Date   

Re: New member

Tyler
 

Welcome Kit,
I also have a 405 (#59162), and unless I am mistaken, someone has replaced your tailstock with one from a later 9".  The 405s usually had the tailstock cast with both sides open which allowed the wrench to be used from either side.  I would suggest double-checking the fit and alignment of your tailstock.

As others said, the gears are 20 DP so later gears will not fit unless you also change the spindle.  The spindle felts should definitely be replaced.  Fortunately, removing the spindle is pretty easy on this model, and if desired, it is possible to use a later headstock.  Keep in mind your leadscrew is LH thread, while the later ones are RH.  This could be an issue if you use a later headstock with a tumbler.


-Tyler


On Monday, September 21, 2020, 9:28:14 AM CDT, Kit Maira <kit.maira@...> wrote:


Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale?

I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. 

In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.


Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion

Louis
 

Brian - I would keep the original drive assembly if I had it and use the VFD to power it and add the variable speed capability. That way you have the best of both worlds. Plus I like to keep the original drive so it looks original. Some future owner might prefer that.

Guenther - My boxes are not from the same source. Typically I use whatever's lying around the shop or down at the local industrial surplus yard. Since I use remote controls I rarely need access so I have them both with doors or screwed on covers.  I maintain the manufacturers recommended clearances so that determines the minimum size. Sizes are roughly 16x12x7. I vent at the top and bottom. I modify typical duct venting covers with a piece of those green furnace filters on the inside. BTW, if you can't find a box locally, Factorymation has them in a wide variety of sizes.  It will cost you though.

Since I enclose the VFD, to get the speeds right I typically mount a speed table on or somewhere close to every machine that shows the configuration/pot setting needed.  

Adding one more thing. I've also built a portable VFD power unit. Just a VFD inside a correct size and vented plastic toolbox. It has externally mounted controls, an input cord and a 3 phase socket. I use it occasionally to temporarily power up or test 3 phase machines and motors.

Louis


Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion

Guenther Paul
 

Louis
Can you show me a picture of the box you use for the VFD and how you vent it. Do you use a filter over the box . Also where 
Can i get a the boxes. I am looking for a 12"x12"x12" box with a full access door . My electrical supplier does not have them in that size configuration 

GP


On Monday, September 21, 2020, 10:37:15 PM EDT, Brian via groups.io <bd_ski@...> wrote:


Hello Louis,

I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share your experience and thoughts on the VFD's and
what you've used. Your information really helped me out, and I'll put it to good use.

I do have a subsequent question - if I would go variable speed with a VFD, would I need to use the original
drive motor assembly/drive cone.?. or is that just a matter of preference?

Regards
Brian,

On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 03:35:17 PM EDT, Louis via groups.io <l_schoolkate@...> wrote:


Brian,

Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts.

If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues.

It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire.

For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. 

For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD.

If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used!

I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes.  

As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues.

That's about all I can think of.

Louis





 


Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion

 

Hello Louis,

I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share your experience and thoughts on the VFD's and
what you've used. Your information really helped me out, and I'll put it to good use.

I do have a subsequent question - if I would go variable speed with a VFD, would I need to use the original
drive motor assembly/drive cone.?. or is that just a matter of preference?

Regards
Brian,

On Saturday, September 19, 2020, 03:35:17 PM EDT, Louis via groups.io <l_schoolkate@...> wrote:


Brian,

Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts.

If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues.

It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire.

For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. 

For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD.

If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used!

I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes.  

As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues.

That's about all I can think of.

Louis





 


Re: New member

m. allan noah
 

The 405 should have 20 DP gears, IIRC. But, you should measure the OD and tooth count of your gears to be sure.

allan


On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 3:41 PM Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kit, I've got the 3D printer files from Thingiverse contributor dsell. The info on the gears he designed are as follows: 14.5 PA; 18 DP; 3/8" thick; 1/8" key; 9/16" hole. If you can find the same info on the gears your lathe takes, this will help you figure out if they can work for you. I've still not been able to figure out if they'll work on my Heavy 10L, but it's so far from being usable that's not a priority for me yet. I do have a 3D printer, and hope to be able to get to it one of these days. So far, I've printed one 127 tooth mini-lathe change gear, and several years after having printed it, I still can't tell you if it will actually work on the 7x10 mini-lathe. I purchased the 3d printer to make change gears for that, and my Atlas TH42, before I got the Heavy 10L. It should work to print them, also, but I'm not educated enough in the right areas to really figure that out yet. And there is the whole can't reach much of anything including the 3d printer. 

There is a group I started that might help you, you'd be welcome to join, if interested. https://groups.io/g/3D-Printing-for-Metal-Hobbyists/topics

I had planned on having all that sorted out by now, but my back has not been cooperating, and COVID-19 has made it harder to get the treatments that might solve the problem for a while, anyway. I do have an appointment this week to get another set of nerves burned, and that may let me do stuff again. I hope. If it works out, I'll be playing with mine again, and may be able to help you too. 

Seems to me Steve Wells has some info on the various sizes of change gears SB has used, but I need to go do some stuff for SWMBO, who has her own medical problems, including much worse back troubles than mine. 

HTH!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Monday, September 21, 2020, 09:28:13 AM CDT, Kit Maira <kit.maira@...> wrote:


Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale?

I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. 

In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.



--
"well, I stand up next to a mountain- and I chop it down with the edge of my hand"


Re: New member

Jim_B
 

I may be incorrect on Boxford. I think the 22 DP is Myford.
Here is a link to gears. 

Another thing, The spindle thread on your lathe is 1-3/8-10. Not 1-1/2-8 as are later lathes. 

Here are some other differences. 



On Sep 21, 2020, at 12:20 PM, Jim B. <jim@...> wrote:

I ay be wrong on the Boxford. 
I think its Myford. 
here is a link.



On Sep 21, 2020, at 11:50 AM, Jim B. <jim@...> wrote:

<Reversing stub.jpeg>

I used to have a 405. 
first thing to know is that the gearing is 20 DP. Later workshops, 415 and on are 18 DP (except for the 415 twin gears, which you the 405 does not have). 
When I got my 405, it also did not have any gears except for the turning set up. 
Attached is a picture of the stub gear you are looking for. I dont believe Its mine. I dont remember ever having one. 
I did change my headstock over to a later side oiler one. Your oilers are not the same. In the top of the journals are small slices of felt. You should ASAP, remove the spindle and clean and replace those. 
Felt is available from McMaster-Carr. The rebuild kit is not for the 405. 
Now 22 DP gears are available for Boston gear. A I remember the bore and width are good. but the keyway, if needed is different. 


Look for the 20 DP gears. These are only sold through distributers. 
Some of the UK lathes use the same gears, If memory serves me, The Boxford  did. 
A quick search using “Boxford Lathe Change Gears” got me here. 

Good luck with your “New” old lathe
<405 gearing set up.pdf>


I have Included a link to Boston gear and the gearing arrangement chart from SB. 
I was lucky enough to get mine off eBay, but it took 5 years of looking. 

REMEMBER  20 DP not 18 DP. 



On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Kit Maira <kit.maira@...> wrote:

Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale?

I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. 

In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.<B387A2DC-BB69-4873-A5D6-827BA8F5D21B.jpeg><32D772CD-48D7-402D-8001-789CF6C8B5C9.jpeg><E51401E1-7848-4EE3-A5B9-9FC3896C798B.jpeg><C472D207-DCBD-4D38-B66E-9FF81249076C.jpeg><1702AD4A-F4E6-47F7-871C-B5A63FDD1BCE.jpeg><ECBE2B29-8649-413C-BCD9-ACE7E0B1C2A8.jpeg><FA3AEA94-E059-4983-9AE1-B94497800F44.jpeg>


Jim B.





Jim B.





Jim B.





--
Jim B


Re: New member

Bill in OKC too
 

Kit, I've got the 3D printer files from Thingiverse contributor dsell. The info on the gears he designed are as follows: 14.5 PA; 18 DP; 3/8" thick; 1/8" key; 9/16" hole. If you can find the same info on the gears your lathe takes, this will help you figure out if they can work for you. I've still not been able to figure out if they'll work on my Heavy 10L, but it's so far from being usable that's not a priority for me yet. I do have a 3D printer, and hope to be able to get to it one of these days. So far, I've printed one 127 tooth mini-lathe change gear, and several years after having printed it, I still can't tell you if it will actually work on the 7x10 mini-lathe. I purchased the 3d printer to make change gears for that, and my Atlas TH42, before I got the Heavy 10L. It should work to print them, also, but I'm not educated enough in the right areas to really figure that out yet. And there is the whole can't reach much of anything including the 3d printer. 

There is a group I started that might help you, you'd be welcome to join, if interested. https://groups.io/g/3D-Printing-for-Metal-Hobbyists/topics

I had planned on having all that sorted out by now, but my back has not been cooperating, and COVID-19 has made it harder to get the treatments that might solve the problem for a while, anyway. I do have an appointment this week to get another set of nerves burned, and that may let me do stuff again. I hope. If it works out, I'll be playing with mine again, and may be able to help you too. 

Seems to me Steve Wells has some info on the various sizes of change gears SB has used, but I need to go do some stuff for SWMBO, who has her own medical problems, including much worse back troubles than mine. 

HTH!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)





On Monday, September 21, 2020, 09:28:13 AM CDT, Kit Maira <kit.maira@...> wrote:


Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale?

I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. 

In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.


Re: New member

John Dammeyer
 

I'd suggest you clean it up and add a spindle sensor and X/Z drives and use LinuxCNC or MACH to automate it.  You can still do manual operations with a CNC controller.  If you don't want full automation then something like my Electronic Lead Screw will replace the gears. 

 

I have my South Bend  Heavy 10LTumbler in neutral and the single lever gear box not engaged.  A single pulse per rev sensor on the spindle and a 2:1 belt drive from the 300 oz-in stepper motor to the lead screw.  Also a 1 HP VFD on the spindle with just manual knob for speed control. 

 

Because my South Bend has a taper attachment I never bothered adding the cross slide for fully automatic turning and tapering.  And I haven't engaged the gears in over 5 years.  But again it depends on what you want to do with the lathe when you are done.

 

For example:

To create a new internal tapered pulley for my mill I first made a keyed arbor between centers.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindlePulleyArbor.jpg

 

On that I turned a tapered hub with a 1.5mm thread that matched the clamping nut on the mill.  Metric thread on a 1942 imperial lathe.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Arbour-2.jpg

 

Terribly porous casting.  Comes from only doing it once a year.  But the pulley blank fits perfectly on the arbor.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindlePulleyBuild-2.jpg

 

Tool just clears the pulley blank for turning.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindlePulleyBuild-1.jpg

 

Both spindle pulleys done without gears on the lathe.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/NewPulleys-1s.jpg

 

John Dammeyer

 

"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"

Automation Artisans Inc.

http://www.autoartisans.com

 

 

 

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Kit Maira
Sent: September-21-20 7:22 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: [SouthBendLathe] New member

 

Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale?

I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. 

In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.


Re: New member

Jim_B
 

I ay be wrong on the Boxford. 
I think its Myford. 
here is a link.



On Sep 21, 2020, at 11:50 AM, Jim B. <jim@...> wrote:

<Reversing stub.jpeg>

I used to have a 405. 
first thing to know is that the gearing is 20 DP. Later workshops, 415 and on are 18 DP (except for the 415 twin gears, which you the 405 does not have). 
When I got my 405, it also did not have any gears except for the turning set up. 
Attached is a picture of the stub gear you are looking for. I dont believe Its mine. I dont remember ever having one. 
I did change my headstock over to a later side oiler one. Your oilers are not the same. In the top of the journals are small slices of felt. You should ASAP, remove the spindle and clean and replace those. 
Felt is available from McMaster-Carr. The rebuild kit is not for the 405. 
Now 22 DP gears are available for Boston gear. A I remember the bore and width are good. but the keyway, if needed is different. 


Look for the 20 DP gears. These are only sold through distributers. 
Some of the UK lathes use the same gears, If memory serves me, The Boxford  did. 
A quick search using “Boxford Lathe Change Gears” got me here. 

Good luck with your “New” old lathe
<405 gearing set up.pdf>


I have Included a link to Boston gear and the gearing arrangement chart from SB. 
I was lucky enough to get mine off eBay, but it took 5 years of looking. 

REMEMBER  20 DP not 18 DP. 



On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Kit Maira <kit.maira@...> wrote:

Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale?

I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. 

In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.<B387A2DC-BB69-4873-A5D6-827BA8F5D21B.jpeg><32D772CD-48D7-402D-8001-789CF6C8B5C9.jpeg><E51401E1-7848-4EE3-A5B9-9FC3896C798B.jpeg><C472D207-DCBD-4D38-B66E-9FF81249076C.jpeg><1702AD4A-F4E6-47F7-871C-B5A63FDD1BCE.jpeg><ECBE2B29-8649-413C-BCD9-ACE7E0B1C2A8.jpeg><FA3AEA94-E059-4983-9AE1-B94497800F44.jpeg>


Jim B.





Jim B.





--
Jim B


Re: New member

Jim_B
 


I used to have a 405. 
first thing to know is that the gearing is 20 DP. Later workshops, 415 and on are 18 DP (except for the 415 twin gears, which you the 405 does not have). 
When I got my 405, it also did not have any gears except for the turning set up. 
Attached is a picture of the stub gear you are looking for. I dont believe Its mine. I dont remember ever having one. 
I did change my headstock over to a later side oiler one. Your oilers are not the same. In the top of the journals are small slices of felt. You should ASAP, remove the spindle and clean and replace those. 
Felt is available from McMaster-Carr. The rebuild kit is not for the 405. 
Now 22 DP gears are available for Boston gear. A I remember the bore and width are good. but the keyway, if needed is different. 


Look for the 20 DP gears. These are only sold through distributers. 
Some of the UK lathes use the same gears, If memory serves me, The Boxford  did. 
A quick search using “Boxford Lathe Change Gears” got me here. 

Good luck with your “New” old lathe


I have Included a link to Boston gear and the gearing arrangement chart from SB. 
I was lucky enough to get mine off eBay, but it took 5 years of looking. 

REMEMBER  20 DP not 18 DP. 



On Sep 21, 2020, at 10:22 AM, Kit Maira <kit.maira@...> wrote:

Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 1-5 and Compound Gear 105. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale?

I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. 

In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.<B387A2DC-BB69-4873-A5D6-827BA8F5D21B.jpeg><32D772CD-48D7-402D-8001-789CF6C8B5C9.jpeg><E51401E1-7848-4EE3-A5B9-9FC3896C798B.jpeg><C472D207-DCBD-4D38-B66E-9FF81249076C.jpeg><1702AD4A-F4E6-47F7-871C-B5A63FDD1BCE.jpeg><ECBE2B29-8649-413C-BCD9-ACE7E0B1C2A8.jpeg><FA3AEA94-E059-4983-9AE1-B94497800F44.jpeg>


Jim B.





--
Jim B


New member

Kit Maira
 
Edited

Just bought my first South Bend lathe. It is marked South Bend Workshop Precision 9” with a 3’ bed. I am told it is a 405, manufactured in 1935. Unfortunately it is missing the reversing stud and gear, as will as most of the change gears. The only gears included are marked Turning Gear 105 and Compound Gear 1-5. I am also missing the reversing stud and gear. I would like to find these parts, without buying the wrong stuff through trial and error. Anyone have these parts for sale?

I was thinking that maybe the gears could be 3D printed as a last resort, but the patterns on Thingiverse are for the later 9” model. I don’t have a 3D printer anyway, but maybe could have them made if someone has done the work already. 

In any case, thanks for having me, it is great that this resource exists.


Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion

Glen Ruch
 

Thanks Louis

On 9/19/20 3:35 PM, Louis via groups.io wrote:
Brian,

Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts.

If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues.

It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire.

For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. 

For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD.

If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used!

I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes.  

As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues.

That's about all I can think of.

Louis





 


Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion

Louis
 

Brian,

Based on my experience with repowering machines over the past 20 years and having half a dozen machines here running vfd's, here's my thoughts.

If you want or need variable speed, a VFD is the way to go. I've tried a treadmill motor once and wasn't happy. A vfd (especially the newer sensorless vector types) works much better. The controls are more flexible and they adapt well to a wide variety of 3 ph motors. I've run everything from a new VFD rated 2Hp motor to an antique motor made around 1900 (with cotton insulated wiring) with no issues.

It's very easy to run the low voltage VFD control wiring. Much easier than 12v IMHO. Just make sure to use shielded wire.

For a mill, a vfd rated to match the motor HP works fine with no issues. For a lathe, especially a larger one with bigger chucks, it's probably a good idea to get a vfd rated higher. Otherwise a large chuck slowing down will likely throw an error code. The OP mentioned using a braking resister but I haven't taken that path so far. 

For a 3 Ph motor rated at 1HP or lower, a VFD rated for 110v 1ph input, 220v 3 Ph output will work fine. I have a small mill and a shaper running that way with no issues. For motors over 1 Hp you need 220v so you can run an appropriately sized 220v 1 ph input 3Ph output VFD.

If you don't need variable speed, your typical small 1 Ph induction motors work fine for most machine tools provided you have something in place that gives you the correct speeds for what you want to do. I have several 1 Ph motors from 1/2 to 2 Hp that have been running for a long time with no issues. I have burned single phase motors out a couple of times but they were very well used!

I you install a VFD, make sure it's well clear of chips. All it takes is a tiny piece of metal to short it all out. Mine are mostly installed inside vented, grounded dedicated boxes.  

As for VFD brands, I standardized on Teco quite some time back. Other than one failure almost right out of the box that was replaced on warranty, no issues so far. I buy mine from either Dealers Industrial up in New Jersey or FactoryMation in Georgia. They seem to have decent prices and I've had good service from both with no issues.

That's about all I can think of.

Louis





 


Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion

 

Nice - sounds like you are hooked up! That's what I did in my previous shop -
ran a nice line to a sub panel for running a jumbo melting kiln, and some CNC equipment.

I think we'll be moving in spring, and don't feel like investing the time in something I'll use
briefly, and then someone else might not even appreciate (next owner).

Brian,

On Friday, September 18, 2020, 12:50:59 PM EDT, comstock_friend <jfriend314@...> wrote:


Best thing I did years ago was to pull 240 volts from the house main breaker to a 125 AMP sub panel in the garage. 240 single phase runs the Rotary Phase Converter. The RPC runs a Bridgeport, 13" South Bend and a Diamond B12 horizontal mill at 240/3/60. Yes, I'm changing belts but no changes in the electrical controls that came with the machines was required. The 240 single phase also runs my Lincoln welder...

At the vacation house, my wife's Grandfather had already wired the shop for 240 single phase. I have a Rusnok vertical mill running on a Leeson 190 Volt DC motor (240/1/60 input to the controller). This can have the speed varied with a potentiometer. A Diamond 22M horizontal mill has a VFD attached to its 240/3/60 motor.

John


Re: Serpentine > Motor conversion

comstock_friend
 

Best thing I did years ago was to pull 240 volts from the house main breaker to a 125 AMP sub panel in the garage. 240 single phase runs the Rotary Phase Converter. The RPC runs a Bridgeport, 13" South Bend and a Diamond B12 horizontal mill at 240/3/60. Yes, I'm changing belts but no changes in the electrical controls that came with the machines was required. The 240 single phase also runs my Lincoln welder...

At the vacation house, my wife's Grandfather had already wired the shop for 240 single phase. I have a Rusnok vertical mill running on a Leeson 190 Volt DC motor (240/1/60 input to the controller). This can have the speed varied with a potentiometer. A Diamond 22M horizontal mill has a VFD attached to its 240/3/60 motor.

John


Re: Serpentine belt question

Louis
 

Hadn't thought of using mig wire. Might give that a try. I just use nylon stranded cord rated 170 lb. Can't remember where I bought it. Either Lowes, HD or Ace Hdwr.


Re: South Bend 9": what does 480 YN mean?

Vince Eugenio
 

Hi Jim,

Thanks so much for the information which is helping me to understand all the nuances associated with my new to me 9" 480 YN. I would be very interested in hearing more about the spare parts you have. Thanks!!!

--

Regards,

Vince

Vince Eugenio, PhD HCS CCMC
Senior Learning and Development Leader
404 277 2426
http://www.linkedin.com/in/vinceeugeniophd


Re: South Bend 9": what does 480 YN mean?

Jim_B
 

According to my data, the Model 480 is a Series N QCGB based on the model 80. but with horizontal drive. 


480
9"
N
QCGB


See 1930 Model 80 but with  horizontal drive

The attached is from the 1930 cSB catalogue #8 found on Steve Wells site. www.wswells.com

Sorry to say the BUT I doubt if the rebuild kit will do anything for you. The series N lathes are different animals. 

Here is some information from the files. 

Now I do have some N parts for a 9 inch and I will tell you that the N was a breed of cat all its own.  The saddles will not interchange with a bed for an O R S and T lathes.  The apron from an N will not bolt onto any of the other series saddles.  The quick change gear box is different as the lead screw exits the box in a different place as required buy the apron gears.  Also the end bracket for the lead screw is different and will not interchange.   Just some observations.  When I got these parts as I figured I could build an N series lathe with parts I have but I find that I cant without an N bed.

Dennis T

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Wells 
  Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 9:01 AM
  Subject: RE: [southbendlathe] Half Nuts


    

  The 160 was an ìNî series 9 inch cast base under-drive. It still would be considered

  a ìwide-bedî lathe. The N series had improved spindle hardness, the new double wall apron with

  multi disk wet clutch and a ìpush-pullî feed shifter. The three wide-bed series O, N, & R ran in production in the 30ís together.

  This N series ran until aprox 1937-38 being replaced by the T series which was the improved R series

  with Double wall apron, shifter and tapered gibs.

  The S series replaced all older wide-bed series in the next model year (39-40)

  with improved headstock oiling, super-finished spindle and all other features of the T series.


  Steve Wells 

Its important to for all the members to remember that SB made many different 9” lathes, with the later Workshop being more common, and that the Workshop parts and data will not work with these other lathes. 
Thats not to say they were bad or not goood lathes, They were very good. They are just not common and finding parts may be difficult. 



On Sep 16, 2020, at 2:51 PM, Vince Eugenio <vince.eugenio.phd@...> wrote:

Hi folks! 

I am new to this group.  I will be picking up my 9" 480 YN next Saturday.  As I have been doing my research,  I have been stumped on not finding any information on what the 480 or the N means. Any information would be helpful. 

BTW, this was the lathe recently on eBay in New York. I have ordered the rebuild kit from Steve and am excited to be bringing this fine machine back to life!!

Thanks!

Vince 

Jim B.





--
Jim B


South Bend 9": what does 480 YN mean?

Vince Eugenio
 

Hi folks! 

I am new to this group.  I will be picking up my 9" 480 YN next Saturday.  As I have been doing my research,  I have been stumped on not finding any information on what the 480 or the N means. Any information would be helpful. 

BTW, this was the lathe recently on eBay in New York. I have ordered the rebuild kit from Steve and am excited to be bringing this fine machine back to life!!

Thanks!

Vince 


Re: Serpentine belt question

John Dammeyer
 

For your ribbed belts what do you use for lacing?  I used MIG wire and it's only now after 10 years or so starting to break where it's flexing or work hardened.  One of these days I will need to lace it again. 

 

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Louis via groups.io
Sent: September-16-20 11:10 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Serpentine belt question

 

Just want to add the option of belt lacing to the discussion. I run both leather and serpentine belts on different machines in my shop and most are laced. That goes both for the leather and serpentine belts.
I find that lacing gives at least as smooth a drive as the glued joints I once used. I use high strength nylon (170 pound) for lacing with from 6 to 9 strands depending on width. Even for the serpentine belts I haven't had any issues and lacing them means you can cut to the exact length needed. I lace them in the gaps between the ribs. In all cases I drill the holes and use a heavy needle for lacing.