Date   
Re: Coupler stock

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 

Ed;
The 3D print is used rather than a wax.  From there proceed as normal.
TCC:}

--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

TC
I only have one 3D modeled item on the internet. It's a coupler box for Sergent Sharron Couplers that uses a coil spring to center the coupler from the outside rear of the coupler shank. It's at the Shapeways Stores in my shop called "Lima Shops"

Dale Buxton

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:41 AM Talmadge C 'TC' Carr <group_list@...> wrote:
Dale;
Where might one find your stuff on the overgrown web??
TCC:}
--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest

Re: Coupler stock

Edward Sutorik
 

I understand how using the 3D printer works.  I just don't see how it's a necessity for producing investment cast coupler parts.  There IS the old way.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Jamison Amis
 

Ed,

I'd think that doing the castings "the old way" would likely lead to a greater possibility of yielding parts with notable deviation in dimensional tolerances, which could create serious operational reliability issues when you're talking about a precision miniature mechanism like a Sergent coupler.

A 3D Printer should permit tighter tolerances to be achieved on a much more consistent basis, nevermind that it would reduce the workload needed to make each individual piece.



Jamison Amis


On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 3:48 PM Edward Sutorik via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik=aol.com@groups.io wrote:
I understand how using the 3D printer works.  I just don't see how it's a necessity for producing investment cast coupler parts.  There IS the old way.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

The old way is also the vastly more expensive and time consuming method too. Unless you have the injection molding equipment in house. Every mold modification needs to be tested in an injection molding machine before production can even start to begin.

So, there’s that.

Dale Buxton

Re: Coupler stock

Edward Sutorik
 

Investment casting doesn't use injection molding equipment.

Reading this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_casting

there is a comment:  "In recent years the production of patterns using 3D printing has become popular...in which case one goes directly to step 5."  From step 1.  So, Steps 2, 3, and 4 can be skipped.  What the 3D element does is make it quite a bit easier to produce the wax patterns.  However, Cal Scale was making wonderful investment castings YEARS ago without 3D printing.  And Kemtron before them.

I believe the earlier investment cast Sergent parts were done using steps 2-3-4.  And I believe that Frank is either getting very tired of dealing with steps 2-3-4, and/or he's yearning to cut the costs of using steps 2-3-4.

Since 3D printing is mentioned in the article, it has obviously been in substantial usage.  So it's not like Frank is going where no one has gone before.  But there might very well be start-up expenses.  And start-up mistakes.  But I doubt that it's anywhere near impossible.  Maybe just too expensive.  Or irritating.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Andrew
 

Ed,

Read Frank’s reply on Dec 7.  He was using an Evisiontec printer before.  That printer is no longer operational, and I gather by Frank’s comments they aren’t the most pleasant group to deal with.

Andrew




On Monday, December 10, 2018, 8:19 PM, Edward Sutorik via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

Investment casting doesn't use injection molding equipment.

Reading this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_casting

there is a comment:  "In recent years the production of patterns using 3D printing has become popular...in which case one goes directly to step 5."  From step 1.  So, Steps 2, 3, and 4 can be skipped.  What the 3D element does is make it quite a bit easier to produce the wax patterns.  However, Cal Scale was making wonderful investment castings YEARS ago without 3D printing.  And Kemtron before them.

I believe the earlier investment cast Sergent parts were done using steps 2-3-4.  And I believe that Frank is either getting very tired of dealing with steps 2-3-4, and/or he's yearning to cut the costs of using steps 2-3-4.

Since 3D printing is mentioned in the article, it has obviously been in substantial usage.  So it's not like Frank is going where no one has gone before.  But there might very well be start-up expenses.  And start-up mistakes.  But I doubt that it's anywhere near impossible.  Maybe just too expensive.  Or irritating.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Mark
 

I would think that a really great outcome of the performance algorithm may very well be having both cv3 and4 set to zero.  That is have no inherent momentum settings on board.  In stead if we take EVERYTHING that impacts momentum as a calculation then we could make every engine controlled with the throttle act properly all the time.  It has the added benefit that if we have modeller using software application like for example traincontroller there is not going to be an issues.  Traincontroller itself works out all those momentum type of details and by default requires cv3/4 be set to zero.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 at 11:42, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
The old way is also the vastly more expensive and time consuming method too. Unless you have the injection molding equipment in house. Every mold modification needs to be tested in an injection molding machine before production can even start to begin.

So, there’s that.

Dale Buxton

Re: Coupler stock

Edward Sutorik
 

Andrew,

Thanks for pointing that out.  I missed it.  So he needs a new printer.  And doesn't like the folks who made the old one.  Sounds so familiar--I bought a Canon iPf 5100.  Ink jet, not 3D.

I surely hope this problem gets worked out.  So much is dead in the water, here.  I had to go back to making my #20 rail-bound frogs.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

I was talking about Franks Die-cast couplers and not the printed ones. But my read in the internet has told me that wax printing machines for jewelry and dentistry have bee around for something lke 30 plus years now. 

Dale Buxton

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:42 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
The old way is also the vastly more expensive and time consuming method too. Unless you have the injection molding equipment in house. Every mold modification needs to be tested in an injection molding machine before production can even start to begin.

So, there’s that.

Dale Buxton

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

Oh Investment casting certainly can and does use injection molded waxes! Look at these examples. The youtube vid is pretty self explanatory.



https://www.milwaukeeprec.com/investment-castings.html?pmc=BC 1&_vsrefdom=ppcbing&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=iso%20%2Bcastings&utm_campaign=Investment%20Casting&utm_content=Iso%20Investment%20Casting

Dale Buxton

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:19 PM Edward Sutorik via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Investment casting doesn't use injection molding equipment.

Reading this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_casting

there is a comment:  "In recent years the production of patterns using 3D printing has become popular...in which case one goes directly to step 5."  From step 1.  So, Steps 2, 3, and 4 can be skipped.  What the 3D element does is make it quite a bit easier to produce the wax patterns.  However, Cal Scale was making wonderful investment castings YEARS ago without 3D printing.  And Kemtron before them.

I believe the earlier investment cast Sergent parts were done using steps 2-3-4.  And I believe that Frank is either getting very tired of dealing with steps 2-3-4, and/or he's yearning to cut the costs of using steps 2-3-4.

Since 3D printing is mentioned in the article, it has obviously been in substantial usage.  So it's not like Frank is going where no one has gone before.  But there might very well be start-up expenses.  And start-up mistakes.  But I doubt that it's anywhere near impossible.  Maybe just too expensive.  Or irritating.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Logan Thurman
 

Welp, I know the feeling all to well. I've been rebuilding my 3d Printer for the past two years and now I wish I could just get a new one, I've been trying to get wax models for my Brass and Steel hybrid GS-3 4-8-4 I've been trying to get started in the casting process of the Frame and other required parts for it.


On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 2:35 AM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Oh Investment casting certainly can and does use injection molded waxes! Look at these examples. The youtube vid is pretty self explanatory.



https://www.milwaukeeprec.com/investment-castings.html?pmc=BC 1&_vsrefdom=ppcbing&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=iso%20%2Bcastings&utm_campaign=Investment%20Casting&utm_content=Iso%20Investment%20Casting

Dale Buxton

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:19 PM Edward Sutorik via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Investment casting doesn't use injection molding equipment.

Reading this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_casting

there is a comment:  "In recent years the production of patterns using 3D printing has become popular...in which case one goes directly to step 5."  From step 1.  So, Steps 2, 3, and 4 can be skipped.  What the 3D element does is make it quite a bit easier to produce the wax patterns.  However, Cal Scale was making wonderful investment castings YEARS ago without 3D printing.  And Kemtron before them.

I believe the earlier investment cast Sergent parts were done using steps 2-3-4.  And I believe that Frank is either getting very tired of dealing with steps 2-3-4, and/or he's yearning to cut the costs of using steps 2-3-4.

Since 3D printing is mentioned in the article, it has obviously been in substantial usage.  So it's not like Frank is going where no one has gone before.  But there might very well be start-up expenses.  And start-up mistakes.  But I doubt that it's anywhere near impossible.  Maybe just too expensive.  Or irritating.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

n-2-a couplers

Martin Matsil
 

any one make couplers like the n-2 A type used on  the LIRR,mu cars,would be great for all trains.!

Re: n-2-a couplers

Markus Nee
 

The closest I've been able to find are Japanese-prototype Shibata couplers from Kato and Tomix, which look more like Scharfenberg couplers than N-2-A. They're quite a bit oversized in Japanese HO (1/80), and the Tomix and Kato couplers don't seem to be compatible with each other so you'd need to pick a brand and stick with it. For subway cars and light rail, you might be able to use their N scale versions as stand-ins for HO Tomlinson couplers.

I'd also be interested in some prototypical N-2-A couplers of Sergent quality. It seems like they would require quite a bit of development work.

Markus


On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:48 PM Martin Matsil via Groups.Io <martinmatsil1953=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
any one make couplers like the n-2 A type used on  the LIRR,mu cars,would be great for all trains.!

Rivarossi Heisler conversion.

Andrew
 

Has anyone installed Sergent couplers on a Rivarossi Heisler.  Has anyone used the metal coupler pocket for this conversion?

Thank you

Andrew

Membership

Nick Brown
 

I have been an HOn3 modeler for more than 40 years.  I've always used Kay Dee couplers.  I was inspired to try Sergents by articles in the HOn3 annuals but only got the proverbial 'round to it' a few days ago.   I'm wondering how anyone keeps those little springs from flying away.  I'm trying a method that doesn't use springs.   Hope it works. 

Nick Brown, Boise, Idaho

Re: Membership

Andrew
 

 Nick,

I use a magnetized set of tweezers to pick up the spring.  I insert the tweezers inside the circular end of the spring then slide the spring against the mounting post in the coupler box.  I use a toothpick  or the wooden dowel that comes with the starter pack to slide the spring off the tweezers and push it down level. 

I only use a spring if the coupler feels loose in its side to side motion.

Ive had about a 90% success rate with this method.   YMMV.

Andrew

Re: Membership

Dale Buxton
 

You don’t have to have the springs in there you know. They are only there to keep the coupler in specific position for coupling.  I personally don’t use the springs and they work fine for me without them.

There is a school of thought that Sergents need to modified to automatically center the couplers. I personally don’t see the need. To each their own I guess.

Dale




On Thursday, January 3, 2019, 17:00, Nick Brown <nsbrown455@...> wrote:

I have been an HOn3 modeler for more than 40 years.  I've always used Kay Dee couplers.  I was inspired to try Sergents by articles in the HOn3 annuals but only got the proverbial 'round to it' a few days ago.   I'm wondering how anyone keeps those little springs from flying away.  I'm trying a method that doesn't use springs.   Hope it works. 

Nick Brown, Boise, Idaho

Re: Membership

Andrew
 

Dale,

I seen people mention that.  To me it ruins the whole point of having Sergent couplers.  I don’t get the automatic centering thought process.

Andrew

Re: Membership

Dale Buxton
 

Yup Andrew, me either. Unless you want them to work like Kadee 714's with the trip pins removed. To me that is like a GIANT step backwards with Sergents. I designed a coupler box that would do this centering chore for Sergents and I sell it on Shapeways. Sales have been very slow. It was not a project  that wanted for myself. Rather, I did it as a project to see if there was really a large interest in this whole coupler centering thing. For myself, I use prototypical coupling practices. My grandfather and his father were Switchmen. What grandad taught me about car movements and the coupling of cars to trains works just fine with Sergent Couplers. Nuff said.

Dale 


On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 8:10 PM ihtsbih_2014 via Groups.Io <ihtsbih_2014=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Dale,

I seen people mention that.  To me it ruins the whole point of having Sergent couplers.  I don’t get the automatic centering thought process.

Andrew