Date   

Fw: [SouthBendLathe] Switch Smoke

ART
 

Greg:

I decided to go back and check my repair to the smoking switch, and I found the real problem. 

The connection between the "tab" where the output wire from the switch connects to the motor was a riveted connection that worked loose over time.  This loose connection generated heat which heated the wire and weakened the insulation on that wire causing a short to the ground wire which was touching it in the small space of the switch housing.

Hope that helps.

Capt. Art

----- Forwarded Message -----

From: ART <twocan90@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <southbendlathe@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 04:44:02 PM EDT
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Switch Smoke

Greg:

Carefully check for frayed or broken insulation on the wires that feed the switch.

I just had this exact same thing happen on my drill press.  Upon opening the switch cover, I found the positive input wire rubbing against the ground wire.  This is also the original switch, probably 20+ years old.

In any case I insulated the broken insulation and the problem was fixed.

You should also make sure that the jumper wire is the same size as the rest of the wiring.

Capt. Art


On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 04:31:30 PM EDT, Glen Ruch via groups.io <gw.ruch@...> wrote:


Perhaps the Motor Wiring Diagrams would be of use:

https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe/files/Techinfo/Motors-Switches/SBL_MotorWiringP1.jpg

https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe/files/Techinfo/Motors-Switches/SBL_MotorWiringP2.jpg

https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe/files/Techinfo/Motors-Switches/Furnas%20Drum%20Switch/DRUMSW~1.jpg

Regards.

On 8/31/21 3:20 PM, Glen Ruch via groups.io wrote:

Depending on the connection, it is possible the circuit is running thru the motor commutator thru the motor coil back thru the commutator to the drum switch.  The motor winding could be read as a short circuit depending on how the Ohm meter is set.

On 8/31/21 12:37 PM, G K via groups.io wrote:
When checking continuity with my voltmeter, I am showing a closed circuit between T1, T3, and T2, T4.  Is this expected, or is there an issue within the motor?



On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:


The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

G K
 

Hey Guys,

We're up and going again.  Disassembly was a bit of a PIA.  It turns out that there was a nick in the insulation of one of the wires between the motor and the switch.  Turns out it was on a black wire (not the HOT black wire from the plug).  Long and short, I rewired from the motor to the switch to the power cord, and all is good.

Thanks for the insight.

Greg

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 05:48:38 PM CDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


Remember this is AC. 

PHASE IS IMPORTANT. . 

if you disconnect the wires from anything note either the color/number code/or make the wires with tags and take a picture FIRST. 
While they can be hooked in parallel or series, note which way they are NOW. There are two parallel connections and two series connections. In the wrong way the fields will cancel and the motor will be destroyed. 

I have been avoiding saying this but the engineer in me wont let it go.  

Please do not take this as a criticism, just a correction. 

This is AC! 

No wire is plus or minus. The black wire is HOT. And since we run on split phase, there are two hots with 230V between them. 
The white wire is neutral, Its potential is more or less midway between the two hots. 
The green wire is ground. 
The white wire may not be at ground potential.  Usually close but not always at ground depending on load and distance from the main. 



On Aug 31, 2021, at 5:29 PM, wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:

Hi There,

Here is a simple diagram showing the run and start windings.
Run windings are 110-120 volts each.  They are wired either
in parallel (for 110-120 volt operation) or in series (for 220-240
volt operation).

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb <Motor Diagram 1.bmp>

Jim B.





--
Jim B


Re: Switch Smoke

Jim_B
 

Remember this is AC. 

PHASE IS IMPORTANT. . 

if you disconnect the wires from anything note either the color/number code/or make the wires with tags and take a picture FIRST. 
While they can be hooked in parallel or series, note which way they are NOW. There are two parallel connections and two series connections. In the wrong way the fields will cancel and the motor will be destroyed. 

I have been avoiding saying this but the engineer in me wont let it go.  

Please do not take this as a criticism, just a correction. 

This is AC! 

No wire is plus or minus. The black wire is HOT. And since we run on split phase, there are two hots with 230V between them. 
The white wire is neutral, Its potential is more or less midway between the two hots. 
The green wire is ground. 
The white wire may not be at ground potential.  Usually close but not always at ground depending on load and distance from the main. 



On Aug 31, 2021, at 5:29 PM, wlw19958 <wlw-19958@...> wrote:

Hi There,

Here is a simple diagram showing the run and start windings.
Run windings are 110-120 volts each.  They are wired either
in parallel (for 110-120 volt operation) or in series (for 220-240
volt operation).

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb <Motor Diagram 1.bmp>

Jim B.





--
Jim B


Re: Switch Smoke

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

Here is a simple diagram showing the run and start windings.
Run windings are 110-120 volts each.  They are wired either
in parallel (for 110-120 volt operation) or in series (for 220-240
volt operation).

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: Switch Smoke

ART
 

Greg:

Carefully check for frayed or broken insulation on the wires that feed the switch.

I just had this exact same thing happen on my drill press.  Upon opening the switch cover, I found the positive input wire rubbing against the ground wire.  This is also the original switch, probably 20+ years old.

In any case I insulated the broken insulation and the problem was fixed.

You should also make sure that the jumper wire is the same size as the rest of the wiring.

Capt. Art


On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 04:31:30 PM EDT, Glen Ruch via groups.io <gw.ruch@...> wrote:


Perhaps the Motor Wiring Diagrams would be of use:

https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe/files/Techinfo/Motors-Switches/SBL_MotorWiringP1.jpg

https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe/files/Techinfo/Motors-Switches/SBL_MotorWiringP2.jpg

https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe/files/Techinfo/Motors-Switches/Furnas%20Drum%20Switch/DRUMSW~1.jpg

Regards.

On 8/31/21 3:20 PM, Glen Ruch via groups.io wrote:

Depending on the connection, it is possible the circuit is running thru the motor commutator thru the motor coil back thru the commutator to the drum switch.  The motor winding could be read as a short circuit depending on how the Ohm meter is set.

On 8/31/21 12:37 PM, G K via groups.io wrote:
When checking continuity with my voltmeter, I am showing a closed circuit between T1, T3, and T2, T4.  Is this expected, or is there an issue within the motor?



On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:


The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

Glen Ruch
 

On 8/31/21 3:20 PM, Glen Ruch via groups.io wrote:

Depending on the connection, it is possible the circuit is running thru the motor commutator thru the motor coil back thru the commutator to the drum switch.  The motor winding could be read as a short circuit depending on how the Ohm meter is set.

On 8/31/21 12:37 PM, G K via groups.io wrote:
When checking continuity with my voltmeter, I am showing a closed circuit between T1, T3, and T2, T4.  Is this expected, or is there an issue within the motor?



On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:


The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

wlw19958
 

Hi There,

It is unlikely that there is a commutator in this motor.  The vast majority
of the fractional HP motors are induction motors.  Unless this is a repulsion
start motor, there isn't any commutator. 

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: Switch Smoke

Glen Ruch
 

Depending on the connection, it is possible the circuit is running thru the motor commutator thru the motor coil back thru the commutator to the drum switch.  The motor winding could be read as a short circuit depending on how the Ohm meter is set.

On 8/31/21 12:37 PM, G K via groups.io wrote:
When checking continuity with my voltmeter, I am showing a closed circuit between T1, T3, and T2, T4.  Is this expected, or is there an issue within the motor?



On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:


The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

Bill in OKC too
 

When I'm testing electrical circuits, and throw the switch, I announce "Smoke ON!" And you can get quite a bit of smoke out of a 100amp 3phase 480VAC breaker when there is something wrong with it. ;)

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 10:28:04 AM CDT, eddie.draper@btinternet.com via groups.io <eddie.draper=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:





Electricity IS smoke. Every electrical apparatus, cable etc. at the point of manufacture is filled with just the right amount of smoke to ensure satisfactory operation by internal circulation of the smoke around all parts of a circuit. If you let the smoke out, things stop working (QED).




Eddie


------ Original Message ------
From: "Glen Ruch via groups.io" <gw.ruch=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 31 Aug, 21 At 15:54
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Switch Smoke



I would also consider dirty contacts. If so the heat generated might melt the switch insulator and the contacts, or termination might be loose in the insulator.


Hope this helps
On 8/31/21 10:33 AM, G K via groups.io wrote:
Ray,
Thanks for the insight. The switch through arm was quite loose making eh switch operate sloppily (if that's a word). I'll tighten things up, replace the jumper. check a few terminals for shorts, and plug 'er back in.
Thanks again,
Greg
On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection
On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn. Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues. Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch. I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch. Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried. No idea why. I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter. Suggested troubleshoot?
120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.
I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look. Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there. If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens. Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short. Not sure. Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short? The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.
Thanks,
Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

mike allen
 

        correct-a-mundo

        animal

On 8/31/2021 8:27 AM, eddie.draper@... via groups.io wrote:
Electricity IS smoke. Every electrical apparatus, cable etc. at the point of manufacture is filled with just the right amount of smoke to ensure satisfactory operation by internal circulation of the smoke around all parts of a circuit. If you let the smoke out, things stop working (QED).


Eddie


------ Original Message ------ From: "Glen Ruch via groups.io" <gw.ruch@...> To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, 31 Aug, 21 At 15:54 Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Switch Smoke

I would also consider dirty contacts. If so the heat generated might melt the switch insulator and the contacts, or termination might be loose in the insulator.

Hope this helps

On 8/31/21 10:33 AM, G K via groups.io wrote:
Ray,
Thanks for the insight. The switch through arm was quite loose making eh switch operate sloppily (if that's a word). I'll tighten things up, replace the jumper. check a few terminals for shorts, and plug 'er back in.
Thanks again,
Greg
On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:
The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection
On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:
Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn. Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues. Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch. I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch. Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried. No idea why. I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter. Suggested troubleshoot?
120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.
I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look. Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there. If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens. Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short. Not sure. Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short? The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.
Thanks,
Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

G K
 

When checking continuity with my voltmeter, I am showing a closed circuit between T1, T3, and T2, T4.  Is this expected, or is there an issue within the motor?



On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:


The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Electricity IS smoke. Every electrical apparatus, cable etc. at the point of manufacture is filled with just the right amount of smoke to ensure satisfactory operation by internal circulation of the smoke around all parts of a circuit. If you let the smoke out, things stop working (QED).


Eddie




------ Original Message ------
From: "Glen Ruch via groups.io" <gw.ruch@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 31 Aug, 21 At 15:54
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Switch Smoke

I would also consider dirty contacts. If so the heat generated might melt the switch insulator and the contacts, or termination might be loose in the insulator.

Hope this helps

On 8/31/21 10:33 AM, G K via groups.io wrote:
Ray,

Thanks for the insight. The switch through arm was quite loose making eh switch operate sloppily (if that's a word). I'll tighten things up, replace the jumper. check a few terminals for shorts, and plug 'er back in.

Thanks again,

Greg

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:


The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn. Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues. Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch. I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch. Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried. No idea why. I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter. Suggested troubleshoot?

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look. Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there. If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens. Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short. Not sure. Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short? The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

Glen Ruch
 

I would also consider dirty contacts.  If so the heat generated might melt the switch insulator and the contacts, or termination might be loose in the insulator. 

Hope this helps

On 8/31/21 10:33 AM, G K via groups.io wrote:
Ray,

Thanks for the insight.  The switch through arm was quite loose making eh switch operate sloppily (if that's a word).  I'll tighten things up, replace the jumper. check a few terminals for shorts, and plug 'er back in.

Thanks again,

Greg

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:


The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

G K
 

Ray,

Thanks for the insight.  The switch through arm was quite loose making eh switch operate sloppily (if that's a word).  I'll tighten things up, replace the jumper. check a few terminals for shorts, and plug 'er back in.

Thanks again,

Greg

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021, 08:43:13 AM CDT, Ray De Jong via groups.io <dejongray@...> wrote:


The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

Ray De Jong
 

The Jumper terminal screws may have been a bit loose and arcing occurred and the resulting heat build up probably fried the wire. I have replaced many receptacles that fried not only the lead-in conductor but also the inside of the outlet, all from contacts losing their tension an/or a loose connection

On Monday, August 30, 2021, 6:34:26 PM PDT, G K via groups.io <bug_hunter2000@...> wrote:


Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Switch Smoke

frank7748124
 

Years ago I sold my South Bend 9A. When the prospective customer turned it on, the switch arced and smoked a bit, and blew the breaker.

Not good timing. :-)


Switch Smoke

G K
 

Working on the SB9 tonight, and smelled a little burn.  Flipped the switch off. looked around and saw no issues.  Flipped it back on and pop goes the breaker, and smoke from the switch.  I believe the switch is the original (1942) drum switch.  Unplugged it, and took the cover off the switch, and the jumper was fried.  No idea why.  I'm not an electrician, but can use a voltmeter.  Suggested troubleshoot? 

120 volt circuit. Furmas R44, 6-terminal switch, Dayton 3/4 hp motor.

I'm planning on pulling it apart tomorrow and look for any additional burned wires, but I do not believe I will find any from a cursory look.  Then I'll wire a receptacle directly onto the motor to see if there are any issues there.  If were good there, I will re-wire the switch and see what happens.  Maybe some chips got inside and caused a short.  Not sure.  Any chance capacitor went back and caused the short?  The only burn smell is in the proximity of the switch, but that could be where the smallest gauge wire (jumper) is located.

Thanks,

Greg


Re: Milling Table

Bill in OKC too
 

Frank, I've sent you a private email, if you don't find it, you can email me at wmrmeyers (at) yahoo (dot) com.

Bill

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Sunday, August 29, 2021, 08:18:24 AM CDT, frank7748124 via groups.io <frank7748124@...> wrote:


Sorry folks, that last message was for William Myers.

William, please reply to me privately.


47/37 Metric Transposing Gear

Jim_B
 

I am not sure if this is your problem.
On the lead screw is a spacer. It allows the gear position to be moved to engage either the inner or outside gear on the compound.
Here is a 127/100 setup on my 9” change gear workshop.

Is this your issue.




Jim B,

--
Jim B


Re: Milling Table

Jim_B
 

Thanks Dave, I wanted to see you solutions. 
I have a slotted plate that I have been thinking of using in a similar way. 



On Aug 29, 2021, at 4:20 AM, davetryner via groups.io <davetryner@...> wrote:

Hi Jim, Basically I decided to make three tapered spigots to fit onto my T slotted milling plate, a vertical slide, and a rotary plate ( with a' dividing head' feature) to then fit them onto the existing cross slide with the compound slide removed. Photos attached. The milling plate is adapted, with removable brackets, to attach a power drill for small cylindrical grinding jobs. I think I shall shelve the idea of a T slotted cross slide for the moment. The Myford is an option but the V channel is about 9mm wider which would mean quite chunky gib strips plus the additional machining required to adapt it. I tend to try and make most  attachments for my SB. To date that includes two and three point steady - from a pulley wheel!, taper turning attachment, thread dial to name a few. Not the real thing but they seem to work!
Regards, Dave <Workshop 245.JPG><Workshop 246.JPG><Workshop 247.JPG><Workshop 248.JPG><Workshop 249.JPG><Workshop 250.JPG>

Jim B.





--
Jim B

301 - 320 of 105751