Date   

Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

armne@...
 

   How do you use a DRO to make a bolt circle on a lathe ?


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

DJ Delorie
 

3D Printing gears:I am going to use a 3D printed gear on a spindle
as an indexer to cut an aluminum or cast iron gear on my mill. I
hope to make a 34 tooth gear to insert on my 9" Southbend to be able
to cut some metric threads. I have a rotary table but do not have
the plates to cut odd number of teeth. SketchUp has an app to draw
gears. The 3-D printed gear does not have to be as strong as I plan
to have a lock on the spindle shaft while cutting the final gear.
Do you need a gear, or just an index plate?

If you have a DRO on your lathe, it's pretty easy to generate a list
of drill spots for a bolt circle of 34 bolts... just search the web
for "bolt circle calculator".


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

James Instone
 

3D Printing gears:
I am going to use a 3D printed gear on a spindle as an indexer to cut an aluminum or cast iron gear on my mill. I hope to make a 34 tooth gear to insert on my 9" Southbend to be able to cut some metric threads. I have a rotary table but do not have the plates to cut odd number of teeth. SketchUp has an app to draw gears. The 3-D printed gear does not have to be as strong as I plan to have a lock on the spindle shaft while cutting the final gear.

joutrock




On Monday, June 1, 2015 3:09 AM, "DJ Delorie dj@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:


 

> For anything that needs to take mechanical stress you should set it
> to 100% in-fill.

I have trouble at 100% because any inaccuracy in the filament diameter
or print path causes an accumulation of bloat. 90% gives the print
some "breathing room". Other folks print in the 75-90% range for
strength parts.

But... this isn't a regular gear, this is a transposition gear. The
teeth are always 100% filled anyway, and most of the power is
transferred between the two rings of teeth, the shaft is "just" there
to keep it centered (unlike a metal gear, where the shaft/key
transfers all the power). So I need most of the strenth in the outer
portion of the gear, which is where there's the most plastic anyway.

The "failure mode" would be the two halves of the gear separating at a
print layer. If that happens, I'll design in some holes for pins or
something. My plan, though, is to print those key layers at 100%
infill.

> Since your printer can print ABS, you should be able to adjust the
> temperature to print nylon, which tends to have better layer adhesion.

I have some nylon but haven't tried it yet. ABS and nylon are at the
upper limit of the temperatures I can use so I don't know if it'll be
hot enough for a good print. I'll try it (and PLA, and maybe TGlase)
if the ABS gear breaks, but given that this is just to run the lead
screw, unless I make large pitch metric screws I don't think it will
be a problem. We'll see. For normal turning (power feed and imperial
threads) I can use the metal gears.

> Google 3D printed gears and you'll find some folks who have printed
> nylon gears for Atlas and 9x20 and some other lathes. On Thingiverse
> there's at least one full set of Atlas change gear models to download.

On Thingiverse there's pretty much everything...



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Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

Mark Hofer
 

Impressive use of a 3-d printer!  Well done!
M


http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_3136.html


The dial itself is 3D-printed ABS plastic, with an aluminum shaft,
including a printed helix gear. I have some photos of the process
starting here (keep hitting "next" until you get to the invoice pic):

http://www.delorie.com/photos/southbend-lathe/img_3125.html

Note that the shroud being printed is the first version, that expected
the 3/8 round that newer lathes had. I had to print a second one with
an L-bracket to fit the 34, which you can see in the "installed"
pictures, such as #3133 and #3135. The helix gear is shown in #3132.

The bracket has some flex in it, but I think that's OK as the drive
screw has some runout anyway. The indicator bobs along as the screw
turns, but the gear stays nicely meshed with essentially zero
backlash.

Just for reference, the shroud took about 17 hours to print, and the
gear and dial about 2 hours each. I wasn't in a hurry and chose
precision over speed. Putting all the pieces together took about five
hours, which included making that bolt and trimming down 

Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic .


Re: thd.chaseer dial

william B. Mispel
 



On 5/31/2015 10:36 PM, JR Cuellar juan.r.cuellar@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:
 

Hello, can you email the pic direct? For whatever reason it says I'm not a group member but am. I always get this error. Thanks.

On May 25, 2015 8:26 AM, "Bruce misltoe2@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from Bruce included below]

Here is the location for your thread chasing dial.
bruce



Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

DJ Delorie
 

For anything that needs to take mechanical stress you should set it
to 100% in-fill.
I have trouble at 100% because any inaccuracy in the filament diameter
or print path causes an accumulation of bloat. 90% gives the print
some "breathing room". Other folks print in the 75-90% range for
strength parts.

But... this isn't a regular gear, this is a transposition gear. The
teeth are always 100% filled anyway, and most of the power is
transferred between the two rings of teeth, the shaft is "just" there
to keep it centered (unlike a metal gear, where the shaft/key
transfers all the power). So I need most of the strenth in the outer
portion of the gear, which is where there's the most plastic anyway.

The "failure mode" would be the two halves of the gear separating at a
print layer. If that happens, I'll design in some holes for pins or
something. My plan, though, is to print those key layers at 100%
infill.

Since your printer can print ABS, you should be able to adjust the
temperature to print nylon, which tends to have better layer adhesion.
I have some nylon but haven't tried it yet. ABS and nylon are at the
upper limit of the temperatures I can use so I don't know if it'll be
hot enough for a good print. I'll try it (and PLA, and maybe TGlase)
if the ABS gear breaks, but given that this is just to run the lead
screw, unless I make large pitch metric screws I don't think it will
be a problem. We'll see. For normal turning (power feed and imperial
threads) I can use the metal gears.

Google 3D printed gears and you'll find some folks who have printed
nylon gears for Atlas and 9x20 and some other lathes. On Thingiverse
there's at least one full set of Atlas change gear models to download.
On Thingiverse there's pretty much everything...


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

Gregg Eshelman
 

On 5/31/2015 5:56 PM, DJ Delorie dj@delorie.com [SOUTHBENDLATHE] wrote:

I do plan on 3D printing some gears for the 34, though, to give it
metric threading capabilities. We'll see if ABS plastic is strong
enough for the task! I'm only making the transposition gear, so I
don't have to worry about driving a shaft or stripping a keyway. I
should be able to make do with two sets, one for small threads (0-1mm)
and one for large threads (1+mm). Unlike metal gears, I can print
both gears as one unit, so there's no problem about how to connect
them together.
For anything that needs to take mechanical stress you should set it to 100% in-fill.

Since your printer can print ABS, you should be able to adjust the temperature to print nylon, which tends to have better layer adhesion. Whats extra nice is nylon filament can be bought really cheap as string trimmer line.

Google 3D printed gears and you'll find some folks who have printed nylon gears for Atlas and 9x20 and some other lathes. On Thingiverse there's at least one full set of Atlas change gear models to download.


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

armne@...
 

    NASA uses 3D printers to make Nickel alloy rocket nozzles !
Alec Ryals


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

DJ Delorie
 

This could be a solution if I want to put a thread dial on a SB 9A I
have as rebuild project.
The only tricky part is getting the initial design into the computer.
My friends keep asking me "can you print this?" "can you print that?"
without consideration for how long it would take with a CAD program to
design such a thing.

Note: I use OpenSCAD with a gear library to design my gears. A bit
like programming, but the details are all accurate.

He prints his 3D model parts out of plastic and tries the fit on his
locomotive. Once he is happy, he sends the file to a company in the
US and gets the part printed 3D out of metal. Amazing results.
The 3D industry has a lot of other things to be excited about, too.
For example, they have a filament that's embedded with carbon fiber!
Yes, you can print (sort of) carbon fiber parts. They also have
filaments embedded with various soft metals like copper or brass,
which lets you polish the resulting plastic parts so they shine like
the metal! You can even mix conductive and nonconductive filaments on
a multi-extruder machine to print parts with built-in "wires" (think
100% printed flashlight).

And that's just the things you can do with a desktop extrusion
printer!

It still comes nowhere near the strength and precision you can get
from turning steel, though.


Re: thd.chaseer dial

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

You need to be logged in. 

Jim B,

On May 31, 2015, at 10:36 PM, JR Cuellar juan.r.cuellar@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 

Hello, can you email the pic direct? For whatever reason it says I'm not a group member but am. I always get this error. Thanks.



Re: thd.chaseer dial [1 Attachment]

JR Cuellar
 

Hello, can you email the pic direct? For whatever reason it says I'm not a group member but am. I always get this error. Thanks.

On May 25, 2015 8:26 AM, "Bruce misltoe2@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from Bruce included below]

Here is the location for your thread chasing dial.
bruce


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

carbure2003
 


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

Perhaps it's my math

Jim B,

On May 31, 2015, at 10:22 PM, DJ Delorie dj@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE] <SOUTHBENDLATHE@...> wrote:

 


> About 6.5 degrees, to match the lead of the lead screw.

Now I'm wondering if my math is wrong...

Nope, just checked my lathe with a protractor, and measured about 3
degrees. Maybe different lathes have different screw grometries?

> But overall very nice work.

Thanks!


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;) [1 Attachment]

DJ Delorie
 

About 6.5 degrees, to match the lead of the lead screw.
Now I'm wondering if my math is wrong...

Nope, just checked my lathe with a protractor, and measured about 3
degrees. Maybe different lathes have different screw grometries?

But overall very nice work.
Thanks!


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

DJ Delorie
 

Why did it take 5 hrs to assemble?
Not sure where the day went, but...

The print had "scaffolding" around it to hold up the overhangs. It
all had to be removed. Carefully. Turns out there's a bug in my
slicer that makes the scaffolding stick to the part more than it
should.

I had to figure out how to clamp a triangular section while the ABS
glue set. Turns out the lathe chuck was almost ideal for this,
though.

The slicer put scaffolding INSIDE the axle hole to hold up the edge of
a relief I added. If I had known how hard that would be to remove, I
would have designed it differently.

3D printing is not exact. All the holes had to be reamed, and where
appropriate, threaded. It's like working with a casting.

I only had long setscrews so had to shorten them. I tried a few ways
to hold them in the 34 before remembering I had a small chinese lathe,
which could hold them directly.

I had to make a bolt. This took longer than you'd expect because I'm
not a machinist. At least, I don't think of myself as one yet :-)

I had to remember where I left all my hand tools...


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;) [1 Attachment]

DJ Delorie
 

The next time you cut a thread dial gear, the teeth should run at a slight angle.
I did, it's a helix gear, just a very slight helix.

Also, the gear library I had for the cad software knows how to make
helical gears, and the printer doesn't care... made things a lot
easier to do right.

About 6.5 degrees, to match the lead of the lead screw.
Here's the math in the cad file...

m_tpi = 8;
m_dia = inch;
theta = atan(1/m_tpi/pi);

about 2.3 degrees for a 1" diameter 8tpi screw. The threads mesh well
so "good enough".


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

armne@sbcglobal.net <armne@...>
 

 
         Why did it take 5 hrs to assemble?
Thanks


On Sunday, May 31, 2015 4:57 PM, "DJ Delorie dj@... [SOUTHBENDLATHE]" wrote:


 

> I am SOOO impressed!!! I love the 3D printing phenomenon that is
> taking place!! It has to be the coolest thing to happen in a long
> time. If they can only get the price of reasonable sized machines
> down so more folks can own them. Very neat thread dial you have
> created and your bolt is nice too.

I'm still working out the kinks in mine, which I got from a friend:

http://seemecnc.com/products/rostock-max-complete-kit

The price for this is pretty good for what you get (it can print 11"
dia by 14" tall), but not as cheap as you can get. Some are as low as
$400 for a small printer (http://printrbot.com/). The filament is
pretty cheap, I think that indicator cost me about 50 cents in
plastic.

The tricky part with all 3D printers is getting all the (many)
settings right, so that you have good quality yet reasonable print
times. For example, while removing the "scaffolding" for the
threading shroud, the bracket cracked between two layers and I had to
glue it back together, because the scaffolding was stronger than the
part it was supporting!

I do plan on 3D printing some gears for the 34, though, to give it
metric threading capabilities. We'll see if ABS plastic is strong
enough for the task! I'm only making the transposition gear, so I
don't have to worry about driving a shaft or stripping a keyway. I
should be able to make do with two sets, one for small threads (0-1mm)
and one for large threads (1+mm). Unlike metal gears, I can print
both gears as one unit, so there's no problem about how to connect
them together.

Also, I designed the threading dial so it could be turned out of
metal, assuming you can weld on the angle bracket. Just in case, you
know ;-)



Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

Just an enhancement.

The next time you cut a thread dial gear, the teeth should run at a slight angle.

About 6.5 degrees, to match the lead of the lead screw.

Straight is OK since there is little load on the gear.

 

But overall very nice work.

Jim B. 


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 7:57 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

 

 


> I am SOOO impressed!!! I love the 3D printing phenomenon that is
> taking place!! It has to be the coolest thing to happen in a long
> time. If they can only get the price of reasonable sized machines
> down so more folks can own them. Very neat thread dial you have
> created and your bolt is nice too.

I'm still working out the kinks in mine, which I got from a friend:

http://seemecnc.com/products/rostock-max-complete-kit

The price for this is pretty good for what you get (it can print 11"
dia by 14" tall), but not as cheap as you can get. Some are as low as
$400 for a small printer (http://printrbot.com/). The filament is
pretty cheap, I think that indicator cost me about 50 cents in
plastic.

The tricky part with all 3D printers is getting all the (many)
settings right, so that you have good quality yet reasonable print
times. For example, while removing the "scaffolding" for the
threading shroud, the bracket cracked between two layers and I had to
glue it back together, because the scaffolding was stronger than the
part it was supporting!

I do plan on 3D printing some gears for the 34, though, to give it
metric threading capabilities. We'll see if ABS plastic is strong
enough for the task! I'm only making the transposition gear, so I
don't have to worry about driving a shaft or stripping a keyway. I
should be able to make do with two sets, one for small threads (0-1mm)
and one for large threads (1+mm). Unlike metal gears, I can print
both gears as one unit, so there's no problem about how to connect
them together.

Also, I designed the threading dial so it could be turned out of
metal, assuming you can weld on the angle bracket. Just in case, you
know ;-)


Re: I made a bolt! (and a threading dial ;)

DJ Delorie
 

I am SOOO impressed!!! I love the 3D printing phenomenon that is
taking place!! It has to be the coolest thing to happen in a long
time. If they can only get the price of reasonable sized machines
down so more folks can own them. Very neat thread dial you have
created and your bolt is nice too.
I'm still working out the kinks in mine, which I got from a friend:

http://seemecnc.com/products/rostock-max-complete-kit

The price for this is pretty good for what you get (it can print 11"
dia by 14" tall), but not as cheap as you can get. Some are as low as
$400 for a small printer (http://printrbot.com/). The filament is
pretty cheap, I think that indicator cost me about 50 cents in
plastic.

The tricky part with all 3D printers is getting all the (many)
settings right, so that you have good quality yet reasonable print
times. For example, while removing the "scaffolding" for the
threading shroud, the bracket cracked between two layers and I had to
glue it back together, because the scaffolding was stronger than the
part it was supporting!

I do plan on 3D printing some gears for the 34, though, to give it
metric threading capabilities. We'll see if ABS plastic is strong
enough for the task! I'm only making the transposition gear, so I
don't have to worry about driving a shaft or stripping a keyway. I
should be able to make do with two sets, one for small threads (0-1mm)
and one for large threads (1+mm). Unlike metal gears, I can print
both gears as one unit, so there's no problem about how to connect
them together.

Also, I designed the threading dial so it could be turned out of
metal, assuming you can weld on the angle bracket. Just in case, you
know ;-)

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