Date   

Re: Hall Effect Tach on SB 9"

Chipbreaker13
 

I had the same problem on a similar unit I purchased from Amazon. I tried al types of adjustments, checking wiring, etc. My fix was to use a better magnet. The magnet that come with mine seemed fine but in hindsight was relatively weak. I had another magnet that was a tiny bit bigger and thicker that was laying around and I used it and it worked like a charm.  


Re: Hall Effect Tach on SB 9"

Mike Poore
 

Thanks for the replies. I used cat5 cable for the VFD controls. The magnet will only work in one direction. I get nothing when it is reversed. The power supply is from an old PC peripheral running at 12v. It is not a wall wart. This is a replacement unit. I returned the first. The sensor has an LED that blinks. I have watched it at 60 rpm and it does not appear to be blink more than one per second even when the display jumps for 60 to 300 to 1100 and back to 60. The numbers are just estimates. It sort of works if you wait and use the lowest number, but it gets worse the faster the rpm. Yes, I could use the VFD tach feature and/or I could make a chart for the belt ranges and hertz, but the VFD is back against the wall behind the lathe in an inconvenient and unsafe place near the belts. The tach is right by the controls on the front of the lathe where it is easy to see. The cabling runs by the motor because it is inconspicuous.

If the power cable is picking up interference from the 3ph motor, would a ferrite filter solve the problem or do I need to use metal shielding? What about a bridge rectifier? My electronics knowledge is obviously limited. I have been messing with this for a week and it is time to fix it or give up.

On 6/22/2022 11:10 PM, Mike Poore via groups.io wrote:
Has anyone successfully installed a hall effect tach on a SB 9"? Specifically the one pictured below. My install has been giving me fits with the rpm jumping all over the place. I have tried several different things to eliminate whatever noise is causing the problem, but so far nothing is 100% successful. The sensor is really well shielded. I guess it has to be the power supply, so that's my next avenue of experimentation. FYI: The tach was to help me dial in the rpm of the VFD. I am using a separate power supply and I have already returned one tach thinking it was bad. Just writing this made me think that I may have the power cable too close to the motor. I have some of those ferrite filters. Maybe I will try one on the power cable. Any thoughts on a possible solution?



Re: Hall Effect Tach on SB 9"

John Byghtn3
 

Some of these are sensitive to whether the "NORTH or "SOUTH" pole of the magnet points towards the sensor. 
Have you tried reversing the magnet? Use a compass to figure which way it is pointing and switch it around.

Good Luck!

On 6/22/2022 11:10 PM, Mike Poore wrote:
Has anyone successfully installed a hall effect tach on a SB 9"? Specifically the one pictured below. My install has been giving me fits with the rpm jumping all over the place. I have tried several different things to eliminate whatever noise is causing the problem, but so far nothing is 100% successful. The sensor is really well shielded. I guess it has to be the power supply, so that's my next avenue of experimentation. FYI: The tach was to help me dial in the rpm of the VFD. I am using a separate power supply and I have already returned one tach thinking it was bad. Just writing this made me think that I may have the power cable too close to the motor. I have some of those ferrite filters. Maybe I will try one on the power cable. Any thoughts on a possible solution?



Re: Hall Effect Tach on SB 9"

harry molwitz
 

Probably a bad unit.  Best to send it back.


Harry

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 8:25 AM Joe <joeshomeworkshop@...> wrote:
Not what your're looking for, but be aware that most, if not all VFDs, can provide a tach readout. All that's needed is the gear ratio for your lathe. The only down side is if you change pulley position the ratio must be also changed, but this only requires a few key strokes. I keep a table near my VFD that I created in Excel for convenience.

Joe


Re: Hall Effect Tach on SB 9"

Joe
 

Not what your're looking for, but be aware that most, if not all VFDs, can provide a tach readout. All that's needed is the gear ratio for your lathe. The only down side is if you change pulley position the ratio must be also changed, but this only requires a few key strokes. I keep a table near my VFD that I created in Excel for convenience.

Joe


Re: Hall Effect Tach on SB 9"

Rick
 

While I don’t have that tachometer on my SB 9, I do have one on my SB 13 and Millrite mill. They are usually rock steady, but once in a while the rpm will jump for 1 second and then go right back to steady.  Not a problem for me, and all I use is a $5 eBay wall wart power supply.  Both of these machines are also running a VFD.  I used twisted pair, shielded wire to mount the Vfd controls, as this is recommended for interference suppression.


Re: Hall Effect Tach on SB 9"

mike allen
 

        You might see if the power supply is regulated . All the un-regulated wall warts Ive seen had incredibly dirty power

        animal

On 6/22/2022 8:10 PM, Mike Poore wrote:
Has anyone successfully installed a hall effect tach on a SB 9"? Specifically the one pictured below. My install has been giving me fits with the rpm jumping all over the place. I have tried several different things to eliminate whatever noise is causing the problem, but so far nothing is 100% successful. The sensor is really well shielded. I guess it has to be the power supply, so that's my next avenue of experimentation. FYI: The tach was to help me dial in the rpm of the VFD. I am using a separate power supply and I have already returned one tach thinking it was bad. Just writing this made me think that I may have the power cable too close to the motor. I have some of those ferrite filters. Maybe I will try one on the power cable. Any thoughts on a possible solution?


Hall Effect Tach on SB 9"

Mike Poore
 

Has anyone successfully installed a hall effect tach on a SB 9"? Specifically the one pictured below. My install has been giving me fits with the rpm jumping all over the place. I have tried several different things to eliminate whatever noise is causing the problem, but so far nothing is 100% successful. The sensor is really well shielded. I guess it has to be the power supply, so that's my next avenue of experimentation. FYI: The tach was to help me dial in the rpm of the VFD. I am using a separate power supply and I have already returned one tach thinking it was bad. Just writing this made me think that I may have the power cable too close to the motor. I have some of those ferrite filters. Maybe I will try one on the power cable. Any thoughts on a possible solution?


Cast Iron legs FS

mike allen
 

As the story go's , not mine just passing on

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/cast-iron-legs-several.403418/

        animal


Re: SouthBendLathe For Sale

Payson
 

Thanks for the offer Ron. I've asked around but not had any positive feedback. I have a friend in Waltham with a used tool store. Maybe you know him. If that's an option, he's Andy at Tool Shed. I should think you can find a buyer at that price. Boston Craigslist only has a Jet, for $2850.

Good luck,

Payson. 


Re: SouthBendLathe For Sale

Ron Pare
 

Let me know if you want to come and see it.

Ron

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Payson
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 2:04 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] SouthBendLathe For Sale

 

I'm real close, in Woburn. Wow. I paid $600 for my 10K in the early 80s. I'm asking a few friends.

Payson.


Re: SouthBendLathe For Sale

Payson
 

I'm real close, in Woburn. Wow. I paid $600 for my 10K in the early 80s. I'm asking a few friends.

Payson.


Re: SouthBendLathe For Sale

john kling
 

This lathe looks a little beefier then the workshop model A lathe. Is it from heavy 10 and heavy 9 linage?

On Sunday, June 5, 2022, 06:55:25 PM EDT, jordie Field <jordie.field19@...> wrote:


Thank you….I am from Chicago so it is a little far…..a few weeks ago my daughter just had her grad ceremony from Smith college….that could of worked out…


On Jun 5, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Ron Pare <rppare@...> wrote:



Here you go.

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andrei
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 10:38 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] SouthBendLathe For Sale

 

Pictures?

 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Ron Pare <rppare@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 10:35:11 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] SouthBendLathe For Sale

 

9 inch South Bend lathe for sale, set up on original “work bench”, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, several face plates, tool posts,  and a fair amount of tooling, 120/240 single phase, good condition, 9x36” tool room model.    $1,000   anirwinw43@...   just north of Boston, MA

100_0833.JPG100_0836.JPG


Re: SouthBendLathe For Sale

jordie Field
 

Thank you….I am from Chicago so it is a little far…..a few weeks ago my daughter just had her grad ceremony from Smith college….that could of worked out…


On Jun 5, 2022, at 11:23 AM, Ron Pare <rppare@...> wrote:



Here you go.

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andrei
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 10:38 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] SouthBendLathe For Sale

 

Pictures?

 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Ron Pare <rppare@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 10:35:11 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] SouthBendLathe For Sale

 

9 inch South Bend lathe for sale, set up on original “work bench”, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, several face plates, tool posts,  and a fair amount of tooling, 120/240 single phase, good condition, 9x36” tool room model.    $1,000   anirwinw43@...   just north of Boston, MA

100_0833.JPG100_0836.JPG


Re: RIP. SB 9B!

mike allen
 

        Well best of luck yo . I worry about my batteries in a fire also . Hopefully I won't ever have to experience that , though we had 3 cars fully packed for a month or so last year due to the

        Dixie Fire . We could see the flames from the top of our driveway . Has your insurance company finalized what they will do with the lathe ? I am thinking about doing something to

        make the footprint a bit smaller for my drive unit . Actually its not the footprint , it's how far the large pulley over hangs the back of the unit .

        animal

On 6/5/2022 11:09 AM, william twombley wrote:

      Thanks. “ animal”
My “Grey Ghost” will come to my new shop and. I will give it a “Shot.   I started with a really superb Bed.  Refurbished over 8 years to fine working. Condition.      As long as the. Bed is straight,  i’m willing to Go at it.    It was in. Top running condition.  This time,  i leveled it using my “master Level and    Straight turning with the Er40 collets is”no Fuss”. easy!

 i will remember to  put the V-Rib. Belt on it this time.  My only issue was the Horizontal drive .   I have used it side by side with a  mini Lathe.  The SB for big stuff and  the mini. For the fiddly stuff. 

  My motivation has been low. PTS,  i suppose! I’ve got plenty of. Bench space in the new shop,  so. it has a home.  I used a clapped out C model for 30 years,  till the. Headstock Died.  i Added. A powered apron and. Direct reading dials.   Looks like 3. Variations of Crossfeed screws in these over the years.  I have a short stem” one ,so. I made an extension to  fit the dial and thrust bearing and handle.  Easy. Peasy….     Scratched my head a lot there to make it all “jive”.    10 K. Compound with a Sb9 base casting,  was a straight up fit for center height.  I really have not ventured into the shop as My Battery bank may have released a lot of lead.  I have hazmat suits and respirators on hand.     I like the feel and simplicity. of a well tuned. SB 9.   My benchtop was  Laminated butcher block maple. And. Once set”. It stayed “True. Level and. Test Bar results stayed dead stable, literally for Years. Becase of  humidity Variations. I might see as much  as 5 tenths taper in 12”.  “Sweep”the Bed with the master level on the crosslide and no Twist at all!   Like a long term relation ship. Or aged wine.  Smooth and easy!   3 phase motor  and VFD from here! And that nice T Slot casting from MLA.  The one mod not done, yet!! let the games commence!  Finding my Loco Projects will. Take  some  sifting for the 21/2” and 71/2” gauge bits.  The cast iron stuff if not broken should be Ok!  Generic Machine tool grey as it was before, for me!  Finding my near perfect Halfnuts might be an issue but, i prefer the Slotted apron drive anyway! 


 thanks again!
Twombo


Re: RIP. SB 9B!

william twombley
 

      Thanks. “ animal”
My “Grey Ghost” will come to my new shop and. I will give it a “Shot.   I started with a really superb Bed.  Refurbished over 8 years to fine working. Condition.      As long as the. Bed is straight,  i’m willing to Go at it.    It was in. Top running condition.  This time,  i leveled it using my “master Level and    Straight turning with the Er40 collets is”no Fuss”. easy!

 i will remember to  put the V-Rib. Belt on it this time.  My only issue was the Horizontal drive .   I have used it side by side with a  mini Lathe.  The SB for big stuff and  the mini. For the fiddly stuff. 

  My motivation has been low. PTS,  i suppose! I’ve got plenty of. Bench space in the new shop,  so. it has a home.  I used a clapped out C model for 30 years,  till the. Headstock Died.  i Added. A powered apron and. Direct reading dials.   Looks like 3. Variations of Crossfeed screws in these over the years.  I have a short stem” one ,so. I made an extension to  fit the dial and thrust bearing and handle.  Easy. Peasy….     Scratched my head a lot there to make it all “jive”.    10 K. Compound with a Sb9 base casting,  was a straight up fit for center height.  I really have not ventured into the shop as My Battery bank may have released a lot of lead.  I have hazmat suits and respirators on hand.     I like the feel and simplicity. of a well tuned. SB 9.   My benchtop was  Laminated butcher block maple. And. Once set”. It stayed “True. Level and. Test Bar results stayed dead stable, literally for Years. Becase of  humidity Variations. I might see as much  as 5 tenths taper in 12”.  “Sweep”the Bed with the master level on the crosslide and no Twist at all!   Like a long term relation ship. Or aged wine.  Smooth and easy!   3 phase motor  and VFD from here! And that nice T Slot casting from MLA.  The one mod not done, yet!! let the games commence!  Finding my Loco Projects will. Take  some  sifting for the 21/2” and 71/2” gauge bits.  The cast iron stuff if not broken should be Ok!  Generic Machine tool grey as it was before, for me!  Finding my near perfect Halfnuts might be an issue but, i prefer the Slotted apron drive anyway! 


 thanks again!
Twombo


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Bill in OKC too
 

I was having a problem with that, too, but I think he missed the photo of the MT3 taper in the spindle adapter. Just sent the link to him a moment ago. 

We're using text & photos that have no way of replicating an actual show & tell at the machine. It's just a bit harder to communicate, and miss one word, get one typo, or lose a photo and you can lose all context.

Bill in OKC up

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Sunday, June 5, 2022, 08:54:17 AM CDT, Davis Johnson <davis@...> wrote:


I'm really not getting this argument. Shouldn't it fit both ends and everywhere in between and a little beyond is ok?

And how could anything other than putting it in small end first ever work?

On 6/5/22 07:49, Bill in OKC too via groups.io wrote:
That's funny. I get the impression you missed the point of why you would. I will point out one more time that the adapter and centers I photographed are all FACTORY products. The small end is also the end that goes in to the FACTORY spindle adapter. Have a good day.

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 11:43:20 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


Sorry but you have missed the reasons why normally one would not make the adapter sleeve fit the small end of a Morse Taper as you previously suggested.  I am not interested in going out on a new tangent topic. Have a good day.


On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 11:29:03 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


And sometimes you need more bearing area to hold your piece between centers to work it. Larger center with a deeper center hole from a larger center drill will give you that. If you need the smaller center, use a different spindle adapter that takes smaller centers. Let's you use a smaller center drill, too. 

And if you need a full size center to the size of the spindle taper, they make MT5 spindle centers, tough a 9" SB won't need them. Nory 10L. But a 15" or larger SB (or other brand lathe) might.

Depends on what you need, and what you have. More options gives you more versatility, most of the time. And there are ways to give a dog driver more reach. Zillions of old books at archive.org if you want to read about it. 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 07:48:29 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


Bill
You can hold a rotating object better with 2 hands rather than one.  The more surface contact offered by boring to the larger diameter of the sleeve offers the same principle of griping power.  Sometimes rather than a center you could be using a cutting tool in the taper that requires gripping power.  Examples would be boring something attached to the cross slide or using as a drill press against tail stock.

Another issue was sticking out to far using the small diameter.  Another user pointed out that if your out to far dogs dont reach.  Using your body again as an example you have less control holding something at arms length than you do close to your body.  Same with the lathe there is more control and accuracy closer to the spindle bearing.

The 3rd reason for wanting the shorter configuration is maximizing the length of material that will fit in the lathe.

I might want a long center if I was leaving my chuck on for some reason but otherwise I would probably want something short for the above mentioned reasons.


On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 07:51:59 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Not saying you shouldn't, but all of these items are factory stock. None of it is home-made. Unless you make all your own, this is about what you're going to get. Both of the ones in the photo I attached earlier are factory-made carbide-tipped centers, and both of mine need reground. I hope someday to either find or build a decent toolpost grinder so I can true them.  I do have a couple of new centers. There is also a standard for stub centers, but I didn't actually look at it, and haven't actually seen any IRL or online. 

Except that the 7x mini-lathes use a shortened MT2 tailstock center. Don't know if they conform to the standard, as I traded mine off for a couple of Unimats a while back. 

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 12:33:27 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I prefer to use the largest diameter possible to have the most grip in a taper.  I also prefer to keep things as close as possible to the spindle (least overhang), to reduce stress and amplification of a mounting run out error.  The added benefit is it gives you the greatest distance between centers too.  Your preferences and or reasons might differ from mine.  Different applications can justify different setups.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:39:07 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Just sent the photo. It should make things clear. The adapter barely protrudes from the spindle. Mine is 3.25" long. The Morse taper sockets are 3-7/8" & 4-1/8" long according to the table I am looking at. Shank lengths are 3-7/8 & 4-7/8, and my #3 center is 5.1", and the #4 center is 6" long. The adapter is only 3-1/4 " in length, so there is a fair amount of protrusion. Another photo attached, and remember that the spindle adapter has a bit of protrusion, itself. About 1/8" on mine. Heavy 10L, so YMMV.

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:03:10 AM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I am having trouble with this part of your statement also. "Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end." 

The whole idea of a taper is to hold a tool or adapter.  That includes keeping it from turning within the bore.  The adapter already is only about 1/2 the length of the full taper and has no hold on the tang so why would you size for the small diameter and reduce the holding power even more?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:44:31 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: SouthBendLathe For Sale

jonwoellhaf
 

Beautiful lathe. I wish I were closer (Utah). $1000 is too little, I think. Someone is going to be delighted!
 

From: Ron Pare
Sent: June 5, 2022 08:35
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] SouthBendLathe For Sale
 

9 inch South Bend lathe for sale, set up on original “work bench”, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, several face plates, tool posts,  and a fair amount of tooling, 120/240 single phase, good condition, 9x36” tool room model.    $1,000   anirwinw43@...   just north of Boston, MA


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Bill in OKC too
 

Then you must have missed the last photo I posted, which had the MT3 taper in the the factory spindle adapter.

https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe/photo/0/17384.106421.0?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0 this link worked for me, hope it works for you.

And with that in the spindle, and a faceplate or driver plate installed, there will be very little stick-out. There will be more stickout if you make an adapter for the larger Morse tapers, but larger lathe dogs have longer tails. 

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Sunday, June 5, 2022, 07:35:42 AM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


But none of your pieces in the picture was the shorter South Bend factory adapter that was the subject of this posting.



On Sunday, June 5, 2022 at 06:50:11 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


That's funny. I get the impression you missed the point of why you would. I will point out one more time that the adapter and centers I photographed are all FACTORY products. The small end is also the end that goes in to the FACTORY spindle adapter. Have a good day.

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 11:43:20 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


Sorry but you have missed the reasons why normally one would not make the adapter sleeve fit the small end of a Morse Taper as you previously suggested.  I am not interested in going out on a new tangent topic. Have a good day.


On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 11:29:03 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


And sometimes you need more bearing area to hold your piece between centers to work it. Larger center with a deeper center hole from a larger center drill will give you that. If you need the smaller center, use a different spindle adapter that takes smaller centers. Let's you use a smaller center drill, too. 

And if you need a full size center to the size of the spindle taper, they make MT5 spindle centers, tough a 9" SB won't need them. Nory 10L. But a 15" or larger SB (or other brand lathe) might.

Depends on what you need, and what you have. More options gives you more versatility, most of the time. And there are ways to give a dog driver more reach. Zillions of old books at archive.org if you want to read about it. 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 07:48:29 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


Bill
You can hold a rotating object better with 2 hands rather than one.  The more surface contact offered by boring to the larger diameter of the sleeve offers the same principle of griping power.  Sometimes rather than a center you could be using a cutting tool in the taper that requires gripping power.  Examples would be boring something attached to the cross slide or using as a drill press against tail stock.

Another issue was sticking out to far using the small diameter.  Another user pointed out that if your out to far dogs dont reach.  Using your body again as an example you have less control holding something at arms length than you do close to your body.  Same with the lathe there is more control and accuracy closer to the spindle bearing.

The 3rd reason for wanting the shorter configuration is maximizing the length of material that will fit in the lathe.

I might want a long center if I was leaving my chuck on for some reason but otherwise I would probably want something short for the above mentioned reasons.


On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 07:51:59 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Not saying you shouldn't, but all of these items are factory stock. None of it is home-made. Unless you make all your own, this is about what you're going to get. Both of the ones in the photo I attached earlier are factory-made carbide-tipped centers, and both of mine need reground. I hope someday to either find or build a decent toolpost grinder so I can true them.  I do have a couple of new centers. There is also a standard for stub centers, but I didn't actually look at it, and haven't actually seen any IRL or online. 

Except that the 7x mini-lathes use a shortened MT2 tailstock center. Don't know if they conform to the standard, as I traded mine off for a couple of Unimats a while back. 

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 12:33:27 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I prefer to use the largest diameter possible to have the most grip in a taper.  I also prefer to keep things as close as possible to the spindle (least overhang), to reduce stress and amplification of a mounting run out error.  The added benefit is it gives you the greatest distance between centers too.  Your preferences and or reasons might differ from mine.  Different applications can justify different setups.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:39:07 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Just sent the photo. It should make things clear. The adapter barely protrudes from the spindle. Mine is 3.25" long. The Morse taper sockets are 3-7/8" & 4-1/8" long according to the table I am looking at. Shank lengths are 3-7/8 & 4-7/8, and my #3 center is 5.1", and the #4 center is 6" long. The adapter is only 3-1/4 " in length, so there is a fair amount of protrusion. Another photo attached, and remember that the spindle adapter has a bit of protrusion, itself. About 1/8" on mine. Heavy 10L, so YMMV.

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:03:10 AM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I am having trouble with this part of your statement also. "Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end." 

The whole idea of a taper is to hold a tool or adapter.  That includes keeping it from turning within the bore.  The adapter already is only about 1/2 the length of the full taper and has no hold on the tang so why would you size for the small diameter and reduce the holding power even more?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:44:31 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: SouthBendLathe For Sale

Ron Pare
 

Here you go.

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andrei
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 10:38 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] SouthBendLathe For Sale

 

Pictures?

 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of Ron Pare <rppare@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2022 10:35:11 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] SouthBendLathe For Sale

 

9 inch South Bend lathe for sale, set up on original “work bench”, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, several face plates, tool posts,  and a fair amount of tooling, 120/240 single phase, good condition, 9x36” tool room model.    $1,000   anirwinw43@...   just north of Boston, MA

401 - 420 of 106845