the cuck, faceplate or whatever is rotated counterclockwise the lock pin body will center into this “V” and with its base against the headstock casting almost at the top, rotation is stopped and then can be unscrewed and the tool removed and hung back on the wall till it is needed again. The “V” is parallel to the strap facing back up the handle, like a big barb on a frog gig or a pike or spear.  If thickness were not such an issue , I would have cut the notch  and just using heat folded itself back over itself, but that was more blacksmithing than I wanted to do as the fold would have had to have been no thicker than ¼”

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Rangelov rangelov@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:11 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

 

 

Phillip,
Sounds like a great idea. I don't recall that it was discussed previously.

Would you explain how you made a release pin lock? And how it is used. Which would eliminate the backgear stress and subsequent breakage?

I don't recall this being discussed on the list.

Thanks, Dimitar
-------------------------------------------
__________________________
1h. Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe
Posted by: "phillip" pepolk@... pepolk
Date: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:02 pm ((PDT))

.... I made a tool to lock the release pin on my headstock to the headstock casting and not risk damaging my back gears ever again.

 


Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Mario Firmino
 

Hi Steven,

During my heavy ten restoration I've got two broken theet back gear.
I did tig weld with nickel and milled the excess material.
During the assembly I did the fine adjustment filing the theet.
See the photos...
Good luck!!
Mario


Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Rangelov
 

Phillip,
Sounds like a great idea. I don't recall that it was discussed previously.

Would you explain how you made a release pin lock? And how it is used. Which would eliminate the backgear stress and subsequent breakage?

I don't recall this being discussed on the list.

Thanks, Dimitar
-------------------------------------------
__________________________
1h. Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe
Posted by: "phillip" pepolk@hotmail.com pepolk
Date: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:02 pm ((PDT))

<snip>.... I made a tool to lock the release pin on my headstock to the headstock casting and not risk damaging my back gears ever again.


Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Jim_B
 

Here are two methods that should work

 

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 7:16 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

 

 

Has any one come up with a way to lock the spindle on a 9A without engaging the back gears? I am always careful when changing chucks etc., but it seems there is always the possibility of back gear damage. Thanks, John.


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Re: Digest Number 8757

locopepe41
 

I have a workshop 9C made, I believe. in 1939. When I acquired this lathe it was a basket case with several missing or broken parts. Among the broken parts was the lever that moves the motor back(this a floor model) and three teeth broken off the small gear on the back gear. As I was a machine builder I had access to a tig welder which  I have used to weld cast iron on many occasions. I realize this conflicts with common methods but it works for me.
I try to get the base material as clean as possible and chamfer the area I am welding. I soak the material with lacquer thinner then blow out the area with compressed air. I use 304 or 316 stainless steel rod. My method is to melt the filler rod (I use 1/16 of an inch) into the base metal. When doing this I try to not overheat the base metal to prevent mini explosions. Once a base of stainless is laid down you can weld as usual still trying not to overheat. Let it cool naturally or by compressed air but never water.
The repairs I made on this lathe were over 20 years ago and still working well. This South Bend material welded better than any cast iron I have ever welded. The gear teeth are , naturally, a different and noticeable  material but the functionality is unaffected. The tension lever is painted and the weld there is undetectable. 
Joseph Walker

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 9:01 PM, "SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


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12 Messages
Digest #8757 1a Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe by "Steven Schlegel" sc.schlegel 1b Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe by "Edward Draper" eddie.draper@btinternet.com 1c Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe by "Al Knack" ww_big_al 1d Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe by "oscar kern" kernbigo 1e Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe by robert9382 1f Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe by "phillip" pepolk 1g Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe by "Edward Draper" eddie.draper@btinternet.com 1h Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe by "phillip" pepolk 2a back gear by kernbigo 2b Re: back gear by "Jim B." eeengineer1 2c Re: back gear by "Guenther Paul" paulguenter@att.net 2d Re: back gear by "Gregg Eshelman" g_alan_e
Messages

1a

Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:39 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Steven Schlegel" sc.schlegel
9" Model A, 12-Speed, Horizontal Motor Drive (HMD) bench lathe

Catalog No. 644A

Serial No. 4818NAR8

Built: 1947
One of the teeth on the small back gear of a lathe I am rejuvenating is broken (totally broken off). Can I buy another back gear unit on eBay to replace it, or is there a problem directly exchanging the back gear from one South Bend 9 Lathe with another? My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. My searches have not turned up an answer.

Thank you,
Steven

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1b

Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:25 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Edward Draper" eddie.draper@btinternet.com
Comiserations, Steven.
It is exceedingly doubtful whether the back gear sets were selectively asembled into matching sets, since they didn't need to be as far as I can see, so a s/h intact set from a lathe of the same model should be fine.  What the various interchangabilities are between the various different types of 9" is another matter which I will leave for others.
Various repair methods for cast iron gear teeth exist.  I recently read a book on cast iron welding, which suggested that you first thread some short steel (of a weldable grade) studs into the place where the tooth was, and then build up with a "suitable" filler before machining or hand finishing to profile (method to be selected based upon the level of precision required and achievable in individual cases).  What constitutes suitable will depend upon whether welding by gas or electric.  I have achieved many successful welds in cast iron using pure nickel electrodes and stick welding.  The secret with electric welding of cast iron is that there are 2 opposing methods.  Either you need to drink lots of tea or you have time to drink lots of tea. 

I explain.  In method 1, you raise the temperature of the whole object to red heat, and maintain it there throughout the process, welding fairly normally, and allowing to cool evenly and slowly.  In method 2 you do the job cold, or with only minor preheat of the whole to about 100C, weld for no more than 3 seconds at a stretch, imediately peen the weld surface with the chipping hammer and allow the temperature of the whole to nearly equalise before the next 3 second burst.

Alternatively, you could gas deposit a pile of braze into place, and this would probably be easiest and adequate for the duty.  Again, heat & cool evenly and cool slowly.
Test the finished job by tapping lightly with a hammer and listening for any change of tone.

Whatever method is used, avoid using this tooth as the one which takes load during the unscrewing of chucks etc!
Eddie

From: "Steven Schlegel sc.schlegel@hotmail.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2017, 12:39
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

  9" Model A, 12-Speed, Horizontal Motor Drive (HMD) bench latheCatalog No.  644A    Serial No.  4818NAR8Built: 1947One of the teeth on the small back gear of a lathe I am rejuvenating is broken (totally broken off).  Can I buy another back gear unit on eBay to replace it, or is there a problem directly exchanging the back gear from one South Bend 9 Lathe with another?  My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.  My searches have not turned up an answer.   Thank you,Steven   Sent from Mail for Windows 10   #yiv4355297698 #yiv4355297698 -- #yiv4355297698ygrp- mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv435529769 8 #yiv4355297698ygrp- mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv435529 7698 #yiv4355297698ygrp- mkp #yiv4355297698hd {color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:700; line-height: 122%;margin: 10px 0;}#yiv4355297698 #yiv4355297698ygrp- mkp #yiv4355297698ads {margin-bottom: 10px;}#yiv435529 7698 #yiv4355297698ygrp- mkp .yiv4355297698ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv4355297698 #yiv4355297698ygrp- mkp .yiv4355297698ad p {margin:0;}# yiv4355297698 #yiv4355297698ygrp- mkp .yiv4355297698ad a {color:#0000ff; 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1c

Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:32 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Al Knack" ww_big_al
On my 9A (1957) the BG also had broken teeth. I got another set from eBay and it fitted up with no problems.

Al

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 3:05 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

9" Model A, 12-Speed, Horizontal Motor Drive (HMD) bench lathe

Catalog No. 644A

Serial No. 4818NAR8

Built: 1947

One of the teeth on the small back gear of a lathe I am rejuvenating is broken (totally broken off). Can I buy another back gear unit on eBay to replace it, or is there a problem directly exchanging the back gear from one South Bend 9 Lathe with another? My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. My searches have not turned up an answer.

Thank you,

Steven

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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1d

Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:06 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"oscar kern" kernbigo
weld i t in and file it to fit

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 7:32 AM, "'Al Knack' arknack@comcast.net [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  On my 9A (1957) the BG also had broken teeth. I got another set from eBay and it fitted up with no problems.Al  From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 3:05 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe    9" Model A, 12-Speed, Horizontal Motor Drive (HMD) bench latheCatalog No.  644A    Serial No.  4818NAR8Built: 1947One of the teeth on the small back gear of a lathe I am rejuvenating is broken (totally broken off).  Can I buy another back gear unit on eBay to replace it, or is there a problem directly exchanging the back gear from one South Bend 9 Lathe with another?  My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.  My searches have not turned up an answer. Thank you,Steven Sent from Mail for Windows 10  #yiv8942066543 #yiv8942066543 -- #yiv8942066543ygrp- mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv894206654 3 #yiv8942066543ygrp- mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv894206 6543 #yiv8942066543ygrp- mkp #yiv8942066543hd {color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:700; line-height: 122%;margin: 10px 0;}#yiv8942066543 #yiv8942066543ygrp- mkp #yiv8942066543ads {margin-bottom: 10px;}#yiv894206 6543 #yiv8942066543ygrp- mkp .yiv8942066543ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv8942066543 #yiv8942066543ygrp- mkp .yiv8942066543ad p {margin:0;}# yiv8942066543 #yiv8942066543ygrp- mkp .yiv8942066543ad a {color:#0000ff; 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Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:06 am (PDT) . Posted by:

robert9382
When i bought one of my 9A lathes ,the small gear part was missing several teeth ,due to southbend stuff being hard to find in the UK, i just bought a repair piece off ebay and only took an hour to fit ,it was extremely simply to do.
You just turn off the small gear and fit the piece which i glued on with high strength retainer whilst the gear was in mesh on the headstock. I think i may have pinned it as well just to be sure. Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (8) . Top ^
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Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:56 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"phillip" pepolk
If you do your homework (research) This gear can be machined down to avail a sleeve of cast iron that will support a gear (Boston gear) with an interferance fit of .007" . I run my 9 workshop every day and I repaired the back gear with this method. I cannot avail the gear number, but it is still available as a stock item, and it can be bored to afford the needed interferance fit of .007" after the other gear has been machined off the dual gear of the back gear. After machining , it can be cold pressed onto the other gear assy and it will work forever till abused again.

________________________________
From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Steven Schlegel sc.schlegel@hotmail.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 7:04 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

9" Model A, 12-Speed, Horizontal Motor Drive (HMD) bench lathe

Catalog No. 644A

Serial No. 4818NAR8

Built: 1947
One of the teeth on the small back gear of a lathe I am rejuvenating is broken (totally broken off). Can I buy another back gear unit on eBay to replace it, or is there a problem directly exchanging the back gear from one South Bend 9 Lathe with another? My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. My searches have not turned up an answer.

Thank you,
Steven

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:25 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"Edward Draper" eddie.draper@btinternet.com
Philip,
Roughly what diameter is the hole you make in the new gear?  0.007" sounds an awfully large amount of interference, especially if the new gear is C/I, and you propose to fit by pressing.
Eddie

From: "phillip pepolk@hotmail.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
To: "SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2017, 20:56
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

  If you do your homework (research) This gear can be machined down to avail a sleeve of cast iron that will support a gear  (Boston gear) with an interferance fit of .007" . I run my 9 workshop every day and I repaired the back gear with this method. I cannot avail the gear number, but it is still available as a stock item, and it can be bored to afford the needed interferance fit of .007" after the other gear has been machined off the dual gear of the back gear. After machining , it can be cold pressed onto the other gear assy and it will work forever till abused again. 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Steven Schlegel sc.schlegel@hotmail.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 7:04 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe  9" Model A, 12-Speed, Horizontal Motor Drive (HMD) bench latheCatalog No.  644A    Serial No.  4818NAR8Built: 1947One of the teeth on the small back gear of a lathe I am rejuvenating is broken (totally broken off).  Can I buy another back gear unit on eBay to replace it, or is there a problem directly exchanging the back gear from one South Bend 9 Lathe with another?  My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.  My searches have not turned up an answer. Thank you,Steven Sent from Mail for Windows 10  #yiv2641646698 #yiv2641646698 -- #yiv2641646698ygrp- mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv264164669 8 #yiv2641646698ygrp- mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv264164 6698 #yiv2641646698ygrp- mkp #yiv2641646698hd {color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:700; line-height: 122%;margin: 10px 0;}#yiv2641646698 #yiv2641646698ygrp- mkp #yiv2641646698ads {margin-bottom: 10px;}#yiv264164 6698 #yiv2641646698ygrp- mkp .yiv2641646698ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv2641646698 #yiv2641646698ygrp- mkp .yiv2641646698ad p {margin:0;}# yiv2641646698 #yiv2641646698ygrp- mkp .yiv2641646698ad a {color:#0000ff; 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}#yiv2641646698 .yiv2641646698attac h {clear:both; display:table; font-family: Arial;font- size:12px; padding:10px 0;width:400px; }#yiv2641646698 .yiv2641646698attac h div a {text-decoration: none;}#yiv264164 6698 .yiv2641646698attac h img {border:none; padding-right: 5px;}#yiv2641646 698 .yiv2641646698attac h label {display:block; margin-bottom: 5px;}#yiv2641646 698 .yiv2641646698attac h label a {text-decoration: none;}#yiv264164 6698 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv2641646698 .yiv2641646698bold {font-family: Arial;font- size:13px; font-weight: 700;}#yiv2641646 698 .yiv2641646698bold a {text-decoration: none;}#yiv264164 6698 dd.yiv2641646698las t p a {font-family: Verdana;font- weight:700; }#yiv2641646698 dd.yiv2641646698las t p span {margin-right: 10px;font- family:Verdana; font-weight: 700;}#yiv2641646 698 dd.yiv2641646698las t p span.yiv2641646698y shortcuts {margin-right: 0;}#yiv264164669 8 div.yiv2641646698at tach-table div div a {text-decoration: none;}#yiv264164 6698 div.yiv2641646698at tach-table {width:400px; 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Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:02 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"phillip" pepolk
Thats three and a half thousanths on each side , it worked for me , there is a possiblility that my surfaces were not as smooth as some would make it, if you screw it up , use an epoxy and rely on a surface contact of the adhesive. I wish I had the number of the boston gear , but I did this several years ago and right after that I made a tool to lock the release pin on my headstock to the headstock casting and not risk damaging my back gears ever again.

________________________________
From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Edward Draper eddie.draper@btinternet.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 8:11 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

Philip,

Roughly what diameter is the hole you make in the new gear? 0.007" sounds an awfully large amount of interference, especially if the new gear is C/I, and you propose to fit by pressing.

Eddie

________________________________
From: "phillip pepolk@hotmail.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
To: "SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2017, 20:56
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

If you do your homework (research) This gear can be machined down to avail a sleeve of cast iron that will support a gear (Boston gear) with an interferance fit of .007" . I run my 9 workshop every day and I repaired the back gear with this method. I cannot avail the gear number, but it is still available as a stock item, and it can be bored to afford the needed interferance fit of .007" after the other gear has been machined off the dual gear of the back gear. After machining , it can be cold pressed onto the other gear assy and it will work forever till abused again.

________________________________
From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Steven Schlegel sc.schlegel@hotmail.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 7:04 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

9" Model A, 12-Speed, Horizontal Motor Drive (HMD) bench lathe
Catalog No. 644A
Serial No. 4818NAR8
Built: 1947
One of the teeth on the small back gear of a lathe I am rejuvenating is broken (totally broken off). Can I buy another back gear unit on eBay to replace it, or is there a problem directly exchanging the back gear from one South Bend 9 Lathe with another? My apologies if this has been answered elsewhere. My searches have not turned up an answer.

Thank you,
Steven

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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2a

back gear

Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:05 am (PDT) . Posted by:

kernbigo
weld it or have it welded and file it back in to match the rest of the teeth
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2b

Re: back gear

Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:30 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Jim B." eeengineer1
Terminology may be an issue.

Welding Cast Iron is an Art. Please avoid it.

Brazing CI is relatively easy and safe.

First:

Clean off the broken gear root. Degrease very, very well. Then drill and tap for screws that will be covered by the braze. The screws are important.

Insert screws so they are just below the tips of the remaining gears.

Then fill the area with Low temperature brass braze or (What I use) Silver Braze. Then, as noted file back to match the gear profile.

When I got my Heavy 10 one of the gears in the train between the spindle had been heavily repaired. It broke again. There were several teeth in a row missing that had been put back but without the supporting screws.

The gear that replaced it had the screws and has been there 11 years now.

CI is very brittle and sensitive to temperature differences. Welding requires preheating to at least 400F, 600, is better. Then welding with special nickel red. (That stuff cost and arm and a leg). Then a very very very slow cool, preferably with intermittent pounding with a ball peen to remove stress. The weld metal is stronger than the cast and can cause a crack from the internal strains.

Braze is Soft and yields during cooling. I have brazed successfully many times. No luck with welding although others have.

On the issue of replacement gear assemblies on eBay. While the gears are the same and the spacing between the gears is the same, there are at least two different length assemblies.

I believe the long one is for the earlier series top oiler lathes and the shorter one is for the later side oiler lathes.

Don’t expect the seller to know which.

You could measure yours and compare.

If you get the wrong one, you can machine off the long one and male a spacer for the short one depending on your needs.

Finally some have repaired gears by using the drill and tap and insert screws method, but instead of brazing, they use metal filled epoxy.

You can use another gear, coated with release, and inserted around the broken tooth, to form the gear tooth profile. This seems to work well.

Jim B.

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 10:06 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] back gear

weld it or have it welded and file it back in to match the rest of the teeth


Re: Changing broken back gears on a South Bend 9 Lathe

John Gallo
 

Has any one come up with a way to lock the spindle on a 9A without engaging the back gears? I am always careful when changing chucks etc., but it seems there is always the possibility of back gear damage. Thanks, John.

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