Date   

Re: TPI discrepancy

Phillip Rankin
 

Michael;
It would be helpful to know what model lathe you are using. The gear train on a model 9 inch isn't the same as the gear train on a 13 inch model.

P. Rankin


Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

mike allen
 

        thanks for the info !

        animal

On 7/26/2020 3:26 PM, m. allan noah wrote:
AFAIK, the bed and headstock on a series N is the same as a series O. The difference is entirely in the apron.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 10:55 AM david_g4000 via groups.io <dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
Animal,

There is some interesting history being posted in this thread. To
summarize some of it - It was a short production period for this higher
priced model, due to the economic times of the 1930's. The N was a high
precision "tool room" class lathe with a heavy headstock construction
and wide ways, among other features, that increased the cost to produce.
Also, the double tumbler feature came along in subsequent models. Some
of the controls are rather unique as well. Also, the apron design. I am
enjoying the contributions from many on this topic.

Dave

On 7/25/2020 7:49 PM, mike allen wrote:
> yea , I'm interested in learnin what the difference is between a type
> N & the other lathes
>
> ��� ��� animal
>
> On 7/25/2020 7:57 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
>> I've never used a Series N power feeds- how is it that the leadscrew
>> reverse tumbler direction controls facing vs turning?
>>
>> allan
>>


Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

david_g4000
 

Allan,

I see the differences now in the headstock design and the bed between the N and O series.

According to the SB Bulletins for each:

1. both headstocks were "internally webbed" for added strength and rigidity.

2. the N was provided a "hardened and ground spindle" with a choice of bearings, whereas the O was provided with a "special alloy spindle steel"

3. the lathe beds on the N series were provided with a "new semi-steel mixture containing 50% steel".� Whereas the O series were provided with "cast iron, containing 50% steel."

I could not compare the way dimensions, but the materials were different between the two. As you pointed out the aprons were different as well.

Thanks,

Dave


On 7/26/2020 6:26 PM, m. allan noah wrote:
AFAIK, the bed and headstock on a series N is the same as a series O. The difference is entirely in the apron.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 10:55 AM david_g4000 via groups.io <dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
Animal,

There is some interesting history being posted in this thread. To
summarize some of it - It was a short production period for this higher
priced model, due to the economic times of the 1930's. The N was a high
precision "tool room" class lathe with a heavy headstock construction
and wide ways, among other features, that increased the cost to produce.
Also, the double tumbler feature came along in subsequent models. Some
of the controls are rather unique as well. Also, the apron design. I am
enjoying the contributions from many on this topic.

Dave

On 7/25/2020 7:49 PM, mike allen wrote:
> yea , I'm interested in learnin what the difference is between a type
> N & the other lathes
>
> ��� ��� animal
>
> On 7/25/2020 7:57 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
>> I've never used a Series N power feeds- how is it that the leadscrew
>> reverse tumbler direction controls facing vs turning?
>>
>> allan
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 10:52 AM david_g4000 via groups.io
>> <dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
>>> That was the problem I was having too. Glad it is helpful Dan. If
>>> you see any updates needed, please let me know.
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Dan Beeker <debeeker@...>
>>> Date: 7/25/20 10:21 AM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources
>>>
>>> What a great resource. I use my 16�� Type N South Bend just often
>>> enough to forget how to switch between turning and threading. Your
>>> documents will fill a sacred spot on the wall beside my lathe. Thank
>>> you for posting the instructions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan Beeker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PureUnobtanium.com
>>>
>>> Indiana University - retired
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

david_g4000
 

Thanks Allan. Seems I need to do some research.

Dave

On 7/26/2020 6:26 PM, m. allan noah wrote:
AFAIK, the bed and headstock on a series N is the same as a series O. The difference is entirely in the apron.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 10:55 AM david_g4000 via groups.io <dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
Animal,

There is some interesting history being posted in this thread. To
summarize some of it - It was a short production period for this higher
priced model, due to the economic times of the 1930's. The N was a high
precision "tool room" class lathe with a heavy headstock construction
and wide ways, among other features, that increased the cost to produce.
Also, the double tumbler feature came along in subsequent models. Some
of the controls are rather unique as well. Also, the apron design. I am
enjoying the contributions from many on this topic.

Dave

On 7/25/2020 7:49 PM, mike allen wrote:
> yea , I'm interested in learnin what the difference is between a type
> N & the other lathes
>
> ��� ��� animal
>
> On 7/25/2020 7:57 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
>> I've never used a Series N power feeds- how is it that the leadscrew
>> reverse tumbler direction controls facing vs turning?
>>
>> allan
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 10:52 AM david_g4000 via groups.io
>> <dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
>>> That was the problem I was having too. Glad it is helpful Dan. If
>>> you see any updates needed, please let me know.
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Dan Beeker <debeeker@...>
>>> Date: 7/25/20 10:21 AM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources
>>>
>>> What a great resource. I use my 16�� Type N South Bend just often
>>> enough to forget how to switch between turning and threading. Your
>>> documents will fill a sacred spot on the wall beside my lathe. Thank
>>> you for posting the instructions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan Beeker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PureUnobtanium.com
>>>
>>> Indiana University - retired
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

m. allan noah
 

AFAIK, the bed and headstock on a series N is the same as a series O. The difference is entirely in the apron.


On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 10:55 AM david_g4000 via groups.io <dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
Animal,

There is some interesting history being posted in this thread. To
summarize some of it - It was a short production period for this higher
priced model, due to the economic times of the 1930's. The N was a high
precision "tool room" class lathe with a heavy headstock construction
and wide ways, among other features, that increased the cost to produce.
Also, the double tumbler feature came along in subsequent models. Some
of the controls are rather unique as well. Also, the apron design. I am
enjoying the contributions from many on this topic.

Dave

On 7/25/2020 7:49 PM, mike allen wrote:
> yea , I'm interested in learnin what the difference is between a type
> N & the other lathes
>
> ��� ��� animal
>
> On 7/25/2020 7:57 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
>> I've never used a Series N power feeds- how is it that the leadscrew
>> reverse tumbler direction controls facing vs turning?
>>
>> allan
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 10:52 AM david_g4000 via groups.io
>> <dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
>>> That was the problem I was having too. Glad it is helpful Dan. If
>>> you see any updates needed, please let me know.
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Dan Beeker <debeeker@...>
>>> Date: 7/25/20 10:21 AM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources
>>>
>>> What a great resource. I use my 16�� Type N South Bend just often
>>> enough to forget how to switch between turning and threading. Your
>>> documents will fill a sacred spot on the wall beside my lathe. Thank
>>> you for posting the instructions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan Beeker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PureUnobtanium.com
>>>
>>> Indiana University - retired
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>




Re: TPI discrepancy

m. allan noah
 

The leadscrew is 8 too, not 9. The gearbox input gear is 56 tooth, not 40.


On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 5:42 PM John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:

Threading isn't rocket science.  To me the 9 TPI leadscrew doesn't sound right but I don't know.  Maybe South Bends did come with that.

 

I'd put a dial indicator on the ways and then turn the lead screw by hand one turn with the half nut engaged and the backlash removed by first turning the leadscrew a few turns in the same direction.  If it's 8 TPI it would 0.125". If it's 9 TPI it's 0.11111111111111111111111…" which is not really logical.  Where if 10 TPI it's 0.1  Generally leadscrews are set up to not have infinite repeating decimals.

 

Next forget about the pitch you want and if the leadscrew is really 9 TPI then set up to cut 9 TPI.  Now the lead screw will turn exactly one turn for each turn of the spindle.  If that doesn't work again take a look at the gears.

 

John Dammeyer

 

"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"

Automation Artisans Inc.

www dot autoartisans dot com

 

 

 

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael R via groups.io
Sent: July-26-20 2:31 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] TPI discrepancy

 

Yep, using the half nuts for threading.

The gear configuration is as follows:
Top stud gear - 40t (according to my parts manual it should be 20t)
Idler gear - 80t
Stud gear to lead screw - 40t (this is correct as it's indicated on the gearbox thread chart)
Lead screw - 9p

Another issue with this machine is that the longitudinal power feed spins way too fast, not delivering a good finish.

Wondering if the top stud gear could be the culprit for both problems?


Re: TPI discrepancy

John Dammeyer
 

Threading isn't rocket science.  To me the 9 TPI leadscrew doesn't sound right but I don't know.  Maybe South Bends did come with that.

 

I'd put a dial indicator on the ways and then turn the lead screw by hand one turn with the half nut engaged and the backlash removed by first turning the leadscrew a few turns in the same direction.  If it's 8 TPI it would 0.125". If it's 9 TPI it's 0.11111111111111111111111…" which is not really logical.  Where if 10 TPI it's 0.1  Generally leadscrews are set up to not have infinite repeating decimals.

 

Next forget about the pitch you want and if the leadscrew is really 9 TPI then set up to cut 9 TPI.  Now the lead screw will turn exactly one turn for each turn of the spindle.  If that doesn't work again take a look at the gears.

 

John Dammeyer

 

"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"

Automation Artisans Inc.

www dot autoartisans dot com

 

 

 

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael R via groups.io
Sent: July-26-20 2:31 PM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] TPI discrepancy

 

Yep, using the half nuts for threading.

The gear configuration is as follows:
Top stud gear - 40t (according to my parts manual it should be 20t)
Idler gear - 80t
Stud gear to lead screw - 40t (this is correct as it's indicated on the gearbox thread chart)
Lead screw - 9p

Another issue with this machine is that the longitudinal power feed spins way too fast, not delivering a good finish.

Wondering if the top stud gear could be the culprit for both problems?


Re: TPI discrepancy

Michael R
 

Yep, using the half nuts for threading.

The gear configuration is as follows:
Top stud gear - 40t (according to my parts manual it should be 20t)
Idler gear - 80t
Stud gear to lead screw - 40t (this is correct as it's indicated on the gearbox thread chart)
Lead screw - 9p

Another issue with this machine is that the longitudinal power feed spins way too fast, not delivering a good finish.

Wondering if the top stud gear could be the culprit for both problems?


Re: TPI discrepancy

glenn brooks
 

Hmmm,  you can always cut a test thread and measure the actual pitch with a known gauge.


On Jul 26, 2020, at 12:07 PM, eddie.draper@... via groups.io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:


Oh dear!

Has whoever sold you the lathe kindly supplied a metric transposing gear (127 teeth) in the train under the cover on the left hand side?  Check the tooth counts for all the gears from spindle to gearbox input and see if they match what is in the catalogue.  There might be a listing somewhere in the files section.

I take it your leadscrew has an Imperial rather than metric pitch?  Worth a check.

Eddie

On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 19:46:42 BST, Michael R via groups.io <reflexermr@...> wrote:


I'm threading a backplate for the Jacobs collet chuck. The spindle is 8 tpi. I've checked that the gearbox levers are in the correct position and
did the obligatory scratch pass. The gage shows it closer to a 7 tpi than 8. Any thought as to what would cause this discrepancy?

This is the first time single pointing with this lathe.
Thanks,
Michael


Re: TPI discrepancy

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Oh dear!

Has whoever sold you the lathe kindly supplied a metric transposing gear (127 teeth) in the train under the cover on the left hand side?  Check the tooth counts for all the gears from spindle to gearbox input and see if they match what is in the catalogue.  There might be a listing somewhere in the files section.

I take it your leadscrew has an Imperial rather than metric pitch?  Worth a check.

Eddie

On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 19:46:42 BST, Michael R via groups.io <reflexermr@...> wrote:


I'm threading a backplate for the Jacobs collet chuck. The spindle is 8 tpi. I've checked that the gearbox levers are in the correct position and
did the obligatory scratch pass. The gage shows it closer to a 7 tpi than 8. Any thought as to what would cause this discrepancy?

This is the first time single pointing with this lathe.
Thanks,
Michael


Re: TPI discrepancy

comstock_friend
 
Edited

Correct end gears in the gear train? Using half nuts and not the feed knob/lever?

John


Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

comstock_friend
 

Dennis Turk has been playing over on Facebook

John


TPI discrepancy

Michael R
 

I'm threading a backplate for the Jacobs collet chuck. The spindle is 8 tpi. I've checked that the gearbox levers are in the correct position and
did the obligatory scratch pass. The gage shows it closer to a 7 tpi than 8. Any thought as to what would cause this discrepancy?

This is the first time single pointing with this lathe.
Thanks,
Michael


9" series o

Roger Bickers
 

ive got a 9" Series O (wide bed) that im going to part with. Itll need a compound (a bare one will work), it'll need the gear for the crossfeeds (I used it on another lathe (that lathe was sold)), itll also need a couple of gears in the apron. Ironically all the other apron gears look good, I figured someone took it apart to clean and either lost them, or died before it was put back together and they got lost that way.  The bed looks pretty good. No issues with the headstock or tailstock. Headstock gears and reversing lever n gears are in great shape. 
$450.00 

Roger


Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

david_g4000
 

Animal,

There is some interesting history being posted in this thread. To summarize some of it - It was a short production period for this higher priced model, due to the economic times of the 1930's. The N was a high precision "tool room" class lathe with a heavy headstock construction and wide ways, among other features, that increased the cost to produce. Also, the double tumbler feature came along in subsequent models. Some of the controls are rather unique as well. Also, the apron design. I am enjoying the contributions from many on this topic.

Dave

On 7/25/2020 7:49 PM, mike allen wrote:
yea , I'm interested in learnin what the difference is between a type N & the other lathes

��� ��� animal

On 7/25/2020 7:57 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
I've never used a Series N power feeds- how is it that the leadscrew
reverse tumbler direction controls facing vs turning?

allan

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 10:52 AM david_g4000 via groups.io
<dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
That was the problem I was having too. Glad it is helpful Dan. If you see any updates needed, please let me know.

-------- Original message --------
From: Dan Beeker <debeeker@indiana.edu>
Date: 7/25/20 10:21 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

What a great resource. I use my 16�� Type N South Bend just often enough to forget how to switch between turning and threading. Your documents will fill a sacred spot on the wall beside my lathe. Thank you for posting the instructions.



Dan Beeker



PureUnobtanium.com

Indiana University - retired





Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

Bill in OKC too
 

Good to hear. If you remember, tell him Bill Meyers from the old Yahoo Metal Shapers group said "Hello!"

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Saturday, July 25, 2020, 09:55:48 PM CDT, karlw144 via groups.io <karlw144@...> wrote:


Dennis is a good friend of mine and he is doing well. He’s as busy as ever restoring machines and building models. 


Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

karlw144
 

Dennis is a good friend of mine and he is doing well. He’s as busy as ever restoring machines and building models. 


Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

david_g4000
 

Thanks very much.

Dave

On 7/25/2020 8:09 PM, Jim_B wrote:
We used to have a member, Dennis Turk, who was a wealth of information on S B history. Here is some wisdom from him.



You can find an ???N??? catalog on Steve Wells site.
www.wswells.com.

Sent from my iPhone-8
Jim B,

On Jul 25, 2020, at 7:50 PM, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

??? yea , I'm interested in learnin what the difference is between a type N & the other lathes

animal

On 7/25/2020 7:57 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
I've never used a Series N power feeds- how is it that the leadscrew
reverse tumbler direction controls facing vs turning?

allan

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 10:52 AM david_g4000 via groups.io
<dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
That was the problem I was having too. Glad it is helpful Dan. If you see any updates needed, please let me know.

-------- Original message --------
From: Dan Beeker <debeeker@indiana.edu>
Date: 7/25/20 10:21 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

What a great resource. I use my 16??? Type N South Bend just often enough to forget how to switch between turning and threading. Your documents will fill a sacred spot on the wall beside my lathe. Thank you for posting the instructions.



Dan Beeker



PureUnobtanium.com

Indiana University - retired





Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

Bill in OKC too
 

Dennis was a great resource. I've not heard anything from him in a while now. Hope he's OK. Steve Well's site is also a great resource! I've got some of Dennis's info on metal shapers in the messages at my metal shapers group. Some of his info is still here in the messages, too. And his company website is still up, so he may just be busy. I hope. 

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Saturday, July 25, 2020, 07:09:35 PM CDT, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:


We used to have a member, Dennis Turk, who was a wealth of information on S B history. Here is some wisdom from him.



You can find an “N� catalog on Steve Wells site.
www.wswells.com.

-8
Jim B,

> On Jul 25, 2020, at 7:50 PM, mike allen <animal@...> wrote:
>
>         yea , I'm interested in learnin what the difference is between a type N & the other lathes
>
>        animal
>
>> On 7/25/2020 7:57 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
>> I've never used a Series N power feeds- how is it that the leadscrew
>> reverse tumbler direction controls facing vs turning?
>>
>> allan
>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 10:52 AM david_g4000 via groups.io
>>> <dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
>>> That was the problem I was having too. Glad it is helpful Dan. If you see any updates needed, please let me know.
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Dan Beeker <debeeker@...>
>>> Date: 7/25/20 10:21 AM (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources
>>>
>>> What a great resource. I use my 16â€�  Type N South Bend just often enough to forget how to switch between turning and threading. Your documents will fill a sacred spot on the wall beside my lathe. Thank you for posting the instructions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan Beeker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PureUnobtanium.com
>>>
>>> Indiana University - retired
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>


--
Jim B



Re: South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

Jim_B
 

We used to have a member, Dennis Turk, who was a wealth of information on S B history. Here is some wisdom from him.



You can find an “N” catalog on Steve Wells site.
www.wswells.com.

Sent from my iPhone-8
Jim B,

On Jul 25, 2020, at 7:50 PM, mike allen <animal@psln.com> wrote:

 yea , I'm interested in learnin what the difference is between a type N & the other lathes

animal

On 7/25/2020 7:57 AM, m. allan noah wrote:
I've never used a Series N power feeds- how is it that the leadscrew
reverse tumbler direction controls facing vs turning?

allan

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 10:52 AM david_g4000 via groups.io
<dmbanwarth=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
That was the problem I was having too. Glad it is helpful Dan. If you see any updates needed, please let me know.

-------- Original message --------
From: Dan Beeker <debeeker@indiana.edu>
Date: 7/25/20 10:21 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] South Bend Model "N" Owners - Resources

What a great resource. I use my 16” Type N South Bend just often enough to forget how to switch between turning and threading. Your documents will fill a sacred spot on the wall beside my lathe. Thank you for posting the instructions.



Dan Beeker



PureUnobtanium.com

Indiana University - retired





--
Jim B

501 - 520 of 103669