Date   
Re: [SergentEng] Coupler bining in draft gear boxes

Nathan Rich
 

After having installed about 300 of these couplers, I have found through experience that a couple of swipes up and down on both top and bottom of the shank with a mill file will remove any burrs of metal or dried CA and permit very smooth action in the coupler box. I would not be afraid to thin the shank quite a bit, just make sure you do more on the top and less on the bottom plate. As long as the couplers are within about 1/4 of the head height of nominal, and you are not using tightlocks, you're golden. Real cars can and do vary in coupler height. Tightlocks are where coupler height is critical.

Reaming the center hole is not a bad idea, but do a little at a time and test fit as you go, taking care to stop as soon as it operates freely.

As to longer shank couplers, I find that whatever looks right is probably the best. In practice on 1:1 I have seen some pretty long drawbars on centerbeam cars, but not autoracks. Racks are loaded circus-style, with the cars being driven through 4 or 5 racks before they get to where they need to be, and as such they want the railcars closer together. This is of course limited by your tightest curve that the cars are going to operate through, two racks coupled with standard shank E's will probably not go through your usual 22" radius curve. That will require probably 42" or greater, but larger equipment looks better on broader curves anyway.

On locomotives, I like to set my coupler so that the inner face of the coupler (where it pushes against the next knuckle, not the pulling face of the knuckle) is right at the outer tip of the pilot or whatever the furthest protrusion of the pilot is. This enables locomotives to be realistically close but not touch. How else is your HO scale fireman going to get back to that third unit and take it off the line because it's not putting out any power? (Note: Milwaukee Road modelers need not worry)

Nathan Rich

On Aug 17, 2015 5:02 AM, "TS egroupstuff@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

The other way to try if you don't like the idea of thinning the shank
is to build up the coupler box with some thin styrene, effectively
making the coupler box deeper. I'll have to do this with some of
my stuff.

Another thing to watch out for, since you bought up the centre post in
the coupler box, I have found on not so great designed models this can
be fattened by the lid screw making it hard to get the coupler over the
post but the post is still the right diameter where the coupler sits.
Reaming the coupler in this case would make it a sloppy fit on the
centre post. I haven't figured out a good way of dealing with these
except to force the coupler onto the post.

Best to you all,

Tim

On 17/08/2015 03:04, Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng] wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm still in the experiment stage with mounting Sergent couplers in
> various rolling stock & diesel draft boxes.
> So far,Intermountain rolling stock is mostly a "drop in" procedure.
> Tangent 4750 cvd grain hoppers & Athearn,represent varing degrees of
> problems.
> Tangent is a "NO GO" as when the coupler cover is installed the couplers
> won't turn side to side to at all. They come with Kadee #58s
> installed,&they work about right. I compared the shank thickness &
> there's a "tad" bit more thickness on the Sergent coupler,which is all
> that's required for failure to swing back & forth,but am reluctant to
> start filing down the coupler shank. Could it be that the post spreads
> just enough when the screw is installed that's holding the coupler from
> swinging instead of the shank thickness? If this is the case,I bought
> the Sergent Reamer. I need to do more experimentation,but just wondered
> if anyone else has had this similar problem & has the answer for me.
> Also,should I use longer shank SBE couplers on SD40-2s & on cars such
> as 72ft centerbeam flat's & 89ft auto carriers?
>
> Many thanks to all for your help.*:) happy
> Al Hummel

EOT's

Nathan Rich
 

So i know an EOT device is strictly not a coupler but they do attach to couplers. I wonder if anybody would want one mounted on a Sergent coupler though? As long as the thing is scale sized it could even have a couple of nubs on the side that slot into the indentations on the side of the coupler...

Just an idea I had

Nathan

Re: [SergentEng] EOT's

Tim L
 

I plan on doing this one day. Ring Engineering sell a ready made EOT
and theirs is just pre-glued to a Kadee much like you suggest. It might
not be too hard to prise it off and re-glue it to a Sergent. Not much
help to me though, wrong style of EOT and definitely wrong style
of bogie.

Tim

On 20/08/2015 01:00, Nathan Rich thaddeusthudpucker@... [SergentEng] wrote:
So i know an EOT device is strictly not a coupler but they do attach to
couplers. I wonder if anybody would want one mounted on a Sergent
coupler though? As long as the thing is scale sized it could even have a
couple of nubs on the side that slot into the indentations on the side
of the coupler...

Just an idea I had

Nathan

Re: [SergentEng] EOT's

Andrew Wedge
 

I found a few people with broken ring engineering ones, I'm working on making a way to mount them on a Sargent but keeping them removable as I model a switching layout and don't want it on the same car all the time, it won't flash but the way I see it they don't flash during the day anyway


On Aug 19, 2015, at 11:34, TS egroupstuff@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

I plan on doing this one day. Ring Engineering sell a ready made EOT
and theirs is just pre-glued to a Kadee much like you suggest. It might
not be too hard to prise it off and re-glue it to a Sergent. Not much
help to me though, wrong style of EOT and definitely wrong style
of bogie.

Tim

On 20/08/2015 01:00, Nathan Rich thaddeusthudpucker@...
[SergentEng] wrote:
> So i know an EOT device is strictly not a coupler but they do attach to
> couplers. I wonder if anybody would want one mounted on a Sergent
> coupler though? As long as the thing is scale sized it could even have a
> couple of nubs on the side that slot into the indentations on the side
> of the coupler...
>
> Just an idea I had
>
> Nathan

Re: [SergentEng] EOT's

 




 

I plan on doing this one day. Ring Engineering sell a ready made EOT
and theirs is just pre-glued to a Kadee much like you suggest. It might
not be too hard to prise it off and re-glue it to a Sergent. Not much
help to me though, wrong style of EOT and definitely wrong style
of bogie.

Tim

On 20/08/2015 01:00, Nathan Rich thaddeusthudpucker@...
[SergentEng] wrote:
> So i know an EOT device is strictly not a coupler but they do attach to
> couplers. I wonder if anybody would want one mounted on a Sergent
> coupler though? As long as the thing is scale sized it could even have a
> couple of nubs on the side that slot into the indentations on the side
> of the coupler...
>
> Just an idea I had
>
> Nathan


 By EOT do you guys mean ETD (End Of Train Device or FRED (F______ Rear End Device) as we called them back in my conductor days.

Re: [SergentEng] EOT's

Tim L
 

Yes, that's what we're referring to. I guess it all depends on
localisation and interchangeability of the terms. Here we colloquially call them ETM's (End of Train Marker, from the first types that just
flashed a red light) though a lot of devices in use are actually ETAS
(End of Train Air System) or SBU's (Sense and Brake Unit) and not just
a simple flashing light.

Tim

On 20/08/2015 02:18, @lajrmdlr [SergentEng] wrote:
By EOT do you guys mean ETD (End Of Train Device or FRED (F______
Rear End Device) as we called them back in my conductor days.

Re: EOT's

David R. Olsen <drolsen@...>
 

On Aug 19, 2015, at 11:00, Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> wrote:
As long as the thing is scale sized it could even have a couple of nubs on the side that slot into the indentations on the side of the coupler...

I've thought a little about this, and I figured the best way to mount one temporarily (so you're not stuck with a dedicated EOT car) would be to make an L-shaped plug that you could just stick down into the coupler when the knuckle was locked in the closed position. You could bend a short piece of wire at a right angle and drill out a short section of styrene rod to fit over the wire. Pick a size of rod that would fit snugly inside the Sergent knuckle, and you could insert the "plug" into the coupler to mount the EOT.  Depending on what material the EOT device is made of, you could glue or solder the wire plug to the back of it.  Hope that makes sense...

Dave Olsen
Alexandria, VA

Re: [SergentEng] Re: EOT's

Todd Templeton
 

If someone made a scale EOT that would hang on a Sergent coupler, I would buy 8-10 of them. I don't want any dedicated EOT cars.
A cast metal EOT would be really nice, hint, hint!
I know Details West makes one, but it does not look like any EOT's I see.

Todd Templeton

On Aug 21, 2015 1:41 PM, "'David R. Olsen' drolsen@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

On Aug 19, 2015, at 11:00, Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> wrote:
As long as the thing is scale sized it could even have a couple of nubs on the side that slot into the indentations on the side of the coupler...

I've thought a little about this, and I figured the best way to mount one temporarily (so you're not stuck with a dedicated EOT car) would be to make an L-shaped plug that you could just stick down into the coupler when the knuckle was locked in the closed position. You could bend a short piece of wire at a right angle and drill out a short section of styrene rod to fit over the wire. Pick a size of rod that would fit snugly inside the Sergent knuckle, and you could insert the "plug" into the coupler to mount the EOT.  Depending on what material the EOT device is made of, you could glue or solder the wire plug to the back of it.  Hope that makes sense...

Dave Olsen
Alexandria, VA

Re: Coupler bining in draft gear boxes

David R. Olsen <drolsen@...>
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 10:52, Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> wrote:As to longer shank couplers, I find that whatever looks right is probably the best. In practice on 1:1 I have seen some pretty long drawbars on centerbeam cars, but not autoracks. 

Just FYI, Intermountain's new bi-level autoracks, which are beautiful despite the issues with the warped side panels, will require long shank Sergents because of the way the coupler mounts are designed. I disassembled one with the intent of converting the couplers, only to discover that the coupler swing mechanism that allows the car to operate on tighter curves is inset from the end of the car, so it requires a longer shank just to have the coupler protrude from the end of the car. 

I didn't have any long shank Sergents at the time I was attempting the conversion, but I've picked up some since. I'll try to report back when I've had a chance to try them.

Dave Olsen
Alexandria, VA

Re: [SergentEng] Re: EOT's

William Keene
 

Hello Group,

I am looking at a rather simple EOT marking devise. Basically a red flag stuck into the coupler. 

Basically this is a bit of shim brass wrapped on one edge around a brass rod and soldiered. The shim brass is the size of the flag and folded and otherwise shaped to look like it is hanging limp. The base of the brass rod would have a blob of “something” shaped to fit into the closed coupler. The brass rod would be attached to the said blob of “something”.

There can be variations to this mounting method. The rod could be passed through and attached to a flange that sits atop the coupler at an angle to represent a flag that had flopped over to one side a bit. The shim brass of the flag would then be shaped to the proper limp look. 

A handful of these is all that are needed for my layout. Easy to make. Easy to install and uninstall. Very much an added touch on the mixed train daily except Sunday service on my layout. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Aug 21, 2015, at 11:56 AM, Todd Templeton ns2700@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:


If someone made a scale EOT that would hang on a Sergent coupler, I would buy 8-10 of them. I don't want any dedicated EOT cars. 
A cast metal EOT would be really nice, hint, hint!
I know Details West makes one, but it does not look like any EOT's I see.

Todd Templeton

On Aug 21, 2015 1:41 PM, "'David R. Olsen' drolsen@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

On Aug 19, 2015, at 11:00, Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> wrote:
As long as the thing is scale sized it could even have a couple of nubs on the side that slot into the indentations on the side of the coupler...

I've thought a little about this, and I figured the best way to mount one temporarily (so you're not stuck with a dedicated EOT car) would be to make an L-shaped plug that you could just stick down into the coupler when the knuckle was locked in the closed position. You could bend a short piece of wire at a right angle and drill out a short section of styrene rod to fit over the wire. Pick a size of rod that would fit snugly inside the Sergent knuckle, and you could insert the "plug" into the coupler to mount the EOT.  Depending on what material the EOT device is made of, you could glue or solder the wire plug to the back of it.  Hope that makes sense...

Dave Olsen
Alexandria, VA




Re: [SergentEng] Re: Coupler bining in draft gear boxes

Ryan Harris
 

Autoracks definitely have a longer shank than covered hoppers or tank cars, but it isn't as apparent as on centerbeams. In the same way that the shank moves in and out of the draft gear on a centerbeam as part of the cushioning mechanism, so the same occurs on an autorack. You can see the action as the cars change from draft to buff or vice versa (you can certainly feel it), but generally they operate in a state of equilibrium.

I don't think the extra length is as apparent as on a centerbeam, but there's something there. I have several autoracks with the standard Sergent E coupler installed, but they always look like they're in buff to me. I intend to buy some +0.1" shank couplers when they are available again to see how they look. I tried the +0.13" shanks and they are too much, but they look okay on bulkhead flats.

Ryan H
Fort Worth, TX

On 8/21/2015 1:57 PM, 'David R. Olsen' drolsen@... [SergentEng] wrote:
 
On Aug 17, 2015, at 10:52, Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> wrote:As to longer shank couplers, I find that whatever looks right is probably the best. In practice on 1:1 I have seen some pretty long drawbars on centerbeam cars, but not autoracks. 

Just FYI, Intermountain's new bi-level autoracks, which are beautiful despite the issues with the warped side panels, will require long shank Sergents because of the way the coupler mounts are designed. I disassembled one with the intent of converting the couplers, only to discover that the coupler swing mechanism that allows the car to operate on tighter curves is inset from the end of the car, so it requires a longer shank just to have the coupler protrude from the end of the car. 

I didn't have any long shank Sergents at the time I was attempting the conversion, but I've picked up some since. I'll try to report back when I've had a chance to try them.

Dave Olsen
Alexandria, VA


Sergent F couplers

James Wall
 

Guys,


Finally got a chance to take some photos of my F type couplers.  Here they are mounted on an Athearn Genesis GP39X and RTR GP40X.  I made no modifications to the models to accept these.


Frank, feel free to use these if you need on the website.


Thank You,

James Wall



Type F's

James Wall
 

I took a few photos of these Type F’s mounted on an Athearn Genesis GP39X and RTR GP40X.  I made no modifications to the models to accept these couplers.




James Wall
Rural Hall. NC

Re: Type F's

Frank Sergent
 

Nice install, James. By the way as of a few hours ago, these are available once again.

Frank

Couplers sticking open

Ryan Harris
 

Back when the discussion started about the coupler manufacturing problems I looked through my couplers to see if I was affected. It turns out that while I had a few bad actors among the hundreds(!) of couplers I had assembled, none of my problems could be attributed to the design/manufacturing flaws that were brought to light.

After playing around with some of these couplers it finally occurred to me what was causing the problems I have been having of the coupler locking in the open position. On my problem couplers, when the knuckle is opened the ball is able to fall behind the knuckle tab and get trapped behind/slightly under the tab, which locks the coupler open and prevents the ball from being raised by the magnet or by gravity if the coupler is turned upside down. If I force the knuckle open just a bit more, the ball can return to the raised position and the knuckle closes freely again.

When I assembled these couplers (the plain Es purchased in packs of 144 and the lower shelf and double shelf Es in packs of 6), I noticed some - very few, in fact - of the knuckle castings had a little extra material on the end of the tab away from the knuckle itself. This extra material had to be removed and apparently I wasn't as careful as I could have been in removing it. I inadvertently made the knuckle tab a bit too short, which has the effect of allowing the knuckle a greater opening range of motion. This extra swing allows the ball to get trapped behind as I described above.

The simple solution to this problem is to replace all the offending knuckles. Frankly that's a bit of a pain, especially on those cars where the installation was a little difficult (I'm talking about you, Intermountain covered hopper kits) or where I've weathered everything and don't relish the thought of damaging the finish of the car. For those cars I have devised a solution that involves me cutting a small slice of 0.030" styrene square rod and glue it into the slot that the knuckle tab moves through at a point farthest away from the knuckle. This limits the opening range of the knuckle by a small amount, but by just enough to prevent the ball from falling behind the tab.

Anyway, I'm glad to have finally found not only the cause of this problem but also a solution.

Ryan H
Fort Worth, TX

Re: [SergentEng] Couplers sticking open

James Koretsky
 

Ryan,

This is quite timely actually, as I spent labor day weekend assembling and installing Sergent Type E's from the bulk packs on some TOFC cars, ready for use at a show coming up in Syracuse, NY in November.

I had one that was sticking open, and wouldn't close without some serious force. I found just like you, that there was a little piece on the arm that I hadn't cut off (I wasn't checking this at all, as most of the ones that I'd assembled were perfect), so it wouldn't go back in letting the ball drop, without some brute force. I put the coupler aside and disassembled it later on with some acetone and was able to trim it off, and file at and clean it up, and I made sure to make sure that I didn't cut too much off, then filed the rest off.

Since I bought some Optivisors through my Eye Doctor, assembling these couplers has been a breeze and operation has been perfect. The optivisor are perfect for finding any tiny pieces of flash that need to be removed.

Thanks for your solution, should I remove too much, I'll look at what you did to resolve.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Harris ryan.harris@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...>
To: SergentEng@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 7:53:13 PM
Subject: [SergentEng] Couplers sticking open

Back when the discussion started about the coupler manufacturing
problems I looked through my couplers to see if I was affected. It turns
out that while I had a few bad actors among the hundreds(!) of couplers
I had assembled, none of my problems could be attributed to the
design/manufacturing flaws that were brought to light.

After playing around with some of these couplers it finally occurred to
me what was causing the problems I have been having of the coupler
locking in the open position. On my problem couplers, when the knuckle
is opened the ball is able to fall behind the knuckle tab and get
trapped behind/slightly under the tab, which locks the coupler open and
prevents the ball from being raised by the magnet or by gravity if the
coupler is turned upside down. If I force the knuckle open just a bit
more, the ball can return to the raised position and the knuckle closes
freely again.

When I assembled these couplers (the plain Es purchased in packs of 144
and the lower shelf and double shelf Es in packs of 6), I noticed some -
very few, in fact - of the knuckle castings had a little extra material
on the end of the tab away from the knuckle itself. This extra material
had to be removed and apparently I wasn't as careful as I could have
been in removing it. I inadvertently made the knuckle tab a bit too
short, which has the effect of allowing the knuckle a greater opening
range of motion. This extra swing allows the ball to get trapped behind
as I described above.

The simple solution to this problem is to replace all the offending
knuckles. Frankly that's a bit of a pain, especially on those cars where
the installation was a little difficult (I'm talking about you,
Intermountain covered hopper kits) or where I've weathered everything
and don't relish the thought of damaging the finish of the car. For
those cars I have devised a solution that involves me cutting a small
slice of 0.030" styrene square rod and glue it into the slot that the
knuckle tab moves through at a point farthest away from the knuckle.
This limits the opening range of the knuckle by a small amount, but by
just enough to prevent the ball from falling behind the tab.

Anyway, I'm glad to have finally found not only the cause of this
problem but also a solution.

Ryan H
Fort Worth, TX

Re: [SergentEng] Couplers sticking open

Ryan Harris
 

James,

I'm glad my discovery might help you. I'm in the midst of a similar effort - getting models ready for an event - and that's what led to figuring this out. Nobody will remember the hundreds of flawlessly operating couplers, only the one that sticks.

I'll also add that I love my Optivisor. I must have spent the past two years building models simply by knowing what should go where. It's nice to see what I've been missing since I hit the forties.

Ryan H
Fort Worth, TX

On 9/17/2015 7:36 AM, jameskoretsky@... [SergentEng] wrote:
 

Ryan,

This is quite timely actually, as I spent labor day weekend assembling and installing Sergent Type E's from the bulk packs on some TOFC cars, ready for use at a show coming up in Syracuse, NY in November.

I had one that was sticking open, and wouldn't close without some serious force. I found just like you, that there was a little piece on the arm that I hadn't cut off (I wasn't checking this at all, as most of the ones that I'd assembled were perfect), so it wouldn't go back in letting the ball drop, without some brute force. I put the coupler aside and disassembled it later on with some acetone and was able to trim it off, and file at and clean it up, and I made sure to make sure that I didn't cut too much off, then filed the rest off.

Since I bought some Optivisors through my Eye Doctor, assembling these couplers has been a breeze and operation has been perfect. The optivisor are perfect for finding any tiny pieces of flash that need to be removed.

Thanks for your solution, should I remove too much, I'll look at what you did to resolve.

James


Glatzl and Sharons?

Jeff Young
 

Do the Glatzl dummy couplers mate well with the Sharons... or just with the Type E and F?

Thanks,
Jeff.

What's going on in the Group?

Nathan Rich
 

Haven't seen a whole lot out of people in the group... What

Re: What's going on in the Group?

Nathan Rich
 

Sorry about that, cat on the keyboard...

Haven't seen a whole lot out of people in the group... What's been going on in the Group recently?

I put some E's together yesterday and that made me think of you all... You never really forget how to put these together, I didn't even lose any ball after 10 or so couplers. I need another bulk pack and passenger couplers for my new train show acquisitions! Finally get rid of these bedeviled Kadee's that I can't quite seem to get rid of. The two previous bulk packs were for another buddy who did everything on his layout.

Nathan Rich

On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> wrote:
Haven't seen a whole lot out of people in the group... What