What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll


Mark
 

for some reason the post did not get sent out as a complete poll...

Results

See Who Responded


LARRY KLOSE
 

I voted, but so far the sample is small.

 

The problem in Sn3 is that the market size is very limited for any particular model at a price that can be obtained.

 

Re hybrids, I’ve heard on this list of some of the issues with those—the PBL K-27’s..  To paraphrase: tooling for the die cast parts is very expensive and requires a lot of models to amortize the cost.  PBL hasn’t said how they came out but the casting tooling was a large part of the cost.  I don’t know if newer production methods might reduce the cost, especially for small runs (CNC, 3D printing, others).

 

Re Galloping Geese, it might be time.  The two runs of PBL Samongsha Geese are cosmetically beautiful but the first run drive system was dreadful and the second run is barely adequate.  The first run was bad enough that PBL offered an upgrade kit based on parts from the second run.  Both runs had 2 wheel drive and pickup was problematic, particularly the insulated left side. The sole pickup was a pickup shoe under the power truck that was fine on continuous rail but tended to catch frogs and guardrails.  Alternates are limited due to very limited space.  I have a first run No. 5 with the upgrade kit.  I worked with my friend Joe who is a machinist and he worked out a pickup system that works—wipers on the power truck and on the third truck.  The third truck was supplied with very sloppy axle mountings that allowed the left (insulated) wheels to short when they were used with wipers because they moved and rocked all over the place.  So Joe made and modified bearings for the axles that allowed him to mount wipers with that would work without slop and thus, without shorting.  Works well, but the two wheels drive is still not the best.  It now weighs 1 lb. 21/2 oz with most of the weight over the drive wheels and the two drive wheels still slip some--but it is good on level track.  I haven’t used it on hills as I don’t have any yet, but I’ll try it on a friend’s layout when I get a chance.

 

IIRC, someone recently said here that Jim Booth was thinking about a new run of Geese.  Maybe Boo-Rim can design a better power truck.

 

Larry

 

 

 

From: Sn3@groups.io [mailto:Sn3@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 6:39 AM
To: Sn3@groups.io
Subject: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll

 

A new poll has been created:

for some reason the post did not get sent out as a complete poll...

1. C-18 Brass
2. C-18 Hybrid
3. C-19 Brass
4. C-19 Hybrid
5. C-21 Brass
6. C-21 Hybrid
7. C-25 Brass
8. C-25 Hybrid
9. K-27 Brass
10. K-27 Hybrid
11. K-28 Brass
12. K-28 Hybrid
13. K-36 Brass
14. K-36 Hybrid
15. K-37 Brass
16. K-37 Hybrid
17. Passenger Cars - Brass
18. Passenger Cars - RTR
19. Passenger Cars - Kit
20. MoW Rolling Stock (all MoW stock) - Brass
21. MoW Rolling Stock (all MoW stock) - RTR
22. MoW Rolling Stock (all MoW stock) - Kit
23. Cabeese - Brass

Vote Now


William (Bill) Hobbs
 

My solution was to convert the damned thing to dead rail. There is more than enough room to do so in the #5.


William Winans
 

Hi Bill -- 

That sounds really good, but I don't see that happening for my #6...   That little beauty caused me to rebuild some of my track because the wheels have flat treads -- no taper -- and shorted out on a crossing.   I hope this new layout will have solved #6's difficulties!   The PFM/NWSL #7 was converted to all wheel pickup and nothing stops it but really dirty track.

Have fun!
Bill Winans
-----------------------------


On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 8:29 PM William (Bill) Hobbs <hobbsw@...> wrote:
My solution was to convert the damned thing to dead rail. There is more than enough room to do so in the #5.


LARRY KLOSE
 

That doesn’t solve the power truck traction problem, however.

 

Larry

 

From: Sn3@groups.io [mailto:Sn3@groups.io] On Behalf Of William (Bill) Hobbs
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:30 PM
To: Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll

 

My solution was to convert the damned thing to dead rail. There is more than enough room to do so in the #5.


William (Bill) Hobbs
 

You are correct.  The traction problem (and derailing problem) can be helped by a better distribution of weight in the freight area.  But it simply will never be a great model -- one of PBL's lesser efforts.  I don't think I have run it in the last w years.


Ken Neufeld
 

I reworked my #4 goose to pickup the right rail with the drive truck and the left rail with the rear truck.
I removed the wiper. Got some Bullfrog snot to replace the drive tire. Just have to clean the wheels once in awhile.
Runs reliably all the time.
New releases, how about some RGS passenger car kits?

Ken Neufeld


From: Sn3@groups.io <Sn3@groups.io> on behalf of William (Bill) Hobbs <hobbsw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 8:55 AM
To: Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll
 
You are correct.  The traction problem (and derailing problem) can be helped by a better distribution of weight in the freight area.  But it simply will never be a great model -- one of PBL's lesser efforts.  I don't think I have run it in the last w years.


LARRY KLOSE
 

The only thing I haven’t tried is the bullfrog snot (the traction tire disappeared long ago).  Mine now runs well but the currently built part of my layout is flat.  I may try the snot when I get some hills.  Meanwhile, I’ll go with what I’ve got.  I now have two truck pickup on the left rail and three truck pickup.  With a Stay Alive, I have about 9 seconds of power if there’s a break—it’ll run nearly end to end on my 20 ft. mainline.

 

Larry

 

From: Sn3@groups.io [mailto:Sn3@groups.io] On Behalf Of ken neufeld
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 9:07 AM
To: William (Bill) Hobbs; Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll

 

I reworked my #4 goose to pickup the right rail with the drive truck and the left rail with the rear truck.

I removed the wiper. Got some Bullfrog snot to replace the drive tire. Just have to clean the wheels once in awhile.

Runs reliably all the time.

New releases, how about some RGS passenger car kits?

 

Ken Neufeld


From: Sn3@groups.io <Sn3@groups.io> on behalf of William (Bill) Hobbs <hobbsw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 8:55 AM
To: Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll

 

You are correct.  The traction problem (and derailing problem) can be helped by a better distribution of weight in the freight area.  But it simply will never be a great model -- one of PBL's lesser efforts.  I don't think I have run it in the last w years.


Bill
 

FWIW:

Several years ago I also re-worked a #6. This included adding a Tsunami decoder, capacitor, speaker (example on the depot platform), lead figures in the cab, and 0.008” phosphor bronze wipers on each truck and plenty of weight under the load of ties.

 

It tracks well up a 2 ½ percent grade but is sensitive to dirty track or wheels. It is also very good at finding power interruption, especially turnout frogs and points. As a matter of fact, I use if for real maintenance and run it after cleaning track. . . if any is still dirty the critter will find it.

FWIW

Bill

 

From: Sn3@groups.io <Sn3@groups.io> On Behalf Of William (Bill) Hobbs
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 6:56 AM
To: Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll

 

You are correct.  The traction problem (and derailing problem) can be helped by a better distribution of weight in the freight area.  But it simply will never be a great model -- one of PBL's lesser efforts.  I don't think I have run it in the last w years.


Kevin O'Neill <oneforhire@...>
 

I have 2 of the geese .I have no problem with them. I dont understand why yours is not running well . Lets not tarnish the product line over a few small issues!!!. I would very much like to see C16 with bear trap .


-----Original Message-----
From: LARRY KLOSE <lklose@...>
To: Sn3 <Sn3@groups.io>; 'William (Bill) Hobbs' <hobbsw@...>
Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2018 10:22 am
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll

The only thing I haven’t tried is the bullfrog snot (the traction tire disappeared long ago).  Mine now runs well but the currently built part of my layout is flat.  I may try the snot when I get some hills.  Meanwhile, I’ll go with what I’ve got.  I now have two truck pickup on the left rail and three truck pickup.  With a Stay Alive, I have about 9 seconds of power if there’s a break—it’ll run nearly end to end on my 20 ft. mainline.
 
Larry
 
From: Sn3@groups.io [mailto:Sn3@groups.io] On Behalf Of ken neufeld
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 9:07 AM
To: William (Bill) Hobbs; Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll
 
I reworked my #4 goose to pickup the right rail with the drive truck and the left rail with the rear truck.
I removed the wiper. Got some Bullfrog snot to replace the drive tire. Just have to clean the wheels once in awhile.
Runs reliably all the time.
New releases, how about some RGS passenger car kits?
 
Ken Neufeld

From: Sn3@groups.io <Sn3@groups.io> on behalf of William (Bill) Hobbs <hobbsw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 8:55 AM
To: Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll
 
You are correct.  The traction problem (and derailing problem) can be helped by a better distribution of weight in the freight area.  But it simply will never be a great model -- one of PBL's lesser efforts.  I don't think I have run it in the last w years.


j_g_mcqueen
 

Kevin,

There never were any C-16's with bear traps, the C&S only leased 3 C-19's (343, 345, & 346) from the D&RGW.

Jim 

On Friday, September 14, 2018, 3:50:17 PM EDT, Kevin O'Neill via Groups.Io <oneforhire@...> wrote:


I have 2 of the geese .I have no problem with them. I dont understand why yours is not running well . Lets not tarnish the product line over a few small issues!!!. I would very much like to see C16 with bear trap .


-----Original Message-----
From: LARRY KLOSE <lklose@...>
To: Sn3 <Sn3@groups.io>; 'William (Bill) Hobbs' <hobbsw@...>
Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2018 10:22 am
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll

The only thing I haven’t tried is the bullfrog snot (the traction tire disappeared long ago).  Mine now runs well but the currently built part of my layout is flat.  I may try the snot when I get some hills.  Meanwhile, I’ll go with what I’ve got.  I now have two truck pickup on the left rail and three truck pickup.  With a Stay Alive, I have about 9 seconds of power if there’s a break—it’ll run nearly end to end on my 20 ft. mainline.
 
Larry
 
From: Sn3@groups.io [mailto:Sn3@groups.io] On Behalf Of ken neufeld
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 9:07 AM
To: William (Bill) Hobbs; Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll
 
I reworked my #4 goose to pickup the right rail with the drive truck and the left rail with the rear truck.
I removed the wiper. Got some Bullfrog snot to replace the drive tire. Just have to clean the wheels once in awhile.
Runs reliably all the time.
New releases, how about some RGS passenger car kits?
 
Ken Neufeld

From: Sn3@groups.io <Sn3@groups.io> on behalf of William (Bill) Hobbs <hobbsw@...>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2018 8:55 AM
To: Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued... #poll
 
You are correct.  The traction problem (and derailing problem) can be helped by a better distribution of weight in the freight area.  But it simply will never be a great model -- one of PBL's lesser efforts.  I don't think I have run it in the last w years.


William (Bill) Hobbs
 

Kevin said,"Lets not tarnish the product line over a few small issues!!!"
You are over-reacting to a discussion about problems these models have.
I'm glad your models work well.  After being this hobby for more than 50 years and, like the old umpire, I calls 'em as I sees 'em. Isn't that one of the purposes of having a forum like this.


chris <drgwrgs@...>
 

I would still like to see PBL do a Uintah tank engine or at least the Uintah combine.  Many of the other Uintah cars can be scratch built or kit bashed.  The alternative is for PBL or Glacier Park to do a D&SL mallet in HO.  The PFM versions were ok but noisy and to a degree clumsy.  Another alternative is the DRGW C-48.  Hardly any of them looked alike beyond a few that worked to the end of steam.  


John Agnew
 

We still make the D&RG C48.

 

John Agnew
Railmaster Exports
29 Pupuke Rd
Birkenhead, North Shore City 0627
New Zealand
Phone/Fax: (64) 9419 1994
www.railmaster.co.nz
john@...

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Jeff Mrock
 

My only hope for another run of Geese, would be to make them a little more fine scale, perhaps the
hood could be etchings rather than a casting, so its nice an thin.  Also, it would be real nice if the
front truck wheels could be slimmed down, maybe not to fine standards, but more like Proto 88, the HO
guys have.  Those wheels are so visible, and they scale out to be pretty hefty, maybe the fenders could 
be thinner too.  My Geese ran pretty well on the test track, never tried them on grades.

As for the hybrids, I would rather pay the extra for all brass, it really isn't that much, and how often do we
buy new engines?  I would like another run of the C-25's someday, the T-12's are neat.  Perhaps a Mason Bogie?
And the RGS's ten-wheelers & Conoco tank cars.

Maybe RGS Rotary #1 & 2.  The Uintah & Sumpter mallets are very nice, I'm sure they won't be cheap!  Of course
anything else is fine too.  Wish they would make a shay bigger than the 16 ton T-Boilers they did & the ones that just 
came in,  Smaller, but not too small.

Jeff


William Winans
 

Hi John ---

I am wondering if the person who made the suggestion meant the standard gauge C-48 2-8-0.   Several of us have been after River Raisin to import these (and we had been after Bill Peter way back when).  Dan N. of RRM finally found the info he needs to make them, now we just have to convince him that it is a worthwhile project.

Bill Winans

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 3:56 AM John Agnew <john@...> wrote:

We still make the D&RG C48.

 

John Agnew
Railmaster Exports
29 Pupuke Rd
Birkenhead, North Shore City 0627
New Zealand
Phone/Fax: (64) 9419 1994
www.railmaster.co.nz
john@...

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com


LARRY KLOSE
 

I’d be happy with Geese with a 4 wheel drive power truck and pickup that works.  Samhongsa’s successor Boo Rim must have learned something about the engineering of something like that in the intervening 30 years or so.  If the nice power trucks we see on N scale diesels can be done, it should be possible to do the same for HOn3.  Finer scale is nice, too: I’d like to see the narrow pilot wheels, doors that open on the Wayne body versions and on the freight boxes.

 

The good thing about the hybrids is how well they run.  So I’d like to see more K-27’s on that chassis, as it is likely the only one that sells enough copies to make it worthwhile—especially since the tooling already exists.  I’ve been tweaking my ’93 brass K-27 for more than 2 years and I still get surprise shorts from it every so often.  Not so with the hybrid.

 

PBL has brought in 2 runs of the RGS ten wheelers and 3 of the Conoco tank cars. Not that hard to find on the resale market.  If you request a PBL brass list frequently, they often show up there.  I’d like to see PBL kits for the Conoco and Texaco tanks because their plastic tanks run better and have better detail than the brass ones for a lot less money. 

 

Larry

 

From: Sn3@groups.io [mailto:Sn3@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeff Mrock via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 9:57 AM
To: Sn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sn3] What should P-B-L make next? continued...

 

My only hope for another run of Geese, would be to make them a little more fine scale, perhaps the

hood could be etchings rather than a casting, so its nice an thin.  Also, it would be real nice if the

front truck wheels could be slimmed down, maybe not to fine standards, but more like Proto 88, the HO

guys have.  Those wheels are so visible, and they scale out to be pretty hefty, maybe the fenders could 

be thinner too.  My Geese ran pretty well on the test track, never tried them on grades.

 

As for the hybrids, I would rather pay the extra for all brass, it really isn't that much, and how often do we

buy new engines?  I would like another run of the C-25's someday, the T-12's are neat.  Perhaps a Mason Bogie?

And the RGS's ten-wheelers & Conoco tank cars.

 

Maybe RGS Rotary #1 & 2.  The Uintah & Sumpter mallets are very nice, I'm sure they won't be cheap!  Of course

anything else is fine too.  Wish they would make a shay bigger than the 16 ton T-Boilers they did & the ones that just 

came in,  Smaller, but not too small.

 

Jeff


Jeff Mrock
 

Larry,

I thought they only did 2 runs of Conoco tank cars, the mid-1980's & then around 1997.  I had
all sixteen of them from the last run in a mix of black cars & silver cars.  I thought they tracked
very well, and were beautifully detailed, do you really think the plastic kits are better detailed?
I regrest selling them off, would like to get the whole run again someday.

The RGS ten wheelers don't run up that often, I would say they are somewhat scarce. Maybe
one more run is in order, someday.

I like your notion of the Geese, I was told by Keren sometime back they would never produce the 
Geese again, as they did two runs, but maybe they will change their minds.  I like them unpainted, 
as even with weathering they are a little bland.  They need subtle changes in shading on the metal
panels to have any visual interest, similar to what military modelers do.  Subtle is the key here.

They also said the K-27's always sell, maybe because they have the nicest proportions of all the 
K-series engines? 

Jeff


Ron Grau
 

I would like to see more SPNG rolling stock.  PBL did the 28 ft boxcar, which was very nice.
How about a low side gondola, A-frame gondola, stock car, water tank car, etc.

Ron


Alexander Zelkin
 

I, for one, as I always did, wish they'd produce a non-expensive passenger car kit, like their

freight cars. But I have been told several times that they probably never will. So I wipe my

tears and muffle my sobs... and keep on building my Railmaster kits. That's it, that's all...

 

Alex