Date   

Re: Looking to buy, South Bend 10 Heavy, 11, or 13 - Houston Texas

alco2350@...
 

This was just posted today. What do you guys think?


Britt


Re: what is it?

Flash Gordon
 

Mike,

I am just a beginner, but I read a lot. If you are in north California. There is an expert in Portland Or, He has redone about a 100 lathes. I have visited his shop and I bet he would help you out. If you are interested I can hook you up.

Look at pictures here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45888076@N00/5156498202/in/photostream/

Ed S


Re: what is it?

william twombley
 

Hi Ed!

Good question on the saddle. Looks like I need to "mark" it. to see what kind of contact it has on the bearing surfaces ways, right? I have about a 10 inch bar of some sort made by starrett that seems to have nice ground, but I don't think, scraped surfaces.  I can use the surface plate at school to check it.  My machine shop instructor is a real ace... just a real font of knowledge, and is real encouraging!! At any rate, we can surely tune things  up to be some level of "standard". I am gathering a standard should, ideally be longer than the longest item to scrape? I'm new to this so there are big areas I am very thin with. I do have access to  a 60 inch granite surface plate just outside my office door that no one ever uses... lucky me!!

First, I plan to use the tail stock to get a grasp on how much wear is on the the outer ways of the new bed in the common wear area. The original scraping is still plainly visible in the headstock area. I would call it 60 to 70 percent. What is a decent number. I can do the same on the old bed as the the center ways are clean in the headstock region.

Looks like there is a period where the transition ocurred in "38-39" by the listings I've looked at. I noted a couple of lathes with top oilers on the list within a couple of hundred serial numbers either way of mine... transition period in the pipeline?

I believe I do have all the change gears.  It there something I should look for that is telling me something?

I really am not committed to any course of action other than making a nice serviceable machine that I can do nice accurate work on. I am not against havingthe bed on the 4 1/2' machine as they are, apparently relatively uncommon. It will not go to waste, for sure. If you know of a place to get the ways, saddle, and tailstock  done in Nor Cal redone, I am not against that at all.

Put the frosting under the saddle? Ah So!!! I looked carefully and it is all gone.  The saddle gib  shows traces of frosting. To check place saddle on precision round bars in the "V"s and measure to a Datum on the underside of the saddle? differences show wear and expect the most in the operator side of the saddle?

The base of the tailstock shows no frosting but noticeable wear maybe 1 to 1.5 inches at either end and the center 5 inches or so it is unfrosted but I'm barely able to pickup a fingernail on the worn area.

Only drawback it seems, is the headstock on the top oiler is usually not equipped with a hardened spindle.  Generally, being kind to your machine makes that a not so big of an issue. More than any thing else, a power crossfeed is the big ticket item for me as my hands are not so nimble any more.

Thanks Ed,  you sure seem to know your stuff.

Mike


Re: what is it?

Flash Gordon
 

Mike,

Welcome to the group.

The big question from me … does the saddle actually fit the ways on the new bed? Usually they have to be hand fitted.

Also if the bed is worn the saddle is worn even
more. It is softer. Cast iron vs. steel. Yet yours is not???

Paint, we can ship that part.

Head stock, top oiler in 39’; that’s
interesting. (not a "C" but a change gear
lathe... "C" came later), do you have all the change gears?

The difference is the top oiler is a lost oil
system; you have to keep adding oil because it
just runs out the bearings and oils other
parts. But you always have fresh oil in the
bearing. The drip oilers are a good idea. See
attached. I have two lathes that are top oilers and will add the drip oilers.

Oh… the frosting got sloppy because they started
to let the apprentices do that. But why would you
want to remove perfectly good steel from the top
of the bed is another good question for SB. I
know about sticktion, but usually you frost the
parts you cannot see i.e. under the saddle.

This will be an interesting project, keep us posted.

ED S

At 12:18 PM 4/1/2014, you wrote:


I think I have a south bend 9C (sn 88692) ......
mike


Re: 3C vs 6K

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

As I noted I have one in my 9”Workshop.

The normal 9” Workshop spindle is 49/64 bore through.

The 10K is 55/64 through hole.

 

Jim B.


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...] On Behalf Of kaleb sells
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 3:39 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: RE: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] 3C vs 6K

 

 

Can a 10k spindle be used in any 9" workshop? Does it give youba bigger through-hole?

Kaleb Sells
Oklahoma

On Apr 1, 2014 2:08 PM, "Jim B." <btdtrf@...> wrote:

 

I have a 10K spindle in my 9” Workshop headstock.

 

I do use 6K/3C/3AT collets.

I do not have a speed closer. I do have 3 handwheel closers.

The 3C and the 3AT have essentially the same threads but the 3AT is shorter, a bit larger in diameter and has a different taper than the 3C.

I have two POT collets for 3C.

 

I see no reason you could not make a tube for the 3C to fit your speed closer.

You would need a taper adapter sleeve for your lathe, to take 3C if you do not have one and a Nose piece if you do not  have one

 

Now a once in a lifetime offer.

 

I have a brand new 6K pot collet. Never used. It’s a big one, 4-1/2 OD.

I will probably never use it. I have had it since about the time SB had their going out of business sale.

I would be willing to part with it. I am getting old and need to start clearing stuff out.

Not inexpensive but if you are interested contact me off line.

 

I also have 3 6K SOFT steel collets; a 1/8 a ½, and a 9/16” (9/16 could be 35/64. All are unmarked.

They say Modern, 6K, soft.

 

I think you could just turn a shallow 1” ring in them. The OD seems to be 1-3/16 (1.178), the key is 0.080 deep.

The ring might break through the key.

 

Perhaps one of these would do better; I would guess the 9/16 one could work.

These would be cheaper.

 

Jim B.


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...] On Behalf Of David Rysdam
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 1:52 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] 3C vs 6K

 

 

For my decoder ring project, I think I want to use a pot collet (why are
they called that?) to clean up the back sides after parting. But I don't
want to chase down and pay for a 6K one.

In the mailing list archives, I find claims that the 10K spindle can
take a 3C collet, although you need a different closer because of
non-matching threads. (Online I've found claims that the collets are
totally different, but I guess I can trust the SB mailing list over some
guy on PM.)

However, I have the speed closer and I'd prefer not to give that up. Is
there an easy way to non-destructively modify that to be both 3C and 6K?
Can just the tube be replaced? This would be especially nice if I do a
mini-run of ~5 pairs of rings, which would be 30 pieces of similar
diameters. Wouldn't have to crank the handwheel all those times for each
piece...


Re: 3C vs 6K

kaleb sells
 

Can a 10k spindle be used in any 9" workshop? Does it give youba bigger through-hole?

Kaleb Sells
Oklahoma

On Apr 1, 2014 2:08 PM, "Jim B." <btdtrf@...> wrote:
 

I have a 10K spindle in my 9” Workshop headstock.

 

I do use 6K/3C/3AT collets.

I do not have a speed closer. I do have 3 handwheel closers.

The 3C and the 3AT have essentially the same threads but the 3AT is shorter, a bit larger in diameter and has a different taper than the 3C.

I have two POT collets for 3C.

 

I see no reason you could not make a tube for the 3C to fit your speed closer.

You would need a taper adapter sleeve for your lathe, to take 3C if you do not have one and a Nose piece if you do not  have one

 

Now a once in a lifetime offer.

 

I have a brand new 6K pot collet. Never used. It’s a big one, 4-1/2 OD.

I will probably never use it. I have had it since about the time SB had their going out of business sale.

I would be willing to part with it. I am getting old and need to start clearing stuff out.

Not inexpensive but if you are interested contact me off line.

 

I also have 3 6K SOFT steel collets; a 1/8 a ½, and a 9/16” (9/16 could be 35/64. All are unmarked.

They say Modern, 6K, soft.

 

I think you could just turn a shallow 1” ring in them. The OD seems to be 1-3/16 (1.178), the key is 0.080 deep.

The ring might break through the key.

 

Perhaps one of these would do better; I would guess the 9/16 one could work.

These would be cheaper.

 

Jim B.


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...] On Behalf Of David Rysdam
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 1:52 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] 3C vs 6K

 

 

For my decoder ring project, I think I want to use a pot collet (why are
they called that?) to clean up the back sides after parting. But I don't
want to chase down and pay for a 6K one.

In the mailing list archives, I find claims that the 10K spindle can
take a 3C collet, although you need a different closer because of
non-matching threads. (Online I've found claims that the collets are
totally different, but I guess I can trust the SB mailing list over some
guy on PM.)

However, I have the speed closer and I'd prefer not to give that up. Is
there an easy way to non-destructively modify that to be both 3C and 6K?
Can just the tube be replaced? This would be especially nice if I do a
mini-run of ~5 pairs of rings, which would be 30 pieces of similar
diameters. Wouldn't have to crank the handwheel all those times for each
piece...


Re: Question for the group: What was....

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

It's a long time ago.  Dad was a metalwork teacher at the local technical secondary school in Grimsby in the 1960s.  Can't be certain how old I was, but probably about 8 when he acquired a flat bed Drummond.  I was taught to make an oscillating engine etc. and steam boat to fit it in as in Cassel's work books.  In my teens there was a Stuart Turner beam engine, the Drummond by this time having become a Myford ML7, which I still have at home.  I subsquently used it for creating a steam powered air compressor which I had to design in a hurry for a 2' gauge loco, using the only bought in parts - piston rings for a Clayton Dewandre air compressor as used on lorries.  That was the Myford's last big project, as I have since had access to bigger kit, but it still gets used for the most accurate work, as I bought a new 3 jaw for it, so work can be reversed in the chuck successfully.  It is just big enough for the coupling rod bushes of my current 2' gauge loco.
 
The first significant job done on the recently acquired 14.5" SB at the Golden Valley Light Railway has been 6 off Acme thread 1" x 5 tpi nuts for handbrakes.
 
My scariest moment was when turning the links for the parallel motion of the beam engine between centres to create a pleasing barrel shape.  Dug the tool in, the job bent in the middle and came flying out and hit  me right between the eyes.  Fortunately father always insisted on my wearing protective goggles, so I was completely unscathed.  "Scariest moments" thread anyone?
 
Eddie

From: Pat/Juke/Whatever...
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 10:31 PM
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Question for the group: What was....
 
…the very first thing you made on your lathe?
 
-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody eats when they come to MY house!"
 


Re: 3C vs 6K

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

I have a 10K spindle in my 9” Workshop headstock.

 

I do use 6K/3C/3AT collets.

I do not have a speed closer. I do have 3 handwheel closers.

The 3C and the 3AT have essentially the same threads but the 3AT is shorter, a bit larger in diameter and has a different taper than the 3C.

I have two POT collets for 3C.

 

I see no reason you could not make a tube for the 3C to fit your speed closer.

You would need a taper adapter sleeve for your lathe, to take 3C if you do not have one and a Nose piece if you do not  have one

 

Now a once in a lifetime offer.

 

I have a brand new 6K pot collet. Never used. It’s a big one, 4-1/2 OD.

I will probably never use it. I have had it since about the time SB had their going out of business sale.

I would be willing to part with it. I am getting old and need to start clearing stuff out.

Not inexpensive but if you are interested contact me off line.

 

I also have 3 6K SOFT steel collets; a 1/8 a ½, and a 9/16” (9/16 could be 35/64. All are unmarked.

They say Modern, 6K, soft.

 

I think you could just turn a shallow 1” ring in them. The OD seems to be 1-3/16 (1.178), the key is 0.080 deep.

The ring might break through the key.

 

Perhaps one of these would do better; I would guess the 9/16 one could work.

These would be cheaper.

 

Jim B.


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...] On Behalf Of David Rysdam
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 1:52 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] 3C vs 6K

 

 

For my decoder ring project, I think I want to use a pot collet (why are
they called that?) to clean up the back sides after parting. But I don't
want to chase down and pay for a 6K one.

In the mailing list archives, I find claims that the 10K spindle can
take a 3C collet, although you need a different closer because of
non-matching threads. (Online I've found claims that the collets are
totally different, but I guess I can trust the SB mailing list over some
guy on PM.)

However, I have the speed closer and I'd prefer not to give that up. Is
there an easy way to non-destructively modify that to be both 3C and 6K?
Can just the tube be replaced? This would be especially nice if I do a
mini-run of ~5 pairs of rings, which would be 30 pieces of similar
diameters. Wouldn't have to crank the handwheel all those times for each
piece...


Re: Question for the group: What was....

steam1919
 

the little taper screw that goes in top of cross slide nut


Re: what is it?

william twombley
 

Thanks guys!! Very impressive!  I'm still gathering sources of info on these old guys.  There is lots of data to find on production data and variations, but lots of searching needed to find it!

I'm new to this group and have not found all the nuggets of source data. Is there a list of links  of any sort. Or better a well researched book  on the subject of SBL production?
again thanks.

I know it is blasphemy, but I have  a pint of Hemi orange POR 15 engine paint. That should spice up my shop over the machine grey, dontcha think??

Well, it's off on an data expedition.

A frriend has what he calls a 1928 "heavy 9"... single tumbler, 5 or 6 way turret. He found the 42 inch bed for me it is 116xxx sn range... looks like within a year of so, "40" or "41" by sbwells' listing. Minimal wear it looks like.  Scraping or frosting is really is very simple, but the frosting (chipping?) is clearly visible, even in poor light even in the headstock area. I understand depression era machines were utilitarian rather than the real pretty artsy fartsy stuff. Simple and utilitarian... the best product for the lowest labor cost?

I'll watch that note on QCGB  on spacing. I am toying with the thought of a QCGB... not essential but certainly a nice addition. That and a powered apron is very tempting.

thanks!!

mike


Re: 3C vs 6K

vtsblogan@...
 


Re: 3C vs 6K

Thomas G Brandl
 

Dave,
         They are different. The two main differences are the threads and the front angle. I am guessing you have a 3C collet or 3C Pot collet. I do not know the size 'OD' of these rings. There are also soft collets or 'Emergency' collets. Not sure of the availability of these in 3C or 6K. I could see that you could adapt a 3C collet or even a 3C pot collet to work. The 1K spindle would take the 3C SB adapter. Not sure of the thru hole though. Then you could make a sleeve threads ID and OD. ID for 3C threads, and OD for 6K threads. That is if you have a 6K  closer. If a pot collet, then you could make a closer ring for it. Thread it onto the spindle, the cut an angle counter to the angle on the pot collet. On PM, in the Monarch section on guy did this. Not easy finding Monarch stuff. I do have one for my 10EE, but don't have the complete lever closer set up.  
                                                                                Tom



From:        David Rysdam <david@...>
To:        SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Date:        04/01/2014 01:49 PM
Subject:        [SOUTHBENDLATHE] 3C vs 6K
Sent by:        SOUTHBENDLATHE@...




 

For my decoder ring project, I think I want to use a pot collet (why are
they called that?) to clean up the back sides after parting. But I don't
want to chase down and pay for a 6K one.

In the mailing list archives, I find claims that the 10K spindle can
take a 3C collet, although you need a different closer because of
non-matching threads. (Online I've found claims that the collets are
totally different, but I guess I can trust the SB mailing list over some
guy on PM.)

However, I have the speed closer and I'd prefer not to give that up. Is
there an easy way to non-destructively modify that to be both 3C and 6K?
Can just the tube be replaced? This would be especially nice if I do a
mini-run of ~5 pairs of rings, which would be 30 pieces of similar
diameters. Wouldn't have to crank the handwheel all those times for each
piece...



This email has been scanned for Malware.
______________________________________________________________________


3C vs 6K

David Rysdam <david@...>
 

For my decoder ring project, I think I want to use a pot collet (why are
they called that?) to clean up the back sides after parting. But I don't
want to chase down and pay for a 6K one.

In the mailing list archives, I find claims that the 10K spindle can
take a 3C collet, although you need a different closer because of
non-matching threads. (Online I've found claims that the collets are
totally different, but I guess I can trust the SB mailing list over some
guy on PM.)

However, I have the speed closer and I'd prefer not to give that up. Is
there an easy way to non-destructively modify that to be both 3C and 6K?
Can just the tube be replaced? This would be especially nice if I do a
mini-run of ~5 pairs of rings, which would be 30 pieces of similar
diameters. Wouldn't have to crank the handwheel all those times for each
piece...


Re: what is it?

Jim B. <btdtrf@...>
 

Serial #88692 was shipped in March of 1939.

 

Yes early Workshop 9” lathes had the oilers in the top of the heads stock journals. They are called top oilers, the catalogue # should be 415 and technically, if yours is a top oiler it is NOT a Model C. It’s a change gear 9” Workshop lathe.

In 1939 SB revised the Workshop line. They moved the oilers to the side adding an improved wick system and introduced the Model A, B, and C terminology.

However I would have thought a lathe produced in March of 1939 would have had side oilers.

I wonder if the heads stock is original?

 

Adding the oil reservoirs to the head stock is a very good approach.

 

Jim B.


From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto:SOUTHBENDLATHE@...] On Behalf Of twombo@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 12:19 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] what is it?

 

 

I think I have a south bend 9C  (sn 88692) that I am finally doing  a bit of refurbing after 30 years or so.  The 4 1/2' bed was severely worn in the headstock area and I stumbles across a really nice 3 1/2 ' bed and I am "franken lathing" it. Taking the best and refitting the rest.

The tail stock is really clean and shows very minor wear on the bearing surfaces  at first impression. 
The saddle is not showing severe wear  or scoring so it may be refittable again... TBD.  The numbers will tell the answer, I guess

I have dial indicators, DTIs,  a 10" Starrett level and some minimal straight edges and assorted v blocks to begin with... plus the Connelly book as a reference. I also have the rebuild book, seal felts kit, and special tools and spanner kit  for a 9C.

The odd thing is the headstock has the oilers on the top rather than the sides. Is that a very early thirties unit? That is my most pressing question as I am doing the headstock first. Does this present any special issues. I actually like the top oilers because they a can be replaced with the oilers like on a friends late 20s heavy 9. I like being able to see what the heck is going on with the lubricant situation.

mike


Re: what is it?

john kling
 

The holes in the bed to support the lead screw (headstock end) seem to be spaced differently on some of the 415 than on later lathes.


From: Jim B.
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:22 PM
Subject: RE: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] what is it?

 
Serial #88692 was shipped in March of 1939.
 
Yes early Workshop 9” lathes had the oilers in the top of the heads stock journals. They are called top oilers, the catalogue # should be 415 and technically, if yours is a top oiler it is NOT a Model C. It’s a change gear 9” Workshop lathe.
In 1939 SB revised the Workshop line. They moved the oilers to the side adding an improved wick system and introduced the Model A, B, and C terminology.
However I would have thought a lathe produced in March of 1939 would have had side oilers.
I wonder if the heads stock is original?
 
Adding the oil reservoirs to the head stock is a very good approach.
 
Jim B.

From: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... [mailto: SOUTHBENDLATHE@... ] On Behalf Of twombo@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 12:19 PM
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE@...
Subject: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] what is it?
 
 
I think I have a south bend 9C  (sn 88692) that I am finally doing  a bit of refurbing after 30 years or so.  The 4 1/2' bed was severely worn in the headstock area and I stumbles across a really nice 3 1/2 ' bed and I am "franken lathing" it. Taking the best and refitting the rest.

The tail stock is really clean and shows very minor wear on the bearing surfaces  at first impression. 
The saddle is not showing severe wear  or scoring so it may be refittable again... TB D.   The numbers will tell the answer, I guess

I have dial indicators, DTIs,  a 10" Starrett level and some minimal straight edges and assorted v blocks to begin with... plus the Connelly book as a reference. I also have the rebuild book, seal felts kit, and special tools and spanner kit  for a 9C.

The odd thing is the headstock has the oilers on the top rather than the sides. Is that a very early thirties unit? That is my most pressing question as I am doing the headstock first. Does this present any special issues. I actually like the top oilers because they a can be replaced with the oilers like on a friends late 20s heavy 9. I like being able to see what the heck is going on with the lubricant situation.

mike



what is it?

william twombley
 

I think I have a south bend 9C  (sn 88692) that I am finally doing  a bit of refurbing after 30 years or so.  The 4 1/2' bed was severely worn in the headstock area and I stumbles across a really nice 3 1/2 ' bed and I am "franken lathing" it. Taking the best and refitting the rest.

The tail stock is really clean and shows very minor wear on the bearing surfaces  at first impression. 
The saddle is not showing severe wear  or scoring so it may be refittable again... TBD.  The numbers will tell the answer, I guess

I have dial indicators, DTIs,  a 10" Starrett level and some minimal straight edges and assorted v blocks to begin with... plus the Connelly book as a reference. I also have the rebuild book, seal felts kit, and special tools and spanner kit  for a 9C.

The odd thing is the headstock has the oilers on the top rather than the sides. Is that a very early thirties unit? That is my most pressing question as I am doing the headstock first. Does this present any special issues. I actually like the top oilers because they a can be replaced with the oilers like on a friends late 20s heavy 9. I like being able to see what the heck is going on with the lubricant situation.

mike


Re: Question for the group: What was....

wordguy1950
 

An oscillating cylinder “steam” engine.


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Re: Looking to buy, South Bend 10 Heavy, 11, or 13 - Houston Texas

Nfwood
 

I have bought smaller things from Lost Creek and have had good experiences with them.  

IMHO 13 x 24 seems an awkward size unless you plan to turn things of large diameter and short length.  Most of us probably work smaller diameter but longer things.  My preference would be for something with 11 or 12 inch swing and a bit longer bed.  I have a Rockwell 11 x 36 that meets my needs, is about all I can handle and large enough that I can get  close enough to see what is happening at the cutting edge.  

BTW, where are you located?

Good luck.

Nelson


-----Original Message-----
From: alco2350
To: SOUTHBENDLATHE
Sent: Mon, Mar 31, 2014 10:36 pm
Subject: Re: [SOUTHBENDLATHE] Looking to buy, South Bend 10 Heavy, 11, or 13 - Houston Texas



I kinda figured that out, that the bigger the machines got - the lower the prices, yet the rarer the parts. I found this one today: http://www.lostcreekmachine.com/ Click on "Used Lathes" and scroll down until you see the 13x24. It's an older machine and they want 995.00 for it. I called and they said I could have it at my door for about 1600.00. Spoke to the guy at length, seems nice enough but I don't know anything about this outfit. The phase converter is a rotary phase converter, he seemed proud of that.

Thoughts on this machine? One fella over on PM said that this was too high. It's the shipping that's killing me.

Britt



Re: Looking to buy, South Bend 10 Heavy, 11, or 13 - Houston Texas

ken campbell
 


ditto on passing the short 13 inch.  it  is  actually a good buy if you could make what you want ... but i would hold out for a 13 x 4x with the 5c nose.
 
you should find one in these times for $3K range.  make sure at that price you get 3 jaw, 4 jaw, follow, steady, and thread dial.
 
to make you feel better, i bot mine at $4500 with no regrets. got extra chuck, plates, dogs .
 
over the next 20 years you will think that $10 a month was worth it, if you use it only once a month.
 
plus you can sell it for more ...because it's more useful ..
 
i see them on craig's list occasionally.
 
ken
 
 

 

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