Date   
Re: [SergentEng] LaBelle Cars

Mike Van Hove
 

Michael,  I think this is the only practical solution.  It’s what I plan to do.

Thanks,
Mike

On Feb 20, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Michael michael.graff@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

I filed the original "pocket" down and installed the Sergent Sharon in place.

Michael Graff "Deo adjuvante labor proficit"


-------- Ursprungligt meddelande --------
Från:"Mike Van Hove mvanhove@... [SergentEng]" 
Skickat:Sat, 20 Feb 2016 22:37:00 +0100
Till:sergenteng@yahoogroups.com
Ämne:[SergentEng] LaBelle Cars

 

Hi, group,

I’m building some HOn3 LaBelle Passenger car kits.

So far, so good, but I’m a bit stymied as to how to do the couplers. I want to use (Naturally) the Sergent HOn3 Sharon Couplers. However, the casting that is for the end platform, coupler mount and truck bolster seems to leave a lot to be desired.

As those of you who have built some of the kits know, the instructions leave quite a bit up to your imagination. Especially in regard to coupler mounting.

The younger, brasher side of me says, “Trash this casting and build something new, from the ground up.” The older, wiser side of me says, “ Ask the group, they surely must have been there, done that.”

I did dig out the 2014 issue of the HOn3 Annual, from White River, which has a very good article on installing couplers on HOn3 rolling stock. However, the article does not deal with the LaBelle type of mounting.

So, if one or more of you folks out there has the solution to this, I would love to hear from you.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

Mike Van Hove

mvanhove@...



FC87K

Joe Schmo
 

I heard these would be back in stock in about two weeks but that was about six weeks ago. Has anyone heard anything different on the FC87K tight locks?

Re: FC87K

Frank Sergent
 

Hello Beach Bum and group,

The FC87K's are on the way again. I have a terrible track record of predicting when things like this will happen. It always seems like two weeks away. Here's what I know... I am currently printing and collecting patterns that look very good and I'll have enough to tree and cast this weekend. Once that's done, its really just a matter of packing them up in little envelopes. Sounds like less than two weeks. I hope that turns out to be the case.

Thanks,
Frank

Happy Easter.

claudino.john@...
 

Happy Easter to all.


John Claudino

aztectrains.com


More couplers!!

Nathan Rich
 

Put a few packages together today. I started by putting a strip of double sided tape on a piece of foam core board, laid out the main body castings and the bottom castings, shot them with a blast of rustoleum primer, and left them to cure in the sun for a few hours.

Then I threw them together, I'm letting the glue dry overnight before doing the breakin process. Also gives me a chance to find my mechanical pencil....

Nathan Rich

Is there a maximum train length?

Andrew
 

Hello,
I recently had the pleasure of operating on a layout with Sergent Engineering couplers. I liked them enough that I thought I would give the kits a try. I happen to belong to a modular model railroad club and we sometimes run scale mile or longer trains. My questions: Is there a maximum train length for these couplers, and has anyone had a coupler open due to excessive force? From what I observed on the layout I operated, it appears that there will be no issues.

Andrew

Re: [SergentEng] Is there a maximum train length?

Tim L
 

Hi Andrew,

Welcome to the world of Sergent couplers.

Some time ago Frank made a reply somewhere about how much force could be experienced by the couplers, or something similar along those lines.
I'll have to see if I can find it, but not right now, it's lunch time
(past lunch actually) and I'm pretty hungry.

Another way to see though is to put one car with a Sergent at one end
and a normal "other coupler" at the other end as the first car behind the loco's (assuming loco's are Sergent equipped). Then you can just
keep adding "other coupler" equipped cars behind and see if or when
the Sergent fails.

If you have no Sergent equipped loco's you can still do this but it
requires two of the converter cars, coupled Sergent to Sergent.

Cheers,

Tim

On 01/04/2016 11:29, Andrew Porter ihtsbih_2014@... [SergentEng] wrote:
Hello,
I recently had the pleasure of operating on a layout with Sergent
Engineering couplers. I liked them enough that I thought I would give
the kits a try. I happen to belong to a modular model railroad club and
we sometimes run scale mile or longer trains. My questions: Is there a
maximum train length for these couplers, and has anyone had a coupler
open due to excessive force? From what I observed on the layout I
operated, it appears that there will be no issues.

Andrew

Re: [SergentEng] Is there a maximum train length?

Tim L
 

Ok, lunch done. I found what Frank had said on Scarpia's Trains website.

http://www.garbo.org/MRR/tott/sargent.html (link out of courtesy).

I don't think anyone's actually tried a failure test by loading up
a coupler attached to a force gauge. It would be interesting.

Cheers,

Tim

---- Begin what Frank said ----
Seventy cars that weigh 3 oz would need about [70 cars X 3 oz/car X 0.01) =
] 2.1 oz of pull on straight and level track. That will require one average
HO diesel to pull it. This isn't even starting to stress the couplers. No
problem.

Seventy cars that weight 3 oz going around a reasonable curve, and up a 3%
grade will need about [70 cars X 3 oz/car X (0.01 + 0.02 + 0.03) = ] 8.4 oz
of pull. That's about 3 decent engines to pull it. Again, we aren't
stressing the couplers at all.

Ten average diesels all pulling together will against a nail driven in the
middle of the track will start spinning their wheels at about [(10 X 3.5 oz)
= ] 35 oz of pull. The couplers will feel that for sure, but this is still
no problem.

Twenty really good diesels all pulling against the nail can generate [(20 X
4.5 oz) = ] 90 oz of pull before the wheels start spinning. That's enough to
make me nervous, but still below any sort of failure point as long as the
couplers are assembled correctly.

Forty really good diesels all pulling against the nail will generate 180 oz
of drawbar pull. That's just silly.

I don't think 70 cars would be a problem at all.

Back when Railmodel Journal was still alive, they printed a Performance
Summary of locomotives in what seemed like every issue that was pretty
useful. It gave tractive force measurements for all sorts of locomotives.

Thanks,
Frank

---- End what Frank said ---

On 01/04/2016 11:29, Andrew Porter ihtsbih_2014@... [SergentEng] wrote:
Hello,
I recently had the pleasure of operating on a layout with Sergent
Engineering couplers. I liked them enough that I thought I would give
the kits a try. I happen to belong to a modular model railroad club and
we sometimes run scale mile or longer trains. My questions: Is there a
maximum train length for these couplers, and has anyone had a coupler
open due to excessive force? From what I observed on the layout I
operated, it appears that there will be no issues.

Andrew

Re: Is there a maximum train length?

Dave Snyder
 

Hi Andrew, I have been using Sergent couplers for about 10 years and have not had a coupler fracture, but occasionally I get an uncoupling that I attribute to a track geometry/harmonics phenomenon. If it repeats, I simply
turn one car around or move the car in the lineup and that usually remedies the problem. I did drop a car once and it landed on the coupler, didn't damage the coupler, but the pocket(s) had to be replaced and I changed it to the Accurail scale pockets. It looked better anyway and the coupler worked fine. Although I only occasionally run a long train, the track geometry/harmonics happens on shorter trains as well, although it is rare in either case.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.

Re: Is there a maximum train length?

Alan Hummel
 

  Andrew,

Early on after Frank die cast his E coupler,the question of strength came out-this was at least 2009. A couple of modelers tied a cement block to a coupler somehow as I remember,& the Sergent didn't fail.

I plan on 20 car trains,maybe 25 as I have Atlas diesels & that's what I was told an engine could pull per unit not in lash ups. So I figure I'm ok,but I have to remember,even if a knuckle fails,it happens on the prototype as nothing is 100%.

Your question is a good one & the answer might still be listed under,"Frequently Asked Questions," at the Sergent home page.

Hope this helps.

Al Hummel

Re: Is there a maximum train length?

James Wall
 

I have experienced on failure of Sergent type E. I have a forty car train of the old Roundhouse Ortner 5 bay hoppers that are weighted to about 12 ounces, give or take. On my 2.5% incline with One Kato SD45 and two Kato SD40-2’s pulling and two Atlas SD24’s(new version) in helper service on the end, the train crested and some slacked. When the slack was taken up the coupler between the two SD24’s broke the shank.

When I took the coupler piece out of the loco I examined it and it looked bent. I am sure this loco took a hit some time or the coupler shank was bent when I installed it without seeing it.
This coupler would have come from some of the earliest Sergents, like right after Frank started.

I would not be to concerned about a 20 to 25 car train. My cars are weighted to way above NMRA standards, so this train by my rough math is something like 30 pounds in just the cars.

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC

Re: [SergentEng] Re: Is there a maximum train length?

Tim L
 

If those couplers are from that long ago then they are likely the
pewter cast variety which isn't a bad testament given the service they
must have seen. The newer zinc cast should be even stronger.

Tim

On 03/04/2016 04:26, James Wall @nsc39dash8 [SergentEng] wrote:
I have experienced on failure of Sergent type E. I have a forty car
train of the old Roundhouse Ortner 5 bay hoppers that are weighted to
about 12 ounces, give or take. On my 2.5% incline with One Kato SD45 and
two Kato SD40-2’s pulling and two Atlas SD24’s(new version) in helper
service on the end, the train crested and some slacked. When the slack
was taken up the coupler between the two SD24’s broke the shank.

When I took the coupler piece out of the loco I examined it and it
looked bent. I am sure this loco took a hit some time or the coupler
shank was bent when I installed it without seeing it.
This coupler would have come from some of the earliest Sergents, like
right after Frank started.

I would not be to concerned about a 20 to 25 car train. My cars are
weighted to way above NMRA standards, so this train by my rough math is
something like 30 pounds in just the cars.

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC

Re: [SergentEng] Re: Is there a maximum train length?

Andrew
 

Thank you for your replies.
I received an email from one of the members informing me of his assembly service for sergent couplers.  This led me believe that there was some confusion.  I have no intention of converting any couplers other than on my own rolling stock.  I must have left the perception that my whole club was converting unintentionally.

Andrew 

On Apr 1, 2016, at 2:04 AM, "davesnyder59@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Hi Andrew, I have been using Sergent couplers for about 10 years and have not had a coupler fracture, but occasionally I get an uncoupling that I attribute to a track geometry/harmonics phenomenon. If it repeats, I simply
turn one car around or move the car in the lineup and that usually remedies the problem. I did drop a car once and it landed on the coupler, didn't damage the coupler, but the pocket(s) had to be replaced and I changed it to the Accurail scale pockets. It looked better anyway and the coupler worked fine. Although I only occasionally run a long train, the track geometry/harmonics happens on shorter trains as well, although it is rare in either case.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.

Re: [SergentEng] Re: Is there a maximum train length?

Alan Hummel
 

Andrew,

Do you know the members name& how to reach him?

Al


On Sunday, April 3, 2016 9:46 AM, "Andrew Porter ihtsbih_2014@... [SergentEng]" wrote:


 
Thank you for your replies.
I received an email from one of the members informing me of his assembly service for sergent couplers.  This led me believe that there was some confusion.  I have no intention of converting any couplers other than on my own rolling stock.  I must have left the perception that my whole club was converting unintentionally.

Andrew 

On Apr 1, 2016, at 2:04 AM, "davesnyder59@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 
Hi Andrew, I have been using Sergent couplers for about 10 years and have not had a coupler fracture, but occasionally I get an uncoupling that I attribute to a track geometry/harmonics phenomenon. If it repeats, I simply
turn one car around or move the car in the lineup and that usually remedies the problem. I did drop a car once and it landed on the coupler, didn't damage the coupler, but the pocket(s) had to be replaced and I changed it to the Accurail scale pockets. It looked better anyway and the coupler worked fine. Although I only occasionally run a long train, the track geometry/harmonics happens on shorter trains as well, although it is rare in either case.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.


Re: [SergentEng] Re: Is there a maximum train length?

Andrew
 

Al,
Unfortunately I deleted the both the unsolicited email after replying that I was uninterested in paying additional money for these couplers, and my reply accidentally.

Andrew 

On Apr 3, 2016, at 10:19 AM, "Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Andrew,

Do you know the members name& how to reach him?

Al


On Sunday, April 3, 2016 9:46 AM, "Andrew Porter ihtsbih_2014@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 
Thank you for your replies.
I received an email from one of the members informing me of his assembly service for sergent couplers.  This led me believe that there was some confusion.  I have no intention of converting any couplers other than on my own rolling stock.  I must have left the perception that my whole club was converting unintentionally.

Andrew 

On Apr 1, 2016, at 2:04 AM, "davesnyder59@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 
Hi Andrew, I have been using Sergent couplers for about 10 years and have not had a coupler fracture, but occasionally I get an uncoupling that I attribute to a track geometry/harmonics phenomenon. If it repeats, I simply
turn one car around or move the car in the lineup and that usually remedies the problem. I did drop a car once and it landed on the coupler, didn't damage the coupler, but the pocket(s) had to be replaced and I changed it to the Accurail scale pockets. It looked better anyway and the coupler worked fine. Although I only occasionally run a long train, the track geometry/harmonics happens on shorter trains as well, although it is rare in either case.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.


Re: [SergentEng] walthers amfleet cars

Alden G. McBee
 

My solution (sort of) for my newest Amfleet cars, until we can find a better solution, is to use Kadees (with the trip pin gladhand snipped off) between the Amfleet cars and use the Sergent type H on the front and rear of of the consist.  The Kadees have enough slop to let the diaphragms function, still maintain relatively prototype distance between cars, and are not visible under the diaphragms.  The beautiful type H couplers at the ends are very visible, however. This works for me as I am doing no switching with passenger cars.  If there were a special type H coupler with a slightly oval mounting hole and the spring slot behind the hole so the coupler could move forward slightly (like a cushioning device), the type H would probably work between the cars—or maybe an aftermarket more flexible diaphragm someday.  
—Alden McBee

  On Dec 14, 2015, at 7:46 PM, Nathan Rich thaddeusthudpucker@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

On my friend's layout I was having problems with my Coast Starlight train, the F couplers I used on the locomotives and the H coupler on the front of the baggage car did not like his trackwork. He has too much vertical curve in places, which is caused by lack of quality control on the construction of the benchwork and having the transitions between graded and level track be too much. This is where having proper coupler height really comes into play!


I love the H couplers and they look amazing on my Sounder cars and Amtrak stock. On the Sounders I did need to revert to Kadee between the cars and between the locomotive and F on the locomotive and H on the cab car. I'd like to have them all in their proper place but having good track to run on is key.

Nathan Rich

On Monday, December 14, 2015, 'David R. Olsen' drolsen@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

Hi Alden,

 

Thanks, I didn't realize the new Amfleet cars had a different style of diaphragm spring, but it makes sense that they would be evolving.  I always thought the old metal leaf spring was kind of "iffy," since it was at risk of popping loose inside the car, but that also made it fixable, whereas if plastic tabs on a one-piece diaphragm break, you're out of luck.

 

Walthers used to be good about spare parts.  When the first couple runs of Superliners came out, the windows were glued inside the undecorated cars, and Walthers sent me some spare windows and diaphragms after I broke a couple parts trying to disassemble one of the cars.  A few years ago, I bought a couple cheap Walthers passenger cars at a show that came without grab irons, and Walthers was willing to sell me a couple packets of the grabs.  I'm not sure I'd have that kind of luck getting parts now.  I haven't tried myself 

 

I'm not sure if you've seen the TSP Amfleet diaphragms, but they are very thin in profile (like the prototype), about 1/3 of the Walthers version, so I'm not how you'd mount springs to them and conceal the springs.

 

Back to Sergents, I really need to get back to working on my Amtrak equipment now that I have some Type H couplers - they are fantastic, like every Sergent coupler, and they are one of the details that I waiting for to move forward with my Amtrak modeling.

 

Dave Olsen

Alexandria, VA
 

On Dec 13, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Alden G. McBee agm@... wrote: 
Hi Dave. The cars I have use a plastic leaf spring on each side of the diaphragm that is cast as part of the diaphragm. It seems to make the diaphragm bottom out too soon and not let it swivel enough. There may not be enough swivel even if the spring were removed. I have hesitated working on it without a spare as I don’t know if they can be purchased from Walthers; I need to give them a call. I have also considered trying to add springs to Train Station Products Amfleet diaphragms, but I haven’t checked to see if they are the same size, and it would probably be more difficult than using the originals. 
Alden McBee 
Wheeling, WV 



Need sergent advice !

Matt S
 

Hey folks, i need your thoughts and expertise. I am a totally ignorant newbie so speak in potato head terms. 

I am building a timesaver switching layout. mostly to learn all the things i need to know for my big lay out. the theme is inside a steel mill. i have the following:

a walther heritage usra 0-6-0 switcher.
http://www.raleigh-nc.com/Railroad/models/SAL/steam/Proto%202000%20Heritage%20Steam%20USRA%200-6-0%20SAL.gif

comes with kaydee #5s

two of these hot metal cars:



two of these ingot cars: 


two of these hoppers :




 



What couplers do i need? and do youhave advice on how to put them in? 

thanks guys! 

Re: Need sergent advice !

Dave Snyder
 

Hello ?, nice to sign your posts so you can be addressed correctly.

The Proto 2000 Steamer says Kadee #5 couplers so the Sergent EC87K should drop right into the pocket once you have removed the lid and screw.

The Southern Car and Foundry units appear to be Kadee #5s, but I would query the company to make sure as well as inquire as to any perplexities with coupler change out.

The Westerfield resin kits are less trucks and couplers, so you could buy Kadee #5 pockets and install  as above or try the newer scale pocketed EN87A couplers and don't forget to order the trucks as well. These resin kits will need assembly with various adhesives, painting, and decal application and over coating to protect the decals. They can be daunting to complete, but a lot of modelers enjoy the adventure.

I would start by using the assembled Sergents at first.
Check back with the group as you progress and feel free to ask questions.

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.

Re: Need sergent advice !

Matt S
 

Sorry Dave, hi I'm Matt. Lol.

Ok, I'll try those out. The engine has kadee #5s, so ill do as you advised, The kits all seem to come with kadee 158s. Is that some thing that has a straight a Ross trade as well?

Thanks!

Re: [SergentEng] Re: Need sergent advice !

Rob Barker
 

Yep, the EC87K fit where the 158s fit.

Rob

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 3:55 PM, sav12man@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

Sorry Dave, hi I'm Matt. Lol.

Ok, I'll try those out. The engine has kadee #5s, so ill do as you advised, The kits all seem to come with kadee 158s. Is that some thing that has a straight a Ross trade as well?

Thanks!