Date   

Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

jzook@...
 

Guys,

With regards to this new draft gear box being compatible with Sharon couplers, as long as this replaces the Accumate #1031 draft gear box, it will work for Sharons.  From my understanding, the #1031 draft gear box is the only one Sergents has been using for their HO scale couplers.

Duncan, I'm planning to buy a few sets to test them out.  I can discuss on the side with you and the club to share my feedback.

Jon


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Mark Lewis
 

John:

Now that, is a fair offer.

Mark Lewis


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
 

Dale, Dale, Dale...


Don't struggle so much... nobody here that I know of is stressing over having auto-centering.  Jim and I just know and understand that there are many people (in both HO and S) who WANT it (to ensure perfect coupler alignment on straight track where they).  In case you didn't know it, most of us who WANT auto-centering are likely keen on an older common practice that was preached by well-known layout designers as a fail-safe practice to combat failed re-coupling attempts in the earlier years of our hobby... which was that layouts should be designed so that ALL uncoupling points are located on STRAIGHT track segments so that RE-coupling issue, which even Kadee couplers suffer/suffered from, would diminish or disappear.  So... we incorporated the auto-centering OPTION into our new box for those who know and practice this old rule.


That's all there is to it... and surely you can see the wisdom in this.  But... if you don't want auto centering... just omit the spring that does it when you assemble your gear boxes.  It just can't get any more simple than that.  And both 'camps' should be happy.



John D

'Camp' 1 : Those who WANT auto-centering

'Camp' 2 : Those who DON'T want auto-centering


On January 13, 2018 at 6:36 PM "Dale Buxton the_one_tuatha_ddana@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 
 

People, people, people,

I am struggling to figure out why it is so paramount to have a special self-centering coupler box for the Sergent RNB87K Sharon coupler. Am I missing something here?

As already discussed, the preferred method of coupling Sergent and prototype couplers is to open both opposing cars coupler knuckles and bringing the couplers together. This method gives the couplers their maximum gathering range for a mate-up.

Virtually all of the HOn3 plastic, rolling equipment, kits and RTR on the market today have a clone of the Kadee 714 coupler box molded into the body of the cars. This coupler box can be QUITE EASILY modified to accept the Sergent RNB87K with a centering spring as per the Smoky Mountain design. Just a few bits of plastic are needed to keep the spring in place.

This modification is far easier and less catastrophic than removing the entire 714 clone coupler box from the car and then installing a new one!

One other point that needs to be mentioned here: The Accumate Coupler box was completely unacceptable for use on HOn3 equipment. Period! The boxes width was so wide the HOn3 wheel sets inner wheel rims, riding under the box would hang up on the sides of the box on any track radius under 22 inches. I know this because I tested this extensively!

The bottom of a Kadee 714 coupler box is just a tiny bit wider then the Sergent RNB87K's pivot area of the draft gear shank. Plus, this part of the coupler box has the pivot pin molded on it. Coupler box/truck pivot problem with Sergent couplers solved.

You can also avoid the whole coupler box dilemma altogether in one of two ways. The pivot opening on the RNB86K coupler is roughly 3/32's in diameter. So, you can clip the Kadee 714 pivot pin with some of the boxes floor off of the Kadee coupler box and use this to mount the coupler with a screw. Or, you can make your own pivot pin with a short length of 3/32 brass tube and washer with a screw through them to affix the coupler to the car.

Either way, these options are far easier than hacking the molded coupler boxes off of the car and replacing them with a new one.

On scratch built HOn3 cars, If you widen the inner width of the draft gear area, the Sergent RNB87K's can be mounted between the center sills with one of the above two methods. Again, you could make up a centering spring arrangement here as per the Smoky Mountain design if you so desire.

Dale Buxton 


On Saturday, January 13, 2018, 2:40:19 PM MST, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 

 

I totally agree, need a similar product for the Sharons.  The new pocket is great for the larger couplers, just need one for us narrow gaugers and ToC modelers.

Mike Conder
 


 


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
 

Duncan (and all),


Concerning Sergent's Sharon coupler... the narrow shank versions (RNC87K and RNB87K)... I just took another look at them on their site, and their shanks appear to be identical to the shank this new draft gear box is designed for.  So I see no reason this box won't work for the narrow gauge market as well since the rear of the shank is the only real determining factor.


Buy a set and try it... if it doesn't work, I, personally, will buy it back form you.



John D

.

On January 13, 2018 at 3:37 PM "duncan harvey train3guy@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

John D,

    I also misunderstood your first comment.   Your second explanation
is clearer and, with Mark, I agree with it.  But, HO narrow gauge is a
big market compared to all the other narrow gauge markets, even when
they are combined.  It is still a small niche, but it is the largest of
the narrow gauge markets. Therefore, I think an HOn3 self centering
coupler pocket for the Sergents would be a good market.  Although no
where as big as the HO market.  I hope something can be done in this
area to improve the sale-ability of the Sharon couplers to the HOn3
modelers.

                Duncan


 


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Mike Conder
 

Cool, thanks, hope it comes soon!

Mike Conder

On Jan 13, 2018 4:28 PM, "jimking3@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

I'm working on a "wide body" HO box to accommodate Kadee "whisker" and related-size Sergent.  After that, I'll look into an HOn3 box.

Jim King
SMMW


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Dale Buxton
 


People, people, people,

I am struggling to figure out why it is so paramount to have a special self-centering coupler box for the Sergent RNB87K Sharon coupler. Am I missing something here?

As already discussed, the preferred method of coupling Sergent and prototype couplers is to open both opposing cars coupler knuckles and bringing the couplers together. This method gives the couplers their maximum gathering range for a mate-up.

Virtually all of the HOn3 plastic, rolling equipment, kits and RTR on the market today have a clone of the Kadee 714 coupler box molded into the body of the cars. This coupler box can be QUITE EASILY modified to accept the Sergent RNB87K with a centering spring as per the Smoky Mountain design. Just a few bits of plastic are needed to keep the spring in place.

This modification is far easier and less catastrophic than removing the entire 714 clone coupler box from the car and then installing a new one!

One other point that needs to be mentioned here: The Accumate Coupler box was completely unacceptable for use on HOn3 equipment. Period! The boxes width was so wide the HOn3 wheel sets inner wheel rims, riding under the box would hang up on the sides of the box on any track radius under 22 inches. I know this because I tested this extensively!

The bottom of a Kadee 714 coupler box is just a tiny bit wider then the Sergent RNB87K's pivot area of the draft gear shank. Plus, this part of the coupler box has the pivot pin molded on it. Coupler box/truck pivot problem with Sergent couplers solved.

You can also avoid the whole coupler box dilemma altogether in one of two ways. The pivot opening on the RNB86K coupler is roughly 3/32's in diameter. So, you can clip the Kadee 714 pivot pin with some of the boxes floor off of the Kadee coupler box and use this to mount the coupler with a screw. Or, you can make your own pivot pin with a short length of 3/32 brass tube and washer with a screw through them to affix the coupler to the car.

Either way, these options are far easier than hacking the molded coupler boxes off of the car and replacing them with a new one.

On scratch built HOn3 cars, If you widen the inner width of the draft gear area, the Sergent RNB87K's can be mounted between the center sills with one of the above two methods. Again, you could make up a centering spring arrangement here as per the Smoky Mountain design if you so desire.

Dale Buxton 


On Saturday, January 13, 2018, 2:40:19 PM MST, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:


 

I totally agree, need a similar product for the Sharons.  The new pocket is great for the larger couplers, just need one for us narrow gaugers and ToC modelers.

Mike Conder


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Jim King
 

I'm working on a "wide body" HO box to accommodate Kadee "whisker" and related-size Sergent.  After that, I'll look into an HOn3 box.

Jim King
SMMW


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Mike Conder
 

I totally agree, need a similar product for the Sharons.  The new pocket is great for the larger couplers, just need one for us narrow gaugers and ToC modelers.

Mike Conder


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Duncan Harvey
 

John D,

    I also misunderstood your first comment.   Your second explanation is clearer and, with Mark, I agree with it.  But, HO narrow gauge is a big market compared to all the other narrow gauge markets, even when they are combined.  It is still a small niche, but it is the largest of the narrow gauge markets. Therefore, I think an HOn3 self centering coupler pocket for the Sergents would be a good market.  Although no where as big as the HO market.  I hope something can be done in this area to improve the sale-ability of the Sharon couplers to the HOn3 modelers.

                Duncan


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Mark Lewis
 

John:

Now that is a different explanation I agree with.

Mark


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
 

Mark,


No... you misunderstand my comment.  Maybe my wording wasn't clear... but what I'm saying is this - narrow gauge is more popular than standard gauge in S scale... which isn't the case in HO where standard gauge is more popular than narrow.  My comment isn't a comparison of the scales... it's a comparison of the gauges in each scale.



John D


On January 12, 2018 at 11:05 PM "Mark Lewis narrowrails12@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 
John D.:

Narrow gauge is more popular in S scale than in HO scale?

I doubt that,  as there are more HON3 modelers than all narrow gauges of S scale combined. 

A HOn3 version of the new draft gear box would be a very welcome addition, for HOn3 modelers using or wanting to use Sergent HOn3 couplers.

Mark Lewis


 


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Mark Lewis
 

John D.:

Narrow gauge is more popular in S scale than in HO scale?

I doubt that,  as there are more HON3 modelers than all narrow gauges of S scale combined. 

A HOn3 version of the new draft gear box would be a very welcome addition, for HOn3 modelers using or wanting to use Sergent HOn3 couplers.

Mark Lewis


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
 

Interesting idea, Jim... but likely one that would go over better in S scale since narrow gauge seems to be more prevalent in S than in HO.  I recall Frank Sergent suggesting to me a few years back before releasing his new S scale coupler that he thought a smaller-scale "SHARON" coupler might go over better in S than the standard E coupler (due to S' larger narrow gauge market).  And your Steam Pilot draft gear box would have made a perfect companion for an S scale Sharon coupler had he done it.



John D


On January 12, 2018 at 8:37 PM "'Jim King' jimking3@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 

Only the HO standard gauge box is available now.  I’ve not been asked to look into an HOn3 box nor do I know what market potential there is.

 

Jim King

(828) 777-5619

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


 


Re: [SergentEng] Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

George
 

Looks like I sent it to the wrong address. I’ll see if I can correct it.

George Sebastian-Coleman
11 Taine Mountain Rd.
Unionville, CT 06085



On Jan 12, 2018, at 8:37 PM, 'Jim King' jimking3@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:


Only the HO standard gauge box is available now.  I’ve not been asked to look into an HOn3 box nor do I know what market potential there is.

 

Jim King

(828) 777-5619

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 




Re: New HO narrow coupler box now available

Jim King
 

Only the HO standard gauge box is available now.  I’ve not been asked to look into an HOn3 box nor do I know what market potential there is.

 

Jim King

(828) 777-5619

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: [SergentEng] New HO narrow coupler box now available

Duncan Harvey
 

Jim,

��� Do you have coupler boxes with the centering spring feature available for HO narrow gauge couplers?� If so, that may make it so I can begin thinking about switching my fleet of equipment over.� I tried the Sergents without the centering spring and for HOn3 they are just not practical.� The centering feature is needed for those places where you can't see, or reach, to get a car coupled - in a cut, behind a mill, in a mine, behind a warehouse and so on.� Several places on our portable layout have difficult to reach places and the Kadees do a better job with their centering ability.� Please let� me know if such a feature is available for the Sharron style, narrow gauge coupler.� Thanks!

��� ��� ��� ��� ��� ��� ��� ��� ��� ��� Duncan Harvey


New HO narrow coupler box now available

Jim King
 

I now have HO coupler boxes to fit narrow shank Sergent ENC87K couplers.  The big improvement over the hard-to-find #1020 Accurail parts is a coupler self-centering option.  Added features are rivet details on the box, rivets/gussets on the lid and available in tinted brown, black and grey urethane to provide a great “weathering base”.  These are in-production and ready for your order!

 

Go here to view details:  http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO_&_S_draft_gear+cplrs.html

 

Contact me off-list to place an order, ask questions, etc.  I will reply with an invoice and ship your order within 3 business days from receipt of payment.

 

Jim King

(828) 777-5619

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: [SergentEng] Type SF coupler availability

Tim L
 

You'll probably be waiting for as long as I will be for the RailFlyer type to be made available again, or the extended shank type F to be done; which probably means several more years.

In all honesty, it probably better to just email Frank and see if you get a reply.

Tim
Land of OZ

On 04/01/2018 14:04, Ryan Harris ryan.harris@sbcglobal.net [SergentEng] wrote:
Does anyone know when the SF couplers will be available again? I only have one car that needs them, so I'm not in a big rush. I don't anticipate acquiring many more cars from the window in the 70s when they were required, but it would be nice to have the correct couplers at some point.
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth TX


Re: [SergentEng] New coupler boxes coming soon

 

Sort of like having auto reversing headlights on our models. It's been around so long most modelers think the real ones do it - NOT!
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA

On Jan 3, 2018 8:14 PM, "John Degnan Scaler164@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

WITHOUT centering is definitely the correct way... but there are many modelers who have been spoiled by the auto-centering feature Kadee introduced, and now demand it... with many aging modelers likely needing it due to diminishing handling capabilities.  The funny thing is - the design of Kadee couplers, with their larger "gathering range," makes them LESS needy of a centering spring than Sergent couplers are (for those who want auto-centering)... yet here we are in our backwards little world.  Kadee's excessively wide draft gear boxes (although I'm sure they serve their purpose in some cases (like on small layouts with tight curves)) have also spoiled many beautiful models by being just that - too wide and just plain GAUDY!


I developed both the centering option AND my soon-to-come (in S scale) narrow draft gear boxes to deal with both of these issues because of comments I heard from those who lurk in S scale... how they didn't like Sergent couplers because they didn't auto-center... AND... how they didn't come with their own draft gear boxes.  So... I developed both for S scale... because the options were in demand... and to possibly help Sergent sell more couplers in S scale (to those who want auto-centering).  Now everyone can be as happy as they want to be.  To each his own... now, even in HO.



John D

Scaler164@...



On January 3, 2018 at 6:25 PM "Scott Walton jscottwalton@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 
I'm glad to see that it's optional. I've worked as a brakeman on a couple of tourist lines so I've coupled and uncoupled the real thing. Part of the routine there is to bring the train to a stop about 3 feet short of the the cars. Then open one or both of the knuckles and line up the couplers so that they mate. One of the things I like about the Sergents is that that is the way they work. So I'll leave out the centering spring (But I'm pretty sure that I will be ordering several of these coupler boxes).

Scott

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 6:10 PM, John Degnan Scaler164@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

 

Scott (and all),


The self centering feature is an OPTION with this draft gear box.  You choose whether or not you want to use it.  If not, simply omit the spring.


It may do away with the ability to couple on curves, but it should guarantee coupling on straights.  But what is one to do in the case of coupling on a curved siding when having just uncoupled from a train on a straight main?  One way or another, there's no foolproof solution for this issue.  Centering or non-centering - it doesn't matter... there will always be a situation where NEITHER work!



John Degnan

Scaler164@...



On January 3, 2018 at 3:59 PM "Scott Walton jscottwalton@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 
Your web page mentions "self-centering".. If this means that the coupler automatically returns to the center position, doesn't this do away with one of Sergent;s advantages: the ability to couple on a curve?

Scott Walton

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 2:48 PM, 'Jim King' jimking3@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

 

In early December, I mentioned that I was designing a new coupler box to replace the hard-to-find Accurail box with the added treat of self-centering.  The design cycle was completed just before Christmas and patterns ordered.  If they are “on time”, I should receive them by next Monday.  Once I make the first rubber mold and some test castings, they will be announced as “in production/ready to sell” (assuming no design/pattern changes are required).  These parts will remain in-stock indefinitely so you won’t have to worry about “needing and not having” for future projects.

 

Stay tuned …

 

Jim King

(828) 777-5619

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 

 

 



--
Scott Walton


 

 

 



--
Scott Walton


 


Re: [SergentEng] New coupler boxes coming soon

John Degnan <Scaler164@...>
 

WITHOUT centering is definitely the correct way... but there are many modelers who have been spoiled by the auto-centering feature Kadee introduced, and now demand it... with many aging modelers likely needing it due to diminishing handling capabilities.  The funny thing is - the design of Kadee couplers, with their larger "gathering range," makes them LESS needy of a centering spring than Sergent couplers are (for those who want auto-centering)... yet here we are in our backwards little world.  Kadee's excessively wide draft gear boxes (although I'm sure they serve their purpose in some cases (like on small layouts with tight curves)) have also spoiled many beautiful models by being just that - too wide and just plain GAUDY!


I developed both the centering option AND my soon-to-come (in S scale) narrow draft gear boxes to deal with both of these issues because of comments I heard from those who lurk in S scale... how they didn't like Sergent couplers because they didn't auto-center... AND... how they didn't come with their own draft gear boxes.  So... I developed both for S scale... because the options were in demand... and to possibly help Sergent sell more couplers in S scale (to those who want auto-centering).  Now everyone can be as happy as they want to be.  To each his own... now, even in HO.



John D

Scaler164@...



On January 3, 2018 at 6:25 PM "Scott Walton jscottwalton@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 
I'm glad to see that it's optional. I've worked as a brakeman on a couple of tourist lines so I've coupled and uncoupled the real thing. Part of the routine there is to bring the train to a stop about 3 feet short of the the cars. Then open one or both of the knuckles and line up the couplers so that they mate. One of the things I like about the Sergents is that that is the way they work. So I'll leave out the centering spring (But I'm pretty sure that I will be ordering several of these coupler boxes).

Scott

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 6:10 PM, John Degnan Scaler164@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

 

Scott (and all),


The self centering feature is an OPTION with this draft gear box.  You choose whether or not you want to use it.  If not, simply omit the spring.


It may do away with the ability to couple on curves, but it should guarantee coupling on straights.  But what is one to do in the case of coupling on a curved siding when having just uncoupled from a train on a straight main?  One way or another, there's no foolproof solution for this issue.  Centering or non-centering - it doesn't matter... there will always be a situation where NEITHER work!



John Degnan

Scaler164@...



On January 3, 2018 at 3:59 PM "Scott Walton jscottwalton@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:

 
Your web page mentions "self-centering".. If this means that the coupler automatically returns to the center position, doesn't this do away with one of Sergent;s advantages: the ability to couple on a curve?

Scott Walton

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 2:48 PM, 'Jim King' jimking3@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

 

In early December, I mentioned that I was designing a new coupler box to replace the hard-to-find Accurail box with the added treat of self-centering.  The design cycle was completed just before Christmas and patterns ordered.  If they are “on time”, I should receive them by next Monday.  Once I make the first rubber mold and some test castings, they will be announced as “in production/ready to sell” (assuming no design/pattern changes are required).  These parts will remain in-stock indefinitely so you won’t have to worry about “needing and not having” for future projects.

 

Stay tuned …

 

Jim King

(828) 777-5619

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 

 

 



--
Scott Walton


 

 

 



--
Scott Walton


 

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