Date   

Re: [SergentEng] Re: Recommendations and Advice for Someone New to Sergent Couplers

Alan Hummel
 

Rick,

That's a remarkable skill your son has. Builders in O Scale are especially badly needed & the money is great in that scale although it's a fantastic skill in any scale.

Glad to help with the couplers. These are indeed fine couplers. I started with Kadee but as soon as the shelf couplers came along I moved to all Sergent.

Good luck & if I can be of any help,drop me a line.

Al Hummel



On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:59 PM, "Richard Payne rpayne101@... [SergentEng]" wrote:


 
Mr. Hummel,

Thanks for your reply.  My son is 15.  I understand why you asked and no offense is taken.  He amazes me sometimes since he prefers to scratch build then build kits. He started making buildings out of paper, kind of mock setup, and then moved to plastic and wood.  He is teaching himself the 'art' of modeling.  I only help when he asks for help.  Kind of the way I learn how over the years.  He currently building a diorama of SFO back in the 40's at a scale of 1:400.  While it's not a scale I would start with, its turning out looking good.  It is his first real attempt at scratch building to boot.  With model railroading I am helping him with scenery and weathering.

We both belong to a local model railroad club so our rolling stock and motive power cover late 40's to late 60's.  Home layout will cover the 60's to present.  From what you say, I can pick up a mixture of couplers and install them per year and car type.  Thanks again for the info.

Best Regards,
Rick



On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 4:07 PM, "Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 
How old is your son? I ask because of the level of care needed for proper assembly for good working & that wasn't meant in a derogatory manner,just the opposite.

The type coupler you choose,depends to a high degree on the era you're modeling in. Before 1975,the common E coupler would be my coupler of choice.

In 1975,the Government mandated that all tank cars carrying hazardous materials,install the double shelf couplers to keep an adjoining common E coupler from sliding up & out of the coupler on the tank car&puncturing the tank. In years since that date,the railroads have changed much of their engines & rolling stock over to double shelf couplers for tankers and lower shelf couplers for non hazardous cargos.

Again,depending on your era of modeling interest,will depend on your couplers of choice. You can have E couplers,SE,(double shelf E couplers),SBE,(E lower shelf couplers),SF,(double shelf F couplers),F couplers&H couplers all intermingled,again depending on era of modeling. The H couplers are designed primarily for passenger trains.

Hope this helps.
Al Hummel





Re: [SergentEng] Re: Recommendations and Advice for Someone New to Sergent Couplers

Rick Payne
 

Mr. Hummel,

Thanks for your reply.  My son is 15.  I understand why you asked and no offense is taken.  He amazes me sometimes since he prefers to scratch build then build kits. He started making buildings out of paper, kind of mock setup, and then moved to plastic and wood.  He is teaching himself the 'art' of modeling.  I only help when he asks for help.  Kind of the way I learn how over the years.  He currently building a diorama of SFO back in the 40's at a scale of 1:400.  While it's not a scale I would start with, its turning out looking good.  It is his first real attempt at scratch building to boot.  With model railroading I am helping him with scenery and weathering.

We both belong to a local model railroad club so our rolling stock and motive power cover late 40's to late 60's.  Home layout will cover the 60's to present.  From what you say, I can pick up a mixture of couplers and install them per year and car type.  Thanks again for the info.

Best Regards,
Rick



On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 4:07 PM, "Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng]" wrote:


 
How old is your son? I ask because of the level of care needed for proper assembly for good working & that wasn't meant in a derogatory manner,just the opposite.

The type coupler you choose,depends to a high degree on the era you're modeling in. Before 1975,the common E coupler would be my coupler of choice.

In 1975,the Government mandated that all tank cars carrying hazardous materials,install the double shelf couplers to keep an adjoining common E coupler from sliding up & out of the coupler on the tank car&puncturing the tank. In years since that date,the railroads have changed much of their engines & rolling stock over to double shelf couplers for tankers and lower shelf couplers for non hazardous cargos.

Again,depending on your era of modeling interest,will depend on your couplers of choice. You can have E couplers,SE,(double shelf E couplers),SBE,(E lower shelf couplers),SF,(double shelf F couplers),F couplers&H couplers all intermingled,again depending on era of modeling. The H couplers are designed primarily for passenger trains.

Hope this helps.
Al Hummel



Re: Recommendations and Advice for Someone New to Sergent Couplers

Alan Hummel
 

How old is your son? I ask because of the level of care needed for proper assembly for good working & that wasn't meant in a derogatory manner,just the opposite.

The type coupler you choose,depends to a high degree on the era you're modeling in. Before 1975,the common E coupler would be my coupler of choice.

In 1975,the Government mandated that all tank cars carrying hazardous materials,install the double shelf couplers to keep an adjoining common E coupler from sliding up & out of the coupler on the tank car&puncturing the tank. In years since that date,the railroads have changed much of their engines & rolling stock over to double shelf couplers for tankers and lower shelf couplers for non hazardous cargos.

Again,depending on your era of modeling interest,will depend on your couplers of choice. You can have E couplers,SE,(double shelf E couplers),SBE,(E lower shelf couplers),SF,(double shelf F couplers),F couplers&H couplers all intermingled,again depending on era of modeling. The H couplers are designed primarily for passenger trains.

Hope this helps.
Al Hummel


Recommendations and Advice for Someone New to Sergent Couplers

Rick Payne
 

Hello All,

I am new to these couplers and my son wants to try them.  With my son wanting to use them and with some of the recent pictures that have been posted, I though I would give them a try.  I would like to ask the group which type of coupler I should get for Athearn Blue Box rolling stock and engines, HO.  Would it be the EC87K or should I be looking at a different one.

I am hoping to purchase them later this week or early next week.  Any and all advice for a noobie will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Rick


P.S. I think I'll have my son assemble the couplers. :)


Re: Intermountain Auto Racks?

Byron Rissetton
 

approximately 2mm or 0.0787402inches, the conversion was pretty good actually, you don't need to ream or thin the shank if you dont want to, the box cover was a little fiddly but way easier than the exactrail trincools, the blma beer car cut bar is the only part attatched to the box and is quite flexible for installing the bottom e's

Byron


Re: [SergentEng] New guy with some thoughts about couplers

John Niemeyer <jniemeyer@...>
 

Jeff
 
I use a wheel interference tester fro Crystal River Products http://www.crystalriverproducts.com/Products/Accessories/wheel_interference_tester.htm I use the HOn3 17” radius #720-117. If the clearance is good at 17” then I will have no problems on any larger radius. In some cases I use the Kadee 714 coupler pocket of even just the centering pin removed from the Accumate box.
 
John
 

Hi John,
 
Those are MTL coal cars.  I have some Grandt Line and La Belle coal car and boxcar kits, but I haven’t assembled any of them yet.
 
More info on the MTL coal car Sharon install here:
 
Dale thought I might have issues with the Accumate boxes fouling the trucks of these cars on short-radius turns.  I’ve nothing tighter than 25” on my layout at present, but I’m constructing a couple of test tracks at 18” and 15” radii to experiment with.  (My layout probably won’t ever go below 18”, but it’ll be good to have the info.)
 
Cheers,
Jeff.


Re: [SergentEng] New guy with some thoughts about couplers

Jeff Young
 

Hi John,

Those are MTL coal cars.  I have some Grandt Line and La Belle coal car and boxcar kits, but I haven’t assembled any of them yet.

More info on the MTL coal car Sharon install here:

Dale thought I might have issues with the Accumate boxes fouling the trucks of these cars on short-radius turns.  I’ve nothing tighter than 25” on my layout at present, but I’m constructing a couple of test tracks at 18” and 15” radii to experiment with.  (My layout probably won’t ever go below 18”, but it’ll be good to have the info.)

Cheers,
Jeff.


Re: [SergentEng] New guy with some thoughts about couplers

John Niemeyer <jniemeyer@...>
 

Jeff & Michael
 
That effect with the Kadee 714 coupler, I refer to is coupler bob. Very annoying. I see that with any of the split shank Kadee or Micro Trail Line “N” scale couplers that many narrow gaugers use on HOn3 and HOn30.
 
Please share more photos. If you are doing anything out of the ordinary, please share that as well.
 
Are those C&S gons Micro Train Lines or Grandt Line? Really nice weathering.
 
John Niemeyer
 
 
[Attachment(s) from Jeff Young included below]

Hi Michael,
 
I did the same as you recently, and for the same reason.
 
I’ve only installed them on 2 cars so far (a pair of Micro-Trains C&S coal cars), but that went smoothly enough.  And they certainly look more prototypical, even just sitting there.
 
 
Cheers,
Jeff.

Attachment(s) from Jeff Young | View attachments on the web

1 of 1 Photo(s)


Re: [SergentEng] New guy with some thoughts about couplers

Jeff Young
 

Hi Michael,

I did the same as you recently, and for the same reason.

I’ve only installed them on 2 cars so far (a pair of Micro-Trains C&S coal cars), but that went smoothly enough.  And they certainly look more prototypical, even just sitting there.


Cheers,
Jeff.


Re: Intermountain Auto Racks?

Cliff
 

The autos look good. Mind sharing a measurement from the "heel" portion of the coupler head to the striker?

Also I'm digging the Sergents on the BLMA beer box. Was the conversion easy? My Exactrail beer box wasn't.


New guy with some thoughts about couplers

Michael Graff
 

Hey all!
This narrow gauge thing in HOn3 can be a bit tricky at times...
I have tested some of my Kadee equipped locomotives and cars on the layout I bought last spring.
Then I experienced one thing that annoyed me. Greatly!
When running the coaches at speed they oscillate longitudinally.
Not good....

This is obviously because of the Kadee couplers construction ( # 714)?
They spring in the longitudinal direction, and the result makes it look very unrealistic.

How did I find a cure?
I bit the bullet and order a copious amount (well, almost...) of Sergent Sharon couplers!!
Both short and long ones, all inspired by the article in the 2014 HOn3 Annual.
These very scale like couplers, can they solve the oscillating issue and not only the ugly uncouplers that the Kadees have.

I have ordered assembly jigs for them too, as it should make things a bit easier.
They was not much more expensive than Kadees, so that alone speaks for Sergent.
Wish me patience!
:D


Re: Intermountain Auto Racks?

Byron Rissetton
 


Re: Intermountain Auto Racks?

Byron Rissetton
 

I'm getting some of those shortly and mu cables as well ill try and fashion them up on the auto racks and modern reefers I have to see how the look and operate

Byron


Re: [SergentEng] Re: Intermountain Auto Racks? [1 Attachment]

Nathan Rich
 

Looks good to me, only thing missing is an air hose. The PWRS guys were at one of the recent train shows I went to and I asked to see the air hoses in person but they did not have them.

Oh well.

Nathan Rich

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 7:18 AM, b.rissetton@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 
[Attachment(s) from b.rissetton@... [SergentEng] included below]



Re: Intermountain Auto Racks?

Byron Rissetton
 


Re: [SergentEng] Re: Limited Time Availability, and other random thoughts

sambear07
 

For over 20 years I worked as an Advertising Manager for a newspaper then an auction company. One day I saw a poster near my home looking for a cabinet maker; within three months of my interview I was asked to buy the company. Five years on and still I am learning much on the job.
Don C
Dalmeny, SK


Re: [SergentEng] Sharons for a MTL C&S coal car (gondola)

Jeff Young
 

A bit more info:

The reefer and coal car underframes appear to be substantially the same. Interestingly, my button herald reefer has screws attaching the draft gear boxes, whereas my block-lettered reefer has the same plastic pins as my coal cars (both button herald and block-lettered).

The more substantial difference is that the reefers have the front facings of draft gear boxes cast into the shell. This is going to foul the front lip of the Accumate boxes, pushing them lower and perhaps in turn creating more fouling issues with the trucks.

It’s possible removing the top front lip of the Accumate boxes would alleviate this.

But I’m not entirely convinced that this difference can account for the entire discrepancy between my coal car curve-tolerance estimations and Dale’s reefer curve-tolerance experiences.

Jeff.


Re: [SergentEng] Sharons for a MTL C&S coal car (gondola)

Jeff Young
 

Hi Dale,

I turned my car upside down, and the draft gear box is definitely the first thing the wheels hit. However, if I position the trucks so that the wheels are just touching the tabs sticking out of the draft gear box, the intersection of the truck centrelines is 16” - 17” away. Removing the tabs brings it down to 11” - 12”.

Now I imagine with a bit of car rocking, axle drift, etc. you can’t quite get 100% of either of those. But I’d be reasonably confident the coal cars with the stock Accumates will go down to 21” curves, and with the tabs removed even 15”.

I do have some reefers, so I’ll do one of those next and see if it really is different (or if my test methodology just doesn’t match actual experience).

Cheers,
Jeff.


Re: [SergentEng] Sharons for a MTL C&S coal car (gondola)

Jeff Young
 

Hi Dale,

I’m afraid I can’t answer your question.  Most of my curves are 25”, and the couple of places I drop down to around 20” aren't laid yet.

I might try to see if I can angle the trucks correctly on an 18” drawn circle, which should give us some info, if not a definitive answer.

Cheers,
Jeff.


Re: [SergentEng] Sharons for a MTL C&S coal car (gondola)

John Niemeyer <jniemeyer@...>
 

Dale & Jeff

You are correct on using just a sleeve to attach the Sergent coupler. I did just that and was photographed in 2011 HOn3 Annual, (article by the late Brett Payne MMR, Philip Light & me, John Niemeyer) mounted on a HOn3 N. J. International, D&RGW, flanger "OD". I did however use the "E" series coupler, as the Sharon wasn't yet available.

The sleeve that I used in the MTL 1029 coupler draft gear box, was done on a Trout Creek Engineering Swayne log car. A larger draft gear box, would not have fit the model, so I was stuck using the smallest box that I could find.

I did see that someone on Shapeways, has a "N" scale coupler pocket designed for the McHenry "N" scale coupler. With hopes, someone better that me could design an "HO" coupler pocket that would fit into the same space as a MTL draft gear box. This could be used in HOn3, HOn30 or HOn2.

The part of the 2014 article on the MTL reefer was done by Jonathan Zook or Cameron Bryers. JZ & Cameron are both on this group and maybe they could comment. Hint hint!!

John Niemeyer



Jeff, let me ask you this,

While the Accumate draft gear boxes look great and enhance the look of the cars. I found that they interfered with the truck swing on the MTL Reefers. They hung up on the backs of the wheel sets on anything less than 22" radius. Since the under frames of the gon's are different, do the Accumate boxes interfere with the truck swing on these cars?

Something else that I found. Sergent's do not need the vast amount of end swing or gathering range that Kadee 714's do! Nearly all of the end swing you need takes place at the Sergent coupler's knuckle faces (as per prototype!). So, you can put Sergent's Sharon's in a vastly narrower draft gear box. It need only be a tad wider than the Sharon couplers shank at it's widest.

Lastly you can attach Sargent's Sharon's with nothing more than a pivot pin sleeve of brass tube of proper length and diameter, a screw through that and a washer to hold the pin and coupler shank to the car. At this point I don't even need the coupler spring. With the arrangement I use, the Sergent's are in link-up range all the time!

Dale Buxton


--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 11/21/15, jeff@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:

Subject: [SergentEng] Sharons for a MTL C&S coal car (gondola)
To: SergentEng@...
Date: Saturday, November 21, 2015, 11:19 AM












The MTL HOn3 C&S coal cars seem to have a
different draft gear box than the MTL HOn3 reefers mentioned
in the Conder/Niemeyer/Zook article, so I thought I'd
share my experiences with them.

The coal cars have draft gear boxes which are
perhaps closer to the MTL N-scale boxes used on the Trout
Creek log cars: the Sharons are a very loose fit on the
posts, and the boxes (such as they are as they have no sides
at the front where the couplers emerge) are attached to the
cars with plastic pins.

I
thought about sleeving the posts as described in the HOn3
Annual article, but the draft gear boxes aren't remotely
prototypical anyway, so I decided to toss them and go with
the Accumate boxes.

The
screws supplied self-tap nicely into the plastic pin holes
(which are also in the right position), but the screws are
too long. I tapped the holes with the screws whole, and
then cut their points off. (Once the holes are tapped, the
screws thread in fine without their points.)

The Accumate draft gear boxes
also need shortening right in front of their back holes.


Other than that, it's
all pretty straight-forward.

Cheers,
Jeff.











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Posted by: Dale Buxton <the_one_tuatha_ddana@...>
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