Re: Milling Table


Bill in OKC too
 

The high school I attended no longer exists, which figures. It was the best one in the Whittier Unified School District. Sierra HS, Whittier, CA. Plastics was a course of it's own, and I took that waiting for a slot in the machine shop class, which I go my final semester, just before graduating in June of 1973. Use the SB lathe and shaper to make a tap wrench, and a small riveting hammer. Gave those to my Grandpa, and then got them back after he passed on in 1977. I think they may still be here someplace. I have two sheds full of boxes that haven't gotten much disturbed in the past 25 years. Spent 38 years looking for a lathe I could afford before I found one. I was in Germany twice, drooling over an Emco Maximat 5, I think it was. Some of the German department stores had lathes for sale. Couldn't get enough cash to buy one the first time, in 1984, when I was up there for a surgery they couldn't handle in Turkey, and the second time I was there was in 1991-1996, when the exchange rate between the Mark and Dollar flipped, and I couldn't afford it again. In 2008 we got a Harbor Freight in OKC, and I got my HF 93212 mini-lathe for, I think, $369, with tax and the 20% discount coupon. Might have been $269. Anyway, and despite the internet, I'd forgotten EVERYTHING I'd learned in the class, and had to start all over again. I also wasn't getting enough practice, so it was essentially time wasted until I started the new class in early 2015. I completed a couple of their projects in one try. And a few took as many as ten attempts to get right enough to pass the 85% standard. I can't see anyone hiring me as a machinist unless they're absolutely desperate. Like post-apocalypse desperate. ;)

I have successfully been several kinds of mechanic and electronics tech, and I enjoy that kind of work, but I wanted to branch out a bit. So now I'm leafing, and going to see if I can figure out a way around my little shop catastrophe. My lathe stand I cobbled together isn't going to work as is.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)




On Monday, August 9, 2021, 02:47:23 PM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:


Hi Bill,

Way back in 1967 the Grade 8 Shop class taught printing, pottery, wood working, plastic vacuum forming and metal working.  As part of the general all around education for boys (girls were not allowed to take that class). 

 

The metal working project used a drill press for drilling holes, hack saw for cutting 1/4" steel rod, tap and die for making 1/4-20 holes, a lathe for making a handle from aluminium and a shaper for cutting teeth on a block.  All to make a meat tenderizing hammer. 

 

Still have it.  See attached photo.  Still use it.  I guess that makes it 54 years old now?

 

My next foray into real metal working was the purchase of a Unimat DB-200 in the early 80's after a gas welding course in the mid 70's.  I tried to make a robot arm with that lathe/mill.  Big failure.  Didn't really know what I was doing.    After that it wasn't until the mid 90's that I discovered the Gingery Series of books in the Library.  I was hooked.  There really isn't anything better than making your own slip roll, power hacksaw etc to create a furnace to create a lathe.    Follow the direction exactly (also an important critical skill) and the metal working education improves. 

 

The Gingery gets very little use now that I have the Heavy 10L.

 

I'll also be the first to say I'm still an incompetent machinist.  I wouldn't hire me.  My mistakes outweigh the successes.

 

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill in OKC too via groups.io
Sent: August-09-21 11:52 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Milling Table

 

Despite have spent the past 6+ years and still not having completed what was supposed to be a precision manual machining class, I am not, and probably never will be, a professional machinist. Even though that is the point of the class I'm taking. But I've spent a fair portion of the past 48 years reading everything I could lay my hands on (and collecting as much as I could) on machining, and making things. Fair bit of practice in making, too, but very little of it involved machine tools until about 13 years ago. Since storage capacities and display capabilities have increased markedly in the past dozen or so years, also, I'm developing a backlog of stuff I have collected but not yet read. And frankly, I've not been focused enough to get good at much of anything, but one thing I'm seeing in my class, which is really a feeder for the CNC Machining course, is that many things that were standard practice in machine shops are dropping out of the processes these days. My school does not teach anything about turning between centers, for example. They don't have any faceplates in the class area. They do mention centers, but don't actually have any. They have one lathe set up with a taper attachment, and one more with a collet closer. I've learned enough that I could probably get an entry-level job as a manual machinist in a manual shop, once I complete the little bit of the class I have left to do. Maybe. If there are any such jobs any more.

Would I have the skills to do something like design an ELS system, and retrofit it to my SB Heavy 10L? Not hardly! But I know a guy who has...
If I ever manage to get my fill of manual machining, and I live a lot longer than I really expect to, I might someday start thinking seriously about learning more about this CNC fad. ;)

I am keeping a copy of your Custom Bolts.pdf file for the day when I might need such a thing, myself. Just in case! I can see places where it would be handy evening if I'm not working on anything like a CNC or ELS system.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)



On Monday, August 9, 2021, 12:46:27 PM CDT, John Dammeyer <johnd@...> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,

I agree that sometimes we tend to forget that we can build a solution rather than buy.  As an example,

 

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/CustomBolts.pdf

 

With the end result being able to use the mill to solidly hold a tap and power tap.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/Tapping10-32.jpg

 

Scary to watch but really cool.

 

And yes, sometimes the best way to hold something on the lathe is with a good solid faceplate.

 

John

 

 

From: SouthBendLathe@groups.io [mailto:SouthBendLathe@groups.io] On Behalf Of wmrmeyers@...
Sent: August-09-21 6:06 AM
To: SouthBendLathe@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthBendLathe] Milling Table

 

I can't do everything he listed yet, either. And since I'm already 66 years old, I may not make it ever. It is inspiration and aspiration. Among other things, he felt that folks like me who can't handle higher maths are "at best, tolerable subhumans." So I'll be as tolerable as I can manage, and not worry about it otherwise. ;)

I spent years of my life wishing I could do stuff. I didn't have the right tools, or the right knowledge. One day, I realized that was bullshit. When Joseph Whitworth didn't have the right tools, he made them. He took ideas other had, put them together with some of his own, and applied the skills he had to make new and different things. Me? I need something, I can probably order it from Amazon, or Ebay, or 3D print it, or have someone else do that for me. One thing I did to change things was take a class. Another was to start buying tools that could help me make the stuff I wanted. I've probably got 40 or 50 files. Still don't have all I want, either. One nice thing about files is that you don't need steam, electricity, water, or anything else other than a chunk of metal and a bit of elbow grease. ;) And although I live in a bit of a machinery desert (until you like LARGE lathes and mills) I have managed to acquire a few machine tools. That class has been teaching me how to use some of them, and I've also been learning how to repair them, mostly on my own, by watching videos on YouTube and the like. I do have a bit of a mechanical background. My dad had a 30x50 workshop with an old Craftsman welder and drill press, a home-made wooden table saw, and hand tools. Grandpa had more hand tools, and a DIY attitude. If he decided he needed to do something, he'd go watch people who knew how to do it. He once owned a chicken farm in Michigan, spent more than 20 years making tired for Firestone, and had the first sidewalk in his part of Whittier, CA, while expanding the house he bought there in 1943 from 1 to 3 bedrooms, with a large kitchen & dining room. He did all the concrete work, built a 2-car garage/workshop, and all that as well.

There is a aphorism, "All things come to he who waiteth." Some smart aleck added to it "As long as he who waiteth worketh like mad while he waiteth!" My Grandpa LIVED that. He was the kind of person I want to be. It's taken me a bit to realize that, but I've gotten there, and now I'm doing the workething. ;)

Been working on the workshop for my house I've lived in for nearly 25 years. It started as a storage area. I have all the machines lined up on the walls. I'm in the middle of converting an old cabinet we got in Germany while we were stationed there, in to a stand for my Atlas lathe. It's a 1.7 meter cabinet with 4 drawers and two doors, used to have feet of some sort long gone by the time we got it. Used it as a kids toy chest for many years. I've cut down the stand for an industrial sewing machine to put legs back on it. When I get the last hole drilled and the thing bolted together, it will stand about 1 meter tall, too. Or 39", about the proper height for a lathe for me. The Atlas TH42 was too long for the 44" tool cabinet I originally bought, and still too long for the newer 46" cabinet I also bought. Its nominal bed length is 42", but the change gears and stuff hang off to the left past the end of the bed. Then I need to hang some more cabinetry, and get a bunch of stuff put away, and I will magically (NOT!) have a workshop! I can now reach all the machines to touch them! It's a miracle!

HF 93212 7x18 mini-lathe, Atlas TH42 10x24 lathe, SB Heavy 10L 10x33 toolroom lathe (in need of extensive restoration) & Smithy CB-1220XL 3-in-1 machine. HF 44991 mini-mill, Atlas MF horizontal mill, 900# cast iron drill press, Craftsman 15" drill press (also in need of restoration) Craftstman 12" 2-wheel bandsaw (ANR) Taiwanese 4x6 bandsaw(ANR) Lewis 10" shaper (ANR) and who knows what all else...

ANR means "also needs restoration." See the theme there? I'm a fair mechanic, having worked on automobiles, appliances both home and industrial, high performance fighter jets, RADAR and Satellite communications systems, mainframe and micro-computer systems, and other odd stuff. The Atlas & HF mini-mills should have the ANR tag, too. Been working on the MF for about a dozen years, since I got in a box and 57 baggies. It still needs the motor wired and attached, and a good detailing. I've got to get back to the cabinet for the lathe, as it's the last thing that doesn't have a proper place at the moment.

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.) 

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)

On Monday, August 9, 2021, 07:16:27 AM CDT, david pennington via groups.io <davidwpennington@...> wrote:

 

 

Bill,

 

I love your attitude and your knowledge. I have a small mill, besides my SB 9C. Recently, with a project in the mill, I realized I had done things out of order: there was a small part I should have made first. Out came the Palmgren milling attachment for the 9C. BTW: I have the SB milling attachment, too. While it's a good, solid piece, the Palmgren is far more versatile.

 

It IS an addiction. While I can only dream of shoe-horning a larger additional lathe into my single garage bay shop, I do have two mills, although one of them is in pieces, not yet having been assembled since trucking it here from far, far away. BUT, I'm on the move. Between now and Christmas, I've promised myself. The thing I'm looking forward to is a feature it will add to the shop: horizontal milling.

 

Love Heinlein, too. Can't do everything he listed, but I'm working on it.

 

Dave

 

David W. Pennington
Denver, Colorado

720-442-3744

 

 

On Monday, August 9, 2021, 05:27:24 AM MDT, Bill in OKC too via groups.io <wmrmeyers@...> wrote:

 

 

The original builders of machines used hammers, chisels, files, hacksaws, and scrapers to make the machines that built the industrial age. In more modern times, folks have built t-slotted tables with similar tooling, flat stock, and bolts or rivets to make similar tables. Admittedly, such tools are slower. I made the T-nut for my QCTP on my Atlas lathe with a hacksaw and files. You can do anything you want if you recognize the possibilities of your workshop.

These are essentially different editions of the same book:

https://www.amazon.com/Basic-Benchwork-Workshop-Practice-No/dp/0852429207

https://www.amazon.com/Machinists-Engineering-Apprentices-Metalworkers-Illustrations/dp/1497100577

Martin Cleeve made a T-slotted table decades ago and did an article on it for the UK's Model Engineer magazine, and Mike did both a t-slotted table and faceplate for which I have links. Yes, a milling machine will make things easier, but they are not the only way to do it. http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/tee-slot-cross-slide.html http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/tee-slot-face-plate.html

Some folks don't have room for a mill, so they make do with a lathe, and for some folks, even though they do have a mill, sometimes setting up the mill attachment for the lathe is easier for a small part. Lots of ways to do stuff. You can do light milling on a lathe even without a milling table, for example. Got a faceplate for the lathe? You can do a lot of stuff on a faceplate. Even if you don't have one with T-slots. You can also improvise a milling attachment for a lathe with an angle plate and small vise, among other ways to do it.

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/milling-atachment-for-lathe.24936/#post-221109

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fezj8G70f7c

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Improvised+milling+attachment+for+lathe&t=brave&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F564x%2Fec%2F47%2Fa6%2Fec47a6f9f1e1739ca2b52edba0519a66.jpg


Do a little web browsing and video watching, and see what you can find that you can fit to your skills and workshop. Making something like this will also increase both your skills and workshop, as well as give you more confidence in yourself.

I started this with a 7x10 mini-lathe, and did some light milling on it. Now I've got 4 lathes, 3 milling machines, and a shop full off stuff...

Be careful! It's a addiction!

Bill in OKC

William R. Meyers, MSgt, USAF(Ret.)


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
LAZARUS LONG (Robert A. Heinlein)


On Monday, August 9, 2021, 03:15:12 AM CDT, davetryner via groups.io <davetryner@...> wrote:

 

 

Many thanks for your comments. I thought that their might be someone out there who had managed to fit a myford slide to a SB. Regarding the Pine Groves cross slide kit that has been mentioned. It is only a kit consisting of a casting and a drawing with machining instructions. You need access to a milling machine to machine the T slots etc which I have not got!! If I had a milling machine why would I want a milling table on the lathe.

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