Date   

Re: my not so Rusty 'Ol Cross Slide-cross slide lock?

bdmail <bdmail@...>
 

Damn right !


Wow!



Bernie




Dave, your resolution will result in the resurrection of this lathe.  Unless the bed is badly worn, it will be accurate.  Most everything else can be dealt with given your patience and perseverence.  



power cross feed not working (longitudal does)

Paul moruzzi
 

I am in the process of dismantiling my 9" model A to clean everything
up and repaint (probably with POR-15 industrial paint). The only
thing that doesnt work on the lathe is the power cross feed. The
powered longitudal feed does work so the clutch should be OK. I'm
assuming when I get the apron off (I am suffering from 1 stuck apron
screw that is currently soaking) I'll find somthing like a gear that
should be fixed to a shaft no longer fixed.
Any pointers would be appreciated.

A few other questions comments,

Lots of things are somewhat stuck (but no rust so I'm happy) such as
the graduated colar on the crossfeed. I removed the set screw but the
collar doesnt rotate (the handle did come off no problem). Any
tricks? Planning on wraping a piece of inner tube around to protect
it and then trying pliers.

What material should be used to make replacement jaws for a steady
rest? (The jaws in the steady rest are bizaar not pointed as in the
pictures) or are they available cheaply?

The bed has visible wear (slight grove at top of ways). I'm thinking
of learning scraping. Anyone in central MA (Worcester area) willing
to give a lesson?

The more I read the list the more I think I got a steal. I paid $150
for 3 1/2 foot model A (on a very wobbly table that needs to be
replaced) with 3 & 4 jaw chucks, collets, steady rest, dog plate (no
dogs), 4 position carrage stop, and several boxes of tool bits centers
etc, parellels, and a bunch of graduated rods that have tapered ends
(maybe a 135deg included angle) anyone know what these are for?

Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowlege.
Paul
Upton MA


Re: Double Helix Threading

Clive Foster
 

Summarising:-

Offset on thread dial is quickest and prolly best if you have brain fully engaged with lathe set up correctly and know exactly what you are doing.
Reckon it needs practice.

Disengage gears, move chuck by appropriate angle, re-engage and cut thread works well and is simple to do. However you need to be very careful with locking things down and backlash when setting up as its quite easy to end up with the second thread just far enough out not to engage properly.

Setting top slide parallel to work and off-setting the tool is most practical if you need "think breaks". Gotta get the offset calculation right but everything is under your direct control and you have a chance of working back to find the error if it all goes whahooie shaped. If it doesn't fit, it's easy to adjust the second thread in a controlled manner (if you have got the first one right and to depth then the relative error must be on no 2).

As always your best method is the one which suits the way you work and think.

If you are unsure its well worth investing in some sticky backed paper to roll around a suitable size mandrel and substitute a pencil for the cutting tool to clearly show WTHIGO. Best to turn the chuck by hand and use a coarser thread setting. As ever with this sort of exercise "deliberate" mistakes are almost more instructive than getting familiar with the right method.

(30 seconds with my useful stuff box will prove that the pencil'n paper trick is very much "do as I say, not as I do")

Clive


Re: my not so Rusty 'Ol Cross Slide-cross slide lock?

scottimsjr@...
 

Dave, your resolution will result in the resurrection of this lathe.  Unless the bed is badly worn, it will be accurate.  Most everything else can be dealt with given your patience and perseverence. 


Re: my not so Rusty 'Ol Cross Slide-cross slide lock?

Dave
 

?

I meant unscrewing the bushing from the cross slide.

Note that to do this you must be able to either move the slide or spin
the lead screw in the bushing...

...I don't want to be to pessimistic but if you are having this much
trouble disassembling it, it may be past saving...

Ed
Could be past saving for tight tolerance work, but I was reading the
newbie FAQ last night and I notice it is a guide for " ressurecting" a
lathe, as opposed to say, just "restoring one". I think this definitely
falls into the former category. I did get one of the apron screws out,
the other one is still soaking. The Coumpound rest is off.It was loose,
I didn't want to pry anything until I was sure how it was held on there.
I think just more soaking,heat, percussion, and maybe another trip to
the electolyte bath, maybe not so much amperage this time.
Part of the headstock is turning freely, the Quill gear, just from
frequent oiling.
The bushing seems frozen in there, but with the compound rest off, I
can get oil in behind everything now.
Thanks again for all the help, knowing how it comes apart makes a BIG
difference. I'll try and keep these to a minimum, I think that FAQ
reminder might have been pointed in this direction!
Dave


File - Reminder.txt

southbendlathe@...
 

Reminder To All SBL Group Members

The FAQ will answer many of your questions. READ IT FIRST!

All discussion relating to South Bend and similar lathes is welcome: lathes, tooling, methods of work, repair, restoration, projects, the saving of SBL by LeBlond, where you found your old SBL, when you first started working with one of these beasts, etc.

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Re: more shop tips

bdmail <bdmail@...>
 

Wow, thanks Ron!


Bernie





    There are other methods of surface-treating against rust.The first
of which IS rust!Remember the old 'Brown Bess' muskets of the
Revolution?They got their name for the surface treatment that kept most
'Yankee rust' off them.If you take any knife with some carbon in it,and
dip it in water,you'll note how a tiny bit of surface rust forms on it
in about 5 hours.If you wipe off the water and examine it,you'll have a
slight coloration on it.It is this same surface that forms on anything
old made of iron or steel.My antique tools all have this browning on
them.I will make a tool,polish it,then do a slow browning on it,wiping
off the excess oxide and let the dew-point in the shop apply the next
layer if you will.When I get enough of a color,I wipe it with light oil
and call it done.
    The other way to do it is the oil oxide trick.I'll take a torch to
some new tool I just finished making,(like triangles or a planer gage)
and remove all dirt and finger prints with alcohol.Then tie a wire on
them.If I'm looking for pretty,I play the flame on the metal and watch
for the purple to show up.Once I get the play of color I want,I let it
cool and just keep it oiled.For a more durable finish,I'll let it get
good and hot,(but below the draw temp.) and plunge it in old crank case
oil.It will come out nice and black.I wipe it off with clean oil.
    I have tools I made 30 years ago that still have their original
finish.The key to all of this is to use what nature does anyway.Heat
will blacken iron.Oil and slow oxidation will slowly layer a finish on
metal.Applying light oil to the metal controls this process.With some
time and patience,your tools will acquire that 'old world' finish on
them even though they were made yesterday!That dark gun-metal gray you
find on your grand dads micrometers is nothing more then tender-loving care.
   Some guys put mothballs in their tool chests or camphor to chase
rust.It does do the trick if you use light oil on the tools.(Also keeps
Mothera from eating the steel)!:-)
    regards, Ron



Re: help on flat belt for south bend 9 inch

kyud8 <kyud8@...>
 

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "acetate2003" <acetate2003@y...>
wrote:
i need a belt how long are they and were do i get on are how can i
make one up were do i get belt making material
Idont know if this might help you or somebody but the lathe I found
had had the belt replaced. They had took a timing belt and cut all the
cogs off the inside. Seems to work fine to me. Mark


Re: gear setup

kyud8 <kyud8@...>
 

Thanks Henry P. I fill stupid for not thinking of that my self. I knew
there had to be somthing simple wrong but I have not played with one
that much. Very greatfull for your advise and knowledge.Mark J.


Re: Double Helix Threading

 

    I have hundreds of those stinkers. The various advice I've had over the years boils down to basically this;
    The smell is mildew. You can kill mildew spores with sunlight and fresh air. Ozone and UV light will do a more complete job, but I think it would also damage the paper. Baking soda soaks up the smell somewhat, but can be messy. What do i do? I buy comic-book storage bags and put them in there. If there's a few that are really smelly, I take them outside and red them on a sunny day, then put them back in the bags. i don't seal the bags but i do fold the top over and hold it there with a strip of cello tape.
    The wife doesn't complain (too much)about the smell any more, just the space they take up and what guests might think of the piles of boxes. The boxes I use come from the supermarket where my wife works and once contained sealed bags of chicken parts. The comic-book ones fit them perfectly but can be expensive. Take a mag with you to the comic store as there are several sizes of bag.
 
                                                                                                                                                                                      Keith

----- Original Message -----
From: Fabien
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:15 PM
Subject: Fw: [southbendlathe] Re: Double Helix Threading

 
----- Original Message -----
From: Max
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [southbendlathe] Re: Double Helix Threading

Hi,
 I was just going over old "Popular Mechanics, Shop Notes 1949" and find the complete article "Multiple Threads" by Sam Brown.
The exact same picture was used in this really good article about 4 pages on "how to" , Spacing with dog on faceplate, Using thread dial, Step by Step example of threading, How to use tap, Setting thread with compound etc.
Oh by the way this "Popular Mechanic" is older than me for sure, I get it from the old man shop... any of you guys have a trick to get rid of the basement smell(humidity) from old book ...I already try fleeze and fresh air.
 
Have nice Sunday
Max (Fabien)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [southbendlathe] Re: Double Helix Threading

Hope attached file helps everybody.
Regards
Capipio
 
----- Original Message -----
From: azbruno
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: [southbendlathe] Re: Double Helix Threading

Depending on the TPI of the leadscrew, the tooth count of the gear on
the threading dial, and the TPI of the threads to be cut, it may be
possible to manage multiple leads by different markings on the
threading dial.

I do 4 lead 36 TPI threads on my Atlas machine. I set up the gearing
for 9 TPI. The leadscrew is 16 TPI and the threading dial has 16 teeth -
- therefore each rotation of the thread dial is one inch of carriage
traversal. Each helix is therefore marked by each of the four markings
on the thread dial.

Your mileage may vary.

-Bruno





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Fw: Re: Double Helix Threading

Fabien <poirierf@...>
 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: Max
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [southbendlathe] Re: Double Helix Threading

Hi,
 I was just going over old "Popular Mechanics, Shop Notes 1949" and find the complete article "Multiple Threads" by Sam Brown.
The exact same picture was used in this really good article about 4 pages on "how to" , Spacing with dog on faceplate, Using thread dial, Step by Step example of threading, How to use tap, Setting thread with compound etc.
Oh by the way this "Popular Mechanic" is older than me for sure, I get it from the old man shop... any of you guys have a trick to get rid of the basement smell(humidity) from old book ...I already try fleeze and fresh air.
 
Have nice Sunday
Max (Fabien)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [southbendlathe] Re: Double Helix Threading

Hope attached file helps everybody.
Regards
Capipio
 
----- Original Message -----
From: azbruno
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: [southbendlathe] Re: Double Helix Threading

Depending on the TPI of the leadscrew, the tooth count of the gear on
the threading dial, and the TPI of the threads to be cut, it may be
possible to manage multiple leads by different markings on the
threading dial.

I do 4 lead 36 TPI threads on my Atlas machine. I set up the gearing
for 9 TPI. The leadscrew is 16 TPI and the threading dial has 16 teeth -
- therefore each rotation of the thread dial is one inch of carriage
traversal. Each helix is therefore marked by each of the four markings
on the thread dial.

Your mileage may vary.

-Bruno





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Re: my not so Rusty 'Ol Cross Slide-cross slide lock?

Dave
 

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, Ed Beers <sreeb@b...> wrote:
Dave,

First apply more kroil...

No lock.

Have you managed to remove the lead screw for the compound? >
Ed
Have not gotten the lead screw out. I assume you mean the screw
holding the ball crank onto the cross-feed screw, and not the cross-
feed screw itself? I only have the Army manual to reference here so I
am not being a stickler for terminology, I just want to make sure I
understand exactly what you're talking about.( I haven't been able to
acces the newbie guide until just now. Kept coming up as file
translation error or something)
I think I know where the problem is now though. Probably the
bushing and the dial are frozen together and frozen into the slide
itself. More soaking.

I did get the swivel lock nuts out. The pins are still in there
though. I did manage to get a few of the screws out after I ground a
few screwdrivers for a tight fit. Thanks for that tip, made all the
difference( now I know what I was saving all those old screwdrivers
for:) )

Thanks very much for all the help! I have a pretty good idea what
to focus on now. I didn't want to force anything, just kept looking
for those lock nuts. So what keeps the cross slide and rest from
moving when you're cutting something?


MUCH THANKS!!
Dave


Re: my not so Rusty 'Ol Cross Slide-cross slide lock?

ed beers
 

On Sun, 2005-05-01 at 22:51 +0000, Dave wrote:
--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, Ed Beers <sreeb@b...> wrote:
Dave,

First apply more kroil...

No lock.

Have you managed to remove the lead screw for the compound? >
Ed
Have not gotten the lead screw out. I assume you mean the screw
holding the ball crank onto the cross-feed screw, and not the cross-
feed screw itself?
I meant unscrewing the bushing from the cross slide.

Note that to do this you must be able to either move the slide or spin
the lead screw in the bushing.

Have you been able to remove the oiling screws on the cross slide? More
penetrating oil.

I don't want to be to pessimistic but if you are having this much
trouble disassembling it, it may be past saving...

Ed

I only have the Army manual to reference here so I
am not being a stickler for terminology, I just want to make sure I
understand exactly what you're talking about.( I haven't been able to
acces the newbie guide until just now. Kept coming up as file
translation error or something)
I think I know where the problem is now though. Probably the
bushing and the dial are frozen together and frozen into the slide
itself. More soaking.

I did get the swivel lock nuts out. The pins are still in there
though. I did manage to get a few of the screws out after I ground a
few screwdrivers for a tight fit. Thanks for that tip, made all the
difference( now I know what I was saving all those old screwdrivers
for:) )

Thanks very much for all the help! I have a pretty good idea what
to focus on now. I didn't want to force anything, just kept looking
for those lock nuts. So what keeps the cross slide and rest from
moving when you're cutting something?
The lead screws/nuts.


MUCH THANKS!!
Dave





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Re: Help: 10L Motor Pulley Question

Joe R
 

My 1942 10L on your style cabinet gas a 2 step motor pulley. On is 2" as most agree and the second is 3 3/8ths inches. Hope this helps
Joe R.

----- Original Message -----
From: "youngcj3" <youngcj@ijntb.net>
To: <southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 12:32 AM
Subject: [southbendlathe] Help: 10L Motor Pulley Question


Refurbishing a SB 10L, it is the steel cabinet type with the 180
degree bent pipe legs.

The motor has a 2 "V" pulley, but the intermediate pulley has 2
flats. This is the way the owner (since '54) has been running it.

MMmmm, wondering if this is correct (anyone else have this set up)???

If anyone does, please check to see if your motor pulley is the flat
type or "V" type. If it's a flat type, could you get the od's and
drop me a note.

Thanks -- carl









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Re: for billy -Help: 10L Motor Pulley Question

youngcj3 <youngcj@...>
 

Sorry, no on the extra tailstock.

When I disassembled my apron, I took a generous amount of pics.
Can't seem to find enough space in the files or photos to upload. I
even made notes on the routing and the oil res. cover was off.

Carl

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "bsit89" <bsit89@y...> wrote:
Carl,

Mine is a 1963 10L on a cabinet. It has a 2 "V" pulley on the
motor,
and a 2 step flat intermediate pulley, just like what you describe.

It looks like that's correct according to the parts manual, too.
I've seen several on ebay, with closeups, and they were all like
this.

By the way, I added some updated files to the 10K site with some
apron wicking directions I received from someone, with pictures.
I've added notes to the pictures, and uploaded my own Apron
instructions (3 pages), if you are interested. If you see any
problems with it, let me know and I'll update it again.

You wouldn't happen to have an extra tailstock would you?

Thanks,
Billy

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "youngcj3" <youngcj@i...>
wrote:
Refurbishing a SB 10L, it is the steel cabinet type with the 180
degree bent pipe legs.

The motor has a 2 "V" pulley, but the intermediate pulley has 2
flats. This is the way the owner (since '54) has been running
it.

MMmmm, wondering if this is correct (anyone else have this set
up)???

If anyone does, please check to see if your motor pulley is the
flat
type or "V" type. If it's a flat type, could you get the od's
and
drop me a note.

Thanks -- carl


Re: Material for Intake valve guide

Alex <flyboy145@...>
 

Thanks to all who responded to my post. I'm glad I asked - I never knew cast iron was used for valve guides. I was expecting a type of brass/bronze. I took it apart a while ago, I'll do that again here to find out the material for the guide and valve wear. 
 
Thanks!!!
 
Alex
 
 

a few suggestions

1. read up on valves and guides. there are various materials and
clearances used for certain types. the guide material is matched to the
use, the valve stem, the oil, operating temperature, and whether there
is an oil seal on it

2. see if the stems are worn more than a few tenths, if so you may need
to regrind and polish them ( using the toolpost grinder unless you can
get this done elsewhere.) or the new guide can be quickly worn also.
these seldom wear the same at both ends of the travel or the guide so
their fit on a new guide is seldom good at all points

3. new guides and valves can probably be cut down from existing new
parts. try going to an engine rebuild shop with your oldies and match
the sizes as close as possible. make sure the guide matches the valve.
then go to work on making these parts fit the existing guide hole and
valve seat. you should wind up with a new-parts fit and wear life. make
sure you get the fit correct on the guide - usually smooth surface but
an interference fit in the hole

4. some air cooled engines run higher internal temps than water cooled
and consequently have larger allowance in some places for thermal
expansion and certain materials used. make sure you understand the
clearances before you proceed

good luck, lets see it when you are done with the parts



Re: my not so Rusty 'Ol Cross Slide-cross slide lock?

ed beers
 

Dave,

First apply more kroil...

No lock.

There is a gib that takes out the slack on the dovetail. IIRC you have
9 and this is adjusted via set screws on the side of the compound. If
you can remove the set screws, you should be able to force the gib out
with a punch.

Have you managed to remove the lead screw for the compound? You should
be able to unscrew the entire dial assemble from the compound. A strap
wrench would help. Note that the lead screw must not be frozen to do
this since the dials mounting threads and lead screw have different
pitches.

Ed

On Sun, 2005-05-01 at 02:03, Dave wrote:
Good morning.
The saddle-apron-cross slide assembly is out of the electrolyte
bath, and on the surface anyway, is quite rust free! The cross slide
is
still frozen on the compound rest and on the saddle. While I was
trying
to free up the compound rest swivel-I found the two allen head lock
screws that keep it in place, loosened them, and with a few taps of a
hammer, loosened and lubed and it swivels freely.
There must be some kind of locking mechanism on the compound rest
to keep it from sliding on the swivel and a lock on the on the base
too, right? It's difficult to tell from the parts diagram in the Army
manual,but it looks like the screw on top of the compound rest base
bears down on the cross-feed screw and that locks it in place on the
saddle, or the screw in the graduated collar?
I don't see anything on the compound rest except a screw on the
collar.But it seems to me that the screw in the collar must be there
to
zero it or adjust it so I'm utterly confused here.
Can anybody direct me to a better exploded parts view with a
little
better explanation - like cross-feed travel locking nut maybe?:)
Dave





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Re: my not so Rusty 'Ol Cross Slide-cross slide lock?

gorvil
 

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dkirk_4@y...> wrote:
Good morning.
The saddle-apron-cross slide assembly is out of the
electrolyte
bath, and on the surface anyway, is quite rust free! The cross
slide is
still frozen on the compound rest and on the saddle. While I was
trying
to free up the compound rest swivel-I found the two allen head
lock
screws that keep it in place, loosened them, and with a few taps
of a
hammer, loosened and lubed and it swivels freely.
These two screws ride on two pins with angled ends that clamp the
inverted cone shaped mounting spud of the compound. This is all
that holds the compound on the carriage. You will have to unscrew
them quite a ways for the pins to clear the wide part of the cone to
completely remove the compound.




There must be some kind of locking mechanism on the compound
rest
to keep it from sliding on the swivel and a lock on the on the
base
too, right? It's difficult to tell from the parts diagram in the
Army
manual,but it looks like the screw on top of the compound rest
base
bears down on the cross-feed screw and that locks it in place on
the
saddle, or the screw in the graduated collar?
I don't see anything on the compound rest except a screw on the
collar.But it seems to me that the screw in the collar must be
there to
zero it or adjust it so I'm utterly confused here.
Can anybody direct me to a better exploded parts view with a
little
better explanation - like cross-feed travel locking nut maybe?:)
Dave


Re: Double Helix Threading

 

    Reading this thread (no pun intended) has me looking back through some of my old school texts. So far the best one has been 'Technology of Machine Tools, 4th Ed.'. It has a section on cutting multiple-lead threads. The advice there states this;
 
  ' Double-start threads with an odd-numbered lead may be cut using the thread-chasing dial.'
 
            1. Take one cut on the thread by engaging the split nut at a numbered line on the dial.
             2. Without changing the depth of cut, take another cut at an unnumbered line on the chasing dial.
             3. Continue cutting the thread to depth, taking two passes (one on a numbered line, the other on an unnumbered line) for every depth-of-cut setting.'
 
        This is a very good book and there is way more information in there on this subject than I can relate here without scanning.
 
                                                                        Keith
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: azbruno
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:43 PM
Subject: [southbendlathe] Re: Double Helix Threading

Depending on the TPI of the leadscrew, the tooth count of the gear on
the threading dial, and the TPI of the threads to be cut, it may be
possible to manage multiple leads by different markings on the
threading dial.

I do 4 lead 36 TPI threads on my Atlas machine. I set up the gearing
for 9 TPI. The leadscrew is 16 TPI and the threading dial has 16 teeth -
- therefore each rotation of the thread dial is one inch of carriage
traversal. Each helix is therefore marked by each of the four markings
on the thread dial.

Your mileage may vary.

-Bruno





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Re: Help: 10L Motor Pulley Question

kc1fp
 

That is correct, it takes a size B Vee belt. JP

--- In southbendlathe@yahoogroups.com, "youngcj3" <youngcj@i...> wrote:
Refurbishing a SB 10L, it is the steel cabinet type with the 180
degree bent pipe legs.

The motor has a 2 "V" pulley, but the intermediate pulley has 2
flats. This is the way the owner (since '54) has been running it.

MMmmm, wondering if this is correct (anyone else have this set up)???

If anyone does, please check to see if your motor pulley is the flat
type or "V" type. If it's a flat type, could you get the od's and
drop me a note.

Thanks -- carl

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