Scale width draft gear boxes


Dave Yingst
 

Another advantage of scale width boxes is that it allows correct placement of air hoses, cut levers and etc, particularly on freight cars. Lately I have been replacing wide boxes with Smokey Mountain Model Works  scale size boxes for my recent builds.
Just my 2 cents

Dave Yingst
Corning, CA


sixaxlealco
 

Who's scale width boxes are you using? Accurail is out of stock. Does anyone have an STL for this?
Luther Brefo
REA, LLC
Central VA & Western NY


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 2:50 PM Dave Yingst via groups.io <yingstco=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Another advantage of scale width boxes is that it allows correct placement of air hoses, cut levers and etc, particularly on freight cars. Lately I have been replacing wide boxes with Smokey Mountain Model Works  scale size boxes for my recent builds.
Just my 2 cents

Dave Yingst
Corning, CA


George
 

Per Dave’s message, he is using Smokey Mountain’s boxes. https://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO_draft_gear+cplrs.html

George Sebastian-Coleman



On Apr 5, 2021, at 5:11 PM, sixaxlealco <lutherkb@...> wrote:

Who's scale width boxes are you using? Accurail is out of stock. Does anyone have an STL for this?
Luther Brefo
REA, LLC
Central VA & Western NY


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 2:50 PM Dave Yingst via groups.io <yingstco=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Another advantage of scale width boxes is that it allows correct placement of air hoses, cut levers and etc, particularly on freight cars. Lately I have been replacing wide boxes with Smokey Mountain Model Works  scale size boxes for my recent builds.
Just my 2 cents

Dave Yingst
Corning, CA




sixaxlealco
 

Oops, I misread.

Luther Brefo
REA, LLC
Central VA & Western NY


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 5:16 PM George <gsebastiancoleman@...> wrote:
Per Dave’s message, he is using Smokey Mountain’s boxes. https://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO_draft_gear+cplrs.html

George Sebastian-Coleman



On Apr 5, 2021, at 5:11 PM, sixaxlealco <lutherkb@...> wrote:

Who's scale width boxes are you using? Accurail is out of stock. Does anyone have an STL for this?
Luther Brefo
REA, LLC
Central VA & Western NY


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 2:50 PM Dave Yingst via groups.io <yingstco=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Another advantage of scale width boxes is that it allows correct placement of air hoses, cut levers and etc, particularly on freight cars. Lately I have been replacing wide boxes with Smokey Mountain Model Works  scale size boxes for my recent builds.
Just my 2 cents

Dave Yingst
Corning, CA




David Olsen
 

I'm a big fan of Moloco's draft gear and the options he offers for
different styles of cushioned and non-cushioned appliances. They're
slightly wider than scale, but narrower than most brands of factory
draft gear and a great improvement in appearance. They work with
Sergent compatible shank couplers:

https://www.molocotrains.com/collections/parts/draftgear

A lot of them are sold out right now, but he periodically restocks
them in batches. Nick is very responsive to inquiries, especially on
his Facebook page, and may be able to tell you when they're going to
be available again.

I appreciate Smokey Mountain making their draft gear available to the
market, but they unfortunately represent earlier steam and transition
era draft gear that butt right up against the end sill of the car. The
angled bracket on the top of the box is supposed to be flush against
the end still of the car, like this style of older car:

http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4270545

They are not representative of the types of draft gear you'd see on
cars built in the late '60s, '70s and afterwards, where the draft gear
extend out from the end of the car, like this:

http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1390751

Dave Olsen
Macomb, MI


sixaxlealco
 

Thank you for the feedback. I guess I'm at the point where I am just looking to print my own. 
Luther Brefo
REA, LLC
Central VA & Western NY


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:04 PM David Olsen <3acr.scout@...> wrote:
I'm a big fan of Moloco's draft gear and the options he offers for
different styles of cushioned and non-cushioned appliances. They're
slightly wider than scale, but narrower than most brands of factory
draft gear and a great improvement in appearance. They work with
Sergent compatible shank couplers:

https://www.molocotrains.com/collections/parts/draftgear

A lot of them are sold out right now, but he periodically restocks
them in batches. Nick is very responsive to inquiries, especially on
his Facebook page, and may be able to tell you when they're going to
be available again.

I appreciate Smokey Mountain making their draft gear available to the
market, but they unfortunately represent earlier steam and transition
era draft gear that butt right up against the end sill of the car. The
angled bracket on the top of the box is supposed to be flush against
the end still of the car, like this style of older car:

http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4270545

They are not representative of the types of draft gear you'd see on
cars built in the late '60s, '70s and afterwards, where the draft gear
extend out from the end of the car, like this:

http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1390751

Dave Olsen
Macomb, MI






sixaxlealco
 

It's time for me to do some measuring and CAD work.
Luther Brefo
REA, LLC
Central VA & Western NY


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 9:55 PM Luther Brefo <lutherkb@...> wrote:
Thank you for the feedback. I guess I'm at the point where I am just looking to print my own. 
Luther Brefo
REA, LLC
Central VA & Western NY


On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 8:04 PM David Olsen <3acr.scout@...> wrote:
I'm a big fan of Moloco's draft gear and the options he offers for
different styles of cushioned and non-cushioned appliances. They're
slightly wider than scale, but narrower than most brands of factory
draft gear and a great improvement in appearance. They work with
Sergent compatible shank couplers:

https://www.molocotrains.com/collections/parts/draftgear

A lot of them are sold out right now, but he periodically restocks
them in batches. Nick is very responsive to inquiries, especially on
his Facebook page, and may be able to tell you when they're going to
be available again.

I appreciate Smokey Mountain making their draft gear available to the
market, but they unfortunately represent earlier steam and transition
era draft gear that butt right up against the end sill of the car. The
angled bracket on the top of the box is supposed to be flush against
the end still of the car, like this style of older car:

http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4270545

They are not representative of the types of draft gear you'd see on
cars built in the late '60s, '70s and afterwards, where the draft gear
extend out from the end of the car, like this:

http://drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1390751

Dave Olsen
Macomb, MI






Ryan Harris
 

I've modeled some more modern draft gear boxes. These are specifically designed for Sergent couplers to allow some twist and pitch movement so that coupled cars - especially those with tightlock couplers - do not bind and derail over less-than-perfect trackwork.

Type E coupler boxes: 
http://shpws.me/RuBi

Type F coupler boxes: 
http://shpws.me/SB7g

--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, Texas


Paul Dallard
 

Speaking of size issues…I just got a bulk set of Sergeants and the draft gear part seems to be thicker than the older ones I’ve got, especially compared to Kadees. . I measured them and they are 1.59 MM thick, compared to 1.40 MM for the Kadees…this obviously will make a difference when mounting them in an Athearn of Atlas draft gear. So…what side do i file? the top side which wil raise them….or the track side, which will lower them?

Paul



On Apr 6, 2021, at 2:38 PM, Ryan Harris <ryan.harris@...> wrote:

I've modeled some more modern draft gear boxes. These are specifically designed for Sergent couplers to allow some twist and pitch movement so that coupled cars - especially those with tightlock couplers - do not bind and derail over less-than-perfect trackwork.

Type E coupler boxes: 
http://shpws.me/RuBi

Type F coupler boxes: 
http://shpws.me/SB7g

--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, Texas


Edward Sutorik
 

Paul,

You file some of them from the top, and some of them from the bottom.

Then you can pick the one that gives you the best height.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Paul Dallard wrote:
Speaking of size issues…I just got a bulk set of Sergeants and the draft gear part seems to be thicker than the older ones I’ve got, especially compared to Kadees. . I measured them and they are 1.59 MM thick, compared to 1.40 MM for the Kadees…this obviously will make a difference when mounting them in an Athearn of Atlas draft gear. So…what side do i file? the top side which wil raise them….or the track side, which will lower them?
 
Paul
 
 
 


Paul Dallard
 

Ed, 
Thanks….i was hoping for a more certain answer than trial and error…but I’ll give it a try…


On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:40 PM, Edward Sutorik via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

Paul,

You file some of them from the top, and some of them from the bottom.

Then you can pick the one that gives you the best height.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Paul Dallard wrote:
Speaking of size issues…I just got a bulk set of Sergeants and the draft gear part seems to be thicker than the older ones I’ve got, especially compared to Kadees. . I measured them and they are 1.59 MM thick, compared to 1.40 MM for the Kadees…this obviously will make a difference when mounting them in an Athearn of Atlas draft gear. So…what side do i file? the top side which wil raise them….or the track side, which will lower them?
 
Paul
 
 
 


George
 

I’d test them in your box first. You may not need to do anything and filing can introduce many problems.

George Sebastian-Coleman



On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Paul Dallard via groups.io <shield1751@...> wrote:

Ed, 
Thanks….i was hoping for a more certain answer than trial and error…but I’ll give it a try…


On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:40 PM, Edward Sutorik via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

Paul,

You file some of them from the top, and some of them from the bottom.

Then you can pick the one that gives you the best height.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Paul Dallard wrote:
Speaking of size issues…I just got a bulk set of Sergeants and the draft gear part seems to be thicker than the older ones I’ve got, especially compared to Kadees. . I measured them and they are 1.59 MM thick, compared to 1.40 MM for the Kadees…this obviously will make a difference when mounting them in an Athearn of Atlas draft gear. So…what side do i file? the top side which wil raise them….or the track side, which will lower them?
 
Paul
 
 
 



Paul Dallard
 

I have many old Athearn/atlas  units that have old style draft gear. I put these couplers in them and thats how I found the issue. Even the new Atearns have an issue with them. If I tighten the screw…the coupler wont move at all…so i have to leave  it loose. Not good. The pre-packeged couples did NOT have that problem. These couoers (which are silver /metal colored) are much thicker in the mounting area than the other black ones. 

P


On Apr 6, 2021, at 4:17 PM, George <gsebastiancoleman@...> wrote:

I’d test them in your box first. You may not need to do anything and filing can introduce many problems.

George Sebastian-Coleman



On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Paul Dallard via groups.io <shield1751@...> wrote:

Ed, 
Thanks….i was hoping for a more certain answer than trial and error…but I’ll give it a try…


On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:40 PM, Edward Sutorik via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

Paul,

You file some of them from the top, and some of them from the bottom.

Then you can pick the one that gives you the best height.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Paul Dallard wrote:
Speaking of size issues…I just got a bulk set of Sergeants and the draft gear part seems to be thicker than the older ones I’ve got, especially compared to Kadees. . I measured them and they are 1.59 MM thick, compared to 1.40 MM for the Kadees…this obviously will make a difference when mounting them in an Athearn of Atlas draft gear. So…what side do i file? the top side which wil raise them….or the track side, which will lower them?
 
Paul
 
 
 




Brian
 

What size screws are you using? [diameter]
 
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
 

Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Sergent Engineering] Scale width draft gear boxes
 
I have many old Athearn/atlas  units that have old style draft gear. I put these couplers in them and thats how I found the issue. Even the new Atearns have an issue with them. If I tighten the screw…the coupler wont move at all…so i have to leave  it loose. Not good. The pre-packeged couples did NOT have that problem. These couoers (which are silver /metal colored) are much thicker in the mounting area than the other black ones. 
 
P
 
 
On Apr 6, 2021, at 4:17 PM, George <gsebastiancoleman@...> wrote:
 
I’d test them in your box first. You may not need to do anything and filing can introduce many problems.
 
George Sebastian-Coleman
 
 

On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Paul Dallard via groups.io <shield1751@...> wrote:
 
Ed,
Thanks….i was hoping for a more certain answer than trial and error…but I’ll give it a try…
 
 
On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:40 PM, Edward Sutorik via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:
 
Paul,

You file some of them from the top, and some of them from the bottom.

Then you can pick the one that gives you the best height.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Paul Dallard wrote:
Speaking of size issues…I just got a bulk set of Sergeants and the draft gear part seems to be thicker than the older ones I’ve got, especially compared to Kadees. . I measured them and they are 1.59 MM thick, compared to 1.40 MM for the Kadees…this obviously will make a difference when mounting them in an Athearn of Atlas draft gear. So…what side do i file? the top side which wil raise them….or the track side, which will lower them?
 
Paul
 
 
 
 
 
 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


RJ Dial
 

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 05:19 PM, Paul Dallard wrote:
...the pre-packaged couples did NOT have that problem. These couplers (which are silver /metal colored) are much thicker in the mounting area than the other black ones. 
I don't recall the die-cast couplers being black. It kinda went: gloss brown > flat rust > pewter. The investment cast ones (source of our current shortages) were blackish. I have seen those be thicker in the stem when assembled vs the die cast ones. I usually adjust the coupler box opening after checking for coupler height as to which side to file.
RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA


Edward Sutorik
 

Paul,

I was suggesting filing some on top and some on the bottom to give you a choice when setting coupler height, not to give you a specific answer.

For the same reason, I have Kadee coupler boxes that I have removed .005" and .010" from the "top".  Again, I have height options.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


David Olsen
 

Paul, the original Athearn coupler boxes were design for old, thin horn hook couplers, and many manufacturers’s boxes in more recent years were designs for plastic Kadee clones that had “whiskers” built into them for self-centering. I found that most coupler boxes needed some kind of modification to accommodate Kadee’s bronze(?) leaf spring to fit in the pocket, even before I started using Sergents. That’s understandable, since they didn’t want those thinner clone couplers to flop up and down. I remember Walthers being some of the worst in their older freight car kits. I would routinely have to file down or notch the coupler box lid to allow Kadees to fit with their spring. I would file down the raised part of the lid that fits into the box, leaving just enough of it to keep the lid in place. I’ve continued doing the same with Sergents, in addition to filing the coupler shank itself to thin it down when needed. I usually take some of both the top and the bottom to keep it even.

That’s another reason I love Moloco’s draft gear, because those modifications aren’t needed.

I’ve never noticed a difference between Sergent’s pre-assembled couplers and the kits. He uses the same castings for both (or at least he did, until he stopped offering the assembled couplers).

Dave Olsen
Macomb, MI

On Apr 6, 2021, at 20:20, Paul Dallard via groups.io <shield1751@...> wrote:

I have many old Athearn/atlas  units that have old style draft gear. I put these couplers in them and thats how I found the issue. Even the new Atearns have an issue with them. If I tighten the screw…the coupler wont move at all…so i have to leave  it loose. Not good. The pre-packeged couples did NOT have that problem. These couoers (which are silver /metal colored) are much thicker in the mounting area than the other black ones. 

P


On Apr 6, 2021, at 4:17 PM, George <gsebastiancoleman@...> wrote:

I’d test them in your box first. You may not need to do anything and filing can introduce many problems.

George Sebastian-Coleman



On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Paul Dallard via groups.io <shield1751@...> wrote:

Ed, 
Thanks….i was hoping for a more certain answer than trial and error…but I’ll give it a try…


On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:40 PM, Edward Sutorik via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

Paul,

You file some of them from the top, and some of them from the bottom.

Then you can pick the one that gives you the best height.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Paul Dallard wrote:
Speaking of size issues…I just got a bulk set of Sergeants and the draft gear part seems to be thicker than the older ones I’ve got, especially compared to Kadees. . I measured them and they are 1.59 MM thick, compared to 1.40 MM for the Kadees…this obviously will make a difference when mounting them in an Athearn of Atlas draft gear. So…what side do i file? the top side which wil raise them….or the track side, which will lower them?
 
Paul
 
 
 




Paul Dallard
 

I just ordered some pre assembled couplers to compare…so as soon as they get here…the measurements with begin. I have to admit, I NEVER had any issue with Sergeants, Kadee 158’s or #5’s in all the years Ive been model railroading (since 1966). 

P


On Apr 7, 2021, at 4:43 PM, David Olsen <3acr.scout@...> wrote:

Paul, the original Athearn coupler boxes were design for old, thin horn hook couplers, and many manufacturers’s boxes in more recent years were designs for plastic Kadee clones that had “whiskers” built into them for self-centering. I found that most coupler boxes needed some kind of modification to accommodate Kadee’s bronze(?) leaf spring to fit in the pocket, even before I started using Sergents. That’s understandable, since they didn’t want those thinner clone couplers to flop up and down. I remember Walthers being some of the worst in their older freight car kits. I would routinely have to file down or notch the coupler box lid to allow Kadees to fit with their spring. I would file down the raised part of the lid that fits into the box, leaving just enough of it to keep the lid in place. I’ve continued doing the same with Sergents, in addition to filing the coupler shank itself to thin it down when needed. I usually take some of both the top and the bottom to keep it even.

That’s another reason I love Moloco’s draft gear, because those modifications aren’t needed.

I’ve never noticed a difference between Sergent’s pre-assembled couplers and the kits. He uses the same castings for both (or at least he did, until he stopped offering the assembled couplers).

Dave Olsen
Macomb, MI

On Apr 6, 2021, at 20:20, Paul Dallard via groups.io <shield1751@...> wrote:

I have many old Athearn/atlas  units that have old style draft gear. I put these couplers in them and thats how I found the issue. Even the new Atearns have an issue with them. If I tighten the screw…the coupler wont move at all…so i have to leave  it loose. Not good. The pre-packeged couples did NOT have that problem. These couoers (which are silver /metal colored) are much thicker in the mounting area than the other black ones. 

P


On Apr 6, 2021, at 4:17 PM, George <gsebastiancoleman@...> wrote:

I’d test them in your box first. You may not need to do anything and filing can introduce many problems.

George Sebastian-Coleman



On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Paul Dallard via groups.io <shield1751@...> wrote:

Ed, 
Thanks….i was hoping for a more certain answer than trial and error…but I’ll give it a try…


On Apr 6, 2021, at 3:40 PM, Edward Sutorik via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

Paul,

You file some of them from the top, and some of them from the bottom.

Then you can pick the one that gives you the best height.


Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:54 AM, Paul Dallard wrote:
Speaking of size issues…I just got a bulk set of Sergeants and the draft gear part seems to be thicker than the older ones I’ve got, especially compared to Kadees. . I measured them and they are 1.59 MM thick, compared to 1.40 MM for the Kadees…this obviously will make a difference when mounting them in an Athearn of Atlas draft gear. So…what side do i file? the top side which wil raise them….or the track side, which will lower them?
 
Paul