Date   

Re: lathe dating

tom@...
 

Jim and the group here is what my lathe looks like.

-Tom
 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Jim B.' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 12:13 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: RE: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] lathe dating

 

 

What Grizzly told you is generally correct. However in your case I think they are wrong.

 

I do not believe the “N” is part of the serial number.

There would have been 3 or 4 letters after the serial number on a late lathe. Something like NKK

Discounting the letter N your lathe was shipped 3/27/1926.

 

Now the significance of the Letter N would be to designate a Light 10” lathe. Part of the Workshop lathe family.

These lathes had a narrower bed than the series “O” lathes you mentioned. Thus the Headstock, saddle and tailstock from a Series “O” lathe would not fit on a Light 10, or 10K lathe.

A Picture would be nice for the benefit of the members.

 

Serial numbers for the older lathes succeeded by the letter N may be that this signifies an “N” series lathe.

Allan could help us out here as there is a difference between the “O”  and the “N” aprons. I believe (but I am not sure) that the “O” series is open and the “N” series is double walled. I also find the Catalog 33 lathe listed as both Series 0’s and N’s.

 

When it comes to the letter series lathes I don’t believe Grizzly is that cognoscente.

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 2:41 PM
To: southbendlathe@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] lathe dating

 

 

 

Hello, I have recently acquired my fist lathe a South Bend 11", O series (cat. 33-B). I am trying to determine it's age based upon the serial number stamped on the end of the lathe near the tailstock.
That number is 32675N and from I have been able to come up with it appears this lathe is from around 1926. The people at South Bend are saying it was made around 1953 from the card I ordered for it.  This is their response to me:  The earliest records show that lathes were numbered sequentially, beginning with 700, in July, 1910 and ending with 186,514 in March 1947. After March, 1947 a new Serial Number system that included letters at the end of serial numbers was enacted. This allowed the user or parts technician to determine the order the machine was manufactured in relation to its size and some of the specs of the machine- without having to refer to the serial card. The serial number you provided has the letter “N” at the end which means the machine was manufactured after 1947. It is possible the lathe may not have the original bed ways

So who is correct?






Thank You
Tom Elmore
Anchorage, Ak




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Re: lathe dating

m. allan noah
 

The 'N' is part of the serial, just not the part that Grizzly thinks it is. Many 11" lathes serials end in 'N' in the 1920s. I have no idea why.

allan

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 4:13 PM, 'Jim B.' btdtrf@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

What Grizzly told you is generally correct. However in your case I think they are wrong.

 

I do not believe the “N” is part of the serial number.

There would have been 3 or 4 letters after the serial number on a late lathe. Something like NKK

Discounting the letter N your lathe was shipped 3/27/1926.

 

Now the significance of the Letter N would be to designate a Light 10” lathe. Part of the Workshop lathe family.

These lathes had a narrower bed than the series “O” lathes you mentioned. Thus the Headstock, saddle and tailstock from a Series “O” lathe would not fit on a Light 10, or 10K lathe.

A Picture would be nice for the benefit of the members.

 

Serial numbers for the older lathes succeeded by the letter N may be that this signifies an “N” series lathe.

Allan could help us out here as there is a difference between the “O”  and the “N” aprons. I believe (but I am not sure) that the “O” series is open and the “N” series is double walled. I also find the Catalog 33 lathe listed as both Series 0’s and N’s.

 

When it comes to the letter series lathes I don’t believe Grizzly is that cognoscente.

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 2:41 PM
To: southbendlathe@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] lathe dating

 

 

 

Hello, I have recently acquired my fist lathe a South Bend 11", O series (cat. 33-B). I am trying to determine it's age based upon the serial number stamped on the end of the lathe near the tailstock.
That number is 32675N and from I have been able to come up with it appears this lathe is from around 1926. The people at South Bend are saying it was made around 1953 from the card I ordered for it.  This is their response to me:  The earliest records show that lathes were numbered sequentially, beginning with 700, in July, 1910 and ending with 186,514 in March 1947. After March, 1947 a new Serial Number system that included letters at the end of serial numbers was enacted. This allowed the user or parts technician to determine the order the machine was manufactured in relation to its size and some of the specs of the machine- without having to refer to the serial card. The serial number you provided has the letter “N” at the end which means the machine was manufactured after 1947. It is possible the lathe may not have the original bed ways

So who is correct?






Thank You
Tom Elmore
Anchorage, Ak




Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com





--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"


Re: lathe dating

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

What Grizzly told you is generally correct. However in your case I think they are wrong.

 

I do not believe the “N” is part of the serial number.

There would have been 3 or 4 letters after the serial number on a late lathe. Something like NKK

Discounting the letter N your lathe was shipped 3/27/1926.

 

Now the significance of the Letter N would be to designate a Light 10” lathe. Part of the Workshop lathe family.

These lathes had a narrower bed than the series “O” lathes you mentioned. Thus the Headstock, saddle and tailstock from a Series “O” lathe would not fit on a Light 10, or 10K lathe.

A Picture would be nice for the benefit of the members.

 

Serial numbers for the older lathes succeeded by the letter N may be that this signifies an “N” series lathe.

Allan could help us out here as there is a difference between the “O”  and the “N” aprons. I believe (but I am not sure) that the “O” series is open and the “N” series is double walled. I also find the Catalog 33 lathe listed as both Series 0’s and N’s.

 

When it comes to the letter series lathes I don’t believe Grizzly is that cognoscente.

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 2:41 PM
To: southbendlathe@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] lathe dating

 

 

 

Hello, I have recently acquired my fist lathe a South Bend 11", O series (cat. 33-B). I am trying to determine it's age based upon the serial number stamped on the end of the lathe near the tailstock.
That number is 32675N and from I have been able to come up with it appears this lathe is from around 1926. The people at South Bend are saying it was made around 1953 from the card I ordered for it.  This is their response to me:  The earliest records show that lathes were numbered sequentially, beginning with 700, in July, 1910 and ending with 186,514 in March 1947. After March, 1947 a new Serial Number system that included letters at the end of serial numbers was enacted. This allowed the user or parts technician to determine the order the machine was manufactured in relation to its size and some of the specs of the machine- without having to refer to the serial card. The serial number you provided has the letter “N” at the end which means the machine was manufactured after 1947. It is possible the lathe may not have the original bed ways

So who is correct?






Thank You
Tom Elmore
Anchorage, Ak




Re: trouble between centers

shadetree1962
 

I'm just throwing this out there to see if it helps. I think you have several things going on and the previous answers covered a lot, trueing the center etc.

 - No matter what you do turning between centers can never be quite as ridged as turning in a collet or chuck.

 - Nelson beat me to it. Try high-speed steel. Make the edge as keen as possible as Nelson suggested but remember that whatever radius you put on the tool tip needs to be less than the depth of cut. Mild steel won't work harden appreciably so you shouldn't be fighting the 'skin' created by previous passes. It is fairly limber at a 1/2" diameter though and UI think a piece 8" between centers is much to flexible for carbide. Give the high-speed a try. I think you will wonder why you have been throwing money at carbide afterward. That part is a personal opinion though.


Shadetree


lathe dating

tom@...
 

 
Hello, I have recently acquired my fist lathe a South Bend 11", O series (cat. 33-B). I am trying to determine it's age based upon the serial number stamped on the end of the lathe near the tailstock.
That number is 32675N and from I have been able to come up with it appears this lathe is from around 1926. The people at South Bend are saying it was made around 1953 from the card I ordered for it.  This is their response to me:  The earliest records show that lathes were numbered sequentially, beginning with 700, in July, 1910 and ending with 186,514 in March 1947. After March, 1947 a new Serial Number system that included letters at the end of serial numbers was enacted. This allowed the user or parts technician to determine the order the machine was manufactured in relation to its size and some of the specs of the machine- without having to refer to the serial card. The serial number you provided has the letter “N” at the end which means the machine was manufactured after 1947. It is possible the lathe may not have the original bed ways

So who is correct?






Thank You
Tom Elmore
Anchorage, Ak


Re: trouble between centers

Nelson Collar
 

John 
If I might throw in my two cents. Try a high speed steel, grind and hone to as sharp as a razor blade and put a slight radius on the tip. See how that works. HSS will cut at low speeds where most inserts will not. 
Nelson Collar 



From: "mark.jonkman@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: southbendlathe
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] trouble between centers

 
Carbide tends to give a much better finish when combining high speeds and heavy cuts which is what it was designed for. On my heavy 10 I tend toward high speed steel inserts 75% of the time unless I know the work piece is fairly hard and or its above 2" diameter. I assume you swapped cutting edges on your carbide bit to make sure you have a fresh edge? If you have a 3/8" high speed steel tool bit kicking around I'd grind it into a good shape with reliefs for holding in the quick change tool post and give it a shot.  You don't mention whether you are hearing chatter as its cutting vs a course tearing/thready type finish. You also don't mention feed rates - assuming you've tried slower feed rates and faster feed rates. Did you brush on any cutting oil to help things?

For the other guy turning the 20" between centers and complaining about heat build up. Other than using cutting oil, if you have a air compressor and a regulator, try turning the air pressure down to about 20-40 psi (maybe even less) and keep an air stream hitting the tool bit. That might keep your heat down in a pinch. I have a Cool Mist that i mount on whatever machine I'm using when I have to keep the heat down. Obviously it uses cutting fluid and air but there are others on the market I think that strictly use air (Chilly bits??? or something like that). Worth a shot and might get you by as a poor man's temporary cooling system.

Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman




From: "johnnyblock1@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" To: "southbendlathe"
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 4:18:15 PM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] trouble between centers

 
I am using a quick change tool post with the triangular inserts. The work is 8 inches between centers. I tried both 800 and 1200 RPM with no noticeable difference between the two.




Re: trouble between centers

oscar kern <kernbigo@...>
 

put never size on the center problem solved



On Friday, December 11, 2015 10:28 AM, "'Rick' crvtfan@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:


 
 
, but i keep cutting a taper because the work heats up and binds the centers,
 
800 RPM is still too fast as you are still building heat.
I would slow way down to reduce the heat.
Another solution might be to use mist of flood coolant.
Rick in WA State



Re: trouble between centers

Rick Rick
 

 

, but i keep cutting a taper because the work heats up and binds the centers,

 

800 RPM is still too fast as you are still building heat.

I would slow way down to reduce the heat.

Another solution might be to use mist of flood coolant.

Rick in WA State


Re: Suspected SPAM: RE: trouble between centers

Thomas G Brandl
 

Its been a while since I’ve turned between centers. Most of the lathes I’ve had to work with, the tailstock spindle bore was worn. What I would do is to fold up a piece of paper or something to keep the tail of the lathe dog to the one side of the slot in the drive plate. Hope that makes sense. Usually, I did this as I didn’t like the clacking of the tail in that slot.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 8:36 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Suspected SPAM: RE: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] trouble between centers

 

 

I’m not very experience at machining but I will give you my thoughts.

We know that all factors of turning are the same except for the way the part is mounted.

                Same tool bit

                Same piece of stock

                Same feeds & Speeds

                Same cutting oil (if used)

                Same live/dead center in the tail stock

 

Making some assumptions, by lousy finish you mean a rough surface. Also you are not getting any chatter.

The only difference is the part is either turned using a chuck (3 jaw) or Dog. When the part is in a chuck, it is firmly clamped. When held between centers the part is squeezed and turned by a dog that “floats” with rotation. I don’t understand why that would make a difference but I would start looking there.

 

Try putting in a dead center clamped in the chuck. True up the point then see if you get a better finish.

Do the same with a dead center mounted directly in the spindle.

Check your live center in the tail stock. If you have a different one try it.

You may also try a dead center in the tail stock.

 

Do each of these one at a time and you will be able to hone into what your problem is.

 

Good luck to you.

 

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 7:31 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] trouble between centers

 

 

Thanks for all the advice. The thing that I don't understand is that I get a great finish with the work in a chuck at the headstock, and a lousy finish with the work between centers with a dog, and all other conditions exactly the same.


Re: trouble between centers

ww_big_al
 

I’m not very experience at machining but I will give you my thoughts.

We know that all factors of turning are the same except for the way the part is mounted.

                Same tool bit

                Same piece of stock

                Same feeds & Speeds

                Same cutting oil (if used)

                Same live/dead center in the tail stock

 

Making some assumptions, by lousy finish you mean a rough surface. Also you are not getting any chatter.

The only difference is the part is either turned using a chuck (3 jaw) or Dog. When the part is in a chuck, it is firmly clamped. When held between centers the part is squeezed and turned by a dog that “floats” with rotation. I don’t understand why that would make a difference but I would start looking there.

 

Try putting in a dead center clamped in the chuck. True up the point then see if you get a better finish.

Do the same with a dead center mounted directly in the spindle.

Check your live center in the tail stock. If you have a different one try it.

You may also try a dead center in the tail stock.

 

Do each of these one at a time and you will be able to hone into what your problem is.

 

Good luck to you.

 

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 7:31 AM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] trouble between centers

 

 

Thanks for all the advice. The thing that I don't understand is that I get a great finish with the work in a chuck at the headstock, and a lousy finish with the work between centers with a dog, and all other conditions exactly the same.


Re: trouble between centers

Jim
 

Is the lathe dog held firmly where the tang enters the face plate? If the dog can rotate - even a small amount - that might explain what you are experiencing.

On 12/11/2015 07:30 AM, johnnyblock1@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:
 

Thanks for all the advice. The thing that I don't understand is that I get a great finish with the work in a chuck at the headstock, and a lousy finish with the work between centers with a dog, and all other conditions exactly the same.



Re: trouble between centers

John Gallo
 

Thanks for all the advice. The thing that I don't understand is that I get a great finish with the work in a chuck at the headstock, and a lousy finish with the work between centers with a dog, and all other conditions exactly the same.


Re: trouble between centers

Mark R. Jonkman
 

Carbide tends to give a much better finish when combining high speeds and heavy cuts which is what it was designed for. On my heavy 10 I tend toward high speed steel inserts 75% of the time unless I know the work piece is fairly hard and or its above 2" diameter. I assume you swapped cutting edges on your carbide bit to make sure you have a fresh edge? If you have a 3/8" high speed steel tool bit kicking around I'd grind it into a good shape with reliefs for holding in the quick change tool post and give it a shot.  You don't mention whether you are hearing chatter as its cutting vs a course tearing/thready type finish. You also don't mention feed rates - assuming you've tried slower feed rates and faster feed rates. Did you brush on any cutting oil to help things?

For the other guy turning the 20" between centers and complaining about heat build up. Other than using cutting oil, if you have a air compressor and a regulator, try turning the air pressure down to about 20-40 psi (maybe even less) and keep an air stream hitting the tool bit. That might keep your heat down in a pinch. I have a Cool Mist that i mount on whatever machine I'm using when I have to keep the heat down. Obviously it uses cutting fluid and air but there are others on the market I think that strictly use air (Chilly bits??? or something like that). Worth a shot and might get you by as a poor man's temporary cooling system.

Sincerely
Mark R. Jonkman


From: "johnnyblock1@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]"
To: "southbendlathe" Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 4:18:15 PM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] trouble between centers

 

I am using a quick change tool post with the triangular inserts. The work is 8 inches between centers. I tried both 800 and 1200 RPM with no noticeable difference between the two.



Ideas from ldeco58148

sarmedic6987
 

http://stemcellofatlanta.com/unsyqps.php?ldeco58148







----------------
From : ldeco58148

12/11/2015 12:51:41 PM




Re: trouble between centers

Gregg Eshelman
 

On 12/10/2015 12:04 PM, timh2870@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:


having a similar problem at the moment trying to turn a 20.5" long
length of pipe. i know my tailstock is aligned to the spindle to within
half a thou, but i keep cutting a taper because the work heats up and
binds the centers, so i cut slower, it cools off and is now loose, so by
the time i get close to the spindle with a pass, the work is being
pushed away almost 0.005" and rattles on the spindle center. short of
buying a spring loaded center, my workaround right now is to stop the
machine, leave the feed engaged, back off my cross slide and re-adjust
the tailstock every couple of inches of cut, then bring the cross slide
back to my number and turn it back on. using the follow-rest helped a
bit, but means i have to flip the work over, set up the dog and
follow-rest again just to finish off the last 3 inches of the part.
So you need to set it up with a flood cooling system. Deep chip tray with a sump, filter, pump etc.

Could also be the wrong cutting angle and/or wrong cutting tool type for the material.

What kind of pipe are you cutting?


Re: trouble between centers

m. allan noah
 

Half inch mild steel, 20+ inches long? Try a follower rest.

allan

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 6:22 PM, johnnyblock1@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 

I tried a dead center and got the same bad results. My finish cut was about.005.




--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"


Re: trouble between centers

John Gallo
 

I tried a dead center and got the same bad results. My finish cut was about.005.


Re: trouble between centers

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

20.5” long!

Follower rest?

 

Jim B.

 

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:05 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Re: trouble between centers

 

 

having a similar problem at the moment trying to turn a 20.5" long length of pipe. i know my tailstock is aligned to the spindle to within half a thou, but i keep cutting a taper because the work heats up and binds the centers, so i cut slower, it cools off and is now loose, so by the time i get close to the spindle with a pass, the work is being pushed away almost 0.005" and rattles on the spindle center. short of buying a spring loaded center, my workaround right now is to stop the machine, leave the feed engaged, back off my cross slide and re-adjust the tailstock every couple of inches of cut, then bring the cross slide back to my number and turn it back on. using the follow-rest helped a bit, but means i have to flip the work over, set up the dog and follow-rest again just to finish off the last 3 inches of the part.

tim




Re: trouble between centers

armne@sbcglobal.net <armne@...>
 

  Try a tool bit with less nose radius
Alec


From: "johnnyblock1@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...>
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] trouble between centers

 
I am using a quick change tool post with the triangular inserts. The work is 8 inches between centers. I tried both 800 and 1200 RPM with no noticeable difference between the two.



Re: trouble between centers

oscar kern <kernbigo@...>
 

how much finish cut?



On Thursday, December 10, 2015 3:19 PM, "'m. allan noah' kitno455@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:


 
Try a solid (dead) center in the tailstock instead of a revolving one.

allan

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:18 PM, johnnyblock1@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 
I am using a quick change tool post with the triangular inserts. The work is 8 inches between centers. I tried both 800 and 1200 RPM with no noticeable difference between the two.



--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"


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