Date   
Re: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

David Heine <davesn3@...>
 

I’m another one on the list.

 

Dave Heine

 

 

From: SergentEng@... [mailto:SergentEng@...] On Behalf Of Mike Conder
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 1:04 PM
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: RE: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

 

 

Do how many people on this list are waiting for the S scale couplers?

Mike Conder

 


From: trevor@... <trevor@...>;
To: <SergentEng@...>;
Subject: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG
Sent: Mon, Dec 23, 2013 5:07:58 PM

 

 

Thanks for posting the photo, Frank.

You mentioned a while back that the S scale design wasn't working - can you elaborate on what it's not doing?

Also, I'm playing catch-up on these - can you give us a bit more info? Will they be die-cast like your EN87 couplers, or will they be white metal like the old S scale couplers, or something else? Will you offer them pre-assembled, like the EN87A?

I always had trouble building your old S scale couplers - it was not a fault of the coupler, but rather my skills were insufficient for work where finishes and tolerances were critical. So after trying the S scale kits I switch to your EN87A couplers on my Maine two-foot (On2) layout and loved them.

I'm now working in S scale standard gauge, and would love to give the new couplers a try - once they're ready for market, of course.

Cheers!

- Trevor

 

Trevor Marshall

 

Port Rowan in S

I model a steam-era Canadian National branch line terminal in S scale, and blog about it here:

http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s

Re: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

jerry via FMW.com
 

Mike,

My son and I are in need of the couplers.

Jerry Kitts


On Dec 23, 2013, at 10:03 AM, Mike Conder wrote:

 

Do how many people on this list are waiting for the S scale couplers?

Mike Conder



Jerry Kitts
Foothill Model Works
Visit our web site at
(707) 459-5587



Re: S scale is BIG

Tom P
 

I have a small switching layout but still could get more than 50 pairs in S.  I'm looking forward to it.

Re: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

Frank Sergent
 

Hi Trevor,

I think the operational problems with the S scale coupler have been solved. I had to take about 0.002" off the perimeter of the knuckle and they seem to work ok now. There are still some manufacturing issues that mean the sprue on the knuckle is more pronouced than I would like. After the sprue location is filed smooth, the couplers seem to work fine. I don't know if I can solve this problem or not. If not, the knuckles will have to be filed as part of the assembly process. Its not hard or critical, but it takes more time than I like. I had already decided that the S scale couplers would be offered in kit form only. I don't have enough cheap labor (family members) to dedicate to assembly of these. All castings for the S scale coupler will be investment cast from 3D printed waxes. This means they will be MUCH easier to deal with than the old spin cast couplers. I don't suspect you will have any trouble building them, even if I can't get the knuckle manufacturing issue worked out.

Frank

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG
From: <trevor@...>
Date: Mon, December 23, 2013 12:07 pm
To: <SergentEng@...>

 
Thanks for posting the photo, Frank.
You mentioned a while back that the S scale design wasn't working - can you elaborate on what it's not doing?
Also, I'm playing catch-up on these - can you give us a bit more info? Will they be die-cast like your EN87 couplers, or will they be white metal like the old S scale couplers, or something else? Will you offer them pre-assembled, like the EN87A?
I always had trouble building your old S scale couplers - it was not a fault of the coupler, but rather my skills were insufficient for work where finishes and tolerances were critical. So after trying the S scale kits I switch to your EN87A couplers on my Maine two-foot (On2) layout and loved them.
I'm now working in S scale standard gauge, and would love to give the new couplers a try - once they're ready for market, of course.
Cheers!
- Trevor

Trevor Marshall

Port Rowan in S
I model a steam-era Canadian National branch line terminal in S scale, and blog about it here:

Re: S scale is BIG

simon.dunkley@...
 

---In SergentEng@{{emailDomain}}, <trevor@...> wrote:

|Hi again Frank. The S scale couplers are not huge. The HO couplers are TINY... ;-) 

It's all a matter of having the correct perspective.. ;)

(S might be 136% bigger than H0 in linear terms, but in terms of volume and mass, it is 252%...)


Another increment on the list of S scalers...


Re: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

Peter Vanvliet <groups@...>
 

Mike,

I am eagerly anticipating the arrival of the Sergent S-scale coupler. I had bought a couple of the old version, which I liked. I also bought a couple of the HO-scale new versions, so that I could try them out (building them; not using them on an S-scale car).

These are going to be my fleet standard. I have an immediate need of 15 pair, but I will buy more to be able provide couplers for future equipment purchases.

At first I was concerned about interoperability with Kadee couplers installed on other club members' equipment, but in reality each club member runs his own trains, so I can make my entire train use Sergent couplers and be happy.



Frank,

I would be OK with having to do some filing work on the coupler, if need be. Just my $0.02.

 - Peter.



On 12/23/2013 12:03 pm, Mike Conder wrote:
Do how many people on this list are waiting for the S scale couplers?

Mike Conder

Re: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

William Uffelman
 

Want them for On3 so bring them on!


Bill Uffelman

Practicing for retirement in Ocean View DE

Re: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

vulturenest1@...
 

I assume they would be a good fit for On30 too? Mike Conder

Re: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

William Uffelman
 

If you want something beefier than an HO KD or clone these will be great especially mounted at NMRA On3 height.


Bill Uffelman

S scale question

Michael <wsmwrr@...>
 

Frank,

When the S Scale couplers are officially for sale, how many will be in a pack? Enough for 2 cars? Also, are they still going to be made out of metal or are they going to be made from plastic using 3D printing? I plan on equipping my entire fleet of cars and locos with them for the rest of my modeling career.

Thanks
Michael Ostertag
Green Bay, WI

Re: [SergentEng] RE: S scale is BIG

Trevor at The Model Railway Show
 

Hi Frank:
Thanks for the additional information - much appreciated.
Non-critical filing? That I can do.
If I recall correctly in HO, you offer an assembly fixture to make things a little easier. I assume that since the S scale couplers are larger you won't be offering such a fixture for them, because it won't be needed...
This is GREAT news. I'm looking forward to these. Thanks for supporting S scale!
- Trevor

  Trevor Marshall
  Port Rowan in 1:64 - a steam-era Canadian National branch line terminal in S scale.
  http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s

Re: S scale is BIG

Earl Tuson
 

Frank,

I am very happy to see your progress on the new S coupler. I look forward to purchasing more from you.

Earl Tuson

Sergent dummy couplers

Jon Hall
 

Hello, new to the group. I am wondering if anyone has experience with the HO Glatzl dummy couplers that they are willing to share? Any brand cars that they are not compatible with? How do they compare to the Walthers dummy couplers? Thanks for any input.

Jon Hall

Re: [SergentEng] Sergent dummy couplers

Mike Van Hove
 

Jon,
I have used them on the pilot of Mantua, Bachmann and MDC.  They require some finagling (That's a technical term, used by coupler installers), and in a couple (no pun intended), of cases on the tender as well.   Some reaming may be necessary.  If you don't have one, I highly recommend the tapered reamer Sergent sells.  It may seem a little pricey, but after you use it, you will be very glad you bought it.
Now, you need to know, the Glatzl Coupler is solid, that is, the knuckle is fixed.  However, you can still couple up to another Sergent EC or EN type.   They aren't quite as realistic looking as the regular Sergents but barely noticeable difference.
A pack of (12), i think, is enough for starters, and pretty cheap.  Give 'em a try.  These sergents are kinda fun to screw around with.  I started with the 6 paks, and was immediately hooked on them.  Have now assembled and installed 300 EC87 & EN87, plus 8 Glatzl's.   Each installation gets a little easier, and there seems to be no end to the different ways to use them.

Try 'em, you'll like em.

The one caveat is:  if you're going to do them, you really need to plan on doing every car you have, as they really don't inter couple with Kadee's or accumates, etc.

Also, as you are assembling them, be sure to use some graphite.  I like to dip a Yellow handled Micro Brush in the Graphite and shove the brush into the knuckle opening, then twirl the brush while it's inside the opening.  That has worked best for me.  You can't get too much Graphite in there.  If you think you have, just tap the open end of the coupler on your work bench and the excess will come right out.  I found powdered Graphite to be superior to pencil lead, which some guys really like.  My trouble was all I had were 3H pencils and they are way too hard.  Some might say I didn't have enough lead in my pencil, but that's another story.

Let us know how you are getting on with them.


Smokey

"I'd never join a club that would have me as a member." Groucho Marx



On Dec 25, 2013, at 10:19 PM, <cnw8835@...> <cnw8835@...> wrote:

 

Hello, new to the group. I am wondering if anyone has experience with the HO Glatzl dummy couplers that they are willing to share? Any brand cars that they are not compatible with? How do they compare to the Walthers dummy couplers? Thanks for any input.

Jon Hall


Re: [SergentEng] Sergent dummy couplers

John Degnan
 

I'd like to add this... the Glatzl (Sergent) Dummy Couplers are by far the most realistic and well made dummy couplers I have seen/used in HO.  I have compared them, first hand, to the Accurail, Walthers and Grandt Line dummy couplers, and there is simply no comparison.  I have not yet comapred them to the two Cal Scale offerings or three Precision Scale offerings, so maybe someone else can elaborate on them...?
 
I would love to see the Glatzl offered in S scale.  (hint hint) (nudge nudge)  I have three unit trains that could really use them!
 
 
John Degnan
 


From: "Mike Van Hove"
To: SergentEng@...
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 12:27:59 AM
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] Sergent dummy couplers

 

Jon,

I have used them on the pilot of Mantua, Bachmann and MDC.  They require some finagling (That's a technical term, used by coupler installers), and in a couple (no pun intended), of cases on the tender as well.   Some reaming may be necessary.  If you don't have one, I highly recommend the tapered reamer Sergent sells.  It may seem a little pricey, but after you use it, you will be very glad you bought it.
Now, you need to know, the Glatzl Coupler is solid, that is, the knuckle is fixed.  However, you can still couple up to another Sergent EC or EN type.   They aren't quite as realistic looking as the regular Sergents but barely noticeable difference.
A pack of (12), i think, is enough for starters, and pretty cheap.  Give 'em a try.  These sergents are kinda fun to screw around with.  I started with the 6 paks, and was immediately hooked on them.  Have now assembled and installed 300 EC87 & EN87, plus 8 Glatzl's.   Each installation gets a little easier, and there seems to be no end to the different ways to use them.

Try 'em, you'll like em.

The one caveat is:  if you're going to do them, you really need to plan on doing every car you have, as they really don't inter couple with Kadee's or accumates, etc.

Also, as you are assembling them, be sure to use some graphite.  I like to dip a Yellow handled Micro Brush in the Graphite and shove the brush into the knuckle opening, then twirl the brush while it's inside the opening.  That has worked best for me.  You can't get too much Graphite in there.  If you think you have, just tap the open end of the coupler on your work bench and the excess will come right out.  I found powdered Graphite to be superior to pencil lead, which some guys really like.  My trouble was all I had were 3H pencils and they are way too hard.  Some might say I didn't have enough lead in my pencil, but that's another story.

Let us know how you are getting on with them.


Smokey

"I'd never join a club that would have me as a member." Groucho Marx



On Dec 25, 2013, at 10:19 PM, <cnw8835@...> <cnw8835@...> wrote:

 

Hello, new to the group. I am wondering if anyone has experience with the HO Glatzl dummy couplers that they are willing to share? Any brand cars that they are not compatible with? How do they compare to the Walthers dummy couplers? Thanks for any input.


Jon Hall



Re: [SergentEng] Sergent dummy couplers

Mike Van Hove
 

Since the Glatzl couplers look just a wee bit larger than the regular EC87 & EN87 couplers, why wont the Glatzl work for S Scale?  I'm not in S Scale, but it seems to me like a lot of S items are only a little bit larger.  Why not give them a try?

Smokie


On Dec 26, 2013, at 5:45 AM, Scaler164@... wrote:

 

I'd like to add this... the Glatzl (Sergent) Dummy Couplers are by far the most realistic and well made dummy couplers I have seen/used in HO.  I have compared them, first hand, to the Accurail, Walthers and Grandt Line dummy couplers, and there is simply no comparison.  I have not yet comapred them to the two Cal Scale offerings or three Precision Scale offerings, so maybe someone else can elaborate on them...?
 
I would love to see the Glatzl offered in S scale.  (hint hint) (nudge nudge)  I have three unit trains that could really use them!
 
 
John Degnan
 

From: "Mike Van Hove" <mvanhove@...>
To: SergentEng@...
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 12:27:59 AM
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] Sergent dummy couplers

 

Jon,

I have used them on the pilot of Mantua, Bachmann and MDC.  They require some finagling (That's a technical term, used by coupler installers), and in a couple (no pun intended), of cases on the tender as well.   Some reaming may be necessary.  If you don't have one, I highly recommend the tapered reamer Sergent sells.  It may seem a little pricey, but after you use it, you will be very glad you bought it.
Now, you need to know, the Glatzl Coupler is solid, that is, the knuckle is fixed.  However, you can still couple up to another Sergent EC or EN type.   They aren't quite as realistic looking as the regular Sergents but barely noticeable difference.
A pack of (12), i think, is enough for starters, and pretty cheap.  Give 'em a try.  These sergents are kinda fun to screw around with.  I started with the 6 paks, and was immediately hooked on them.  Have now assembled and installed 300 EC87 & EN87, plus 8 Glatzl's.   Each installation gets a little easier, and there seems to be no end to the different ways to use them.

Try 'em, you'll like em.

The one caveat is:  if you're going to do them, you really need to plan on doing every car you have, as they really don't inter couple with Kadee's or accumates, etc.

Also, as you are assembling them, be sure to use some graphite.  I like to dip a Yellow handled Micro Brush in the Graphite and shove the brush into the knuckle opening, then twirl the brush while it's inside the opening.  That has worked best for me.  You can't get too much Graphite in there.  If you think you have, just tap the open end of the coupler on your work bench and the excess will come right out.  I found powdered Graphite to be superior to pencil lead, which some guys really like.  My trouble was all I had were 3H pencils and they are way too hard.  Some might say I didn't have enough lead in my pencil, but that's another story.

Let us know how you are getting on with them.


Smokey

"I'd never join a club that would have me as a member." Groucho Marx



On Dec 25, 2013, at 10:19 PM, <cnw8835@...> <cnw8835@...> wrote:

 

Hello, new to the group. I am wondering if anyone has experience with the HO Glatzl dummy couplers that they are willing to share? Any brand cars that they are not compatible with? How do they compare to the Walthers dummy couplers? Thanks for any input.


Jon Hall





New Member

harfrompa2@...
 

Hi Everybody,


My name is Harry Downey and I am a new member to this list. I model in Sn2 and am using the Sargent HOn3 couplers. The discussion on the Neo -lub conversation was interesting.

Harry 

Re: [SergentEng] Sergent dummy couplers

John Degnan
 

I guess it's possible that their size might make them a good excuse for 3/4 scale S coupler... but in my opinion, not good enough for an S scale E coupler... at least not for my taste.  I won't even use the vast majority of Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars on an S scale layout since they are closer to 1/70 scale than 1/64 as they are so often, falsely credited for being.  We may not have near as much to work with in S scale (at least not at the time) as ither scales have, but we gotta have some standards... somewhere.
 
:)
 

John Degnan
 


From: "Mike Van Hove"
To: SergentEng@...
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 10:15:01 AM
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] Sergent dummy couplers

 

Since the Glatzl couplers look just a wee bit larger than the regular EC87 & EN87 couplers, why wont the Glatzl work for S Scale?  I'm not in S Scale, but it seems to me like a lot of S items are only a little bit larger.  Why not give them a try?


Smokie


On Dec 26, 2013, at 5:45 AM, Scaler164@... wrote:

 

I'd like to add this... the Glatzl (Sergent) Dummy Couplers are by far the most realistic and well made dummy couplers I have seen/used in HO.  I have compared them, first hand, to the Accurail, Walthers and Grandt Line dummy couplers, and there is simply no comparison.  I have not yet comapred them to the two Cal Scale offerings or three Precision Scale offerings, so maybe someone else can elaborate on them...?
 
I would love to see the Glatzl offered in S scale.  (hint hint) (nudge nudge)  I have three unit trains that could really use them!
 
 
John Degnan
 

From: "Mike Van Hove" <mvanhove@...>
To: SergentEng@...
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 12:27:59 AM
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] Sergent dummy couplers

 

Jon,

I have used them on the pilot of Mantua, Bachmann and MDC.  They require some finagling (That's a technical term, used by coupler installers), and in a couple (no pun intended), of cases on the tender as well.   Some reaming may be necessary.  If you don't have one, I highly recommend the tapered reamer Sergent sells.  It may seem a little pricey, but after you use it, you will be very glad you bought it.
Now, you need to know, the Glatzl Coupler is solid, that is, the knuckle is fixed.  However, you can still couple up to another Sergent EC or EN type.   They aren't quite as realistic looking as the regular Sergents but barely noticeable difference.
A pack of (12), i think, is enough for starters, and pretty cheap.  Give 'em a try.  These sergents are kinda fun to screw around with.  I started with the 6 paks, and was immediately hooked on them.  Have now assembled and installed 300 EC87 & EN87, plus 8 Glatzl's.   Each installation gets a little easier, and there seems to be no end to the different ways to use them.

Try 'em, you'll like em.

The one caveat is:  if you're going to do them, you really need to plan on doing every car you have, as they really don't inter couple with Kadee's or accumates, etc.

Also, as you are assembling them, be sure to use some graphite.  I like to dip a Yellow handled Micro Brush in the Graphite and shove the brush into the knuckle opening, then twirl the brush while it's inside the opening.  That has worked best for me.  You can't get too much Graphite in there.  If you think you have, just tap the open end of the coupler on your work bench and the excess will come right out.  I found powdered Graphite to be superior to pencil lead, which some guys really like.  My trouble was all I had were 3H pencils and they are way too hard.  Some might say I didn't have enough lead in my pencil, but that's another story.

Let us know how you are getting on with them.


Smokey

"I'd never join a club that would have me as a member." Groucho Marx



On Dec 25, 2013, at 10:19 PM, <cnw8835@...> <cnw8835@...> wrote:

 

Hello, new to the group. I am wondering if anyone has experience with the HO Glatzl dummy couplers that they are willing to share? Any brand cars that they are not compatible with? How do they compare to the Walthers dummy couplers? Thanks for any input.


Jon Hall







S Scale answers

Frank Sergent
 

Hi List, 

There have been a few questions regarding the not-yet-released S scale coupler over the last few days. I'll try to answer those as best I can here.


1. When will it be available? Probably late January. No promises though. It has to be right first.

2. Metal or Plastic? Metal. The 3D printing process provides plastic that I investment cast to turn it into metal. The metal is a zinc aluminum alloy not far from what the die cast couplers are made of.

3. Assembly Fixture? No fixture will be available. Are you kidding? These things are HUGE.

4. How many in a pack? Don't know yet. I haven't thought much about it. I haven't thought much about the price either. I'll have to sharpen my pencil there because 3D printing cost is based on volume and as some one pointed out these are 2 1/2 times bigger than the HO couplers by volume.

5. Will they work for On30? I guess. On30 typically uses KD #5 couplers or clones which means the mounting arrangement will be different for the Sergent couplers. The KD S scale coupler actually uses a mounting pin that is smaller in diameter than the HO scale #5 coupler. The Sergent coupler will use the smaller pin. The S Scale coupler will also be a type E coupler which I would guess was not too common on 30" gauge lines. It certainly wasn't common on 36" gauge lines. Still, it would be exactly 3/4 size in O scale. I guess that's a reasonable compromise. Personally, I don't like compromise, but that's just me.

Thanks,
Frank

Re: [SergentEng] S Scale answers

David Heine <davesn3@...>
 

Frank,

 

I guess if you made an S scale Sharon coupler that fit in a Kadee HO box, that would be better for an O scale ¾ size coupler and would also work for Sn3 for those narrow gauge roads that used the full size couplers, like the D&RGW and RGS.  With all you have been adding lately, that’s probably too much to hope for.  At least the Type E’s look better than a Kadee.

 

FYI, I ordered some of your narrow shank HO Sharon couplers for some Sn2 cars and also some of your long shank HO Type E for some Sn3 cars that were designed to use a Kadee #26 coupler. The long shank solved the biggest issue I had with using your couplers on my Sn3 cars.  Looking forward to converting my S standard gauge cars when the new couplers are available.

 

Dave Heine

Easton, PA

 

 

From: SergentEng@... [mailto:SergentEng@...] On Behalf Of fsergent@...
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 12:33 AM
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: [SergentEng] S Scale answers

 

 

Hi List, 

 

There have been a few questions regarding the not-yet-released S scale coupler over the last few days. I'll try to answer those as best I can here.

 

1. When will it be available? Probably late January. No promises though. It has to be right first.

 

2. Metal or Plastic? Metal. The 3D printing process provides plastic that I investment cast to turn it into metal. The metal is a zinc aluminum alloy not far from what the die cast couplers are made of.

 

3. Assembly Fixture? No fixture will be available. Are you kidding? These things are HUGE.

 

4. How many in a pack? Don't know yet. I haven't thought much about it. I haven't thought much about the price either. I'll have to sharpen my pencil there because 3D printing cost is based on volume and as some one pointed out these are 2 1/2 times bigger than the HO couplers by volume.

 

5. Will they work for On30? I guess. On30 typically uses KD #5 couplers or clones which means the mounting arrangement will be different for the Sergent couplers. The KD S scale coupler actually uses a mounting pin that is smaller in diameter than the HO scale #5 coupler. The Sergent coupler will use the smaller pin. The S Scale coupler will also be a type E coupler which I would guess was not too common on 30" gauge lines. It certainly wasn't common on 36" gauge lines. Still, it would be exactly 3/4 size in O scale. I guess that's a reasonable compromise. Personally, I don't like compromise, but that's just me.

 

Thanks,

Frank