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Re: Collet closer disassembly proceedure
Jeff Beck
That is correct. The 10k will take a 6K collet directly in the
spindle with no adapter. Jeff --- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "imarelicz28" <imarelicz28@...> wrote: the inside of my spindle cleaned out, I can say for certain, that theretook of it. The lathe is a 10K. According to the date / sn matrix, it
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Re: Odd 405 parts?
Jim B. <eeengineer@...>
Yes the bottom picture.
But that's my lathe. I sent that picture to
Tony.
Jim B. "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex.... It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction" Albert Einstein/ EF Schumacher (ATCMB) From: southbendlathe@... [mailto:southbendlathe@...] On Behalf Of CAL Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 8:55 PM To: southbendlathe@... Subject: Re: [southbendlathe] Re: Odd 405 parts? Jim are these the holes you are talking about? http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/page23.html
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Re: Collet closer disassembly proceedure
imarelicz28 <imarelicz28@...>
John, I can answer your question about "wasn't there a 10" lathe
that takes collets, that does not require a sleeve"? The answer is "yes", because I have one of them. I had looked at dwgings and pic's of collet closers, and just assumed that the spindle must contain a separate sleeve that was removable. Now that I've got the inside of my spindle cleaned out, I can say for certain, that there is no sleeve. The spindle incorporates a taper "and" the proper bevel and tit that locates the collets. Here's a link to Pic I took of it. The lathe is a 10K. According to the date / sn matrix, it was built in 72. Do you know what size taper is in the spindle? http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v224/imarelic/south%20bend% 20lathe/?action=view¤t=Colletcloser2001.jpg Chris and John, thanks for your comments and suggestions. Bob --- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "JohnW" <John.Walker@...> wrote: remove the standard collet sleeve. The standard sleeve has a largeflange on the outboard end, as you screw off the thread protector itpushes against the flange and forces the collet sleeve out.a collet without requiring a sleeve? If so is there a sleeve inplace or is that just the standard taper for the 10K?
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Re: Odd 405 parts?
CAL <cal@...>
Jim are these the holes you are talking about? http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/page23.html
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Skinner Chuck
Johnny Kleso <rarebear@...>
Hello,
Can any one tell me what lathe this chuck fits? It has 1 ¾"-6 mounting thread... http://home.comcast.net/~stanleyplanes/chuck/1.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~stanleyplanes/chuck/2.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~stanleyplanes/chuck/3.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~stanleyplanes/chuck/4.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~stanleyplanes/chuck/5.jpg Also what it maybe worth? Thanks Very Much, Johnny Kleso AKA rarebear www.REXMILL.com
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Re: Odd 405 parts?
Tom Boergert
Ha! You're right about the spindle lock nut on the 405. I had to go
out to the garage for a look and the nut my 405 is solid with a locking screw and the one on my 9A is split. I've taken them both apart and never noticed. I'll be happy to have the lock nuts and will send you me address shortly. Tom --- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Jim B." <eeengineer@...> wrote: thing fitted. In fact the "new" head stock you see is running the 405 conepulley and bull gear. I changed the thrust washer over to the newer ball bearingone even before I switched the spindle. I have also added the rollerbearing thrust washer modification. That gets tight with the old spindle.lock nut on my 405 is different than the newer ones. The new ones are splitand have screw that pinches them together. The 405 was not split and had agrub screw that would bear down on the threads with a tendency to bugger themup. they are "aftermarket" after all I have only had the lathe 28 years of its73 year life.found out that they will not fit his newer lathe. If you send me youraddress on the back wire I will drop them in an envelop.It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage to move in the oppositedirection" [mailto:southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of boergerttThose screws are always coming loose on mine. Did I understand that you ran a10K spindle in your old top-oil headstock? Did it fit with the the405 cone pulley, thrust washer, etc? I have been considering this to getthe more standard 1 1/2 X 8 spindle threads.slide. Evidently there were variations even in the short-lived 405. Notonly does my 405 have no holes on the cross slide extension, it has no holeswhere the compound rotates.http://finance.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe2/photos/brows e/~--> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.-~-> Files area FAQ:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/SouthBendLatheFAQ. html Post: mailto:southbendlathe@yahoogroups.comcommunities. Links
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Re: Collet closer disassembly proceedure
ChristopherS
I must have misunderstood what kind of collets & sleeve you have. My thread protector can't be unscrewed without my 5C sleeve running interference. That's how I remove my sleeve. My tapper is clean though. So it doesn't take much torque. Chris imarelicz28 wrote:
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Also in the folder are my little nuts!!!!!!!
ChristopherS
Jim. I didn't want to hijack your thread so I'm posting this separately. When I reached that part of your post I chuckled a little. I proceeded to read the rest of the post but I kept thinking about that sentence as I read. It soon became impossible to continue reading because I was laughing so damn hard that my eyes began to tear! All I can say is "It beats having them in a vice! Oh! Nice pix. The spindle looks so much larger than a 1-1/2". And yes, your little nuts look great on the CS! :-) Chris
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Re: Odd 405 parts?
Jim B. <eeengineer@...>
Yes I ran the 10K spindle in the old 405 headstock and every thing fitted.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
In fact the "new" head stock you see is running the 405 cone pulley and bull gear. I changed the thrust washer over to the newer ball bearing one even before I switched the spindle. I have also added the roller bearing thrust washer modification. That gets tight with the old spindle. BTW now that I think of it there is another difference. The thrust lock nut on my 405 is different than the newer ones. The new ones are split and have screw that pinches them together. The 405 was not split and had a grub screw that would bear down on the threads with a tendency to bugger them up. I am not sure where/when the holes on the cross came from. Perhaps they are "aftermarket" after all I have only had the lathe 28 years of its 73 year life. I made a second set of gibb lock screw nuts for a friend and then found out that they will not fit his newer lathe. If you send me your address on the back wire I will drop them in an envelop. Jim B. "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex.... It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction" Albert Einstein/ EF Schumacher (ATCMB)
-----Original Message-----
From: southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of boergertt Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 4:23 PM To: southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com Subject: [southbendlathe] Re: Odd 405 parts? Jim, Nice looking lathe. Also, nice looking gib screw lock nuts. Those screws are always coming loose on mine. Did I understand that you ran a 10K spindle in your old top-oil headstock? Did it fit with the the 405 cone pulley, thrust washer, etc? I have been considering this to get the more standard 1 1/2 X 8 spindle threads. I read the discussion concerning the holes in the 405 cross slide. Evidently there were variations even in the short-lived 405. Not only does my 405 have no holes on the cross slide extension, it has no holes where the compound rotates. Here is picture of my cross slide: http://home.comcast.net/~boergertt/sb405/405-24.jpg Tom --- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Jim B." <eeengineer@...> wrote: http://finance.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe2/photos/brows e/ c73a? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/9rHolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> -- Web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/ More pix: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/ Newbie guide: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SouthBendLathePix/ Files area FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/files/SouthBendLatheFAQ.html Post: mailto:southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com Email Moderators: mailto:southbendlathe-owner@yahoogroups.com * * * * * Manage your subscription by sending a blank message as follows: Unsubscribe: southbendlathe-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Stop delivery: southbendlathe-nomail@yahoogroups.com Daily digest mode: southbendlathe-digest@yahoogroups.com Individual emails: southbendlathe-normal@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums & communities. Links
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Re: Cross slide adjustment full gib
ALAN WHEATLEY
Dennis
My Heavy 10 had this "adjustment" problem with its cross slide, and unequal wear was the cause.
I was nervous of touching the faces of the vee with a scraper because I didn't have a proper prismatic straight edge for testing them, and the taper gib strips on my machine (on yours too?) don't allow any cheating when trying to get proper adjustment. I measured the extent of wear between cross slide and saddle by using a bit of feeler strip ground into a slow taper on a sharpening oilstone, and pushing the strip horizontally into the gap and then measuring the thickness of the strip at the point where it stopped. I found that the amount of wear was surprisingly limited (I can't remember any figures). After a lot agonising, I started to believe that scraping a little iron off the horizontal mating faces of the saddle's top surface and the under side of the cross slide was within my ability.
So I tried to do just that -- v e r y c a r e f u l l y -- and found it not only taught me some useful skill in using a scraper, but it also made a real improvement to the free and proper running of the cross slide. I worked in slow stages, taking a little from the end sections of all eight sliding surfaces (but not the vees), frequently re-blueing and testing the surfaces to ensure that all surfaces still worked together and didn't rock. Eventually, I had "eased" less than three inches of iron at each end of slides. For a guide to any future scraping work, I preserved a reference point by not touching the central areas of the slides.
This partial scraping made a lot of improvement in the smooth and even running of the cross slide. And after I had started to feel I had achieved all I was likely to do without causing damage I couldn't fix, I plucked up courage to ease the ends of the vees. The amount of wear on the vees was something I couldn't measure. But when I tackled the ends of them, taking an equal, very small, unknown amount from each end of the four vee surfaces, I found the amount of vee wear was a lot less than the wear on the horizontal surfaces (because the vees are less exposed to dirt?), so less scraping was needed there. And I was really relieved about that !
Today, the cross slide doesn't travel perfectly from end to end, but it is a whole lot better than it used to be, and I can do better work, and work more easily. Some day I'll buy the measuring tools needed to assess what's going on at the sliding faces, and then I'll finish the job properly.
I'm not fooling myself and I don't want to try fooling you. My treatment isn't what a real machine tool re-builder would deliver, but I'm pretty sure I haven't lost any of the lathe's remaining accuracy, and I can now make better use of what the lathe still has -- I couldn't do that if I still had a sloppy cross slide.
Doing things yourself won't be the same as a professional rebuild, but you can improve things, with only a little risk. Work carefully and without hurry, and you'll be blessed with the safety factor inherent in scraping. If something starts to go wrong it's going to happen very slowly because you can only take off the metal very slowly, probably something like a tenth of of a thou at a time. At that rate it's not difficult to keep a constant watch on what's happening, and to ensure you don't overshoot.
Alan
----- Original Message ----
From: dconway00 To: southbendlathe@... Sent: Friday, 23 February, 2007 3:31:08 PM Subject: [southbendlathe] Cross slide adjustment full gib Hi All
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Re: Odd 405 parts?
Tom Boergert
Jim,
Nice looking lathe. Also, nice looking gib screw lock nuts. Those screws are always coming loose on mine. Did I understand that you ran a 10K spindle in your old top-oil headstock? Did it fit with the the 405 cone pulley, thrust washer, etc? I have been considering this to get the more standard 1 1/2 X 8 spindle threads. I read the discussion concerning the holes in the 405 cross slide. Evidently there were variations even in the short-lived 405. Not only does my 405 have no holes on the cross slide extension, it has no holes where the compound rotates. Here is picture of my cross slide: http://home.comcast.net/~boergertt/sb405/405-24.jpg Tom --- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Jim B." <eeengineer@...> wrote: http://finance.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe2/photos/brows e/ c73a?
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Old Lathe
cuda_in_pa <cuda71@...>
Hi again--I was going to say Maybe I could Post a few Pictures of this
and that would help??
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The age of my South bend Lathe???
cuda_in_pa <cuda71@...>
Hi--I Just Joined the Group and My first unknown is actually how Old
of a Lathe I have?? Mine Has the Drive//Clutch Bar ABOVE the Lathe. I actually bolted it to the wall to give it stability but Ive never seen another Lathe like this. All the Ones Ive seen have the drive down on the same plain as the lathe itself--anyone know?? thanks--my email is cuda71@verizon.net
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Back gear eccentric shaft removal
hardtoguess03 <hardtoguess03@...>
On my South Bend 13, I am trying to remove the eccentric shaft that
engages the quill gears. The parts diagram seems to indicate a taper pin holds the lever to shaft. I see a hole on the bottom of the lever which appears to hold a pin, but there's no corresponding hole on the opposite side to tap through. I thought it might be a set screw and did my best to clean it out to see, but I can't believe it's a set screw right now. Has anyone removed this before and if so, how did you do it? Thanks, Eric
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Re: Cross slide adjustment full gib
Clive Foster
Dennis
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
We have been round the "better gib operation" loop fairly recently. Do a search or contact me off line and I'll send you a write up of combined advice given to me by various high quality workers which I have found to be good in practice. Summarising things from the checking new components viewpoint rather than repair old:- 1) The dovetails, both male and female, need to be parallel to close limits and the gib strip should almost completely fill the gap. Barely enough clearance to slide it in is best. 2) The gib needs to seat firmly at the top of the female dovetail along its full length. 3) The gib needs to be straight and of good finish. Although Chinee stuff is notorious for being poor I have seen warped or distorted gibs from normally reliable sources. Presumably hidden material imperfections have been exposed by machining and have surfaced between inspection and delivery. 4) The gib screw holes and corresponding recesses in the gib need to be accurately aligned so that each recess is central on its screw and be positioned on a common centre line running pretty much down the middle of the gib. Some references advise either up a bit or down a bit relative to the centre works better but I'm darned if I can remember which. 5) Ball ended adjusting screws working in conical holes are much better than the usual point in a dimple. From the earlier thread I believe Macmaster (check, I'm on the wrong side of the pond to know) can supply ball ended hex socket screws, the conical seat is easily formed using a common slocombe centre drill. If you care to make a suitable sketch and contemplate the geometry it will be clear that the ball ended screw in conical hole acts to push the top of the gib into the top of the female dovetail with obvious advantages for stability and rigidity. 6) This is a very long and relatively thin gib which should be doweled in place to stop it trying to shuffle back and forth when the slide direction of movement changes. When working with gibs its important to remember that the adjustment tolerances are basically half the thickness of the oil film on the mutually sliding surfaces. Hence careful work is needed to get best results. Errors can only be coped with by opening up clearances until things rattle past the tight spot(s). A most unsatisfactory state of affairs. Fortunately there is nothing terribly difficult about getting excellent results, a bit of care and a bit of thought can do wonders from even the most unpromising starting point. Concerning your apparent narrowing of the dovetails its best to start by making accurate measurements of the width using rollers. To my eye sub thou varaitions are quite visible. Unless measurements show things to be very bad I'd concentrate on getting the gib fitted and working beyond reproach on the known good part of the slides then push back and forth by hand to feel where the slide thinks things are wrong. Then decide whether its actually OK or if it needs attention with either a scraper or a triangualr file modified to have two safe edges. I once applied the full monty gib improvement process to a large machine vice whose dovetail ways looked seriously taper. Bad enough that I didn't bother to measure how badly out. The intention was to use a nicecly fitted gib as a guide to sorting the dovetails but, in practice, things worked just fine as was. Well up to good lathe slide standards. HTH. Clive
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Re: Odd 405 parts?
CAL <cal@...>
Den. You reguested dates and numbers. Just got off
the phone with Marty at Leblond. S# 66921 cat# 415 shipped to Western Auto
store, their dist. in North Dakota July 15 1936. New owner H. L.
Miller
Hope this helps
Cal
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Re: Collet closer disassembly proceedure
JohnW <John.Walker@...>
Bob
I think Chris' point was that the thread protector is used to remove the standard collet sleeve. The standard sleeve has a large flange on the outboard end, as you screw off the thread protector it pushes against the flange and forces the collet sleeve out. You may have a home made sleeve that doesn't have a flange (like mine). Or a dumb question. Isn't there one of the 10" lathes that takes a collet without requiring a sleeve? If so is there a sleeve in place or is that just the standard taper for the 10K? JohnW --- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "imarelicz28" <imarelicz28@...> wrote: had time to do any more with it. I'll try tapping on the back of the
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Re: unfinished castings
Steve Wells
Denny,
these are a master straight edge for cross slide, they will mark 25 x3, is that the size your looking for? http://www.machinerepair.com/scrapers.html Steve --- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Turk" <dennis.turk2@...> wrote: unfinished castings for scraping standards. I know there had been some talkabout cross slides and such but does anyone know of these and who hasthem for sale. After Forrest Addy's class I fee confident that I canmake my own standard flats and dovetail for some of the work I amdoing. keen edge on your scraper. Forrest had a rather crud one he had madebut it worked great. One thing I did find at the class was Biax scrapingthe ones Forrest made and were for sale. Ratshooter told me he isphoto documenting the hone project so expect it in the home shopmachinist magazine in the future. Tim Clarke is his real name and he hasdone several articles for the magazine. The only way we would get himon this list is if I give him a SB lathe. Owe trust me he will begetting several of them when I kick off."-)))))
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Re: Odd 405 parts?
Jim B. <eeengineer@...>
No, Dennis, I am using all 20 DP gearing. I drive off the rocker gear on
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
the reversing assembly that's a 24 tooth 20 DP gear just like the spindle. This allows me to use the 405 Gear chart and the LH screw as normal. When I got the lathe back in 1979 the handwheel was broken and there were no parts. Just the collar with three small stubs. I "Found" the chrome wheel which was off a small Mill, Machined it to fit and its been there ever since. I have never see a "Real" one come up, at least not off a 405. Since there is so much different I am reluctant to try later things. That was also before I knew that the 405 was unique and that there were actually many different models of the 9" lathe. Today I would have looked for a more "Original" solution. "So soon we grow old, So late we grow smart" Old German saying. Yes, the top oilier felts on my head stock were broken and incomplete. I didn't know that and messed up the headstock a bit. My solution was to replace the headstock although it was not that bad and I ran with the 10K spindle in the top oilier headstock for a few months at one time. I have always used the holes for oil, but now that you mention it adding a piece of leather would be a good thing. Now to find a suitable piece of material. Jim B. "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex.... It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction" Albert Einstein/ EF Schumacher (ATCMB)
-----Original Message-----
From: southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Turk Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 12:34 PM To: southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com Subject: [southbendlathe] Re: Odd 405 parts? Hi Jim Say I see that you changed your head stock to a later one with a shifter. Are you using all 18 pitch gears now? I also see a nice bright chrome AAAAAAAAh Atlas hand wheel on your tail stock. Now Jim Jim Jim what are we ever going to do with you."- )))) I see two threaded holes in the extension portion of your cross slide. The one complete 405 lathe I have have exactly the same holes in the same place. You have any knowledge of what they were for? I figured someone in the past had attached a piece of rubber or leather or something to hang off the end of the cross slide ways to keep the chips out of the lead screw. Turk
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Re: unfinished castings
JohnW <John.Walker@...>
Turk
Try http://machinerepair.com/ Are you a member of the Yahoo scraping group? Not very active but a few knowledgeable members. JohnW --- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Turk" <dennis.turk2@...> wrote: unfinished castings for scraping standards. I know there had been some talkabout cross slides and such but does anyone know of these and who hasthem for sale. After Forrest Addy's class I fee confident that I canmake my own standard flats and dovetail for some of the work I amdoing. keen edge on your scraper. Forrest had a rather crud one he had madebut it worked great. One thing I did find at the class was Biax scrapingthe ones Forrest made and were for sale. Ratshooter told me he isphoto documenting the hone project so expect it in the home shopmachinist magazine in the future. Tim Clarke is his real name and he hasdone several articles for the magazine. The only way we would get himon this list is if I give him a SB lathe. Owe trust me he will begetting several of them when I kick off."-)))))
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