Date   

Re: Getting my SB 9C working

jonwoellhaf
 

Good thing that’s the only time this has happened to an American business.
 

From: wlw19958
Sent: December 19, 2020 12:46
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Getting my SB 9C working
 
Hi There, 

"SB´s statement about plain, journal, bearings versus antifriction, rolling, bearings was a justification for its lack of progress and innovation, which finally led to it´s demise."

It was my understanding that SBL went out of business because
the executives the employees hired to run their company systematically
robbed the Company and left it with no assets and plenty of debts.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

wlw19958
 

Hi There, 

"SB´s statement about plain, journal, bearings versus antifriction, rolling, bearings was a justification for its lack of progress and innovation, which finally led to it´s demise."

It was my understanding that SBL went out of business because
the executives the employees hired to run their company systematically 
robbed the Company and left it with no assets and plenty of debts.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

Ondrej Krejci
 

Howdy,

SB´s statement about plain, journal, bearings versus antifriction, rolling, bearings was a justification for its lack of progress and innovation, which finally led to it´s demise.  As for chatter marks caused by rolling bearings, that´s total horse shit.
I´ve used cast iron bearings during on-site machining.  They run well at low speed with a little grease because cast iron is somewhat self-lubricating.
On the other hand, SB made its cheapest lathes with just reamed headstock bearings to save money.

Enjoy,


OK

On Saturday, December 19, 2020, 07:21:31 AM EST, Davis Johnson <davis@...> wrote:


I wish I still had the paper.

The segmented bearing (and the segments are important) is a highly effective bearing design. Something about eddy current circulation in the oil film.

The bottom line is that they work well and last long when when well lubricated.

On 12/19/20 6:50 AM, john kling via groups.io wrote:
Thanks for the discussion of "iron bearings". Although, is have no experience with or  ever seen air bearings in a way they seem in some ways an extension of the iron bearings with friction further reduced from the thin spindle oil and drag of babbitt or roller bearings.

On Saturday, December 19, 2020, 4:25:16 AM EST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:


I think you'll find that rolling element bearings, shaft loadings & speeds due to superior tool materials, and analytical methods have come on a bit since 1956...


Eddie


------ Original Message ------ From: "Mark Moulding" <mark@...> To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io Sent: Saturday, 19 Dec, 20 At 09:10 Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Getting my SB 9C working
Was the simple use of headstock iron by South Bend on there entry level lathes such as the workshop lathes simply a cost cutting measure.
According to South Bend's own literature, it definitely wasn't a cost-cutting measure: There is prevalent much misunderstanding and misinformation relative to the respective merits of so-called anti-friction bearings. Certainly they are unequalled for certain applications where low cost or low starting torque are of greater importance than precision and durability. However, it has been our experience that for the spindles of precision lathes such as we manufacture, properly designed and fitted plain bearings are superior, and even though more costly than other types of bearings, their performance justifies the added expense. The principle advantages of the plain bearing are that it provides better support for the spindle, permits using a larger spindle diameter, eliminates the possibility of chatter marks in the work due to vibration set up by the balls or rollers, runs more smoothly and quietly, wears longer, and is adjustable. (From the 1956 50th anniversary catalog.) ~~

Mark Moulding South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

Davis Johnson
 

I wish I still had the paper.

The segmented bearing (and the segments are important) is a highly effective bearing design. Something about eddy current circulation in the oil film.

The bottom line is that they work well and last long when when well lubricated.

On 12/19/20 6:50 AM, john kling via groups.io wrote:
Thanks for the discussion of "iron bearings". Although, is have no experience with or  ever seen air bearings in a way they seem in some ways an extension of the iron bearings with friction further reduced from the thin spindle oil and drag of babbitt or roller bearings.

On Saturday, December 19, 2020, 4:25:16 AM EST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:


I think you'll find that rolling element bearings, shaft loadings & speeds due to superior tool materials, and analytical methods have come on a bit since 1956...


Eddie


------ Original Message ------ From: "Mark Moulding" <mark@...> To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io Sent: Saturday, 19 Dec, 20 At 09:10 Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Getting my SB 9C working
Was the simple use of headstock iron by South Bend on there entry level lathes such as the workshop lathes simply a cost cutting measure.
According to South Bend's own literature, it definitely wasn't a cost-cutting measure: There is prevalent much misunderstanding and misinformation relative to the respective merits of so-called anti-friction bearings. Certainly they are unequalled for certain applications where low cost or low starting torque are of greater importance than precision and durability. However, it has been our experience that for the spindles of precision lathes such as we manufacture, properly designed and fitted plain bearings are superior, and even though more costly than other types of bearings, their performance justifies the added expense. The principle advantages of the plain bearing are that it provides better support for the spindle, permits using a larger spindle diameter, eliminates the possibility of chatter marks in the work due to vibration set up by the balls or rollers, runs more smoothly and quietly, wears longer, and is adjustable. (From the 1956 50th anniversary catalog.) ~~

Mark Moulding South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

john kling
 

Thanks for the discussion of "iron bearings". Although, is have no experience with or  ever seen air bearings in a way they seem in some ways an extension of the iron bearings with friction further reduced from the thin spindle oil and drag of babbitt or roller bearings.

On Saturday, December 19, 2020, 4:25:16 AM EST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:


I think you'll find that rolling element bearings, shaft loadings & speeds due to superior tool materials, and analytical methods have come on a bit since 1956...


Eddie




------ Original Message ------
From: "Mark Moulding" <mark@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 19 Dec, 20 At 09:10
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Getting my SB 9C working

Was the simple use of headstock iron by South Bend on there entry level lathes such as the workshop lathes simply a cost cutting measure.
According to South Bend's own literature, it definitely wasn't a cost-cutting measure:

There is prevalent much misunderstanding and misinformation relative to the respective merits of so-called anti-friction bearings. Certainly they are unequalled for certain applications where low cost or low starting torque are of greater importance than precision and durability. However, it has been our experience that for the spindles of precision lathes such as we manufacture, properly designed and fitted plain bearings are superior, and even though more costly than other types of bearings, their performance justifies the added expense.

The principle advantages of the plain bearing are that it provides better support for the spindle, permits using a larger spindle diameter, eliminates the possibility of chatter marks in the work due to vibration set up by the balls or rollers, runs more smoothly and quietly, wears longer, and is adjustable.

(From the 1956 50th anniversary catalog.)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

I think you'll find that rolling element bearings, shaft loadings & speeds due to superior tool materials, and analytical methods have come on a bit since 1956...


Eddie




------ Original Message ------
From: "Mark Moulding" <mark@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 19 Dec, 20 At 09:10
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Getting my SB 9C working

Was the simple use of headstock iron by South Bend on there entry level lathes such as the workshop lathes simply a cost cutting measure.
According to South Bend's own literature, it definitely wasn't a cost-cutting measure:

There is prevalent much misunderstanding and misinformation relative to the respective merits of so-called anti-friction bearings. Certainly they are unequalled for certain applications where low cost or low starting torque are of greater importance than precision and durability. However, it has been our experience that for the spindles of precision lathes such as we manufacture, properly designed and fitted plain bearings are superior, and even though more costly than other types of bearings, their performance justifies the added expense.

The principle advantages of the plain bearing are that it provides better support for the spindle, permits using a larger spindle diameter, eliminates the possibility of chatter marks in the work due to vibration set up by the balls or rollers, runs more smoothly and quietly, wears longer, and is adjustable.

(From the 1956 50th anniversary catalog.)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

It wasn't confined to entry level lathes. Our 14.5" toolroom from 1943 has C/I bearings.


It would certainly have saved a lot of cost, production time, and possibly scarce copper, lead & tin based alloys. And time has proved that it is satisfactory for the purpose, so long as it is well looked after, which is possible in a static application. It even helps to give it a spin by hand with the belt tension off prior to first switch on, just to prop the shaft up on an oil film. There is a further possible benefit: Because the copper, lead & tin alloys have thermal coefficients of expansion much greater than most ferrous materials, it is possible to run smaller clearances / higher speeds with a given oil viscosity and flow rate before differential thermal expansion takes up all the clearance and leads to a thermal runaway causing seizure and damage. Don't know if that was considered as part of the design concept, and don't know whether anyone has ever done the sums / experimental work, but could be worth a look see. The down side, of course, is that if you do get wear or a seizure, the repair is a much more serious job. The shaft on our 14.5" toolroom appears to have been metal sprayed as part of a previous owner's repair.


Cast iron isn't suitable for every application. During W W 2, The British built a large (for us) fleet of 0-6-0 industrial shunting saddle tank locomotives referred to as the "Austerity" class. They were intended as upgrades over smaller factory locos, a standard armaments depot loco, and some were sent into Europe to move military supplies. There's info on Wickipedia for anyone interested. The point of this ramble is that in order to save bronze and whitemetal normally used in the coupling rod bushes, a batch were built with cast iron bushes instead. They didn't last terribly long and all were replaced with the normal materials. Even bronze and whitemetal don't have a hugely long life on locomotives, as the bearings are subjected to misalignment as the loco negotiates twisted track and the axles tilt relative to each other, impact as the thrusts reverse, and LOTS of grit, much environmental, but some applied deliberately to the wheels as sand to provide adhesion to the rails, not to mention water from rain and what gets spilled when topping up the tank. I gather the army's standard remedy for a hot bearing was to stand it under the water filler bag and turn on the valve.


In short, cast iron bearings have their places, but locomotives ain't one of them.


Eddie




------ Original Message ------
From: "john kling via groups.io" <jkling222@...>
To: "SouthBendLathe@groups.io" <SouthBendLathe@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, 18 Dec, 20 At 22:19
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Getting my SB 9C working

Was the simple use of headstock iron by South Bend on there entry level lathes such as the workshop lathes simply a cost cutting measure. This approach has been used Goodelll
Pratt and other low cost manufactures but not all (such as Atlas).
On Friday, December 18, 2020, 3:17:00 PM EST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:


A number of points have been made in various posts on this topic, and I will now chuck in my five pennorth.


1. Anyone acquiring a lathe with a plain bearing headstock, particularly one that depends upon wick (felt) feeds, is strongly recommended to strip out the applicable bearings, muck out the oil containers and renew, or if only lightly soiled, clean, the wicks, felts, whatever BEFORE applying power for the first time, regardless of whether it is seized or not. If it is seized, I would regard it as absolutely mandatory, as there's no knowing what you might find that could cause immediate further damage. It might be "only" varnish, which is bad enough in itself, or it might be much worse. This also allows an opportunity for bearing inspection.


2. Applying a torque to a threaded fastener is only an approximate way of achieving bolt tension and stretch. The results are heavily dependant upon thread and under head friction, which can vary quite considerably. If you have an assembly that you want to put back together exactly as it came apart, forget about torque, and mark the rotational positions of each fastener in relation to fixed surfaces, ensure that each goes back in the same hole (and with the same nut & bolt pair where applicable) and retighten to the same position. You will have the same stretch as before, regardless of torque. You might want to record the torques as you tighten, but I suspect you will be amazed by the wide disparity.


3. Once you have cleaned all out, provided operating wicks / felts, and reassembled everything, set the endfloat, then perform a shaft lift and lateral displacement test. If you got there in time, they won't need adjusting. If they do need adjustment, follow the instructions.


MX & HNY to all,


Eddie


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

Mark Moulding
 

Was the simple use of headstock  iron by South Bend on there entry level lathes such as the workshop lathes simply a cost cutting measure. 
According to South Bend's own literature, it definitely wasn't a cost-cutting measure:

There is prevalent much misunderstanding and misinformation relative to the respective merits of so-called anti-friction bearings.  Certainly they are unequalled for certain applications where low cost or low starting torque are of greater importance than precision and durability.  However, it has been our experience that for the spindles of precision lathes such as we manufacture, properly designed and fitted plain bearings are superior, and even though more costly than other types of bearings, their performance justifies the added expense.

The principle advantages of the plain bearing are that it provides better support for the spindle, permits using a larger spindle diameter, eliminates the possibility of chatter marks in the work due to vibration set up by the balls or rollers, runs more smoothly and quietly, wears longer, and is adjustable.

(From the 1956 50th anniversary catalog.)
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

john kling
 

Was the simple use of headstock  iron by South Bend on there entry level lathes such as the workshop lathes simply a cost cutting measure. This approach has been used Goodelll
Pratt and other  low cost manufactures but not all (such as Atlas).

On Friday, December 18, 2020, 3:17:00 PM EST, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:


A number of points have been made in various posts on this topic, and I will now chuck in my five pennorth.


1. Anyone acquiring a lathe with a plain bearing headstock, particularly one that depends upon wick (felt) feeds, is strongly recommended to strip out the applicable bearings, muck out the oil containers and renew, or if only lightly soiled, clean, the wicks, felts, whatever BEFORE applying power for the first time, regardless of whether it is seized or not. If it is seized, I would regard it as absolutely mandatory, as there's no knowing what you might find that could cause immediate further damage. It might be "only" varnish, which is bad enough in itself, or it might be much worse. This also allows an opportunity for bearing inspection.


2. Applying a torque to a threaded fastener is only an approximate way of achieving bolt tension and stretch. The results are heavily dependant upon thread and under head friction, which can vary quite considerably. If you have an assembly that you want to put back together exactly as it came apart, forget about torque, and mark the rotational positions of each fastener in relation to fixed surfaces, ensure that each goes back in the same hole (and with the same nut & bolt pair where applicable) and retighten to the same position. You will have the same stretch as before, regardless of torque. You might want to record the torques as you tighten, but I suspect you will be amazed by the wide disparity.


3. Once you have cleaned all out, provided operating wicks / felts, and reassembled everything, set the endfloat, then perform a shaft lift and lateral displacement test. If you got there in time, they won't need adjusting. If they do need adjustment, follow the instructions.


MX & HNY to all,


Eddie


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

A number of points have been made in various posts on this topic, and I will now chuck in my five pennorth.


1. Anyone acquiring a lathe with a plain bearing headstock, particularly one that depends upon wick (felt) feeds, is strongly recommended to strip out the applicable bearings, muck out the oil containers and renew, or if only lightly soiled, clean, the wicks, felts, whatever BEFORE applying power for the first time, regardless of whether it is seized or not. If it is seized, I would regard it as absolutely mandatory, as there's no knowing what you might find that could cause immediate further damage. It might be "only" varnish, which is bad enough in itself, or it might be much worse. This also allows an opportunity for bearing inspection.


2. Applying a torque to a threaded fastener is only an approximate way of achieving bolt tension and stretch. The results are heavily dependant upon thread and under head friction, which can vary quite considerably. If you have an assembly that you want to put back together exactly as it came apart, forget about torque, and mark the rotational positions of each fastener in relation to fixed surfaces, ensure that each goes back in the same hole (and with the same nut & bolt pair where applicable) and retighten to the same position. You will have the same stretch as before, regardless of torque. You might want to record the torques as you tighten, but I suspect you will be amazed by the wide disparity.


3. Once you have cleaned all out, provided operating wicks / felts, and reassembled everything, set the endfloat, then perform a shaft lift and lateral displacement test. If you got there in time, they won't need adjusting. If they do need adjustment, follow the instructions.


MX & HNY to all,


Eddie


Re: Southbend 15 lathe

Daniel Naunton
 

I will definitely have to look into that especially As I was going to buy a dro and looks like that does that too.

Bit of figuring out to exactly what I will to make it operational.

Cheers


Re: Southbend 15 lathe

Andrei
 

I bet your lathe would be a great candidate for an electronic lead screw (ELS). It allows you to make ANY thread you want. I found this a while back online. It will run about 250-300 bucks or so, delivered. All you need is add your little stepper or servo. It will be much cheaper than any quick-change box and it will make literally any thread you want. It beats, hands down the ELS sold by autoartisans as a cobbled-togehter DIY ELS. 

They also have a bigger unit meant for a production shop, and even that one is only about twice the price of the unit linked below. 

How can you go wrong?

The electronic lead screw turns a simple lathe into a cycle lathe! It replaces the gear completely and drives the X and Z axis of the lathe via one or two stepper motors.
www.rocketronics.de



Southbend 15 lathe

Daniel Naunton
 

I have a southbend 15" by 8' manual change gear lathe catalog number 121-e . I have been looking for quick change gear but to no avail.  When looking at the specs it has the same size leadcrew as a 16" which seems to be a more common lathe and I see quick gear boxes for sale. Does anyone know if I bought the gear box and the appropriate lead screw should it work .

Cheers


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

david pennington
 

Here is the switch mount on my 9C. Sadly, the original motor came to me in pieces, so the switch is not wired up for the "temporary" replacement.

-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Moulding <mark@...>
Date: 12/17/20 21:43 (GMT-07:00)
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Getting my SB 9C working

[Edited Message Follows]

@mike allen: I thought of using a torque wrench when loosening the bearing clamp screws, but figured that mostly I'd get the initial "sticktion" reading rather than the actual torque.  Maybe if I re-tightened it immediately after it breaks free, that would be a close value to use.  I'm beginning to think that it's not that critical, since the bearing tightness will mostly be determined by the shims, which I'm not planning on removing,  I like the idea of using the vent holes to introduce the solvent into the bearings, rather than just the oil cups - that should get directly to the place it's needed the most.

@Dave Pennington: Your idea of not loosening the bearings at all sounds a bit scary, especially for reassembly.  I like the idea conceptually, but am not sure that I have the guts...  I'm also trying to figure out where to mount the power switch.  My dad just used an old light switch screwed to the bottom of the bench (I mentioned that he didn't have any extra money), but I picked up an original South Bend barrel-type reversing switch from eBay.  I've variously seen it mounted on a stalk from the motor countershaft bracket (older models), from the left-hand back-gear cover like yours (this vintage, but usually the model A), or on a way clamp in front of the headstock (this vintage, models B and C; no change gears to get in the way).  I'd love to locate that little way clamp...
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Re: Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to 9-B conversion (no quickchange)?

popeyetokar@att.net
 

Stuart,  check out McMaster Carr, they sell Acme thread stock.  They handle different sizes, as well as both left and right hand thread. Hopes this
helps.

On Friday, December 18, 2020, 10:17:21 AM EST, Stuart Wilby via groups.io <stuartawilby@...> wrote:


I have used a lead screw off a 36 inch SB 9B which w
became available, it was too short for the 42 inch bed, so I made a steel extension pinned it with taper pins in 2 places, extended the slot on the Miller to accommodate the traverse section of the apron, I haven’t made the thread yet and probably won’t bother seeing as most the work is done near the chuck, but there’s enough threade lead screw to do most jobs, bingo, I looked for a 42inch lead screw for a SB 9B, still looking, but not desperate now.


Re: Will a 9-A leadscrew work for a 9-C to 9-B conversion (no quickchange)?

Stuart Wilby
 

I have used a lead screw off a 36 inch SB 9B which w
became available, it was too short for the 42 inch bed, so I made a steel extension pinned it with taper pins in 2 places, extended the slot on the Miller to accommodate the traverse section of the apron, I haven’t made the thread yet and probably won’t bother seeing as most the work is done near the chuck, but there’s enough threade lead screw to do most jobs, bingo, I looked for a 42inch lead screw for a SB 9B, still looking, but not desperate now.


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

Stuart Wilby
 

Loosen the bearing cap bolts, loosen the spindle end float nut 1/4 turn anti-clockwise  ( screwdriver) , neutralise the tumbler until they spin freely, drop the back gears out, if it doesn’t turn, there could be a lube spring hitting the spindle underneath if the felt has worn away, this spring could be trapping the spindle if it has deformed so it is here you need to progress with caution, try to ease the spindle in the reverse direction in vary small increments, this will hopefully  throw the trapped end of the spring out from between the bearing and the shaft.
be bold, do not use a hammer at any time, I take my spindles out regularly, this is where you will gain valuable information and knowledge of how the guys at SB designed and built these amazing machines, don’t panic the solution will come with patience.


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

ww_big_al
 

Mark, you are over thinking this. When I got my 9A, I knew very little about them. It needed a belt and seemed like the serpentine belt was the way to go. I estimated the size I needed (51.5”) based on the bench I was mounting it to. So, I pulled the spindle out, changed felt, lubed the back gear and put it back together. Making sure the shims were in the right place. Several years later I saw how to test the chuck clearance using a bar in the chuck. It fell well in tolerance. Maybe I was lucky, but I was just careful. I am mechanically inclined, so it was just another machine to repair. The counter shaft gave me more problems. The setscrew in the spacer does not have a relief under it. The shaft was galled requiring filing it smooth to remove it. Get the felt kit and book and go for it.

At a later date I the thrust roller bearing.

Al

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io <SouthBendLathe@groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Moulding
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 11:20 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Getting my SB 9C working

 

[Edited Message Follows]

@mike allen: I thought of using a torque wrench when loosening the bearing clamp screws, but figured that mostly I'd get the initial "sticktion" reading rather than the actual torque.  Maybe if I re-tightened it immediately after it breaks free, that would be a close value to use.  I'm beginning to think that it's not that critical, since the bearing tightness will mostly be determined by the shims, which I'm not planning on removing,  I like the idea of using the vent holes to introduce the solvent into the bearings, rather than just the oil cups - that should get directly to the place it's needed the most.

@Dave Pennington: Your idea of not loosening the bearings at all sounds a bit scary, especially for reassembly.  I like the idea conceptually, but am not sure that I have the guts...  I'm also trying to figure out where to mount the power switch.  My dad just used an old light switch screwed to the bottom of the bench (I mentioned that he didn't have any extra money), but I picked up an original South Bend barrel-type reversing switch from eBay.  I've variously seen it mounted on a stalk from the motor countershaft bracket (older models), from the left-hand back-gear cover like yours (this vintage, but usually the model A), or on a way clamp in front of the headstock (this vintage, models B and C; no change gears to get in the way).  I'd love to locate that little way clamp...
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

Mark Moulding
 
Edited

@mike allen: I thought of using a torque wrench when loosening the bearing clamp screws, but figured that mostly I'd get the initial "sticktion" reading rather than the actual torque.  Maybe if I re-tightened it immediately after it breaks free, that would be a close value to use.  I'm beginning to think that it's not that critical, since the bearing tightness will mostly be determined by the shims, which I'm not planning on removing,  I like the idea of using the vent holes to introduce the solvent into the bearings, rather than just the oil cups - that should get directly to the place it's needed the most.

@Dave Pennington: Your idea of not loosening the bearings at all sounds a bit scary, especially for reassembly.  I like the idea conceptually, but am not sure that I have the guts...  I'm also trying to figure out where to mount the power switch.  My dad just used an old light switch screwed to the bottom of the bench (I mentioned that he didn't have any extra money), but I picked up an original South Bend barrel-type reversing switch from eBay.  I've variously seen it mounted on a stalk from the motor countershaft bracket (older models), from the left-hand back-gear cover like yours (this vintage, but usually the model A), or on a way clamp in front of the headstock (this vintage, models B and C; no change gears to get in the way).  I'd love to locate that little way clamp...
~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear


Re: Getting my SB 9C working

mike allen
 

        what I do when taking things apart that are tightened to a certain clearance or torque , but I don't know what that measurement may be is I get my old needle torque wrench out & have a extra set of eyes there &

        loosen the bolt or what ever else it is & see where on the needle I get my first movement . That can get me close when I put it all back together , . I use the needle torque wrench to tighten things back up also .

        animal

On 12/17/2020 6:19 AM, david pennington via groups.io wrote:
Mark,

My 9C is from 1948 and looks like yours. Its original owner was a G-E engineer, who bought it for his home shop. It did not come directly to me, but I am effectively its 2nd user. It shows some wear, but is otherwise in excellent shape.

Once you get the bearings loosened up using solvents as others have recommended, let me offer the following as food for thought.

While it is unorthodox--and was a white knuckle operation--I removed/replaced the spindle without loosening the bearing caps. Though it took care and was not done with any haste, it was surprisingly easy and was fully successful. My purpose was to install a serpentine belt.

All that said, I am surprised that your lathe's bearings are frozen up. Some years ago I took receipt of an 1892 Seneca Falls lathe that had sat unused for at least 50 years. It was sitting in the manufacturing area of a climate-controlled facility. The spindle rotated freely.

Best of luck,

Dave

David W. Pennington
Denver, Colorado
720-442-3744 - Please note the new number.


On Thursday, December 17, 2020, 02:19:03 AM MST, Mark Moulding <mark@...> wrote:


Thanks for all the helpful advice.  I am sure that neither the back gears nor the change gear train is the problem, as I've disengaged both of those.  It's probably just as several have said that the oil has turned to varnish, and has thoroughly glued the spindle to its bearings.  Therefore, my first attempt will be to flush out all of the old gook with solvents - the brake cleaner that @glenn brooks recommended sounds like a pretty good call.

Assuming this gets the spindle turning, my next concern is those felts, which seem likely to be little petrified blocks at this point.  Since my lathe is as @Davis Johnson described with the oil cups actually below the level of the bearings, the bearings are solely dependent upon those felts for lubrication so I'm quite concerned that if I don't replace them, the bearings won't be getting any lubrication at all.  I believe the only way I can replace them is to remove the spindle.  I did read one post that said the solvent could rejuvenate the felts as well, but I don't know how I could tell anyway.

I've watched a few YouTube videos on disassembling the headstock, and in particular this one (by Halligan142, in case the link doesn't work) seemed to show that the spindle could be removed without affecting the shims - the only disturbance to the factory tolerances would be not getting the torques on the bearing clamp screws back exactly to the same place.  I'm hoping that if I keep everything clean, I can get quite close by indexing the screws the same number of turns when I re-tighten them; apparently, I don't need to remove them all the way.

I'm going to get the rest of my shop set up, so that I'll have all my tools available and at hand before tackling this, but the the meantime I'm certainly open to any further advice.  Thanks again!

~~

Mark Moulding
South Bend 9" Model C, Walker Turner drill press, Rong Fu table-top mill, "Mini" lathe, a whole bunch of Shopsmith gear

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