Date   

Re: 1954 9" model A headstock bearings

Steven H
 

I am in no way a SB lathe expert, but I would think you would want to release the bearing caps for spindle assembly just to gain a little clearance between the spindle and the sleeve bearings as you are sliding the spindle into place. Then once you have everything assembled, tighten the bearing caps as he shows using the dial indicator and rod to apply the upward pressure to check the clearance on each end.

Hopefully others will chime in. Good luck.

Steve Haskell

On Jul 24, 2018, at 7:11 PM, John Losch <johnlosch32@...> wrote:

7/24/18

Hello,

I am about to remove the spindle from my 1954 Model A 9” lathe, which I bought new in 1954.  It has been the workhorse of my shop for over sixty years, and is still nearly like new.  Except right in front of the chuck the scraping is still visible on the bed, and only the jaws of the 3 jaw scroll chuck show appreciable wear.  

Several years ago I replaced the Vee belt (16 speed Cone pulleys) and I admit I butchered the process of removing the spindle.  I used a wood mallet to drive the spindle out of the bull gear, replaced the belt and reversed the process.  Sorry I did that, but I am older and smarter now.  Right now I need to replace the spring-wick oilers because the front spindle bearing is not taking oil.

There is a series on you tube with a fellow named Halligan who gives a pretty detailed demonstration on removal and reinstallation of the spindle.  He seems to know his stuff.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eheyzA9h-yc   This is the part on reassembly (including that he forgot to put the endless belt in place), and I did not, at the moment, find the URL on removal of the spindle.  It involves the use of a long screw, and pressuring the spindle out of the bull gear.  All well and good, and I will follow his advice.  

There is one part I question, however.  He advises to loosen the cap screws at the front and rear bearing of the spindle.  This is the model with wick oilers, and only one screw at the front and rear bearings.  There is no top oiler.  The purpose was to allow shimming of the bearing.  He gives instructions on resetting the bearings, but I still wonder why I would “mess” with the still good settings.  I have checked play.  

My question is why would I disturb the setting of the bearings if they are within specification?  The spindle is designed so that the bearing areas of the spindle should slide in and out of their bearings unless they have been badly worn and shimming has been changed.  Nothing has been changed on my lathe. 

I would appreciate any advice or opinions more experienced South Bend Guys have to offer.  

Thanks in advance
John Losch 





















1954 9" model A headstock bearings

John Losch
 

7/24/18

Hello,

I am about to remove the spindle from my 1954 Model A 9” lathe, which I bought new in 1954.  It has been the workhorse of my shop for over sixty years, and is still nearly like new.  Except right in front of the chuck the scraping is still visible on the bed, and only the jaws of the 3 jaw scroll chuck show appreciable wear.  

Several years ago I replaced the Vee belt (16 speed Cone pulleys) and I admit I butchered the process of removing the spindle.  I used a wood mallet to drive the spindle out of the bull gear, replaced the belt and reversed the process.  Sorry I did that, but I am older and smarter now.  Right now I need to replace the spring-wick oilers because the front spindle bearing is not taking oil.

There is a series on you tube with a fellow named Halligan who gives a pretty detailed demonstration on removal and reinstallation of the spindle.  He seems to know his stuff.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eheyzA9h-yc   This is the part on reassembly (including that he forgot to put the endless belt in place), and I did not, at the moment, find the URL on removal of the spindle.  It involves the use of a long screw, and pressuring the spindle out of the bull gear.  All well and good, and I will follow his advice.  

There is one part I question, however.  He advises to loosen the cap screws at the front and rear bearing of the spindle.  This is the model with wick oilers, and only one screw at the front and rear bearings.  There is no top oiler.  The purpose was to allow shimming of the bearing.  He gives instructions on resetting the bearings, but I still wonder why I would “mess” with the still good settings.  I have checked play.  

My question is why would I disturb the setting of the bearings if they are within specification?  The spindle is designed so that the bearing areas of the spindle should slide in and out of their bearings unless they have been badly worn and shimming has been changed.  Nothing has been changed on my lathe. 

I would appreciate any advice or opinions more experienced South Bend Guys have to offer.  

Thanks in advance
John Losch 





















Re: 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

Steve Wells
 

On Jul 19, 2018, at 10:59 AM, eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:

Our 14.5" has a set of every 1/16 collets with it, some in poor condition (cracked).  I've tried to obtain others, and one supplier identified them as R4 size and as common as rocking horse manure.  The thread is 0.945" diameter, which is as near as makes no odds, 24 mm, although I haven't checked the pitch yet.

Can anyone confirm the bit about R4 and them being made of unobtainium, please?

Eddie



From: Steve Wells <wswells@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2018, 14:10
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

Hi John,
During and after WWII, the tapers were all revised to .602 except for the 10R which ended in 1951 with .623 taper.  The taper diameters were .938 for the 9/10K and 1.6295 for the large lathes. 
The older 14-1/2 had the same .602 taper, but the TD was 1.325

Steve


On Jul 19, 2018, at 1:50 AM, John M via Groups.Io <cudaboy66@...> wrote:

Steve do you by chance know the taper on the early 14 1/2" spindle , I know they had a Colet adapter but was curious if any other sizes could interchange or was the 14 1/2 on its own.



Re: 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

Steven H
 

Possibly check the workholding section at www.shophardinge.com, they have a lot of collet information.

Steve Haskell

On Jul 19, 2018, at 10:59 AM, eddie.draper@... via Groups.Io <eddie.draper@...> wrote:

Our 14.5" has a set of every 1/16 collets with it, some in poor condition (cracked).  I've tried to obtain others, and one supplier identified them as R4 size and as common as rocking horse manure.  The thread is 0.945" diameter, which is as near as makes no odds, 24 mm, although I haven't checked the pitch yet.

Can anyone confirm the bit about R4 and them being made of unobtainium, please?

Eddie



From: Steve Wells <wswells@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2018, 14:10
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

Hi John,
During and after WWII, the tapers were all revised to .602 except for the 10R which ended in 1951 with .623 taper.  The taper diameters were .938 for the 9/10K and 1.6295 for the large lathes. 
The older 14-1/2 had the same .602 taper, but the TD was 1.325

Steve


On Jul 19, 2018, at 1:50 AM, John M via Groups.Io <cudaboy66@...> wrote:

Steve do you by chance know the taper on the early 14 1/2" spindle , I know they had a Colet adapter but was curious if any other sizes could interchange or was the 14 1/2 on its own.



Re: 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Our 14.5" has a set of every 1/16 collets with it, some in poor condition (cracked).  I've tried to obtain others, and one supplier identified them as R4 size and as common as rocking horse manure.  The thread is 0.945" diameter, which is as near as makes no odds, 24 mm, although I haven't checked the pitch yet.

Can anyone confirm the bit about R4 and them being made of unobtainium, please?

Eddie



From: Steve Wells <wswells@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, 19 July 2018, 14:10
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

Hi John,
During and after WWII, the tapers were all revised to .602 except for the 10R which ended in 1951 with .623 taper.  The taper diameters were .938 for the 9/10K and 1.6295 for the large lathes. 
The older 14-1/2 had the same .602 taper, but the TD was 1.325

Steve


On Jul 19, 2018, at 1:50 AM, John M via Groups.Io <cudaboy66@...> wrote:

Steve do you by chance know the taper on the early 14 1/2" spindle , I know they had a Colet adapter but was curious if any other sizes could interchange or was the 14 1/2 on its own.



Re: 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

Steve Wells
 

Hi John,
During and after WWII, the tapers were all revised to .602 except for the 10R which ended in 1951 with .623 taper.  The taper diameters were .938 for the 9/10K and 1.6295 for the large lathes. 
The older 14-1/2 had the same .602 taper, but the TD was 1.325

Steve


On Jul 19, 2018, at 1:50 AM, John M via Groups.Io <cudaboy66@...> wrote:

Steve do you by chance know the taper on the early 14 1/2" spindle , I know they had a Colet adapter but was curious if any other sizes could interchange or was the 14 1/2 on its own.


fs 4jaw with MT 5 shank.

ken campbell
 

speaking of big lathes, i have an extra 4  jaw ( 8 inch ?? )  keyed chuck  with a shank of 5 MT.  thought i would mention it here before going to Ebay.    SW Iowa, $200 plus $40 shipping or PU . .. pics on request.  thanks, ken


Re: 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

John M
 

Steve do you by chance know the taper on the early 14 1/2" spindle , I know they had a Colet adapter but was curious if any other sizes could interchange or was the 14 1/2 on its own.


Re: What does "X" mean?

Steve Wells
 

The first generation 16" was introduced in July of 1912. The spindle was 2-3/8-8, nose length was 2".
That spindle ended in June of 1922, they reduced the nose length to 1-3/4.
In December of 1924 they change the spindle threads to 2-3/8-6, and changed the shoulder size to 2-15/16.
In December of 1926 they changed the Taper Diameter to 1.567
In December of 1939 the changed the Taper Diameter to 1.6295 and the shoulder to 2-7/8
These are the only 5 changes I know of, for the 16" threaded spindle, all were .602 taper

Steve Wells


Re: 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

Steve Wells
 


From 12-26-1939 to 9-8-1948 the 14-1/2 spindle was 2-1/4 - 6
Starting 5-26-1946 the 14-1/2 was available in 2-3/8 - 6
 
Steve Wells


Re: Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

faroutguy724@...
 

Don't know if this will help, but I have a 6 1/2" dog/faceplate with 2 1/4"- 6tpi that I don't have a current use for. Private message for details. -----  Denis


Re: 14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

John M
 

From what I can gather in information it was in the mid 40's they went to the 2 3/8-6 as a standard for the 14 1/2"  to match the 16".
But then again I've been told the 14 1/2 was the red headed step child as most went with the 16".


14.5 SB spindle .From cat. Dated 12-56. Page 15. Spindle nose diameter and threads 2 3/8"-6. Page 17 for 13" is 2 1/4-8

Robert Streaker
 


Re: Yahoo group still active?

Phillip Rankin
 

The group has not discombooberated. However, the group has left Yahoo Groups, and is now located at Groups.io (https://groups.io/g/SouthBendLathe). Groups.io is where the messages are originating from now.


On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 5:11 PM Terry McCreary <tmccreary@...> wrote:
Just wondering why I'm still getting posts from the Yahoo South Bend
group. I thought it was discombooberated.

Best -- Terry

--
Dr. Terry McCreary
Professor Emeritus
Murray State University
Murray KY  42071





Re: Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

Jim_B
 

There was a post on machining your own, with the question “How to”

 

If you have a faceplate, or a dog-plate, or even a backing plate on another chuck, you can attach the new backing plate to the faceplate/dog-plate/old backing plate.

 

 

In the above picture, a new faceplate is attached to a dog-plate. The threads on the faceplate were too long and a clearance step for the alignment step  is needed.

Note that there are spacers used to hold off the faceplate so any boring tool can extend through.

These are ground parallel plates.

You need to insure that the dog-plate is true to the lathe axis. If needed take a truing chip.

 

 

This is what a threading tool would look like.  This is a Heavy 10 so that is an 8 tpi thread.

 

 

The step was bored in this fashion.

 

 

You could remove the backing plate from an existing chuck. Use the existing holes in the existing plate plate

Drill larger  holes in the plate to be machined so they fall between the desired locations.

 

Now the OD of the new plate is critical. It often fits into a step on the chuck. If so, it should be a light press fit.

I put a VERY slight taper on mine so they locate and only about 3/16 is the press fit.

 

Finally on PM there is a good post, by Paula,  on machining a backing plate. Its dated 08/24/2006 at 02:40 PM

 

Jim B.

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

--
Jim B


Re: Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

eddie.draper@btinternet.com
 

Didn't I read a while back on here that the SB headstock mandrel thread is tapered in some strange way, just to compound your difficulties?  Does anyone know if this is the sort of thread that a taper turning attachment can put on OK, and whether it matters much anyway?  If true, and it mattered, you couldn't finish with an ordinary parallel tap.

Eddie



From: Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining@...>
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, 17 July 2018, 4:23
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

Guess you will have to purchase a blank chuck back plate and internally single point thread your own 2-1/4”-6 thread. That is easier said than done as you need a way to hold the backplate in order to do the machining. Or find a friend or a machine shop to do the work for you.

As of today on eBay, there is a 2-1/4-6 tap for sale at $175 plus $12 shipping. But that will take one large tap wrench to turn a tap that large.

Good luck.

Steve Haskell

On Jul 16, 2018, at 10:40 PM, John M via Groups.Io <cudaboy66@...> wrote:

Steven H,
I wish I was lucky and had the 2 1/4x 8tpi but sadly I do not, from what Ive seen its common on the 10" & 13" sb.
I have talked to a few 14 1/2 owners and sofar everyone I have spoken with either had the cam lock or 2 1/4 x 6 tpi thread on the spindle.

Attaching the 1943 cat reprint that covers all the lathes
<1943_reprint_Catalog_100C.pdf>



Re: Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

Steven H
 

Guess you will have to purchase a blank chuck back plate and internally single point thread your own 2-1/4”-6 thread. That is easier said than done as you need a way to hold the backplate in order to do the machining. Or find a friend or a machine shop to do the work for you.

As of today on eBay, there is a 2-1/4-6 tap for sale at $175 plus $12 shipping. But that will take one large tap wrench to turn a tap that large.

Good luck.

Steve Haskell

On Jul 16, 2018, at 10:40 PM, John M via Groups.Io <cudaboy66@...> wrote:

Steven H,
I wish I was lucky and had the 2 1/4x 8tpi but sadly I do not, from what Ive seen its common on the 10" & 13" sb.
I have talked to a few 14 1/2 owners and sofar everyone I have spoken with either had the cam lock or 2 1/4 x 6 tpi thread on the spindle.

Attaching the 1943 cat reprint that covers all the lathes
<1943_reprint_Catalog_100C.pdf>


Re: Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

John M
 

Steven H,
I wish I was lucky and had the 2 1/4x 8tpi but sadly I do not, from what Ive seen its common on the 10" & 13" sb.
I have talked to a few 14 1/2 owners and sofar everyone I have spoken with either had the cam lock or 2 1/4 x 6 tpi thread on the spindle.

Attaching the 1943 cat reprint that covers all the lathes


Yahoo group still active?

Terry McCreary
 

Just wondering why I'm still getting posts from the Yahoo South Bend group. I thought it was discombooberated.

Best -- Terry

--
Dr. Terry McCreary
Professor Emeritus
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071


Re: Looking for 14 1/2" Southbend parts

Steven H
 

There is a 2-1/4” six tap on eBay for $174 plus $12 shipping if that is indeed what you spindle thread is. You will need one heck of a large tap wrench to try and turn that size tap. You would be better off trying to single point internal thread 6 tpi on your lathe using the largest boring bar you have with a threading tool bit and then using the tap to finish up the thread. 

I just did a job that required a 1-3/8-6 internal thread for a woodworking customers wood lathe spindle. Made him an ER40 collet chuck body. Had a heck of a time trying to cut the internal thread on my Atlas 12” lathe but I think that was because of the puny little preground threading tool I was using. Ended up purchasing a used 1-3/8-6 tap of eBay and finishing up the thread that way and even then it took a lot of effort to turn the tap using a tap wrench with 40 inch long handles. I would have been better off using as large a boring bar as possible (say 1” diameter which I have) and grinding a 5/16” toolbit into a 60 degree threading tool and single pointing it on the lathe.

Steve Haskell

On Jul 16, 2018, at 2:51 PM, Steven H via Groups.Io <stevesmachining@...> wrote:

Get out a scale, a pair of calipers, or a thread pitch gage and check for 6 or 8 tpi. If 8 tpi, then .125” from crest to crest, if 6 tpi, then .167” from crest to crest. So what thread is you spindle regardless of whatever SB documentation you are looking at.

I have a printout of a South Bend CE3458 “installation, operation, maintenance, and parts manual” from 1995 that I found in the Group files and it has a lot of typographical errors  as far as item numbers on the diagrams. So perhaps whatever documentation you are looking at might also be in error as far as 6 or 8 threads per inch.

Steve Haskell

On Jul 16, 2018, at 2:06 PM, Jim_B <jim@...> wrote:

SB says 6 TPI for both the small and large collet

-8
Jim B,

On Jul 16, 2018, at 1:37 PM, Dave Eggebraaten (AF5IA) <eggebraa10@...> wrote:

It is 8 tpi.


On 7/15/2018 4:38 PM, John M via Groups.Io wrote:
I am a little confused, is the thread pitch on the 4 jaws backing 6 or 8 tpi?
I am looking for the 2 1/4x 6 tpi
John

Virus-free. www.avg.com


--
Jim B

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