Date   

Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

Do to the varied level of users on the site, it is best to be direct and blunt or a sheep can easily be lead to slaughter.  Lowering your credibility for that user/buyer in future posts.

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 08:26:49 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


I guess my little "grin" emoji was too subtle...
Just thought folks would find these ebay pictures amusing in light of this thread.
The seller got a note from me pointing out this was just some homemade piece of metal, not a sleeve as advertised. She blew me off and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Erik A

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:09 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Andrei
 

It did not come out as a grin; just a semi colon a minus and a backslash.

Best Regards,
Andrei D. Calciu
6371 Birch Leaf Court
Burke, VA 22015-3528 USA

mailto:calciu1@...
 
 


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of E A <b-arch@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:26 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I guess my little "grin" emoji was too subtle...
Just thought folks would find these ebay pictures amusing in light of this thread.
The seller got a note from me pointing out this was just some homemade piece of metal, not a sleeve as advertised. She blew me off and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Erik A

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:09 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

E A
 

I guess my little "grin" emoji was too subtle...
Just thought folks would find these ebay pictures amusing in light of this thread.
The seller got a note from me pointing out this was just some homemade piece of metal, not a sleeve as advertised. She blew me off and said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 9:09 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

Caveat Emptor

Umm... Look at the pictures!!!  It might be the box but it is a crude home-made ball center without the ball or a piece of scrap metal.  Buyer beware!!

On Thursday, June 2, 2022, 07:21:21 AM CDT, E A <b-arch@...> wrote:


Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Andrei
 

Your lathe has a mt3 headstock. No sleeve needed.


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of E A <b-arch@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2022 8:21:11 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

E A
 

Currently on Ebay...
Vtg South Bend Lathe Works Headstock Spindle Sleeve Catalog No. 205-N, orig box! $49.99
So what Morse Taper is this? And will it fit my 9A?    ;-\
Erik A


From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> on behalf of rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 1:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper
 
I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


SB 9in. milling attachment

neafus
 

I'm looking for a 9in. milling attachment for my SB lathe.  If anybody has a reasonably priced milling attachment please email me at dogbreath312@... with a picture if you could.  Please no mills that have been crashed into a cutting tool. I would like to find an attachment in nice mechanical condition.


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

I would check closer before making that MT4 as I think it would be a very thin sleeve and could prove it's self problematic in use and removal.

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:15:06 PM CDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:


Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Bill in OKC too
 

Might want to add an MT4 while you're at it. Just in case. It will be a while before I need one, but the Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine my brother decided I needed has an MT4 spindle, MT3 tailstock, and came fairly well tooled for a lathe that never got used. My Atlas TH42 uses MT3/MT2, and I somehow wound up with a fairly nice little chuck on an MT1 taper long before I got my first lathe. The Atlas MF milling machine uses MT2, also.  Having the variety of adapters means you don't have to be so careful as to what Morse-tapered tooling you buy. ;) 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


Aphorisms to live by:
SEMPER GUMBY!
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.
Physics doesn't care about your schedule.
The only reason I know anything is because I've done it wrong enough times to START to know better



On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 12:05:52 PM CDT, rlm_mcv via groups.io <rlm_mcv@...> wrote:


I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

I have not but would say that is your call.  You can also ream the finish internal taper using a Morse Taper finish taper in the tail stock.   I would only do this turning the spindle by hand not under power. 

Conciser making MT1- MT2- MT3 adapters and a blank or two while you are setup?


On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, 11:50:18 AM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Rangelov
 

That will make it easier to hold and keep it true.

Should mark spindle and adapter in case the adapter is removed and reinstalled.  Probably unnecessary since is probably true. But why not?


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

I turn the outside and then with it installed in the spindle bore the inside.  It becomes an exact fit for your lathe that way.

Good luck, glad the group provided help.

On Tuesday, May 31, 2022, 07:05:02 PM CDT, Rangelov <rangelov@...> wrote:


Hi,

Thanks for all the information.  I think that I finally understand my lathe.

I misread the SouthBend documentation.

The .602 "proprietary" spindle bore taper is almost identical to Morse Taper #3 (.60235 per foot). I screwed up by thinking SB was listing the Morse Taper of the spindle bore adapter not the spindle bore.

My guestimated measurement of the spindle bore gage line was close; 1.313 to the actual 1.325.  That confirms SB documentation.

As some have suggested, I can make my own spindle MT#3 adapter.  The adapter bore taper and outside taper are the same.  Once the compound is dialed in and set, both outside and bore can be machined in the same setup, just exchanging turning tool for boring bar.

I made this harder than it was.  It just seems so simple and easy now.

Thanks, Dimitar


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

Rangelov
 

Hi,

Thanks for all the information.  I think that I finally understand my lathe.

I misread the SouthBend documentation.

The .602 "proprietary" spindle bore taper is almost identical to Morse Taper #3 (.60235 per foot). I screwed up by thinking SB was listing the Morse Taper of the spindle bore adapter not the spindle bore.

My guestimated measurement of the spindle bore gage line was close; 1.313 to the actual 1.325.  That confirms SB documentation.

As some have suggested, I can make my own spindle MT#3 adapter.  The adapter bore taper and outside taper are the same.  Once the compound is dialed in and set, both outside and bore can be machined in the same setup, just exchanging turning tool for boring bar.

I made this harder than it was.  It just seems so simple and easy now.

Thanks, Dimitar


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

Most South Bend used a .602 taper which is not a MT4.5.  It is propitiatory and unique to SB.

On Sunday, May 29, 2022, 04:15:52 PM CDT, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:


        I might be thinking that South Bend was a pretty large factor in the early days of the Machinery Handbook& maybe it was included in teh book cause there were/are so many of them out

        there ? Or I could just be pounding sand ?

        animal

On 5/28/2022 10:28 PM, rlm_mcv via groups.io wrote:
I am surprised it is listed in 1957.  That is nearly 100 years after the Morse standards were created.  We don't know when it showed up but seems relatively new compared to the original standards with the info that has be expressed so far.  It would be interesting to find why for sure that 1/2 size was created latter too, rather than having to speculate.

On Sunday, May 29, 2022, 12:19:42 AM CDT, wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:


Hi There, 

My SBL Tooling Spec Sheet lists two sets of specifications for the 14.5"
lathes.  There is the 14.5" - 3/4" collet and the 14.5" - 1-1/16" collet. 

The specs for the 14.5" - 3/4" collet has a gage line of 1.325",
and a Taper per inch of .602". 

The specs for the 14.5" - 1-1/16" collet has a gage line of 1.629",
and a Taper per inch of .602".

As to the Morse 4-1/2 taper,  It isn't listed in the Morse Taper chart but
in my Machinery's Handbook 15 Ed. (1957) page 1416 under standard
tapers is table #5 - American Standard Self-holding Tapers - Basic Dimensions
(ASA B5.10-1953), it lists a 4&1/2 taper under the Morse Taper Series.  It is
listed as having a Taper per Inch of 0.62400" and a Gage line of 1.50000".

So, I don't think that using the 4&1/2 Morse taper designation is particularly
"new."

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

mike allen
 

        I might be thinking that South Bend was a pretty large factor in the early days of the Machinery Handbook& maybe it was included in teh book cause there were/are so many of them out

        there ? Or I could just be pounding sand ?

        animal

On 5/28/2022 10:28 PM, rlm_mcv via groups.io wrote:
I am surprised it is listed in 1957.  That is nearly 100 years after the Morse standards were created.  We don't know when it showed up but seems relatively new compared to the original standards with the info that has be expressed so far.  It would be interesting to find why for sure that 1/2 size was created latter too, rather than having to speculate.

On Sunday, May 29, 2022, 12:19:42 AM CDT, wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:


Hi There, 

My SBL Tooling Spec Sheet lists two sets of specifications for the 14.5"
lathes.  There is the 14.5" - 3/4" collet and the 14.5" - 1-1/16" collet. 

The specs for the 14.5" - 3/4" collet has a gage line of 1.325",
and a Taper per inch of .602". 

The specs for the 14.5" - 1-1/16" collet has a gage line of 1.629",
and a Taper per inch of .602".

As to the Morse 4-1/2 taper,  It isn't listed in the Morse Taper chart but
in my Machinery's Handbook 15 Ed. (1957) page 1416 under standard
tapers is table #5 - American Standard Self-holding Tapers - Basic Dimensions
(ASA B5.10-1953), it lists a 4&1/2 taper under the Morse Taper Series.  It is
listed as having a Taper per Inch of 0.62400" and a Gage line of 1.50000".

So, I don't think that using the 4&1/2 Morse taper designation is particularly
"new."

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

wlw19958
 

Hi There, 

I gather from the table (ASA 5.10-1953) that this table was
adopted in 1953.  I would guess that it was adopted because
several machine makers during the 1950's started using this
taper in the spindles of their lathes (like Rockwell, Clausing
and Leblond).  I don't know who was first and when actually
it started. 

I do see that SBL did make a lathe that used it (the 1307 model)
but I am unfamiliar with that model.  I don't know if this model
was actually made by SBL or just re-badged from some other
maker and sold under the SBL name.  My information comes
from spec.sheet 7324 (dated 5-73). 

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

rlm_mcv
 

I am surprised it is listed in 1957.  That is nearly 100 years after the Morse standards were created.  We don't know when it showed up but seems relatively new compared to the original standards with the info that has be expressed so far.  It would be interesting to find why for sure that 1/2 size was created latter too, rather than having to speculate.

On Sunday, May 29, 2022, 12:19:42 AM CDT, wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:


Hi There, 

My SBL Tooling Spec Sheet lists two sets of specifications for the 14.5"
lathes.  There is the 14.5" - 3/4" collet and the 14.5" - 1-1/16" collet. 

The specs for the 14.5" - 3/4" collet has a gage line of 1.325",
and a Taper per inch of .602". 

The specs for the 14.5" - 1-1/16" collet has a gage line of 1.629",
and a Taper per inch of .602".

As to the Morse 4-1/2 taper,  It isn't listed in the Morse Taper chart but
in my Machinery's Handbook 15 Ed. (1957) page 1416 under standard
tapers is table #5 - American Standard Self-holding Tapers - Basic Dimensions
(ASA B5.10-1953), it lists a 4&1/2 taper under the Morse Taper Series.  It is
listed as having a Taper per Inch of 0.62400" and a Gage line of 1.50000".

So, I don't think that using the 4&1/2 Morse taper designation is particularly
"new."

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

wlw19958
 

Hi There, 

My SBL Tooling Spec Sheet lists two sets of specifications for the 14.5"
lathes.  There is the 14.5" - 3/4" collet and the 14.5" - 1-1/16" collet. 

The specs for the 14.5" - 3/4" collet has a gage line of 1.325",
and a Taper per inch of .602". 

The specs for the 14.5" - 1-1/16" collet has a gage line of 1.629",
and a Taper per inch of .602".

As to the Morse 4-1/2 taper,  It isn't listed in the Morse Taper chart but
in my Machinery's Handbook 15 Ed. (1957) page 1416 under standard
tapers is table #5 - American Standard Self-holding Tapers - Basic Dimensions
(ASA B5.10-1953), it lists a 4&1/2 taper under the Morse Taper Series.  It is
listed as having a Taper per Inch of 0.62400" and a Gage line of 1.50000".

So, I don't think that using the 4&1/2 Morse taper designation is particularly
"new."

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

wmrmeyers@gmail.com
 

I was told it was "about" MT4.5, and that is not an official size. Haven't measured it, though it did get de-rusted in EvapoRust. I'd have to finally unbox my surface plate to measure it properly, but I'm willing if anyone needs it done. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, May 28, 2022, 08:33:52 PM CDT, Guenther Paul <paulguenter@...> wrote:


In 50 years of machining i never heard or saw a 4 1/2 morse taper  1,2,3,4,5 yes

GP


On Saturday, May 28, 2022, 08:45:15 PM EDT, ken campbell <deltainc@...> wrote:


just for reference, i have a friend that has a heavy 10 ... but it has a d3 chuck, and we think it takes MT4.5 spindle centers.  it also has about a 1.25 inch spindle hole..  kind of a rare beast, apparently.  it is a qc with starwheel clutch engagement and has a taper attachment ! ...  and underdrive.  hmmm .

oh, we can't find a MT4.5 adapter anywhere, but at least he has the taper attachment to make some.

ken


Re: 14-1/2 spindle nose and taper

wmrmeyers@gmail.com
 

My heavy 10 has the 1-3/8" spindle through hole. So far as I can tell, anyway. It's still a little too rusty to be certain. Spent five years in a leaky barn before I got it. I have it about a third disassembled and de-rusted. Headstock, turret tailstock, and two of the old single tumbler QCGB's, and a taper attachment, still need disassembly and de-rusting. 

Might be a few years yet, but it's inside, taking up my workshop space. I may may de-rust the bed with an improvised blaster full of walnut shell with sheet plastic to catch the walnut shell. Have an old parts washer full of Purple Power degrease that will probably use on the gear boxes and such. Though I've also built a tank to do electrolytic rust removal if the walnut shell doesn't work well. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Saturday, May 28, 2022, 07:45:42 PM CDT, ken campbell <deltainc@...> wrote:


just for reference, i have a friend that has a heavy 10 ... but it has a d3 chuck, and we think it takes MT4.5 spindle centers.  it also has about a 1.25 inch spindle hole..  kind of a rare beast, apparently.  it is a qc with starwheel clutch engagement and has a taper attachment ! ...  and underdrive.  hmmm .

oh, we can't find a MT4.5 adapter anywhere, but at least he has the taper attachment to make some.

ken

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