Date   

Re: RIP. SB 9B!

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Given that the Aluminium alloy bench collapsed due to the heat, this suggests that a number of things will have happened to the materials from which the lathe is constructed:


Any hardened or spring steel has been annealed. If one of the machine's virtues was hardened bedways, this no longer applies.


Any component containing built in stresses (castings, welded fabrications) has been stress relieved and has consequently changed shape. Also, any component that was subjected to stress while hot, with the load still in place during cooling, will have changed shape. All press or shrink fits can no longer be relied upon.


Any material such as mild steel, copper (tube?) brass etc. that was subjected to work hardening as part of the design strength or stiffness requirement has been annealed.


Aluminium alloys response to heat is complicated and composition dependant.


All lubricants, wicks and seals have been burned away.


Any "monkey metal" (zinc alloys as typically used for diecasting) have had it. If the composition can be determined, items could be used to narrow the range of temperatures experienced depending on what melted and what didn't.


All electrical insulation can no longer be relied upon, even if it still exists. Given this and bearing damage, the motor is scrap, as is the switchgear.


Fasteners, including rivets, will have lost their preloads as a result of the above. Also, any high strength fasteners have been annealed (see above) so are no longer high strength.


Please forgive me if this comes across as a little rude, but sometimes being be cruel to be kind is the best policy. I really feel for you as the victim of a fire, and hope you have insurance. If a loss adjuster tries to bargain you down, feel free to quote my above opinions. My qualifications are in one of my first posts on this site, or I can re-supply if required.


And people are wittering on about paint? Sorry folks, you couldn't give me this or any part of it, once I knew it had been in a fire. I must regretfully advise that it sounds as though it is a total loss.


Eddie


Re: RIP. SB 9B!

Rogan Creswick
 

I tried an ultrasonic on small parts, and that (using Grime Reaper) didn't help that much -- what did seem to help some what was soaking in un-diluted Grime Reaper for ~24+ hours.  That generally turned the remaining paint to sludge, but not in all cases.

Nothing has worked on the gear train that got a very nice "seasoning" (like a cast iron pan) other than a wire wheel/soda blaster.  I'm just going to leave that polymerized coating as-is, since it doesn't seem like it'll do any harm.

I'm definitely not a traditionalist, and wouldn't call what I'm doing "restoration" by any means.  I just want a working lathe that I like the look of ;)

The hammered paint also has the benefit of going on very smoothly, even with cheap chip brushes and almost no experience painting machines.  I haven't had that kind of success with other paints, and spraying (even with rattle cans) isn't pragmatic for me -- just due to the time and space I have for this sort of project.

--Rogan

On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 10:55 AM mike allen <animal@...> wrote:

               I don't think you will really know what you have there until you get it apart & can start checking parts like the bed , saddle & such for flatness .

Like mentioned , it will be labor intensive . What helped me with my rebuild is that I have a ultrasonic tank that fit everything but the bed, lead screw, rack and the large casting with the

        motor mount . I used the " awesome orange de greaser " from the dollar tree took everything down to bare metal . The headstock I just I soaked but don't remember if I used the ultrasonic .

        I had everything down to bare metal except the bed in a week & then I repainted with the paint recipe off the practical machinist forum . After paint I was back up & running in another

        week . Wear some grungy clothes unless you need new grungy clothes & go for it .

        good luck

        animal

On 6/4/2022 9:01 AM, william twombley wrote:

Any thoughts regarding a SB 9B” that  has gone thru a bad fire.


 It is currently lying in. the ashes where it settled, when the 8020 extrusion. Bench laid it  when the aluminum “ sagged . in the fire.  Valuation? etc.  Or possible Salvage such Items Like the Large dial convesion or sift ashes for “Tooling.  Like collets and chucks.  No water was used in the fire. temps Indicat A very hot Fire.   It is vertainly in a Normallized State!  The machine was built up from as Especiall Fine Bed.  Saddle scarped in and really “Dialed in after 10 years of Effort.  

 cheers!
”Wild Beel” !


Re: RIP. SB 9B!

mike allen
 

               I don't think you will really know what you have there until you get it apart & can start checking parts like the bed , saddle & such for flatness .

Like mentioned , it will be labor intensive . What helped me with my rebuild is that I have a ultrasonic tank that fit everything but the bed, lead screw, rack and the large casting with the

        motor mount . I used the " awesome orange de greaser " from the dollar tree took everything down to bare metal . The headstock I just I soaked but don't remember if I used the ultrasonic .

        I had everything down to bare metal except the bed in a week & then I repainted with the paint recipe off the practical machinist forum . After paint I was back up & running in another

        week . Wear some grungy clothes unless you need new grungy clothes & go for it .

        good luck

        animal

On 6/4/2022 9:01 AM, william twombley wrote:

Any thoughts regarding a SB 9B” that  has gone thru a bad fire.


 It is currently lying in. the ashes where it settled, when the 8020 extrusion. Bench laid it  when the aluminum “ sagged . in the fire.  Valuation? etc.  Or possible Salvage such Items Like the Large dial convesion or sift ashes for “Tooling.  Like collets and chucks.  No water was used in the fire. temps Indicat A very hot Fire.   It is vertainly in a Normallized State!  The machine was built up from as Especiall Fine Bed.  Saddle scarped in and really “Dialed in after 10 years of Effort.  

 cheers!
”Wild Beel” !


Re: RIP. SB 9B!

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

If it were me, I would first evaluate the amount of rust scale that may have
formed on the precision surfaces.  If there isn't an appreciable amount severe
rust or scale, then I would probably tear it apart with the intention of rebuilding
it.  Of course if upon disassembly dire problems are revealed,  then I may
decide to part it out.  It would depend on the costs involved in restoration.

Rogan, my hat is off to you on your resurrection of your 10K.  Your choice of 
color is interesting (silver hammer tone) but I am more of a traditionalist.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: RIP. SB 9B!

Rogan Creswick
 

I'm in the middle of rebuilding a 10k that went through the same sort of thing -- shop burned down, and we pulled it out of the rubble.  It's more work than it's worth, unless you really love the process.  

I started by tearing it apart (almost) completely (there are still a few things I'm struggling to disassemble), cleaning it up enough that I could get some measurements on the bed, and determined that it was still pretty darned flat & planar.  (I don't have the numbers at hand, but if I remember correctly it was only out about 0.005" across the full length of the bed, which is good enough for me).  

Then I spent the next *3-4 years* cleaning castings by hand (off-and-on; it was a slog, and it was really hard to keep motivated so lots of other projects got priority during that time).  I pulled off all the remaining lead paint, scrubbing burnt grease, etc... over the past 6 months I've finally been able to start priming & painting  (primer, flat base coat, and then 2 coats of RustOleum Hammered). I still need to strip, dismantle, and re-paint the tailstock assembly, clean all the gears & internals, and re-assemble with new felts, replace some oil cups, etc..

I would not do this again -- maybe with a much better blasting cabinet, and the means to contain the resulting lead dust, but even then I think I've invested very close to the cost of a nice second-hand lathe in materials and tools specifically for this project.

I'm keeping an on-going log of progress in this album: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNJ8SMQVGaPvnK-ACUyi4ZybfDGiurMADXclkWt9qOKUJ9Rc40XvDn4hrJK3QILcQ?key=RmFuSlFKdjRPRUNuSjU1bnJsZXd4LUg0VG1NcmZB if you want to see how the initial state compares to yours.

If you do decide to go this route, I'm happy to answer any questions that come up (if I can!).

--Rogan

On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 9:01 AM william twombley <twombo@...> wrote:

Any thoughts regarding a SB 9B” that  has gone thru a bad fire.


 It is currently lying in. the ashes where it settled, when the 8020 extrusion. Bench laid it  when the aluminum “ sagged . in the fire.  Valuation? etc.  Or possible Salvage such Items Like the Large dial convesion or sift ashes for “Tooling.  Like collets and chucks.  No water was used in the fire. temps Indicat A very hot Fire.   It is vertainly in a Normallized State!  The machine was built up from as Especiall Fine Bed.  Saddle scarped in and really “Dialed in after 10 years of Effort.  

 cheers!
”Wild Beel” !


RIP. SB 9B!

william twombley
 

Any thoughts regarding a SB 9B” that  has gone thru a bad fire.


 It is currently lying in. the ashes where it settled, when the 8020 extrusion. Bench laid it  when the aluminum “ sagged . in the fire.  Valuation? etc.  Or possible Salvage such Items Like the Large dial convesion or sift ashes for “Tooling.  Like collets and chucks.  No water was used in the fire. temps Indicat A very hot Fire.   It is vertainly in a Normallized State!  The machine was built up from as Especiall Fine Bed.  Saddle scarped in and really “Dialed in after 10 years of Effort.  

 cheers!
”Wild Beel” !


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Bill in OKC too
 

Not saying you shouldn't, but all of these items are factory stock. None of it is home-made. Unless you make all your own, this is about what you're going to get. Both of the ones in the photo I attached earlier are factory-made carbide-tipped centers, and both of mine need reground. I hope someday to either find or build a decent toolpost grinder so I can true them.  I do have a couple of new centers. There is also a standard for stub centers, but I didn't actually look at it, and haven't actually seen any IRL or online. 

Except that the 7x mini-lathes use a shortened MT2 tailstock center. Don't know if they conform to the standard, as I traded mine off for a couple of Unimats a while back. 

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 12:33:27 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I prefer to use the largest diameter possible to have the most grip in a taper.  I also prefer to keep things as close as possible to the spindle (least overhang), to reduce stress and amplification of a mounting run out error.  The added benefit is it gives you the greatest distance between centers too.  Your preferences and or reasons might differ from mine.  Different applications can justify different setups.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:39:07 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Just sent the photo. It should make things clear. The adapter barely protrudes from the spindle. Mine is 3.25" long. The Morse taper sockets are 3-7/8" & 4-1/8" long according to the table I am looking at. Shank lengths are 3-7/8 & 4-7/8, and my #3 center is 5.1", and the #4 center is 6" long. The adapter is only 3-1/4 " in length, so there is a fair amount of protrusion. Another photo attached, and remember that the spindle adapter has a bit of protrusion, itself. About 1/8" on mine. Heavy 10L, so YMMV.

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:03:10 AM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I am having trouble with this part of your statement also. "Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end." 

The whole idea of a taper is to hold a tool or adapter.  That includes keeping it from turning within the bore.  The adapter already is only about 1/2 the length of the full taper and has no hold on the tang so why would you size for the small diameter and reduce the holding power even more?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:44:31 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

ww_big_al
 

I saw it Erik. I thought it was a good call on your part. I would almost be tempted to buy it so I could have her pay return shipping on a item not as advertised. :-)

Al Knack

On Jun 2, 2022, at 9:40 AM, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


Do to the varied level of users on the site, it is best to be direct and blunt or a sheep can easily be lead to slaughter.  Lowering your credibility for that user/buyer in future posts.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:26:49 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


I guess my little "grin" emoji was too subtle...
Just thought folks would find these ebay pictures amusing in light of this thread.
The seller got a note from me pointing out this was just some homemade piece of metal, not a sleeve as advertised. She blew me off and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Erik A

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:09 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Davis Johnson
 

That is fine and good and what I would also recommend if that is all you need. The drawback is that it will stick out farther than necessary and may make it difficult for the tail of a dog reach the slot in the drive plate. There are ways around that.


I do stick other things in the headstock taper. I've been known to borrow the MT2 Jacobs-style chuck for use in the headstock, which makes a MT2 in MT3 adapter sleeve handy.


The adapter sleeve I use is nothing special - get one from any tool dealer.


The think to note is that because the 9A headstock taper is only part of a standard MT3 taper things stick out more than is ideal. A special 9A center or adapter sleeve will solve this. So far it hasn't made enough a problem for me to do something about it.


On 6/2/22 13:35, mike allen wrote:

            You don't really need one , just get a MT3 center & your done .


            animal



On 6/2/2022 5:21 AM, E A wrote:
Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

mike allen
 

            You don't really need one , just get a MT3 center & your done .


            animal



On 6/2/2022 5:21 AM, E A wrote:

Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

I prefer to use the largest diameter possible to have the most grip in a taper.  I also prefer to keep things as close as possible to the spindle (least overhang), to reduce stress and amplification of a mounting run out error.  The added benefit is it gives you the greatest distance between centers too.  Your preferences and or reasons might differ from mine.  Different applications can justify different setups.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:39:07 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Just sent the photo. It should make things clear. The adapter barely protrudes from the spindle. Mine is 3.25" long. The Morse taper sockets are 3-7/8" & 4-1/8" long according to the table I am looking at. Shank lengths are 3-7/8 & 4-7/8, and my #3 center is 5.1", and the #4 center is 6" long. The adapter is only 3-1/4 " in length, so there is a fair amount of protrusion. Another photo attached, and remember that the spindle adapter has a bit of protrusion, itself. About 1/8" on mine. Heavy 10L, so YMMV.

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:03:10 AM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I am having trouble with this part of your statement also. "Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end." 

The whole idea of a taper is to hold a tool or adapter.  That includes keeping it from turning within the bore.  The adapter already is only about 1/2 the length of the full taper and has no hold on the tang so why would you size for the small diameter and reduce the holding power even more?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:44:31 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Bill in OKC too
 

Just sent the photo. It should make things clear. The adapter barely protrudes from the spindle. Mine is 3.25" long. The Morse taper sockets are 3-7/8" & 4-1/8" long according to the table I am looking at. Shank lengths are 3-7/8 & 4-7/8, and my #3 center is 5.1", and the #4 center is 6" long. The adapter is only 3-1/4 " in length, so there is a fair amount of protrusion. Another photo attached, and remember that the spindle adapter has a bit of protrusion, itself. About 1/8" on mine. Heavy 10L, so YMMV.

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 09:03:10 AM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I am having trouble with this part of your statement also. "Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end." 

The whole idea of a taper is to hold a tool or adapter.  That includes keeping it from turning within the bore.  The adapter already is only about 1/2 the length of the full taper and has no hold on the tang so why would you size for the small diameter and reduce the holding power even more?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:44:31 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Bill in OKC too
 

That was long, long ago, and far, far away, and in another universe. There is no telling what errors I might have made, but it's close enough to reasonable that I probably didn't make that particular mistake. I was, at that time, doing the taper project for my class. At least 3 years ago. I think.  Was supposed to be making an MT4 taper for the class but none of my machines at the time had MT4 spindles or tailstocks, unlike now. So I did MT3 tapers, with permission from the instructor. Did well enough on that project I only had to redo it two or three times. ;)

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:48:02 AM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


Did you divide by 2?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:44:31 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

I am having trouble with this part of your statement also. "Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end." 

The whole idea of a taper is to hold a tool or adapter.  That includes keeping it from turning within the bore.  The adapter already is only about 1/2 the length of the full taper and has no hold on the tang so why would you size for the small diameter and reduce the holding power even more?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:44:31 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Bill in OKC too
 

I saw the grin, but hadn't looked at the pictures. ;) And forgot to attach the photo of the MT4 taper &adapter. So here goes on the photo. 

And no. That doesn't look like a factory attachment to me in Eric's photos from e-bay.

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:27:44 AM CDT, Andrei <calciu1@...> wrote:


It did not come out as a grin; just a semi colon a minus and a backslash.

Best Regards,
Andrei D. Calciu
6371 Birch Leaf Court
Burke, VA 22015-3528 USA

mailto:calciu1@...
 
 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of E A <b-arch@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:26 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I guess my little "grin" emoji was too subtle...
Just thought folks would find these ebay pictures amusing in light of this thread.
The seller got a note from me pointing out this was just some homemade piece of metal, not a sleeve as advertised. She blew me off and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Erik A

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:09 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

Did you divide by 2?

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:44:31 AM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Bill in OKC too
 

My adapter for the Heavy 10L is 1-5/8" OD at the big end. It's .940" ID, with a wall thickness of 0.350" An MT 4 taper is 1.195" OD at that point on the taper. That gives you a wall thickness of 0.255", and that's thicker than the wall on my MT3-MT4 taper adapter. Only about 2/3rds of the taper goes into the spindle adapter. It won't be that much bigger than a #3. Remember that the narrow end goes in the adapter, not the large end. 

Found my MT3-MT4 adapter sleeve, wall thickness is 0.170".

I calculated the taper on my adapter some time back. Got  about 0.6148, table I have says an MT4.5 is 0.624. I am assuming I calculated that taper correctly, which is maybe not a good bet. :)

HTH!

Bill in OKC 

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:20:18 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

Do to the varied level of users on the site, it is best to be direct and blunt or a sheep can easily be lead to slaughter.  Lowering your credibility for that user/buyer in future posts.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:26:49 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


I guess my little "grin" emoji was too subtle...
Just thought folks would find these ebay pictures amusing in light of this thread.
The seller got a note from me pointing out this was just some homemade piece of metal, not a sleeve as advertised. She blew me off and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Erik A

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:09 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Andrei
 

It did not come out as a grin; just a semi colon a minus and a backslash.

Best Regards,
Andrei D. Calciu
6371 Birch Leaf Court
Burke, VA 22015-3528 USA

mailto:calciu1@...
 
 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of E A <b-arch@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:26 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I guess my little "grin" emoji was too subtle...
Just thought folks would find these ebay pictures amusing in light of this thread.
The seller got a note from me pointing out this was just some homemade piece of metal, not a sleeve as advertised. She blew me off and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Erik A

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:09 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

E A
 

I guess my little "grin" emoji was too subtle...
Just thought folks would find these ebay pictures amusing in light of this thread.
The seller got a note from me pointing out this was just some homemade piece of metal, not a sleeve as advertised. She blew me off and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Erik A

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:09 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?

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