Re: spindle lube


ChristopherS
 

I must confess that I'm going to be 60 in June. Therefore I wasn't even born when 1942 rolled in, I just have enormous respect for what my Dad's generation did. He was a master machinist and I lost him recently. I guess I miss him and his wisdom.
 
No disrespect was meant to you or anyone who holds modern technology in high esteem. How could I? I made electronics my profession for the last 40 years. I started out with vacuum tubes and now have to deal with components that my aging eyes can barely see. I think I've been soldering for the last few years by instinct.
 
All good fun,
Chris 
 
 


Gary Mason wrote:

Gents,
I take your point about 1942 not exactly being the stone age!.......but it was before my time....lol......geez some of you are showing your age....lol.
 My thoughts were that in 1942 the Southbend lathe bed castings were more likely to be horizontal planed and then the other parts H/S, T/S, Saddle etc were hand scraped to final fit?as a new machine. To recondition an existing bed I imagine a lot of hand scraping,bluing to master gauges would have been the process?
 As an apprentice I recall an old machine fitter nearing retirement systematically pulling down the lathes in the apprentice area and o/hauling the beds by hand scraping. I don't recall seeing any beds sent away for a precision grinding?
Regards,
Gary.

Chris Strazzeri wrote:
Just a thought or two here. 1942 wasn't exactly the stone age. Magnificent machines were mass produced. B17's, Iowa class battleships with awesome 16 inch guns, F4 Corsair's, P38's and P51 Mustangs were in prototype. Behemoth Big-Boys rolled on our rails. And let us not forget the M1 Garand which in my opinion is finest and definitely the most rugged military rifle ever made. The M14 comes in a close second as it was a child of the Garand. And oh those M2 50Cal's oorah! They're still in use today.
 
Anyone out there ever heard of the "Proximity Fuse"? It was a US secret that rivaled the Nordon Bomb Sight. Imagine stuffing fragile glass vacuum tube circuitry in the business end of an artillery shell. The shock and G forces were enormous but those 1942 cave men did it! With sticks and sharp rocks I think!:)
 
Jeez, looking back over the nostalgia that I wrote gives me pause. Everything except the Big-Boy is military. Go figure! I wonder what a shrink would say???
 
Chris


Gary Mason wrote:
Hi,
I'm awaiting the arrival of a used saddle for my 9B, then the ways on the bed and the saddle ways will be matched and precision ground.In 1942 hand scraping the bed  was probably the most realistic option, but with the improvements in the machinery for machine tool reconditioning in todays world I'll opt for grinding.
Regards,
Gary.

wheelhousesteam wrote:

Abrasive technology may offer the answr to hand scraping:

"On high quality machine tools the Ways are hand scraped to this
accuracy because is is practictally impossible to grind accurate V-
ways. (THe loss of form or diameter resulting from a single pass os a
grinding wheel down the lenth of a bed is sufficient to "throw" the
ways "off")

The Care and Operation of a lathe- Sheldon Machine Co. 1942
pg. 11

Tom

--- In southbendlathe@..., nwinblad@... wrote:
>
> Thank you to everyone who took the time to submit such thoughful
replies on lathe lubrication. I am learning a lot from them. With
this new understanding I am sure I will be in a better position to do
the right thing when it comes to lubrication. I wouldn't mind my
lathe lasting another 60 years.
>
> I thought up one other question regarding lubrication that has been
knocking around in my old noggin for a bit: I asked the question of
why we need to scrape the ways now tht grinders can get them nice and
straight? The answer I got was that the scraping provides a rough
surface to hold lubricant. But, then I got to thinking, South Bend
micro grinds the spindle bearing surface to 50 millionths of an inch
to provide longer life to the bearings. Would the scraping logic
suggest that they should take sand paper to them instead. Or, would
it suggest that polished ways would last longer? Or, are they quite
different models with respect to how the oil flows to these surfaces?
>
> Neal
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "John"
>
> Hi Neal
>
> A lecture is well beyond me but here are a few thoughts on the
matter.
>
> 'Infernal' combustion engines make great demands on oils due to
churning, heat, water, blow-by gases, etc so the detergents and other
additives help keep the motor 'clean'. Plus the oil is filtered hence
the need to keep contaminants in suspension so they can be scavenged
by the filtering system.
>
> By comparison machine tools are much cleaner and have less
stressful operating conditions so the most of the additives are not
needed and contaminants need to be able to fall out of suspension and
so leave the machine or fall to the bottom of the gearbox etc where
they can be flushed out when the oil is next changed.
>
> All oil is hygroscopic to some extent so regularly changing the
stuff (especially if the oil remains in the machine eg gearbox) is
essential. Hydraulic oils have anti-corrosive additives added, but
yes hydraulic parts are chromed or made of corrosion resistant metals
such as stainless. I suspect the operating environment of such
equipment has more of a corrosive effect than the absorbed water.
>
> Perhaps there is an oil expert on the list who could set us all
straight on this very important topic?
>
> Cheers
> John B
> Sydney, Australia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neal Winblad
> To: southbendlathe@...
> Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 4:31 PM
> Subject: RE: [southbendlathe] Re: spindle lube
>
>
> Maybe I'm just dumb, but I can't figure out why, if motor oil
suspends
> the grit and becomes a lapping slurry, we would want to put it in
our
> engines and wear down all the bearings in them? Can somebody fill
me in.
> I don't want to wear out my engine early. Should I use 3-in-1 oil
in my
> car to avoid this? Is it just that motor oil holds up to temperature
> better? If detergent keeps the little nooks and crannies of an
> automobile engine clean, wouldn't it do the same for a lathe? If
motor
> oil has gotten so good that now you only need to change it every
7500
> miles and when I was a kid we had to change it every 3000 miles,
then
> has spindle oil and way oil and 3-in-1 oil also improved with time
and
> technology? Are all hydraulic cylinders and pumps made of stainless
> steel or chromed so they don't rust or is the oil so hygroscopic
that
> the water preferentially bonds with the oil so none is left to cause
> rust? I recently used a mister which has a mix rate of 1
part "stuff" to
> 50 parts water. It kept the part really cool, I think from the water
> evaporating in the compressed air stream thus pulling heat out of
the
> airstream. Is keeping the part cool sufficient, or is there a
> lubricating function of "cutting oil" which is somewhat lost with a
> mister and practically pure water formula? Questions that have been
> bouncing around in the back of my head for a while. Can someone
give a
> mini-lecture on this?
>
> Neal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: southbendlathe@...
> [mailto:southbendlathe@...] On Behalf Of kc1fp
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:21 PM
> To: southbendlathe@...
> Subject: [southbendlathe] Re: spindle lube
>
> Mineral oil? Is the spindle constipated?
>
> Why do so many people want to use something other than spindle oil
in
> the resevoirs of the SB lathe spindles. It is low cost, readily
> available and the system was designed for its use. You have a
> lubrication system based upon capillary action of the felt wicks
and a
> small temperature gradient. It works very well with Spindle oil, but
> not very well with mineral oil which is what ATF is, along with misc
> chemicals. I think extra virgin olive oil might work better than
ATF.
>
> Then we have the gearheads with motor oil. They must like having
> particles kept in suspension grinding on the spindle; or the real
> smart ones who like to use hydraulic oil and water. Yes, hydraulic
oil
> is hydroscopic, it absorbs water from the air. Maybe they like the
> color of rust.
>
> I will never understand it.
>
> JP
>
>
> --- In southbendlathe@..., "seikosman"
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you all for your input; sounds like it's unanimous;  I've
been
> > using ATF and had no problem; guess I'd better stick with it!
> >
> > Rick A.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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