Date   

Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

Mark Hofer
 

ridges down against the pulley


On Aug 23, 2016, at 3:06 PM, john kling jkling222@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:


On serpentine type belts do the ridge go up or down? On automotive applications the pullies has ridges and the ridges on the belt mesh with those on they pully.


On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 11:50 AM, "Lance Eggleston gbof@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:


 
Does the belt slip under stress of a normal cut?
If no, it’s OK.

I usually have about 1/2” deflection at the center of the top run.

lance
++++
On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Tom Harrold tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

Also, how much deflection should there be in the belt typically?  I have it set for about 1" of deflection at the center.

Tom






Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

john kling
 

On serpentine type belts do the ridge go up or down? On automotive applications the pullies has ridges and the ridges on the belt mesh with those on they pully.


On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 11:50 AM, "Lance Eggleston gbof@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:


 
Does the belt slip under stress of a normal cut?
If no, it’s OK.

I usually have about 1/2” deflection at the center of the top run.

lance
++++
On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Tom Harrold tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

Also, how much deflection should there be in the belt typically?  I have it set for about 1" of deflection at the center.

Tom




Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

Tom Harrold
 

This belt is synthetic.  Very thin, actually.  Alligator pins/clips holding it together.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, 9:39 AM, 'Jim B. ' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

 

It has not been mentioned lately. 
The smooth side of the belt, the side where the hair of the cow was, goes against the pulley. 

Jim B,

On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Tom Harrold tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Also, how much deflection should there be in the belt typically?  I have it set for about 1" of deflection at the center.


Tom


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Monday, August 22, 2016, 10:47 PM, Lance Eggleston gbof@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 


On Aug 22, 2016, at 3:16 PM, tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:



I finally have my lathe back together, and the new belts are on.   I have a few questions:


1) belt seems to find center on the outer two steps of the spindle step pulley, but not the center step. Belt falls off (to the left) of the center step on the spindle pulley.  Is this an alignment issue?  horizontal drive shaft not parallel to the spindle pulley?   Is there a good technique to correct?


 The pulleys should have a slight crown on them. Use a straight edge to test.
If that’s OK, then use the straight edge to check alignment.
Check the new belt to be sure they are aligned correctly.
I had one that was off by 1-2 mm and that made a diff.

2) I connected gears (per figure 4 on the SBL gear chart) just to test out the carriage movement, etc.  The gears make a bit of noise - more so than just having the reversing gears alone connected.  (those are almost silent).  Raises a question about how tight the gears should be to each other  Should there be a gap, or should the gears be as close to each other as possible?  I used "C" oil on the gears for lube.  I know that's a big debate, but pretty sure SBL had recommended C oil, so I'm OK with that for now.


Place a piece of paper between the gears as you set them.
Check for swarf.


Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

Tom Harrold
 

Belt was slipping when I turned on the motor.  Increasing belt tension seems to have helped.  Along with some minor adjustments to the horizontal drive shaft.

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, 10:50 AM, Lance Eggleston gbof@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

 

Does the belt slip under stress of a normal cut?

If no, it’s OK.

I usually have about 1/2” deflection at the center of the top run.

lance
++++
On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Tom Harrold tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

Also, how much deflection should there be in the belt typically?  I have it set for about 1" of deflection at the center.


Tom


Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

lance
 

Does the belt slip under stress of a normal cut?
If no, it’s OK.

I usually have about 1/2” deflection at the center of the top run.

lance
++++

On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Tom Harrold tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

Also, how much deflection should there be in the belt typically?  I have it set for about 1" of deflection at the center.


Tom


Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

It has not been mentioned lately. 
The smooth side of the belt, the side where the hair of the cow was, goes against the pulley. 

Jim B,

On Aug 23, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Tom Harrold tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Also, how much deflection should there be in the belt typically?  I have it set for about 1" of deflection at the center.


Tom


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Monday, August 22, 2016, 10:47 PM, Lance Eggleston gbof@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 


On Aug 22, 2016, at 3:16 PM, tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:



I finally have my lathe back together, and the new belts are on.   I have a few questions:


1) belt seems to find center on the outer two steps of the spindle step pulley, but not the center step. Belt falls off (to the left) of the center step on the spindle pulley.  Is this an alignment issue?  horizontal drive shaft not parallel to the spindle pulley?   Is there a good technique to correct?


 The pulleys should have a slight crown on them. Use a straight edge to test.
If that’s OK, then use the straight edge to check alignment.
Check the new belt to be sure they are aligned correctly.
I had one that was off by 1-2 mm and that made a diff.

2) I connected gears (per figure 4 on the SBL gear chart) just to test out the carriage movement, etc.  The gears make a bit of noise - more so than just having the reversing gears alone connected.  (those are almost silent).  Raises a question about how tight the gears should be to each other  Should there be a gap, or should the gears be as close to each other as possible?  I used "C" oil on the gears for lube.  I know that's a big debate, but pretty sure SBL had recommended C oil, so I'm OK with that for now.


Place a piece of paper between the gears as you set them.
Check for swarf.


Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

Tom Harrold
 

Also, how much deflection should there be in the belt typically?  I have it set for about 1" of deflection at the center.

On Monday, August 22, 2016, 10:47 PM, Lance Eggleston gbof@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

 


On Aug 22, 2016, at 3:16 PM, tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:



I finally have my lathe back together, and the new belts are on.   I have a few questions:


1) belt seems to find center on the outer two steps of the spindle step pulley, but not the center step. Belt falls off (to the left) of the center step on the spindle pulley.  Is this an alignment issue?  horizontal drive shaft not parallel to the spindle pulley?   Is there a good technique to correct?


 The pulleys should have a slight crown on them. Use a straight edge to test.
If that’s OK, then use the straight edge to check alignment.
Check the new belt to be sure they are aligned correctly.
I had one that was off by 1-2 mm and that made a diff.

2) I connected gears (per figure 4 on the SBL gear chart) just to test out the carriage movement, etc.  The gears make a bit of noise - more so than just having the reversing gears alone connected.  (those are almost silent).  Raises a question about how tight the gears should be to each other  Should there be a gap, or should the gears be as close to each other as possible?  I used "C" oil on the gears for lube.  I know that's a big debate, but pretty sure SBL had recommended C oil, so I'm OK with that for now.


Place a piece of paper between the gears as you set them.
Check for swarf.


Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

lance
 


On Aug 22, 2016, at 3:16 PM, tharrold115@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:



I finally have my lathe back together, and the new belts are on.   I have a few questions:


1) belt seems to find center on the outer two steps of the spindle step pulley, but not the center step. Belt falls off (to the left) of the center step on the spindle pulley.  Is this an alignment issue?  horizontal drive shaft not parallel to the spindle pulley?   Is there a good technique to correct?


 The pulleys should have a slight crown on them. Use a straight edge to test.
If that’s OK, then use the straight edge to check alignment.
Check the new belt to be sure they are aligned correctly.
I had one that was off by 1-2 mm and that made a diff.

2) I connected gears (per figure 4 on the SBL gear chart) just to test out the carriage movement, etc.  The gears make a bit of noise - more so than just having the reversing gears alone connected.  (those are almost silent).  Raises a question about how tight the gears should be to each other  Should there be a gap, or should the gears be as close to each other as possible?  I used "C" oil on the gears for lube.  I know that's a big debate, but pretty sure SBL had recommended C oil, so I'm OK with that for now.


Place a piece of paper between the gears as you set them.
Check for swarf.


Re: Gear noise and belt alignment.

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

 

The play in the gears can lead to excess noise.

Both too much and too little.

I cut strips of computer paper (0.004”) and insert them between the gears when meshing them. (It’s a bit too much but convenient. (Machinist used to use  the cellophane off cigarette packs.

I don’t smoke)

Close the gears down tight on the paper and this should help.

 

FWIW I use Red Line MT-90 synthetic Manual transmission gear oil. It quiets them down a lot.

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 3:16 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Gear noise and belt alighnment.

 

 

I finally have my lathe back together, and the new belts are on.   I have a few questions:

 

1) belt seems to find center on the outer two steps of the spindle step pulley, but not the center step. Belt falls off (to the left) of the center step on the spindle pulley.  Is this an alignment issue?  horizontal drive shaft not parallel to the spindle pulley?   Is there a good technique to correct?

 

2) I connected gears (per figure 4 on the SBL gear chart) just to test out the carriage movement, etc.  The gears make a bit of noise - more so than just having the reversing gears alone connected.  (those are almost silent).  Raises a question about how tight the gears should be to each other  Should there be a gap, or should the gears be as close to each other as possible?  I used "C" oil on the gears for lube.  I know that's a big debate, but pretty sure SBL had recommended C oil, so I'm OK with that for now.

 

 

 

 




Re: Gear noise and belt alighnment.

William R Meyers <wmrmeyers@...>
 

Normal practice on geared machinery is to use a piece of (usually cigarette) paper to set the gap between gears. Typing paper or a page from a phone book will work, but cigarette paper is normally .001 inch thick. The phone book chunks we're using in my machine shop class is .002 inches. Put a piece of paper between the gears, adjust so it's held tightly in place, and then roll it out of the gears. Then lube appropriately.

HTH!

Bill in OKC
William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

Guard your women and children well,
Send These Bastards Back to Hell
We'll teach them the ways of war,
They Won't Come Here Any More
Use your shield and use your head,
Fight till Every One is Dead
Raise the flag up to the sky,
How Many of Them Can We Make Die!

Heather Alexander, March of Cambredth

--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/22/16, tharrold115@yahoo.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Gear noise and belt alighnment.
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 22, 2016, 2:16 PM


 









I finally have my lathe
back together, and the new belts are on.   I have a few
questions:
1) belt seems to
find center on the outer two steps of the spindle step
pulley, but not the center step. Belt falls off (to the
left) of the center step on the spindle pulley.  Is this an
alignment issue?  horizontal drive shaft not parallel to
the spindle pulley?   Is there a good technique to
correct?
2) I connected gears
(per figure 4 on the SBL gear chart) just to test out the
carriage movement, etc.  The gears make a bit of noise -
more so than just having the reversing gears alone
connected.  (those are almost silent).  Raises a question
about how tight the gears should be to each other  Should
there be a gap, or should the gears be as close to each
other as possible?  I used "C" oil on the gears
for lube.  I know that's a big debate, but pretty sure
SBL had recommended C oil, so I'm OK with that for
now.













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Gear noise and belt alighnment.

Tom Harrold
 

I finally have my lathe back together, and the new belts are on.   I have a few questions:


1) belt seems to find center on the outer two steps of the spindle step pulley, but not the center step. Belt falls off (to the left) of the center step on the spindle pulley.  Is this an alignment issue?  horizontal drive shaft not parallel to the spindle pulley?   Is there a good technique to correct?


2) I connected gears (per figure 4 on the SBL gear chart) just to test out the carriage movement, etc.  The gears make a bit of noise - more so than just having the reversing gears alone connected.  (those are almost silent).  Raises a question about how tight the gears should be to each other  Should there be a gap, or should the gears be as close to each other as possible?  I used "C" oil on the gears for lube.  I know that's a big debate, but pretty sure SBL had recommended C oil, so I'm OK with that for now.






Re: 1973 Heavy 10 tail stock question

James Durante
 

Thanks.  I've purchased a SB tailstock for it and just need to shim it up.  The Clausing 4900 tailstock is for sale.


Re: Grounding, furnas switch

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

I would just add that if your ancient terminal box on the motor is not actually part of the motor, i.e. cast or welded to it, but bolted or riveted on, then you should earth the motor as well.
 
From what I understand, USA wiring regs are designed more around preventing fires as the domestic voltage is 110V, with commensurately high currents, whereas in Europe, single phase domestic is 230V and the corresponding 3 phase is 410, so the regs are more about preventing electrocution.
 
Do you have earth leakage circuit breakers on distribution boards or consumer units feeding sockets in the US?  They're mandatory in the UK.  These trip when as little as 10mA ends up going to earth, and I believe they work just by comparing outgoing and returning current on the live & neutral.
 
What tends to happen when a row of houses is built, is that each in turn is fed from a different phase, so by co-operation with the neighbours, you can cobble up 3 phase, but don't try to parallel it!
 
Eddie



From: "gwj@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Sent: Tuesday, 16 August 2016, 6:41
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Grounding, furnas switch

 
Regardless of age, ALL motors must be properly grounded for the safety reasons previously stated. A very old one may not have a designed-in ground screw. In that case, you may add one in a sensible location at the terminal box. Alternatively, you can run a bonding conductor to the frame of the motor and connect that directly to another properly-grounded item such as a switch box. 

Modern safety standards are written in blood. Grounding is really simple to do and there is no reason to skimp in this area. "If there's power running to it or through it, ground it."

Gary NA6O
(Retired EE)



Re: Grounding, furnas switch

Jefferson Tomlinson
 

I recommend that any other electrical equipment you use around any equipment that has a safety ground on it that all other  eletrical equipment including lights small electric power tools unless double insulated be grounded. I have magnetfied florescent light I use around my 3in1 and I have grounded it for safety reasons. I also leaned the importance of grounding everything when I had a ametuer radio license. His just a little food for thought.

Jeff Tomlinson


On Monday, August 15, 2016, gwj@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

Regardless of age, ALL motors must be properly grounded for the safety reasons previously stated. A very old one may not have a designed-in ground screw. In that case, you may add one in a sensible location at the terminal box. Alternatively, you can run a bonding conductor to the frame of the motor and connect that directly to another properly-grounded item such as a switch box. 


Modern safety standards are written in blood. Grounding is really simple to do and there is no reason to skimp in this area. "If there's power running to it or through it, ground it."

Gary NA6O
(Retired EE)


Re: Grounding, furnas switch

Gary Johnson
 

Regardless of age, ALL motors must be properly grounded for the safety reasons previously stated. A very old one may not have a designed-in ground screw. In that case, you may add one in a sensible location at the terminal box. Alternatively, you can run a bonding conductor to the frame of the motor and connect that directly to another properly-grounded item such as a switch box. 

Modern safety standards are written in blood. Grounding is really simple to do and there is no reason to skimp in this area. "If there's power running to it or through it, ground it."

Gary NA6O
(Retired EE)


Re: Grounding, furnas switch

john kling
 

Question: The early motors that came with the lathe did not use 2 prong plugs. Indeed the ads show them connected to overhead light sockets. Any opinopns on grounding these motors?


Re: Grounding, furnas switch

DJ Delorie
 

If the switch has a metal housing and is grounded and connected to
the lathe, doesn't that make the lathe itself grounded also?
Like I said, don't rely on your lathe to be a wire. "Happens to be
connected to ground" is not the same as "grounded".

Every electrical part of your lathe - switches, metal electrical
boxes, motors - should have a ground wire of suitable gauge connecting
it to earth ground through the power cord's ground wire (which is
"grounded" via suitable buried copper conductors, eventually).

If other metal parts happen to connect to these grounded electrical
components, that's only "happens to be connected to ground". Rust and
paint are pretty good insulators.

If you decide you want to ground your lathe, you'd connect a suitable
wire to the lathe itself, and connect that to earth ground somehow.

Note that code does NOT allow multiple earth grounds in one building.


Re: Grounding, furnas switch

ww_big_al
 

Myself, I grounded mine. It’s not hard. If you look on the back of your furnace switch, depending when it was built, there might be a thread hole doing nothing. If so, use a machine screw and bond you green wire there. If there isn’t just drill a small hole for a 10-32 or 8-32 and use a nut and bolt to tie it down. Your motor should have a 3 conductor wire going to it. If the motor doesn’t have a dedicated bonding screw spot, common practice is to use the cover plate screw. Not ideal but functional. The other end of the motor cord should then be tied to the same grounding screw in the furnas switch. There is no need to bond the lathe since there isn’t any other source of electrical shorting device on it.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 2:38 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Grounding, furnas switch

 

 

So, I have wired up my 9" model C, just waiting for a flat belt.  At some point a previous owned had used a 3-prong plug, and it raised the question:  how are you grounding your lathes?

 

I can try to fasten the ground wire to the furnas switch, or I can just leave it unused. 

 

Wondering how good of a ground it would be, since the motor is separated from the lathe (I have a horizontal drive system).

 

Anyone else find a way to deal with ground? Or just run it like it was run back in 1954?

 

-Tom


Re: Grounding, furnas switch

Tom Harrold
 

 I guess I'm curious as to what most people have done.  Clearly the US electrical standards have changed since the mid-1900's, and we've added ground wires to our outlets.  Now I have a 1954 lathe, which probably never came with a 3-prong plug, and I have the ability to "improve" safety...just wondering what others have done.

My setup has the 3-wire power cord coming into my (metal) furnas switch. (forward reverse switch).  The ground wire is not connected to anything.  I could certainly wire it to the furnas switch box, but wondering if there's a better option. (like extending it to the motor, etc)

-Tom


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On Monday, August 15, 2016 2:36 PM, "johnnyblock1@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:


 
If the switch has a metal housing and is grounded and connected to the lathe, doesn't that make the lathe itself grounded also?



Re: Grounding, furnas switch

John Gallo
 

If the switch has a metal housing and is grounded and connected to the lathe, doesn't that make the lathe itself grounded also?

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