Date   
Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Alan Hummel
 

Mike,
Thank you for the magnet info.
As I'm sure you've found out,it's best we don't tell the wives every detail. I picked up a word of wisdom years before I got married: Women have no faults,men have only 2: everything they say & everything they do.
Al Hummel



On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 2:50 PM, "Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng]" wrote:


 
The "strong" magnet I have is from Sears.  It's a Craftsman Brand telescoping Gizmo to pick up metal objects with.  It's on a telescoping wand about 2 feet long.  The magnet is amazingly strong.  I have a block of steel 1" x 2" x 3" on my bench.  This magnet will pick up this block of steel when I get about 3/4" away from it.  The downside is, no matter where I lay the darn thing down, it usually manages to grab ahold of some metal object nearby.

Even this strong magnet will not dislodge some of the balls in these couplers.  Those will just have to be taken apart, I'm afraid.

I'm rebuilding a 1917 Player Piano, for my wife.   Lots of the parts are assembled using Hot Hide Glue.  There is a cure time on this glue, so while I wait for the glue to cure, I'm working on the couplers.
(And, she wonders why it's taking me so long to get the Piano completed)  VBG
Mike  (the other Mike)



On Jul 1, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

The Other Mike,

Mike,since this is an investment casting product problem,should I assume the corrosion problem can occur even if the couplers come preassembled as mine do?

In Frank's letter,he mentioned a "stronger" magnet than the 1 sold for uncoupling-what type magnet would this be & where can I find them? All I have are refrigerator magnets & I don't think they're as strong as the uncoupling wand.(?)

Thank you,
Al Hummel




On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 11:46 AM, "Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 
Mike,
Frank replied to an email I sent him, in which he said that Rustoleum might prevent the corrosion.

I have not tried this, as all the couplers I have are installed or at least, painted and in a box, waiting to be installed.  Those are the ones in the box that have the corrosion on the parts where the paint has been rubbed off.

I guess the Sharons that I have on order (I finally bit the bullet and i'm starting a new HOn3 layout) will have to be sprayed with Rustoleum.  Maybe that will be the "Miricle Cure".

I dug around and found Frank's message.

I copy it here, in his exact words:

"I don’t think the ACC will migrate over time. One thing that I imagine could happen is that corrosion could build up inside the coupler when not in use and that could keep the ball from lifting and falling properly. If you peer into a stuck coupler when you put the uncoupling wand over it... can you see the ball move up into the top casting? You can see this with a coupler that is operating properly (at least I can with good light and my reading glasses). If the ball doesn’t lift, then there might be corrosion build up in the ball cylinder on the top castings. Corrosion on the zinc castings will be in the form of a white powder on the surface that is typically very easy to remove. If you have a bigger magnet than the ones in the uncoupling wands, you can probably force the ball to come up. Then put the magnet on the bottom of the coupler to force it back down. Once you repeat this a few times the corrosion will be knocked of the critical surfaces as original operation will be restored. I haven’t actually seen this happen – even though I have tried to make it happen by purposely leaving couplers in damp locations for an extended period of time. If you are actually seeing this problem, then I would recommend this big magnet trick. I would also recommend coating the ball cylinder in the top casting and the ball seat in the bottom castings with Neolube prior to assembly (or reassembly as the cast may be). The Neolube is a great corrosion inhibitor. One of the reasons I recommend painting the couplers with Rustoleum is that it includes corrosion inhibitors. Even though the Rustoleum is only on the outside surface of the couplers, its ingredients act as a sacrificial electrode to prevent corrosion and that works for the whole part – not just the surface where the paint is applied. Please let me know what you find out and share with the Yahoo group. I’m certain those guys would be very interested in your findings.
 
Thanks,
Frank"


So, I guess I need Neolube inside, and Rustoleum on the outside.

Ain't it fun?

The other Mike





On Jul 1, 2015, at 9:58 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Interesting ...

I've been using the new Sharon couplers (I am a TOC narrow gauger) and the website now recommends using a solvent-based spray (Krylon?  I forget exactly).  Wonder if that would help prevent some of this.

It does sound like some sort of atmospheric corrosion, a bit unexpected.

Mike Conder

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 
Mike, some were painted with acrylic craft paint, some were not painted at all.

I believe the painting was done after assembly.  The painting was done with very light, thin coats.  They were brush painted.  I did try to keep the paint on the outside of the couplers.

Some of the painted couplers have the white dust, some don't.  Most of the unpainted ones have the white dust.

I looked at them again, and I see that the painted ones have it on the face of the moveable knuckle and the inside of the fixed jaw, where the paint got rubbed off when I did the "Breaking in".

It would appear the white dust occurs where there is no paint.

Thanks,

another Mike


On Jul 1, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 
Mike, did you paint your couplers before assembly, or assemble them without painting?

Mike Conder












Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Mike Van Hove
 

Mike,

I little far from the coast, as I live in Columbia, Missouri.  That's exactly halfway between Kansas City and St Louis.
Now, I must admit, we do have some humidity, from time to time.  VBG
I just looked over at my Davis Weather Station, and the outside humidity is 90%.  No kidding.
We are having a very humid summer, but our winters are usually quite dry.  In the 30 to 40% range, inside.   Most folks run Humidifiers in the winter.  I DO NOT run one in my shop, and what with heating the place with a wood stove, the humidity stays pretty low.
No doubt it's still a possibility.
I'm wondering if I can buy Rustoleum in a regular can, so I can dry brush these babies.  I don't want to have to take the couplers completely off the car to air brush them.  I know I will get them mixed up as to which coupler came off which car.  And that can (and will) cause some problems.  Seems like all I remember seeing are Rattle Cans, but I'm most likely wrong. (you can ask my wife about that)  VBG

The other Mike


On Jul 1, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Always fun.

It is the Rustoleum that I was trying to remember, I have a can at home.  It really looks good, BTW.

I am curious about the corrosion cause, though.  Do you live in a humid part of the country?  I'm in Denver, have not seen any problems.  Have a good friend in Minnesota, he has more humidity in general but also has not seen problems ... at least, he has not mentioned them.  He also uses the Rustoleum IIRC.

Maybe combination of air pollution, or living on the coast, or ... ?

Mike Conder

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

Mike,

Frank replied to an email I sent him, in which he said that Rustoleum might prevent the corrosion.

I have not tried this, as all the couplers I have are installed or at least, painted and in a box, waiting to be installed.  Those are the ones in the box that have the corrosion on the parts where the paint has been rubbed off.

I guess the Sharons that I have on order (I finally bit the bullet and i'm starting a new HOn3 layout) will have to be sprayed with Rustoleum.  Maybe that will be the "Miricle Cure".

I dug around and found Frank's message.

I copy it here, in his exact words:

"I don’t think the ACC will migrate over time. One thing that I imagine could happen is that corrosion could build up inside the coupler when not in use and that could keep the ball from lifting and falling properly. If you peer into a stuck coupler when you put the uncoupling wand over it... can you see the ball move up into the top casting? You can see this with a coupler that is operating properly (at least I can with good light and my reading glasses). If the ball doesn’t lift, then there might be corrosion build up in the ball cylinder on the top castings. Corrosion on the zinc castings will be in the form of a white powder on the surface that is typically very easy to remove. If you have a bigger magnet than the ones in the uncoupling wands, you can probably force the ball to come up. Then put the magnet on the bottom of the coupler to force it back down. Once you repeat this a few times the corrosion will be knocked of the critical surfaces as original operation will be restored. I haven’t actually seen this happen – even though I have tried to make it happen by purposely leaving couplers in damp locations for an extended period of time. If you are actually seeing this problem, then I would recommend this big magnet trick. I would also recommend coating the ball cylinder in the top casting and the ball seat in the bottom castings with Neolube prior to assembly (or reassembly as the cast may be). The Neolube is a great corrosion inhibitor. One of the reasons I recommend painting the couplers with Rustoleum is that it includes corrosion inhibitors. Even though the Rustoleum is only on the outside surface of the couplers, its ingredients act as a sacrificial electrode to prevent corrosion and that works for the whole part – not just the surface where the paint is applied. Please let me know what you find out and share with the Yahoo group. I’m certain those guys would be very interested in your findings.
 
Thanks,
Frank"


So, I guess I need Neolube inside, and Rustoleum on the outside.

Ain't it fun?

The other Mike





On Jul 1, 2015, at 9:58 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Interesting ...

I've been using the new Sharon couplers (I am a TOC narrow gauger) and the website now recommends using a solvent-based spray (Krylon?  I forget exactly).  Wonder if that would help prevent some of this.

It does sound like some sort of atmospheric corrosion, a bit unexpected.

Mike Conder

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

Mike, some were painted with acrylic craft paint, some were not painted at all.


I believe the painting was done after assembly.  The painting was done with very light, thin coats.  They were brush painted.  I did try to keep the paint on the outside of the couplers.

Some of the painted couplers have the white dust, some don't.  Most of the unpainted ones have the white dust.

I looked at them again, and I see that the painted ones have it on the face of the moveable knuckle and the inside of the fixed jaw, where the paint got rubbed off when I did the "Breaking in".

It would appear the white dust occurs where there is no paint.

Thanks,

another Mike


On Jul 1, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Mike, did you paint your couplers before assembly, or assemble them without painting?


Mike Conder










Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Mike Van Hove
 

Great words of wisdom.

The other mike

On Jul 1, 2015, at 1:55 PM, Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Mike,
Thank you for the magnet info.
As I'm sure you've found out,it's best we don't tell the wives every detail. I picked up a word of wisdom years before I got married: Women have no faults,men have only 2: everything they say & everything they do.
Al Hummel



On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 2:50 PM, "Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 
The "strong" magnet I have is from Sears.  It's a Craftsman Brand telescoping Gizmo to pick up metal objects with.  It's on a telescoping wand about 2 feet long.  The magnet is amazingly strong.  I have a block of steel 1" x 2" x 3" on my bench.  This magnet will pick up this block of steel when I get about 3/4" away from it.  The downside is, no matter where I lay the darn thing down, it usually manages to grab ahold of some metal object nearby.

Even this strong magnet will not dislodge some of the balls in these couplers.  Those will just have to be taken apart, I'm afraid.

I'm rebuilding a 1917 Player Piano, for my wife.   Lots of the parts are assembled using Hot Hide Glue.  There is a cure time on this glue, so while I wait for the glue to cure, I'm working on the couplers.
(And, she wonders why it's taking me so long to get the Piano completed)  VBG
Mike  (the other Mike)



On Jul 1, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

The Other Mike,

Mike,since this is an investment casting product problem,should I assume the corrosion problem can occur even if the couplers come preassembled as mine do?

In Frank's letter,he mentioned a "stronger" magnet than the 1 sold for uncoupling-what type magnet would this be & where can I find them? All I have are refrigerator magnets & I don't think they're as strong as the uncoupling wand.(?)

Thank you,
Al Hummel




On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 11:46 AM, "Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 
Mike,
Frank replied to an email I sent him, in which he said that Rustoleum might prevent the corrosion.

I have not tried this, as all the couplers I have are installed or at least, painted and in a box, waiting to be installed.  Those are the ones in the box that have the corrosion on the parts where the paint has been rubbed off.

I guess the Sharons that I have on order (I finally bit the bullet and i'm starting a new HOn3 layout) will have to be sprayed with Rustoleum.  Maybe that will be the "Miricle Cure".

I dug around and found Frank's message.

I copy it here, in his exact words:

"I don’t think the ACC will migrate over time. One thing that I imagine could happen is that corrosion could build up inside the coupler when not in use and that could keep the ball from lifting and falling properly. If you peer into a stuck coupler when you put the uncoupling wand over it... can you see the ball move up into the top casting? You can see this with a coupler that is operating properly (at least I can with good light and my reading glasses). If the ball doesn’t lift, then there might be corrosion build up in the ball cylinder on the top castings. Corrosion on the zinc castings will be in the form of a white powder on the surface that is typically very easy to remove. If you have a bigger magnet than the ones in the uncoupling wands, you can probably force the ball to come up. Then put the magnet on the bottom of the coupler to force it back down. Once you repeat this a few times the corrosion will be knocked of the critical surfaces as original operation will be restored. I haven’t actually seen this happen – even though I have tried to make it happen by purposely leaving couplers in damp locations for an extended period of time. If you are actually seeing this problem, then I would recommend this big magnet trick. I would also recommend coating the ball cylinder in the top casting and the ball seat in the bottom castings with Neolube prior to assembly (or reassembly as the cast may be). The Neolube is a great corrosion inhibitor. One of the reasons I recommend painting the couplers with Rustoleum is that it includes corrosion inhibitors. Even though the Rustoleum is only on the outside surface of the couplers, its ingredients act as a sacrificial electrode to prevent corrosion and that works for the whole part – not just the surface where the paint is applied. Please let me know what you find out and share with the Yahoo group. I’m certain those guys would be very interested in your findings.
 
Thanks,
Frank"


So, I guess I need Neolube inside, and Rustoleum on the outside.

Ain't it fun?

The other Mike





On Jul 1, 2015, at 9:58 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Interesting ...

I've been using the new Sharon couplers (I am a TOC narrow gauger) and the website now recommends using a solvent-based spray (Krylon?  I forget exactly).  Wonder if that would help prevent some of this.

It does sound like some sort of atmospheric corrosion, a bit unexpected.

Mike Conder

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 
Mike, some were painted with acrylic craft paint, some were not painted at all.

I believe the painting was done after assembly.  The painting was done with very light, thin coats.  They were brush painted.  I did try to keep the paint on the outside of the couplers.

Some of the painted couplers have the white dust, some don't.  Most of the unpainted ones have the white dust.

I looked at them again, and I see that the painted ones have it on the face of the moveable knuckle and the inside of the fixed jaw, where the paint got rubbed off when I did the "Breaking in".

It would appear the white dust occurs where there is no paint.

Thanks,

another Mike


On Jul 1, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 
Mike, did you paint your couplers before assembly, or assemble them without painting?

Mike Conder














Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Mike Van Hove
 

Yes, George, you have the correct Mike (the other Mike), and yes, my problem seems to be with the oxidation/corrosion.   I'm not sure how these are made, Investment or die-cast. All I know is, I bought a whole bunch of really tiny parts and put them together.  They did not come to me already assembled.

Lest I sound bitter or angry, let me make it clear, that when these are working properly, they are the best.  They worked well and look a 1000% better.  I don't have any desire to change, I just want to get to the bottom of this issue.

Thank to all, (The other Mike)
Mike Van Hove

On Jul 1, 2015, at 11:22 AM, George gsebastiancoleman@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Let's not get the two issues confused. The investment cast couplers had a problem with the casting shape. 

Mike Van Hove (think I got the right one) has been reporting an oxidation issue. 


On Jul 1, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

The Other Mike,

Mike,since this is an investment casting product problem,should I assume the corrosion problem can occur even if the couplers come preassembled as mine do?

In Frank's letter,he mentioned a "stronger" magnet than the 1 sold for uncoupling-what type magnet would this be & where can I find them? All I have are refrigerator magnets & I don't think they're as strong as the uncoupling wand.(?)

Thank you,
Al Hummel





Re: We got trouble in River City.

Daniel Waskes
 

Paint the couplers with Rustoleum? Paint? What color? Which type? Matte? Gloss? Satin? Sorry about the dumb questions, but you've really
got me confused with this suggestion. We used to use a Zinc Chromate paint for corrosion problems on our aircraft back in the day.
Dan Waskes

Re: We got trouble in River City.

Mike Conder
 

It's a Rustoleum primer, commonly available at big box hardware stores, reddish in color.  I think the exact info is on Sergent's web site under the instructions for the Sharon couplers.

Mike Conder

Re: [SergentEng] Re: We got trouble in River City.

Mike Van Hove
 

Dan,
I just went to Sergent Engineering web site and found this:

The "secret" is Rustoleum's Rusty Metal Primer. This is great stuff. It's just the right color and has a dead flat finish. It's available in spray cans and pints and quarts. You can find it just about anywhere (including Walmart).

That is a direct quote (copy) from the coupler instructions.

Mike Van Hove
(the other Mike)

On Jul 1, 2015, at 3:59 PM, Daniel Waskes dwaskes@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Paint the couplers with Rustoleum? Paint? What color? Which type? Matte? Gloss? Satin? Sorry about the dumb questions, but you've really
got me confused with this suggestion. We used to use a Zinc Chromate paint for corrosion problems on our aircraft back in the day.
Dan Waskes



Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Jason McKee <jdmkee@...>
 

Thanks guys for the input,

luckily I haven't had the issue here in Brisbane, Australia, my room is cold in winter and hot in summer.  thankfully the couplers work fine even if they are sitting for awhile.  we can't get neolube here in oz (apparently they won't export it as it is used in nuclear power stations) and i haven't seen rustoleum paint anywhere here in Brisbane.

 

the only things i do is the break in procedure and paint the newer unpainted couplers (still have the older rusty colored ones that frank used to supply)

 

will keep an eye on my couplers and see if i get any problems

 

Hopefully there will be a solution out there

 

Jason McKee

 

From: SergentEng@... [mailto:SergentEng@...]
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2015 1:46 AM
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

 

 

Mike,

Frank replied to an email I sent him, in which he said that Rustoleum might prevent the corrosion.

 

I have not tried this, as all the couplers I have are installed or at least, painted and in a box, waiting to be installed.  Those are the ones in the box that have the corrosion on the parts where the paint has been rubbed off.

 

I guess the Sharons that I have on order (I finally bit the bullet and i'm starting a new HOn3 layout) will have to be sprayed with Rustoleum.  Maybe that will be the "Miricle Cure".

 

I dug around and found Frank's message.

 

I copy it here, in his exact words:

 

"I don’t think the ACC will migrate over time. One thing that I imagine could happen is that corrosion could build up inside the coupler when not in use and that could keep the ball from lifting and falling properly. If you peer into a stuck coupler when you put the uncoupling wand over it... can you see the ball move up into the top casting? You can see this with a coupler that is operating properly (at least I can with good light and my reading glasses). If the ball doesn’t lift, then there might be corrosion build up in the ball cylinder on the top castings. Corrosion on the zinc castings will be in the form of a white powder on the surface that is typically very easy to remove. If you have a bigger magnet than the ones in the uncoupling wands, you can probably force the ball to come up. Then put the magnet on the bottom of the coupler to force it back down. Once you repeat this a few times the corrosion will be knocked of the critical surfaces as original operation will be restored. I haven’t actually seen this happen – even though I have tried to make it happen by purposely leaving couplers in damp locations for an extended period of time. If you are actually seeing this problem, then I would recommend this big magnet trick. I would also recommend coating the ball cylinder in the top casting and the ball seat in the bottom castings with Neolube prior to assembly (or reassembly as the cast may be). The Neolube is a great corrosion inhibitor. One of the reasons I recommend painting the couplers with Rustoleum is that it includes corrosion inhibitors. Even though the Rustoleum is only on the outside surface of the couplers, its ingredients act as a sacrificial electrode to prevent corrosion and that works for the whole part – not just the surface where the paint is applied. Please let me know what you find out and share with the Yahoo group. I’m certain those guys would be very interested in your findings.

 

Thanks,

Frank"

 

 

So, I guess I need Neolube inside, and Rustoleum on the outside.

 

Ain't it fun?

 

The other Mike

 

 

 

 

 

On Jul 1, 2015, at 9:58 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:



 

 

Interesting ...

I've been using the new Sharon couplers (I am a TOC narrow gauger) and the website now recommends using a solvent-based spray (Krylon?  I forget exactly).  Wonder if that would help prevent some of this.

It does sound like some sort of atmospheric corrosion, a bit unexpected.

Mike Conder

 

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Mike, some were painted with acrylic craft paint, some were not painted at all.

 

I believe the painting was done after assembly.  The painting was done with very light, thin coats.  They were brush painted.  I did try to keep the paint on the outside of the couplers.

 

Some of the painted couplers have the white dust, some don't.  Most of the unpainted ones have the white dust.

 

I looked at them again, and I see that the painted ones have it on the face of the moveable knuckle and the inside of the fixed jaw, where the paint got rubbed off when I did the "Breaking in".

 

It would appear the white dust occurs where there is no paint.

 

Thanks,

 

another Mike

 

 

On Jul 1, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:



 

Mike, did you paint your couplers before assembly, or assemble them without painting?

 

Mike Conder

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Andrew Wood
 

Jason, try Bunnings as its here in Victoria, Australia 


On 2 Jul 2015, at 09:37, 'Jason McKee' jdmkee@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Thanks guys for the input,

luckily I haven't had the issue here in Brisbane, Australia, my room is cold in winter and hot in summer.  thankfully the couplers work fine even if they are sitting for awhile.  we can't get neolube here in oz (apparently they won't export it as it is used in nuclear power stations) and i haven't seen rustoleum paint anywhere here in Brisbane.

 

the only things i do is the break in procedure and paint the newer unpainted couplers (still have the older rusty colored ones that frank used to supply)

 

will keep an eye on my couplers and see if i get any problems

 

Hopefully there will be a solution out there

 

Jason McKee

 

From: SergentEng@... [mailto:SergentEng@...]
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2015 1:46 AM
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

 

 

Mike,

Frank replied to an email I sent him, in which he said that Rustoleum might prevent the corrosion.

 

I have not tried this, as all the couplers I have are installed or at least, painted and in a box, waiting to be installed.  Those are the ones in the box that have the corrosion on the parts where the paint has been rubbed off.

 

I guess the Sharons that I have on order (I finally bit the bullet and i'm starting a new HOn3 layout) will have to be sprayed with Rustoleum.  Maybe that will be the "Miricle Cure".

 

I dug around and found Frank's message.

 

I copy it here, in his exact words:

 

"I don’t think the ACC will migrate over time. One thing that I imagine could happen is that corrosion could build up inside the coupler when not in use and that could keep the ball from lifting and falling properly. If you peer into a stuck coupler when you put the uncoupling wand over it... can you see the ball move up into the top casting? You can see this with a coupler that is operating properly (at least I can with good light and my reading glasses). If the ball doesn’t lift, then there might be corrosion build up in the ball cylinder on the top castings. Corrosion on the zinc castings will be in the form of a white powder on the surface that is typically very easy to remove. If you have a bigger magnet than the ones in the uncoupling wands, you can probably force the ball to come up. Then put the magnet on the bottom of the coupler to force it back down. Once you repeat this a few times the corrosion will be knocked of the critical surfaces as original operation will be restored. I haven’t actually seen this happen – even though I have tried to make it happen by purposely leaving couplers in damp locations for an extended period of time. If you are actually seeing this problem, then I would recommend this big magnet trick. I would also recommend coating the ball cylinder in the top casting and the ball seat in the bottom castings with Neolube prior to assembly (or reassembly as the cast may be). The Neolube is a great corrosion inhibitor. One of the reasons I recommend painting the couplers with Rustoleum is that it includes corrosion inhibitors. Even though the Rustoleum is only on the outside surface of the couplers, its ingredients act as a sacrificial electrode to prevent corrosion and that works for the whole part – not just the surface where the paint is applied. Please let me know what you find out and share with the Yahoo group. I’m certain those guys would be very interested in your findings.

 

Thanks,

Frank"

 

 

So, I guess I need Neolube inside, and Rustoleum on the outside.

 

Ain't it fun?

 

The other Mike

 

 

 

 

 

On Jul 1, 2015, at 9:58 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:



 

 

Interesting ...

I've been using the new Sharon couplers (I am a TOC narrow gauger) and the website now recommends using a solvent-based spray (Krylon?  I forget exactly).  Wonder if that would help prevent some of this.

It does sound like some sort of atmospheric corrosion, a bit unexpected.

Mike Conder

 

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Mike, some were painted with acrylic craft paint, some were not painted at all.

 

I believe the painting was done after assembly.  The painting was done with very light, thin coats.  They were brush painted.  I did try to keep the paint on the outside of the couplers.

 

Some of the painted couplers have the white dust, some don't.  Most of the unpainted ones have the white dust.

 

I looked at them again, and I see that the painted ones have it on the face of the moveable knuckle and the inside of the fixed jaw, where the paint got rubbed off when I did the "Breaking in".

 

It would appear the white dust occurs where there is no paint.

 

Thanks,

 

another Mike

 

 

On Jul 1, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:



 

Mike, did you paint your couplers before assembly, or assemble them without painting?

 

Mike Conder

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Mike Van Hove
 

Jason,
I sure hope you  don't have these problems.
Not life threatening, but a pain in the ass.

Mike Van Hove
(the other Mike)

On Jul 1, 2015, at 6:37 PM, 'Jason McKee' jdmkee@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 

Thanks guys for the input,

luckily I haven't had the issue here in Brisbane, Australia, my room is cold in winter and hot in summer.  thankfully the couplers work fine even if they are sitting for awhile.  we can't get neolube here in oz (apparently they won't export it as it is used in nuclear power stations) and i haven't seen rustoleum paint anywhere here in Brisbane.

 

the only things i do is the break in procedure and paint the newer unpainted couplers (still have the older rusty colored ones that frank used to supply)

 

will keep an eye on my couplers and see if i get any problems

 

Hopefully there will be a solution out there

 

Jason McKee

 

From: SergentEng@... [mailto:SergentEng@...]
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2015 1:46 AM
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

 

 

Mike,

Frank replied to an email I sent him, in which he said that Rustoleum might prevent the corrosion.

 

I have not tried this, as all the couplers I have are installed or at least, painted and in a box, waiting to be installed.  Those are the ones in the box that have the corrosion on the parts where the paint has been rubbed off.

 

I guess the Sharons that I have on order (I finally bit the bullet and i'm starting a new HOn3 layout) will have to be sprayed with Rustoleum.  Maybe that will be the "Miricle Cure".

 

I dug around and found Frank's message.

 

I copy it here, in his exact words:

 

"I don’t think the ACC will migrate over time. One thing that I imagine could happen is that corrosion could build up inside the coupler when not in use and that could keep the ball from lifting and falling properly. If you peer into a stuck coupler when you put the uncoupling wand over it... can you see the ball move up into the top casting? You can see this with a coupler that is operating properly (at least I can with good light and my reading glasses). If the ball doesn’t lift, then there might be corrosion build up in the ball cylinder on the top castings. Corrosion on the zinc castings will be in the form of a white powder on the surface that is typically very easy to remove. If you have a bigger magnet than the ones in the uncoupling wands, you can probably force the ball to come up. Then put the magnet on the bottom of the coupler to force it back down. Once you repeat this a few times the corrosion will be knocked of the critical surfaces as original operation will be restored. I haven’t actually seen this happen – even though I have tried to make it happen by purposely leaving couplers in damp locations for an extended period of time. If you are actually seeing this problem, then I would recommend this big magnet trick. I would also recommend coating the ball cylinder in the top casting and the ball seat in the bottom castings with Neolube prior to assembly (or reassembly as the cast may be). The Neolube is a great corrosion inhibitor. One of the reasons I recommend painting the couplers with Rustoleum is that it includes corrosion inhibitors. Even though the Rustoleum is only on the outside surface of the couplers, its ingredients act as a sacrificial electrode to prevent corrosion and that works for the whole part – not just the surface where the paint is applied. Please let me know what you find out and share with the Yahoo group. I’m certain those guys would be very interested in your findings.

 

Thanks,

Frank"

 

 

So, I guess I need Neolube inside, and Rustoleum on the outside.

 

Ain't it fun?

 

The other Mike

 

 

 

 

 

On Jul 1, 2015, at 9:58 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:



 

 

Interesting ...

I've been using the new Sharon couplers (I am a TOC narrow gauger) and the website now recommends using a solvent-based spray (Krylon?  I forget exactly).  Wonder if that would help prevent some of this.

It does sound like some sort of atmospheric corrosion, a bit unexpected.

Mike Conder

 

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Mike, some were painted with acrylic craft paint, some were not painted at all.

 

I believe the painting was done after assembly.  The painting was done with very light, thin coats.  They were brush painted.  I did try to keep the paint on the outside of the couplers.

 

Some of the painted couplers have the white dust, some don't.  Most of the unpainted ones have the white dust.

 

I looked at them again, and I see that the painted ones have it on the face of the moveable knuckle and the inside of the fixed jaw, where the paint got rubbed off when I did the "Breaking in".

 

It would appear the white dust occurs where there is no paint.

 

Thanks,

 

another Mike

 

 

On Jul 1, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:



 

Mike, did you paint your couplers before assembly, or assemble them without painting?

 

Mike Conder

 

 

 

 

 

 



Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Jason Mckee <jdmkee@...>
 

new k will have a look.  I haven't  seen it before but we have a bew one that opened a while ago so they may have it

Thanks
Jason



Sent from Samsung Mobile


-------- Original message --------
From: "Andrew Wood andrew1wood@... [SergentEng]"
Date:02/07/2015 10:02 (GMT+10:00)
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

 

Jason, try Bunnings as its here in Victoria, Australia 


On 2 Jul 2015, at 09:37, 'Jason McKee' jdmkee@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Thanks guys for the input,

luckily I haven't had the issue here in Brisbane, Australia, my room is cold in winter and hot in summer.  thankfully the couplers work fine even if they are sitting for awhile.  we can't get neolube here in oz (apparently they won't export it as it is used in nuclear power stations) and i haven't seen rustoleum paint anywhere here in Brisbane.

 

the only things i do is the break in procedure and paint the newer unpainted couplers (still have the older rusty colored ones that frank used to supply)

 

will keep an eye on my couplers and see if i get any problems

 

Hopefully there will be a solution out there

 

Jason McKee

 

From: SergentEng@... [mailto:SergentEng@...]
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2015 1:46 AM
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

 

 

Mike,

Frank replied to an email I sent him, in which he said that Rustoleum might prevent the corrosion.

 

I have not tried this, as all the couplers I have are installed or at least, painted and in a box, waiting to be installed.  Those are the ones in the box that have the corrosion on the parts where the paint has been rubbed off.

 

I guess the Sharons that I have on order (I finally bit the bullet and i'm starting a new HOn3 layout) will have to be sprayed with Rustoleum.  Maybe that will be the "Miricle Cure".

 

I dug around and found Frank's message.

 

I copy it here, in his exact words:

 

"I don’t think the ACC will migrate over time. One thing that I imagine could happen is that corrosion could build up inside the coupler when not in use and that could keep the ball from lifting and falling properly. If you peer into a stuck coupler when you put the uncoupling wand over it... can you see the ball move up into the top casting? You can see this with a coupler that is operating properly (at least I can with good light and my reading glasses). If the ball doesn’t lift, then there might be corrosion build up in the ball cylinder on the top castings. Corrosion on the zinc castings will be in the form of a white powder on the surface that is typically very easy to remove. If you have a bigger magnet than the ones in the uncoupling wands, you can probably force the ball to come up. Then put the magnet on the bottom of the coupler to force it back down. Once you repeat this a few times the corrosion will be knocked of the critical surfaces as original operation will be restored. I haven’t actually seen this happen – even though I have tried to make it happen by purposely leaving couplers in damp locations for an extended period of time. If you are actually seeing this problem, then I would recommend this big magnet trick. I would also recommend coating the ball cylinder in the top casting and the ball seat in the bottom castings with Neolube prior to assembly (or reassembly as the cast may be). The Neolube is a great corrosion inhibitor. One of the reasons I recommend painting the couplers with Rustoleum is that it includes corrosion inhibitors. Even though the Rustoleum is only on the outside surface of the couplers, its ingredients act as a sacrificial electrode to prevent corrosion and that works for the whole part – not just the surface where the paint is applied. Please let me know what you find out and share with the Yahoo group. I’m certain those guys would be very interested in your findings.

 

Thanks,

Frank"

 

 

So, I guess I need Neolube inside, and Rustoleum on the outside.

 

Ain't it fun?

 

The other Mike

 

 

 

 

 

On Jul 1, 2015, at 9:58 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:



 

 

Interesting ...

I've been using the new Sharon couplers (I am a TOC narrow gauger) and the website now recommends using a solvent-based spray (Krylon?  I forget exactly).  Wonder if that would help prevent some of this.

It does sound like some sort of atmospheric corrosion, a bit unexpected.

Mike Conder

 

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 8:06 AM, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Mike, some were painted with acrylic craft paint, some were not painted at all.

 

I believe the painting was done after assembly.  The painting was done with very light, thin coats.  They were brush painted.  I did try to keep the paint on the outside of the couplers.

 

Some of the painted couplers have the white dust, some don't.  Most of the unpainted ones have the white dust.

 

I looked at them again, and I see that the painted ones have it on the face of the moveable knuckle and the inside of the fixed jaw, where the paint got rubbed off when I did the "Breaking in".

 

It would appear the white dust occurs where there is no paint.

 

Thanks,

 

another Mike

 

 

On Jul 1, 2015, at 1:20 AM, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:



 

Mike, did you paint your couplers before assembly, or assemble them without painting?

 

Mike Conder

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Rob McLear
 

Jason I normally can get Rustoleum from Bunnings most stores carry it in spray cans, normally it is low down near the floor however.

Rob McLear
Kingaroy
Australia.

Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Jason McKee <jdmkee@...>
 

thanks for the tips guys, went to two bunnings local to me, yup have rustoleum primer, in grey or white, but no rust colored.

thanks again for the tips, i will keep looking

 

Jason

 

From: SergentEng@... [mailto:SergentEng@...]
Sent: Thursday, 2 July 2015 11:48 AM
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: RE: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

 

 

Jason I normally can get Rustoleum from Bunnings most stores carry it in spray cans, normally it is low down near the floor however.

 

Rob McLear

Kingaroy

Australia.

Please trim your posts

Mark Stamm
 

Please for those of us who read this group online or receive the digest version trim your posts. Keeping just the relevant content and deleting the rest will save 1000s of electrons😉

Thank you
Mark

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

Re: Please trim your posts

Mike Conder
 

I agree but the Gmail app for iPhone does not give me that option. 

Mike Conder

Corrosion on couplers

Mike Van Hove
 

Well, I have been working on my fleet of screwed up couplers.

I have observed that the corrosion seems to occur where there is no paint. I used very thin Craft Paint Acrylics.

Some of the couplers have no paint of any kind. (I was getting to the end of the coupler making and thought to paint them later).

The unpainted couplers have a gray coating over the entire coupler, and they are bound up.

The painted ones had a white powder on the areas where I had rubbed the paint off while doing the "Breaking in" process.

This says to me, the couplers MUST be painted.

I went to Menards and bought a 1/2 pint can of Rustoleum "Rusty Metal Primer".

Somewhere here in all this bunch of emails, I saw it said to use Acetone for thinner, but the instuctions on the can said use Mineral Sprits.

The Acetone is for disolving the ACC for dis-assembly purposes.

I'm going to dis-assemble the affected couplers, go thru the entire process and re-assemble with a dab of Neolube inside, and a light coat of Rustoleum on the outside.

If this doesn't work, I'm going back to working on the Wooden Ship Model, the "Blue Nose" that I started several years ago.

Hope this works,
Thanks to all for your help.

Mike Van Hove
(the other Mike)

Re: [SergentEng] Corrosion on couplers

Nathan Rich
 

Keep up the good fight! 

Since I live in a place that gets damp (Pacific NW) I will definitely take it into account that I should probably paint the couplers I assemble of the next bulk pack I do (whenever that will be). I'm working on getting another buddy of mine to consider converting, because I'd like to be able to interoperate with him. 

I have also seen this white oxidation on Kadee couplers that have gotten wet smd or whatever reason, but it does not seem to effect them due to their grossly slack tolerances.

I also find rustoleum primer to be good for weathering track in bulk, one just needs to scrape the tops of the rails. Mask your frogs and points, those can be hard to clean.

Nathan Rich


On Thursday, July 2, 2015, Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

Well, I have been working on my fleet of screwed up couplers.

I have observed that the corrosion seems to occur where there is no paint. I used very thin Craft Paint Acrylics.

Some of the couplers have no paint of any kind. (I was getting to the end of the coupler making and thought to paint them later).

The unpainted couplers have a gray coating over the entire coupler, and they are bound up.

The painted ones had a white powder on the areas where I had rubbed the paint off while doing the "Breaking in" process.

This says to me, the couplers MUST be painted.

I went to Menards and bought a 1/2 pint can of Rustoleum "Rusty Metal Primer".

Somewhere here in all this bunch of emails, I saw it said to use Acetone for thinner, but the instuctions on the can said use Mineral Sprits.

The Acetone is for disolving the ACC for dis-assembly purposes.

I'm going to dis-assemble the affected couplers, go thru the entire process and re-assemble with a dab of Neolube inside, and a light coat of Rustoleum on the outside.

If this doesn't work, I'm going back to working on the Wooden Ship Model, the "Blue Nose" that I started several years ago.

Hope this works,
Thanks to all for your help.

Mike Van Hove
(the other Mike)

Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 


"Rusty Metal Primer" is a specific type of paint, not a color.  Rust-Oleum is the Manufacture, Stops-Rust is the brand, Rusty Metal Primer is the product.  It has a specific chemical reaction that causes it to act as a sacrificial electrode.  This point was made earlier in this thread.
<https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/stops-rust/rusty-metal-primer/>
<https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/stops-rust/rusty-metal-primer-spray/>
<https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/stops-rust/rusty-metal-primer-touch-up/>
TCC:}

---In SergentEng@..., <jdmkee@...> wrote :

thanks for the tips guys, went to two bunnings local to me, yup have rustoleum primer, in grey or white, but no rust colored.

thanks again for the tips, i will keep looking

Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Jason McKee <jdmkee@...>
 

thanks for that, i can now confirm that i have not found that anywhere here in brisbane.  thanks for the info though

 

Jason

.


Re: [SergentEng] We've got trouble in River City

Mike Van Hove
 

I read the MDS on the metal primer.

It shows it contains Mineral Spirits, so I guess that must be the proper thinner to use.

Mike, (the Other Mike)

On Jul 2, 2015, at 5:21 PM, group_list@... [SergentEng] wrote:

 


"Rusty Metal Primer" is a specific type of paint, not a color.  Rust-Oleum is the Manufacture, Stops-Rust is the brand, Rusty Metal Primer is the product.  It has a specific chemical reaction that causes it to act as a sacrificial electrode.  This point was made earlier in this thread.
TCC:}

---In SergentEng@..., wrote :

thanks for the tips guys, went to two bunnings local to me, yup have rustoleum primer, in grey or white, but no rust colored.

thanks again for the tips, i will keep looking