Date   
Re: Coupler stock

Edward Sutorik
 

I think the Athearn trailer flats look more correct with the Sergent short-shank couplers.  

I am wondering at the need for a 3D printer to do investment castings.  It may be a convenience, but I don't see why it is a necessity.

I've done some investment casting.  NOT in quantity.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Simon Dunkley <simon.dunkley@...>
 

 Dale,

What model of printer was it?

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: dbtuathaddana@...
Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 22:16:02 -0700
To: sergentengineering@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sergent Engineering] Coupler stock

Rob,
Are you aware that Sergent has put his designs into the public domain? He has has said he will work with anyone who is dead serious about moving his work forward after he is done. So worry not.

I don't know the process that Frank uses to go from resin to metal. But FormLabs has a new wax baring resin that substitutes for the wax used in lost wax casting. ( i.e. investment casting) 

The cost of SLA printers keeps coming down and detail that they capture keeps going up. 

I just bought an SLA printer off Amazon yesterday for $350 US. It arrives Monday. The size is just right for my modeling needs and the detail level (which is very high) is equal to the FormLabs, Form 2 printer. I am not a maker geek by any means. But once you get the hang of 3D cad drawing. A new world of modeling possibilities opens up to you with a 3D printer.

At some point in the future, someday, SLA printers (or something better) will be as common to a modelers work bench as an X-acto knife. 

The day is coming!

Dale Buxton

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 8:34 PM roblmclear <rob.mclear@...> wrote:
What concerns me most is that the couplers may disappear from the market if Frank can't get the problems with the printer sorted out, I have over 400 freight cars so converted to Sergents but have some real concerns at the moment, it would be a real pain in the you know what to have to go back to using Kadee's after the rather large investment I have made in regards to the Sergents but at this point in time it does not look to promising, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Frank can come up with.

Regards to all.
Rob McLear.
Aussie. 

Re: Coupler stock

Rob Barker
 

Click "Instructions Etc"
Then "Click here for Instructions"
3D models are the last item in the list

Rob


On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 3:52 AM Kyle Shannon via Groups.Io <trainsr6900=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Where can one download the public domain files for the coupler designs? I thought it was on his website before but I cannot find it now. I want to see what I could do with them.

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

It's an Elegoo "MARS". It arrived a day early. So if the resin arrives on scheduled. I might have my first print 30 to 45 minutes later sometime Monday.

Dale

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:03 PM Simon Dunkley <simon.dunkley@...> wrote:
 Dale,

What model of printer was it?

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: dbtuathaddana@...
Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 22:16:02 -0700
To: sergentengineering@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sergent Engineering] Coupler stock

Rob,
Are you aware that Sergent has put his designs into the public domain? He has has said he will work with anyone who is dead serious about moving his work forward after he is done. So worry not.

I don't know the process that Frank uses to go from resin to metal. But FormLabs has a new wax baring resin that substitutes for the wax used in lost wax casting. ( i.e. investment casting) 

The cost of SLA printers keeps coming down and detail that they capture keeps going up. 

I just bought an SLA printer off Amazon yesterday for $350 US. It arrives Monday. The size is just right for my modeling needs and the detail level (which is very high) is equal to the FormLabs, Form 2 printer. I am not a maker geek by any means. But once you get the hang of 3D cad drawing. A new world of modeling possibilities opens up to you with a 3D printer.

At some point in the future, someday, SLA printers (or something better) will be as common to a modelers work bench as an X-acto knife. 

The day is coming!

Dale Buxton

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 8:34 PM roblmclear <rob.mclear@...> wrote:
What concerns me most is that the couplers may disappear from the market if Frank can't get the problems with the printer sorted out, I have over 400 freight cars so converted to Sergents but have some real concerns at the moment, it would be a real pain in the you know what to have to go back to using Kadee's after the rather large investment I have made in regards to the Sergents but at this point in time it does not look to promising, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Frank can come up with.

Regards to all.
Rob McLear.
Aussie. 

Re: Coupler stock

Mike Conder
 

A photo cure printer for that price?  Very cool!

Are you going to try your coupler pockets on it?

Mike Conder


On Sun, Dec 9, 2018, 11:09 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@... wrote:
It's an Elegoo "MARS". It arrived a day early. So if the resin arrives on scheduled. I might have my first print 30 to 45 minutes later sometime Monday.

Dale

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:03 PM Simon Dunkley <simon.dunkley@...> wrote:
 Dale,

What model of printer was it?

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: dbtuathaddana@...
Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 22:16:02 -0700
To: sergentengineering@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sergent Engineering] Coupler stock

Rob,
Are you aware that Sergent has put his designs into the public domain? He has has said he will work with anyone who is dead serious about moving his work forward after he is done. So worry not.

I don't know the process that Frank uses to go from resin to metal. But FormLabs has a new wax baring resin that substitutes for the wax used in lost wax casting. ( i.e. investment casting) 

The cost of SLA printers keeps coming down and detail that they capture keeps going up. 

I just bought an SLA printer off Amazon yesterday for $350 US. It arrives Monday. The size is just right for my modeling needs and the detail level (which is very high) is equal to the FormLabs, Form 2 printer. I am not a maker geek by any means. But once you get the hang of 3D cad drawing. A new world of modeling possibilities opens up to you with a 3D printer.

At some point in the future, someday, SLA printers (or something better) will be as common to a modelers work bench as an X-acto knife. 

The day is coming!

Dale Buxton

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 8:34 PM roblmclear <rob.mclear@...> wrote:
What concerns me most is that the couplers may disappear from the market if Frank can't get the problems with the printer sorted out, I have over 400 freight cars so converted to Sergents but have some real concerns at the moment, it would be a real pain in the you know what to have to go back to using Kadee's after the rather large investment I have made in regards to the Sergents but at this point in time it does not look to promising, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Frank can come up with.

Regards to all.
Rob McLear.
Aussie. 

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

Yes, Those and some other things I've drawn. My hope is that I can print a 30ft freight car in the resin tank in one or two parts. All projects will far better detail than what Shapeways offers.

Dale

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 11:53 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
A photo cure printer for that price?  Very cool!

Are you going to try your coupler pockets on it?

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018, 11:09 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@... wrote:
It's an Elegoo "MARS". It arrived a day early. So if the resin arrives on scheduled. I might have my first print 30 to 45 minutes later sometime Monday.

Dale

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:03 PM Simon Dunkley <simon.dunkley@...> wrote:
 Dale,

What model of printer was it?

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: dbtuathaddana@...
Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 22:16:02 -0700
To: sergentengineering@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sergent Engineering] Coupler stock

Rob,
Are you aware that Sergent has put his designs into the public domain? He has has said he will work with anyone who is dead serious about moving his work forward after he is done. So worry not.

I don't know the process that Frank uses to go from resin to metal. But FormLabs has a new wax baring resin that substitutes for the wax used in lost wax casting. ( i.e. investment casting) 

The cost of SLA printers keeps coming down and detail that they capture keeps going up. 

I just bought an SLA printer off Amazon yesterday for $350 US. It arrives Monday. The size is just right for my modeling needs and the detail level (which is very high) is equal to the FormLabs, Form 2 printer. I am not a maker geek by any means. But once you get the hang of 3D cad drawing. A new world of modeling possibilities opens up to you with a 3D printer.

At some point in the future, someday, SLA printers (or something better) will be as common to a modelers work bench as an X-acto knife. 

The day is coming!

Dale Buxton

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 8:34 PM roblmclear <rob.mclear@...> wrote:
What concerns me most is that the couplers may disappear from the market if Frank can't get the problems with the printer sorted out, I have over 400 freight cars so converted to Sergents but have some real concerns at the moment, it would be a real pain in the you know what to have to go back to using Kadee's after the rather large investment I have made in regards to the Sergents but at this point in time it does not look to promising, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Frank can come up with.

Regards to all.
Rob McLear.
Aussie. 

Re: Coupler stock

Simon Dunkley <simon.dunkley@...>
 

Thanks.
Very cool.

Simon



On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 7:04 AM +0000, "Dale Buxton" <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:

Yes, Those and some other things I've drawn. My hope is that I can print a 30ft freight car in the resin tank in one or two parts. All projects will far better detail than what Shapeways offers.

Dale

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 11:53 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
A photo cure printer for that price?  Very cool!

Are you going to try your coupler pockets on it?

Mike Conder

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018, 11:09 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@... wrote:
It's an Elegoo "MARS". It arrived a day early. So if the resin arrives on scheduled. I might have my first print 30 to 45 minutes later sometime Monday.

Dale

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:03 PM Simon Dunkley <simon.dunkley@...> wrote:
 Dale,

What model of printer was it?

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: dbtuathaddana@...
Sent: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 22:16:02 -0700
To: sergentengineering@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Sergent Engineering] Coupler stock

Rob,
Are you aware that Sergent has put his designs into the public domain? He has has said he will work with anyone who is dead serious about moving his work forward after he is done. So worry not.

I don't know the process that Frank uses to go from resin to metal. But FormLabs has a new wax baring resin that substitutes for the wax used in lost wax casting. ( i.e. investment casting) 

The cost of SLA printers keeps coming down and detail that they capture keeps going up. 

I just bought an SLA printer off Amazon yesterday for $350 US. It arrives Monday. The size is just right for my modeling needs and the detail level (which is very high) is equal to the FormLabs, Form 2 printer. I am not a maker geek by any means. But once you get the hang of 3D cad drawing. A new world of modeling possibilities opens up to you with a 3D printer.

At some point in the future, someday, SLA printers (or something better) will be as common to a modelers work bench as an X-acto knife. 

The day is coming!

Dale Buxton

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 8:34 PM roblmclear <rob.mclear@...> wrote:
What concerns me most is that the couplers may disappear from the market if Frank can't get the problems with the printer sorted out, I have over 400 freight cars so converted to Sergents but have some real concerns at the moment, it would be a real pain in the you know what to have to go back to using Kadee's after the rather large investment I have made in regards to the Sergents but at this point in time it does not look to promising, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Frank can come up with.

Regards to all.
Rob McLear.
Aussie. 

Re: Not a Robot, and S Scale questions

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 

I never did answer this so here ya are.

To get a 3/4 coupler in "S" just use the H0.  At 73%  it is really close.
To backdate to a type D check the FAQ. <http://www.sergentengineering.com/FAQFuture.htm>
The H0 Sharon should be good as is.

The Type D was adopted in 1919.  As you do 1907 the Sharon should do ya.
--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...

Re: Coupler stock

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 

Dale;
Where might one find your stuff on the overgrown web??
TCC:}
--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...

Re: Coupler stock

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 

Ed;
The 3D print is used rather than a wax.  From there proceed as normal.
TCC:}

--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

TC
I only have one 3D modeled item on the internet. It's a coupler box for Sergent Sharron Couplers that uses a coil spring to center the coupler from the outside rear of the coupler shank. It's at the Shapeways Stores in my shop called "Lima Shops"

Dale Buxton

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 9:41 AM Talmadge C 'TC' Carr <group_list@...> wrote:
Dale;
Where might one find your stuff on the overgrown web??
TCC:}
--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Hn42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest

Re: Coupler stock

Edward Sutorik
 

I understand how using the 3D printer works.  I just don't see how it's a necessity for producing investment cast coupler parts.  There IS the old way.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Jamison Amis
 

Ed,

I'd think that doing the castings "the old way" would likely lead to a greater possibility of yielding parts with notable deviation in dimensional tolerances, which could create serious operational reliability issues when you're talking about a precision miniature mechanism like a Sergent coupler.

A 3D Printer should permit tighter tolerances to be achieved on a much more consistent basis, nevermind that it would reduce the workload needed to make each individual piece.



Jamison Amis


On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 3:48 PM Edward Sutorik via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik=aol.com@groups.io wrote:
I understand how using the 3D printer works.  I just don't see how it's a necessity for producing investment cast coupler parts.  There IS the old way.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

The old way is also the vastly more expensive and time consuming method too. Unless you have the injection molding equipment in house. Every mold modification needs to be tested in an injection molding machine before production can even start to begin.

So, there’s that.

Dale Buxton

Re: Coupler stock

Edward Sutorik
 

Investment casting doesn't use injection molding equipment.

Reading this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_casting

there is a comment:  "In recent years the production of patterns using 3D printing has become popular...in which case one goes directly to step 5."  From step 1.  So, Steps 2, 3, and 4 can be skipped.  What the 3D element does is make it quite a bit easier to produce the wax patterns.  However, Cal Scale was making wonderful investment castings YEARS ago without 3D printing.  And Kemtron before them.

I believe the earlier investment cast Sergent parts were done using steps 2-3-4.  And I believe that Frank is either getting very tired of dealing with steps 2-3-4, and/or he's yearning to cut the costs of using steps 2-3-4.

Since 3D printing is mentioned in the article, it has obviously been in substantial usage.  So it's not like Frank is going where no one has gone before.  But there might very well be start-up expenses.  And start-up mistakes.  But I doubt that it's anywhere near impossible.  Maybe just too expensive.  Or irritating.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Andrew
 

Ed,

Read Frank’s reply on Dec 7.  He was using an Evisiontec printer before.  That printer is no longer operational, and I gather by Frank’s comments they aren’t the most pleasant group to deal with.

Andrew




On Monday, December 10, 2018, 8:19 PM, Edward Sutorik via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

Investment casting doesn't use injection molding equipment.

Reading this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_casting

there is a comment:  "In recent years the production of patterns using 3D printing has become popular...in which case one goes directly to step 5."  From step 1.  So, Steps 2, 3, and 4 can be skipped.  What the 3D element does is make it quite a bit easier to produce the wax patterns.  However, Cal Scale was making wonderful investment castings YEARS ago without 3D printing.  And Kemtron before them.

I believe the earlier investment cast Sergent parts were done using steps 2-3-4.  And I believe that Frank is either getting very tired of dealing with steps 2-3-4, and/or he's yearning to cut the costs of using steps 2-3-4.

Since 3D printing is mentioned in the article, it has obviously been in substantial usage.  So it's not like Frank is going where no one has gone before.  But there might very well be start-up expenses.  And start-up mistakes.  But I doubt that it's anywhere near impossible.  Maybe just too expensive.  Or irritating.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Mark
 

I would think that a really great outcome of the performance algorithm may very well be having both cv3 and4 set to zero.  That is have no inherent momentum settings on board.  In stead if we take EVERYTHING that impacts momentum as a calculation then we could make every engine controlled with the throttle act properly all the time.  It has the added benefit that if we have modeller using software application like for example traincontroller there is not going to be an issues.  Traincontroller itself works out all those momentum type of details and by default requires cv3/4 be set to zero.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 at 11:42, Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
The old way is also the vastly more expensive and time consuming method too. Unless you have the injection molding equipment in house. Every mold modification needs to be tested in an injection molding machine before production can even start to begin.

So, there’s that.

Dale Buxton

Re: Coupler stock

Edward Sutorik
 

Andrew,

Thanks for pointing that out.  I missed it.  So he needs a new printer.  And doesn't like the folks who made the old one.  Sounds so familiar--I bought a Canon iPf 5100.  Ink jet, not 3D.

I surely hope this problem gets worked out.  So much is dead in the water, here.  I had to go back to making my #20 rail-bound frogs.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

I was talking about Franks Die-cast couplers and not the printed ones. But my read in the internet has told me that wax printing machines for jewelry and dentistry have bee around for something lke 30 plus years now. 

Dale Buxton

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:42 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
The old way is also the vastly more expensive and time consuming method too. Unless you have the injection molding equipment in house. Every mold modification needs to be tested in an injection molding machine before production can even start to begin.

So, there’s that.

Dale Buxton

Re: Coupler stock

Dale Buxton
 

Oh Investment casting certainly can and does use injection molded waxes! Look at these examples. The youtube vid is pretty self explanatory.



https://www.milwaukeeprec.com/investment-castings.html?pmc=BC 1&_vsrefdom=ppcbing&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=iso%20%2Bcastings&utm_campaign=Investment%20Casting&utm_content=Iso%20Investment%20Casting

Dale Buxton

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:19 PM Edward Sutorik via Groups.Io <Edwardsutorik=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Investment casting doesn't use injection molding equipment.

Reading this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment_casting

there is a comment:  "In recent years the production of patterns using 3D printing has become popular...in which case one goes directly to step 5."  From step 1.  So, Steps 2, 3, and 4 can be skipped.  What the 3D element does is make it quite a bit easier to produce the wax patterns.  However, Cal Scale was making wonderful investment castings YEARS ago without 3D printing.  And Kemtron before them.

I believe the earlier investment cast Sergent parts were done using steps 2-3-4.  And I believe that Frank is either getting very tired of dealing with steps 2-3-4, and/or he's yearning to cut the costs of using steps 2-3-4.

Since 3D printing is mentioned in the article, it has obviously been in substantial usage.  So it's not like Frank is going where no one has gone before.  But there might very well be start-up expenses.  And start-up mistakes.  But I doubt that it's anywhere near impossible.  Maybe just too expensive.  Or irritating.


Ed

Edward Sutorik