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Re: threaded er chuck
Rick
Thanks, now to hunt down a 34 tooth gear!
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Re: threaded er chuck
m. allan noah
Rick-
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The real trick is to use a 34 tooth stud gear instead of the 24 or 48. That makes your 6 tpi screw act like a 4.235 tpi screw, which happens to be 5.9972 mm per turn. That's close enough to 6mm to make good fasteners. That will let you cut 11 common metric pitches with less than 0.05% error (1 part per 2000). A smattering of other pitches can be made with a few other gears, with slightly worse error. The usual warning about leaving the half-nuts engaged applies with all of these, BTW. Gearbox, MM, %Err 144 0.25 0.046 80 0.45 0.046 72 0.50 0.046 48 0.75 0.046 40 0.90 0.046 36 1.00 0.046 24 1.50 0.046 18 2.00 0.046 12 3.00 0.046 9 4.00 0.046 8 4.50 0.046 Also, you can pick up some of the other common screw threads if you add a couple more gears to the mix: If you replace the stud gear with a 43, the leadscrew will act like it is 7.6mm, which does not sound useful. But with the ratios in the gearbox, you can get the following: Gearbox, MM, %Err 26 1.75 0.019 13 3.50 0.019 And, if you put the 24 tooth stud gear back, and instead replace the 64 tooth screw gear with a 50 tooth, you get the following: Gearbox, MM, %Err 26 1.25 0.037 13 2.50 0.037 There are some other, finer common threads, but I doubt you will be cutting them on an SB 13. If you have some other pitch you need, let me know. allan
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 4:05 PM Rick <vwrick@optimum.net> wrote:
--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"
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Re: threaded er chuck
Rick
George, if that was directed at me, I have already made one for my 9a several years ago. I’m asking about the cutting of metric threads on a SB13, as I would like to make one for that lathe as well.
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Re: threaded er chuck
Rick
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:04 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
Allan, does this apply to a double tumbler SB 13 also? If not, do you have a similar setup for the 13 double tumbler? Thanks, Rick
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Re: New member
Tyler
Welcome Kit, I also have a 405 (#59162), and unless I am mistaken, someone has replaced your tailstock with one from a later 9". The 405s usually had the tailstock cast with both sides open which allowed the wrench to be used from either side. I would suggest double-checking the fit and alignment of your tailstock. As others said, the gears are 20 DP so later gears will not fit unless you also change the spindle. The spindle felts should definitely be replaced. Fortunately, removing the spindle is pretty easy on this model, and if desired, it is possible to use a later headstock. Keep in mind your leadscrew is LH thread, while the later ones are RH. This could be an issue if you use a later headstock with a tumbler. -Tyler
On Monday, September 21, 2020, 9:28:14 AM CDT, Kit Maira <kit.maira@...> wrote:
Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale? I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.
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Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion
Louis
Brian - I would keep the original drive assembly if I had it and use the VFD to power it and add the variable speed capability. That way you have the best of both worlds. Plus I like to keep the original drive so it looks original. Some future owner might prefer that.
Guenther - My boxes are not from the same source. Typically I use whatever's lying around the shop or down at the local industrial surplus yard. Since I use remote controls I rarely need access so I have them both with doors or screwed on covers. I maintain the manufacturers recommended clearances so that determines the minimum size. Sizes are roughly 16x12x7. I vent at the top and bottom. I modify typical duct venting covers with a piece of those green furnace filters on the inside. BTW, if you can't find a box locally, Factorymation has them in a wide variety of sizes. It will cost you though. Since I enclose the VFD, to get the speeds right I typically mount a speed table on or somewhere close to every machine that shows the configuration/pot setting needed. Adding one more thing. I've also built a portable VFD power unit. Just a VFD inside a correct size and vented plastic toolbox. It has externally mounted controls, an input cord and a 3 phase socket. I use it occasionally to temporarily power up or test 3 phase machines and motors. Louis
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Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion
Guenther Paul
Louis Can you show me a picture of the box you use for the VFD and how you vent it. Do you use a filter over the box . Also where Can i get a the boxes. I am looking for a 12"x12"x12" box with a full access door . My electrical supplier does not have them in that size configuration GP
On Monday, September 21, 2020, 10:37:15 PM EDT, Brian via groups.io <bd_ski@...> wrote:
Hello Louis, I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share your experience and thoughts on the VFD's and what you've used. Your information really helped me out, and I'll put it to good use. I do have a subsequent question - if I would go variable speed with a VFD, would I need to use the original drive motor assembly/drive cone.?. or is that just a matter of preference? Regards Brian, On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 03:35:17 PM EDT, Louis via groups.io <l_schoolkate@...> wrote: Brian, Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts. If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues. It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire. For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD. If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used! I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes. As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues. That's about all I can think of. Louis
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Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion
Hello Louis, I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share your experience and thoughts on the VFD's and what you've used. Your information really helped me out, and I'll put it to good use. I do have a subsequent question - if I would go variable speed with a VFD, would I need to use the original drive motor assembly/drive cone.?. or is that just a matter of preference? Regards Brian,
On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 03:35:17 PM EDT, Louis via groups.io <l_schoolkate@...> wrote: Brian, Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts. If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues. It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire. For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD. If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used! I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes. As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues. That's about all I can think of. Louis
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Re: New member
m. allan noah
The 405 should have 20 DP gears, IIRC. But, you should measure the OD and tooth count of your gears to be sure. allan
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 3:41 PM Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
-- "well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"
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Re: New member
I may be incorrect on Boxford. I think the 22 DP is Myford.
Here is a link to gears. Another thing, The spindle thread on your lathe is 1-3/8-10. Not 1-1/2-8 as are later lathes. Here are some other differences.
Jim B. -- Jim B
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Re: New member
Kit, I've got the 3D printer files from Thingiverse contributor dsell. The info on the gears he designed are as follows: 14.5 PA; 18 DP; 3/8" thick; 1/8" key; 9/16" hole. If you can find the same info on the gears your lathe takes, this will help you figure out if they can work for you. I've still not been able to figure out if they'll work on my Heavy 10L, but it's so far from being usable that's not a priority for me yet. I do have a 3D printer, and hope to be able to get to it one of these days. So far, I've printed one 127 tooth mini-lathe change gear, and several years after having printed it, I still can't tell you if it will actually work on the 7x10 mini-lathe. I purchased the 3d printer to make change gears for that, and my Atlas TH42, before I got the Heavy 10L. It should work to print them, also, but I'm not educated enough in the right areas to really figure that out yet. And there is the whole can't reach much of anything including the 3d printer. There is a group I started that might help you, you'd be welcome to join, if interested. https://groups.io/g/3D-Printing-for-Metal-Hobbyists/topics I had planned on having all that sorted out by now, but my back has not been cooperating, and COVID-19 has made it harder to get the treatments that might solve the problem for a while, anyway. I do have an appointment this week to get another set of nerves burned, and that may let me do stuff again. I hope. If it works out, I'll be playing with mine again, and may be able to help you too. Seems to me Steve Wells has some info on the various sizes of change gears SB has used, but I need to go do some stuff for SWMBO, who has her own medical problems, including much worse back troubles than mine. HTH! Bill in OKC William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)
On Monday, September 21, 2020, 09:28:13 AM CDT, Kit Maira <kit.maira@...> wrote:
Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale? I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.
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Re: New member
John Dammeyer
I'd suggest you clean it up and add a spindle sensor and X/Z drives and use LinuxCNC or MACH to automate it. You can still do manual operations with a CNC controller. If you don't want full automation then something like my Electronic Lead Screw will replace the gears.
I have my South Bend Heavy 10LTumbler in neutral and the single lever gear box not engaged. A single pulse per rev sensor on the spindle and a 2:1 belt drive from the 300 oz-in stepper motor to the lead screw. Also a 1 HP VFD on the spindle with just manual knob for speed control.
Because my South Bend has a taper attachment I never bothered adding the cross slide for fully automatic turning and tapering. And I haven't engaged the gears in over 5 years. But again it depends on what you want to do with the lathe when you are done.
For example: To create a new internal tapered pulley for my mill I first made a keyed arbor between centers. http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindlePulleyArbor.jpg
On that I turned a tapered hub with a 1.5mm thread that matched the clamping nut on the mill. Metric thread on a 1942 imperial lathe. http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Arbour-2.jpg
Terribly porous casting. Comes from only doing it once a year. But the pulley blank fits perfectly on the arbor. http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindlePulleyBuild-2.jpg
Tool just clears the pulley blank for turning. http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindlePulleyBuild-1.jpg
Both spindle pulleys done without gears on the lathe. http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/NewPulleys-1s.jpg
John Dammeyer
"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe" Automation Artisans Inc.
From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Kit Maira
Sent: September-21-20 7:22 AM To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io Subject: [SouthBendLathe] New member
Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale? I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.
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Re: New member
I ay be wrong on the Boxford.
I think its Myford. here is a link.
Jim B. -- Jim B
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Re: New member
I used to have a 405. first thing to know is that the gearing is 20 DP. Later workshops, 415 and on are 18 DP (except for the 415 twin gears, which you the 405 does not have). When I got my 405, it also did not have any gears except for the turning set up. Attached is a picture of the stub gear you are looking for. I dont believe Its mine. I dont remember ever having one. I did change my headstock over to a later side oiler one. Your oilers are not the same. In the top of the journals are small slices of felt. You should ASAP, remove the spindle and clean and replace those. Felt is available from McMaster-Carr. The rebuild kit is not for the 405. Now 22 DP gears are available for Boston gear. A I remember the bore and width are good. but the keyway, if needed is different. Look for the 20 DP gears. These are only sold through distributers. Some of the UK lathes use the same gears, If memory serves me, The Boxford did. A quick search using “Boxford Lathe Change Gears” got me here. Good luck with your “New” old lathe I have Included a link to Boston gear and the gearing arrangement chart from SB. I was lucky enough to get mine off eBay, but it took 5 years of looking. REMEMBER 20 DP not 18 DP.
Jim B. -- Jim B
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New member
Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 105 and Compound Gear 1-5. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale? I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.
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Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion
Glen Ruch
Thanks Louis
On 9/19/20 3:35 PM, Louis via groups.io
wrote:
Brian,
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Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion
Louis
Brian,
Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts. If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues. It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire. For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD. If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used! I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes. As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues. That's about all I can think of. Louis
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Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion
Nice - sounds like you are hooked up! That's what I did in my previous shop - ran a nice line to a sub panel for running a jumbo melting kiln, and some CNC equipment. I think we'll be moving in spring, and don't feel like investing the time in something I'll use briefly, and then someone else might not even appreciate (next owner). Brian,
On Friday, September 18, 2020, 12:50:59 PM EDT, comstock_friend <jfriend314@...> wrote: Best thing I did years ago was to pull 240 volts from the house main breaker to a 125 AMP sub panel in the garage. 240 single phase runs the Rotary Phase Converter. The RPC runs a Bridgeport, 13" South Bend and a Diamond B12 horizontal mill at 240/3/60. Yes, I'm changing belts but no changes in the electrical controls that came with the machines was required. The 240 single phase also runs my Lincoln welder... At the vacation house, my wife's Grandfather had already wired the shop for 240 single phase. I have a Rusnok vertical mill running on a Leeson 190 Volt DC motor (240/1/60 input to the controller). This can have the speed varied with a potentiometer. A Diamond 22M horizontal mill has a VFD attached to its 240/3/60 motor. John
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Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion
Best thing I did years ago was to pull 240 volts from the house main breaker to a 125 AMP sub panel in the garage. 240 single phase runs the Rotary Phase Converter. The RPC runs a Bridgeport, 13" South Bend and a Diamond B12 horizontal mill at 240/3/60. Yes, I'm changing belts but no changes in the electrical controls that came with the machines was required. The 240 single phase also runs my Lincoln welder...
At the vacation house, my wife's Grandfather had already wired the shop for 240 single phase. I have a Rusnok vertical mill running on a Leeson 190 Volt DC motor (240/1/60 input to the controller). This can have the speed varied with a potentiometer. A Diamond 22M horizontal mill has a VFD attached to its 240/3/60 motor. John
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Re: Serpentine belt question
Louis
Hadn't thought of using mig wire. Might give that a try. I just use nylon stranded cord rated 170 lb. Can't remember where I bought it. Either Lowes, HD or Ace Hdwr.
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