Date   

Re: [SergentEng] Coupler finish/color

Andrew
 

I use Apple Barrel Nutmeg brown craft paint.  I paint the upper (large) piece prior to assembly.   I usually paint all of the uppers in a bag at once, and segregate them into a separate bag.  The lower pieces get painted after assembly.  I use the same size brush (I think its a 00) as for figure painting.  I typically dont bother to paint the knuckle, but if I do, I use the same size brush and paint (after assembly).  

Because apple barrel is water based, you can remove it if it interferes with operation.

Andrew

On Thursday, November 9, 2017, 10:53:47 PM EST, radiodial@... [SergentEng] wrote:


 

Yikes, after finally going through the last of my 2 packs of 96 couplers (EN87 & EC87) , I got a new order today, and instead of the nice smooth realistic brown finish, they are rough and a grayish black. Guess I've been living under a rock. I don't want to try and paint these as that would be the fastest way to foul up their smooth flawless operation I've come to enjoy.  Anyone found a "Blacken It" (Brown It?) type of solution to throw these into?

I tried the sucky Yahoo search of conversations but could only find out why the change (Hexavalent Chromium), but no evident solution.  Really, if this was the finish 15 years ago when I made the switch, I probably wouldn't have went the Sergent route.

Thx,

RJ Dial

Burlingame, CA


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler finish/color

Tim L
 

There is indeed a painting section on the Sergent website. I can't give
an exact link as Franks website is so old it still uses frames however
the painting guide is in the instructions area.

Franks recommends in his guide Rust-o-leum Rusty Metal Primer.
Unfortunately not available where I am so I'm still searching for a good
substitute.

I paint mine using the same basic method but using an airbrush and
securing the parts on upside down masking tape so there is no chance of
them blowing away.

Tim
Land of OZ

On 10/11/2017 15:33, Mike Conder vulturenest1@... [SergentEng] wrote:
Actually, painting them is the normal way to finish these.  I think the info is on the web site but it is also on an article in the HOn3 Annual a few years back.  I know that because I helped write the article!  But sadly I don't have it at hand and can't remember the exact paint, though I think it may have been Krylon primer.
Mike Conder


Re: Coupler finish/color

Mike Conder
 

Actually, painting them is the normal way to finish these.  I think the info is on the web site but it is also on an article in the HOn3 Annual a few years back.  I know that because I helped write the article!  But sadly I don't have it at hand and can't remember the exact paint, though I think it may have been Krylon primer.

Mike Conder


Coupler finish/color

RJ Dial
 

Yikes, after finally going through the last of my 2 packs of 96 couplers (EN87 & EC87) , I got a new order today, and instead of the nice smooth realistic brown finish, they are rough and a grayish black. Guess I've been living under a rock. I don't want to try and paint these as that would be the fastest way to foul up their smooth flawless operation I've come to enjoy.  Anyone found a "Blacken It" (Brown It?) type of solution to throw these into?

I tried the sucky Yahoo search of conversations but could only find out why the change (Hexavalent Chromium), but no evident solution.  Really, if this was the finish 15 years ago when I made the switch, I probably wouldn't have went the Sergent route.

Thx,

RJ Dial

Burlingame, CA


Atlas F89J flat cars

Andrew
 

Hello all,

Have any of you converted the Atlas (previously BLMA) F89J flatcars to Sergent Couplers?  If so what did you use.  They come from the factory with Kadee scale long shank couplers.  These will typically be run on 36" nominal radius curves.  

Andrew


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Edward Sutorik
 

Update:

I assembled 11 more couplers.  All worked fine.  I had what I consider are a couple of assembly insights, and did things a little differently.

I decided to disassemble ole number 1 myself 'cause now I'm a x-pert!

I did notice that #1 had a wee bit of vertical play on the knuckle.  Not much, maybe a couple of thou.  But noticeably more than all the others.

When I opened 'er up, I found a wee bit of flash at the edge of the lower "ball catching" hole.  Whether that was the problem or not, the flash had to go.  So it went.  That particular flash cleaning is, by the way, a part of my new assembly method; as there was flash in that location on some of the other couplers.

I reassembled the coupler and the primary problem was gone.  So was the vertical play.  The knuckle now closes when it's s'posed to.

It was still a little funny, though, in that the knuckle now wasn't enthusiastic for opening.  Using a magnet, it would work.  But the upside down trick didn't.  I put a little graphite inside.  Wiggled things around.  Removed most of the graphite.  Coupler's now happy.

So it looks like Frank won't be getting my coupler to examine.  But he WILL be getting an order in awhile.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Tim L
 

Good to see Frank make an appearance. I tried emailing a few times
yonks ago without any reply.

Just something else to check if you haven't already is to see if the
tang on the bottom half is bent. I had this same ball locking trouble a
couple of times with the diecast couplers until Frank got me sorted.
I was assembling the couplers so that the two halves were assembled
tight to each other at the tang. When the tang is bent this means that
the coupler head is not tight and this was allowing some extra movement
of the knuckle which would then suffer the stuck open problem.
Assembling so the two halves of the head are tight (there might be a
slight gap of the two halves at the tang) usually cures the problem.

Tim
Land of OZ

On 27/10/2017 12:50, Edwardsutorik@... [SergentEng] wrote:
Frank,
Thanks for getting back to me.  I'll do that.  I've got 5 more from this package and 6 from an unopened one.  I think it would make sense to finish out the next 5 or 11 and see if it happens again and/or how often.
But I'll definitely send 'em back so you can check them out.  Well, it ain't "them" yet, only "it".  We'll see.
Ed


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Edward Sutorik
 

Frank,

Thanks for getting back to me.  I'll do that.  I've got 5 more from this package and 6 from an unopened one.  I think it would make sense to finish out the next 5 or 11 and see if it happens again and/or how often.

But I'll definitely send 'em back so you can check them out.  Well, it ain't "them" yet, only "it".  We'll see.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Frank Sergent
 

Hi Ed,
 
I looked back to see when you placed your last order. I’m not aware of any type of casting problems that existed in that time period. I think the best way to diagnose this is for you to send me your bad couplers and let me dissect them. Don’t go crazy on packing materials. A plain envelope with the couplers taped to a piece of paper usually works just fine and is cheap to mail. Send to Sergent Engineering, 7620 Crestland Rd. Knoxville, TN 37938. I can get them headed back to you in a week or less.
 
Thanks,
Frank
 

Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2017 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly
 
 

Rob,

 
I do remember the problem you describe.  I thought the coupler hole elongation problem was just with the "fancy" couplers.  Mine/ours are the type E.
 
I'm also not seeing how an elongated hole would cause the steel ball to drop behind the coupler knuckle casting. 
 
I look forward to Frank discussing the matter.
 
Ed
 
Edward Sutorik 


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Edward Sutorik
 

Rob,

I do remember the problem you describe.  I thought the coupler hole elongation problem was just with the "fancy" couplers.  Mine/ours are the type E.

I'm also not seeing how an elongated hole would cause the steel ball to drop behind the coupler knuckle casting.  

I look forward to Frank discussing the matter.

Ed

Edward Sutorik  


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Rob McLear
 

Ed

Rob is correct if they are two years old there is every chance that they were part of the faulty batch that Frank had problems with.  There a problem with the hole in the coupler, it appeared that the mold over time had elongated the hole in the coupler which allowed the ball to move incorrectly.   Frank to his credit replaced all of mine that had been faulty and then took a bit of time to fix the issue with the mold.

I suggest that you get in touch with Frank, explain what has happened and you should get a positive response.   As far as I know there is no way to fix the problem.   When it happened to me I thought I was going nuts as I had assembled about 200 of these before then.  But no it wasn't me it was a fault in the mold, I had something like 15 of these that would not work no matter what I did.

I have over 400 cars equipped with these now and have assembled another 100 waiting to go on to future purchases.   My choice now is the narrow shank with the Accurail coupler box I find that this is an excellent way to mount a good looking coupler on resin cars, and where I can on RTR equipment.   I keep stock on hand for drop in replacements if I can't use the Narrow's both normal shank and short shank couplers.   I would not give up on my Sergents for anything.

Just my 2c worth.

Rob McLear
Kingaroy
Austraila


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Edward Sutorik
 

Rob,

It appears my response to your post didn't (yet) show up.  I'll try again.

The couplers are roughly two years old.  They're EC87K.  I've got two packages of six that I was intending on working on.  I've only assembled the one, as it seems wise to put assembly on hold for awhile.

It's good to hear that the bad ones are being replaced.  I'd sure like to hear more about that.  From Frank.  As in:  the protocol.

I did read through the "stuck open" archives, and it appears none of it relates to my problem.  Or perhaps "our" problem, as I mentioned others appear to be having a problem, also.

I look forward to a solution to this problem.

Thanks for the guidance,


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Edward Sutorik
 

Andrew,

Thanks for the suggestions.

I checked the holes.  They were fine.

The knuckle went in fine.  And moves fine.  It just opens up too far.  Apparently.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Andrew
 

This has happened to me.  Two things have caused it.  

1.  Walnut shell (blast media) in one of the knuckle mounting holes (top or bottom).
2.  Knuckle arrived with a piece of flash sticking off the end of the part that sits inside the upper and lower halves.  If you don't trim off enough, the knuckle (shank I guess) will not go in properly.  Too much will cause the knuckle to open too far, causing the ball to drop.  

Andrew

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 1:54:35 PM EDT, Edwardsutorik@... [SergentEng] wrote:


 

Over on the Atlas Rescue Forum, several people wrote about a (Sergent) coupler problem.  I quote one of them:


"I can close it with a magnet but it should close on its own without using a magnet looks like the metal ball bearing i blocking it, the knuckle should move that ball up into the upper part of the coupler but its jamming and wont budge."


Several of us either said or hinted that they screwed up assembly.


A couple of days ago, I put a coupler together and experienced the same problem.  I had read the topic previously, so I was very careful about what and where I filed metal.  I DID NOT remove any metal that changed the working surfaces except to gently smooth them.


Anyway, I've just spent some time examining this coupler.  What's happening is the ball is falling from its raised position, partially or completely, behind the knuckle piece.  When this happens, the knuckle cannot be closed.  If one then puts the magnet above the coupler, the knuckle CAN be closed.  This is exactly what the other guys described.


It would appear that the knuckle may be opening a bit too far, thus allowing the ball to drop down.  I did not remove ANY metal in the locations that would control this.


I was about to report my experience back to the Atlas Rescue Forum, but I thought I would stop here first, in case someone can supply additional (helpful) information.



Ed


Edward Sutorik







Re: [SergentEng] Coupler not working properly

Rob Barker
 

this sounds like a problem from a batch of couplers produced two or three years ago.    Frank's been good at replacing them (I had a few bad ones myself.)    First question I'd ask is are these new couplers or older ones you've recently assembled?

Rob Barker
Sydney Australia

PS search archives for stuck open

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:54 AM, Edwardsutorik@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:
 

Over on the Atlas Rescue Forum, several people wrote about a (Sergent) coupler problem.  I quote one of them:


"I can close it with a magnet but it should close on its own without using a magnet looks like the metal ball bearing i blocking it, the knuckle should move that ball up into the upper part of the coupler but its jamming and wont budge."


Several of us either said or hinted that they screwed up assembly.


A couple of days ago, I put a coupler together and experienced the same problem.  I had read the topic previously, so I was very careful about what and where I filed metal.  I DID NOT remove any metal that changed the working surfaces except to gently smooth them.


Anyway, I've just spent some time examining this coupler.  What's happening is the ball is falling from its raised position, partially or completely, behind the knuckle piece.  When this happens, the knuckle cannot be closed.  If one then puts the magnet above the coupler, the knuckle CAN be closed.  This is exactly what the other guys described.


It would appear that the knuckle may be opening a bit too far, thus allowing the ball to drop down.  I did not remove ANY metal in the locations that would control this.


I was about to report my experience back to the Atlas Rescue Forum, but I thought I would stop here first, in case someone can supply additional (helpful) information.



Ed


Edward Sutorik








Coupler not working properly

Edward Sutorik
 

Over on the Atlas Rescue Forum, several people wrote about a (Sergent) coupler problem.  I quote one of them:


"I can close it with a magnet but it should close on its own without using a magnet looks like the metal ball bearing i blocking it, the knuckle should move that ball up into the upper part of the coupler but its jamming and wont budge."


Several of us either said or hinted that they screwed up assembly.


A couple of days ago, I put a coupler together and experienced the same problem.  I had read the topic previously, so I was very careful about what and where I filed metal.  I DID NOT remove any metal that changed the working surfaces except to gently smooth them.


Anyway, I've just spent some time examining this coupler.  What's happening is the ball is falling from its raised position, partially or completely, behind the knuckle piece.  When this happens, the knuckle cannot be closed.  If one then puts the magnet above the coupler, the knuckle CAN be closed.  This is exactly what the other guys described.


It would appear that the knuckle may be opening a bit too far, thus allowing the ball to drop down.  I did not remove ANY metal in the locations that would control this.


I was about to report my experience back to the Atlas Rescue Forum, but I thought I would stop here first, in case someone can supply additional (helpful) information.



Ed


Edward Sutorik







Coupler Assembly

Aaron Heaney
 

If anyone needs or wants couplers assemble for them I'm willing to do so. Price and shipping is whatever seems fair. I'm going to be a long haul truck driver and I'm looking for projects to work on while on the road. Couplers will be fully assembled, painted, and tested. I have assembly fixtures for compatible and narrow shank couplers. I have assembled and installed on my own equipment the HT1R87K for the entire 13 car Broadway Limited from Walthers the HC87K for the engines and probably close to two dozen compatible shanks and a dozen narrow shanks.  Please message me off list at wolfhunt1987 at yahoo dot com. 


Sincerely


Aaron Heaney  




Re: [SergentEng] Couplers ?

Ryan Harris
 

Before the F and SE couplers were continuously available (I believe they were lost wax castings of 3D printed parts back then), I used McHenry shelf couplers on cars that needed them. The reason is they would couple with the Sergent couplers I had on the rest of my models. They actually coupled and performed bettwr than Kadees for this purpose. Once the shelf and F couplers became available I chucked the McHenrys and installed Sergents. 

I have to say, building all those E and SBE couplers was good practice for the SE and F couplers I've been building lately. 


Ryan Harris


-------- Original message --------
From: "Alan Hummel ahummel72@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...>
Date: 10/22/17 18:23 (GMT-06:00)
To: SergentEng@...
Subject: Re: [SergentEng] Couplers ?

 

To All,
Sergent couplers will couple with McHenry & Kadee couplers but the couplers will have to be pushed to the side once they join to make the couple. The Sergent's won't couple with the McHenry or Kadee's when coupling "face to face" like 2 Sergent couplers do. But I've coupled my McHenry and Kadee couplers to a Sergent coupler by this method. So an instant change over from Kadee or McHenry isn't necessary all at once. This is what I've found. I'm changing to all Sergent's but until the funds permit I will couple with some McHenry couplers or Kadee couplers. Nothing is as realistic as Sergent couplers,or work like Sergent Couplers do.

Alan Hummel


On Sunday, October 22, 2017 4:14 PM, "AP ihtsbih_2014@... [SergentEng]" <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 
I don't think yahoo groups allows sending of pictures.  

I would suggest starting out with the EC87K 6 pack (the couplers do not come assembled, they are a kit).  The E type coupler would be appropriate for all locomotives listed.  As far as specific fit:  If you already have un-modified Kadee's installed, the EC87K should fit just fine.  If something other than a Kadee is installed currently (Mchenry on the Athearn locomotives) you may have to do some modifications.  I installed Sergents in my Athearn Genesis SD70ace, but I dont remember if I had to make any modifications.

Note:  
Sergents will not couple to Kadee couplers.   


On Sunday, October 22, 2017, 4:01:08 PM EDT, CT W cwz71980@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 
Ok awesome thank you have some h o sd70s I want to get the couplers for also for the 2 steam engines I have the u p big boy and the s p daylight  can you send me pictures of the ones i need for those I would appreciate it   I want to change all my couplers to what you all have the realism is out of the world    I wish the manufacturer like athearn or walthers would already have the Sergent on there locomotives and rolling stock 



On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 7:28 AM, AP ihtsbih_2014@... [SergentEng]
<SergentEng@...> wrote:
 
Hello.....

Which ones you use will depend on a couple of things.  

1. Mechanical fit
As far as fit in the locomotive or car goes, if a Kadee fits in it now, one of the compatible shank couplers should be able to drop in its place.  

If you are currently using one of the over center shanks or under center shank kadee's, then you will either need to carefully file the appropriate side of the sergent's mounting surface or fix the height problem on the piece of equipment. 

Passenger cars are a slightly different animal...

2. Type of coupler (E, SBE, etc)

The short answer....E type, standard length.  Only buy different length couplers if you determine an actual need for them (there are certain situations where they may be needed.  I have not really come across them yet.

Longer answer....

-You can use the years along side the different types of coupler as a guide.
-Refer to prototype photos
-E types were the de-facto standard up until 1968.  If you model before then the choice is easy, E types..E types are still in use.  There isn't a requirement to replace them with anything else at this time, with the exception of a few types of cars:
-Tank cars now require double shelf couplers (modern era)

Tightlock couplers (F, SF, and H) require larger radius curves than most people have.  If you have 24" radius, these will (likely) not work for you....  I tested the H type on Rapido Osgood-Bradleys(85').  They would not negotiate a 35" radius curves without the cars lifting off the track on the inside.

Andrew
On Sunday, October 22, 2017, 5:37:08 AM EDT, CT W cwz71980@... [SergentEng] <SergentEng@...> wrote:


 
How do I know what coupler I need for h o locomotives and rail cars




Re: [SergentEng] Couplers ?

Alan Hummel
 

To All,
Sergent couplers will couple with McHenry & Kadee couplers but the couplers will have to be pushed to the side once they join to make the couple. The Sergent's won't couple with the McHenry or Kadee's when coupling "face to face" like 2 Sergent couplers do. But I've coupled my McHenry and Kadee couplers to a Sergent coupler by this method. So an instant change over from Kadee or McHenry isn't necessary all at once. This is what I've found. I'm changing to all Sergent's but until the funds permit I will couple with some McHenry couplers or Kadee couplers. Nothing is as realistic as Sergent couplers,or work like Sergent Couplers do.

Alan Hummel


On Sunday, October 22, 2017 4:14 PM, "AP ihtsbih_2014@... [SergentEng]" wrote:


 
I don't think yahoo groups allows sending of pictures.  

I would suggest starting out with the EC87K 6 pack (the couplers do not come assembled, they are a kit).  The E type coupler would be appropriate for all locomotives listed.  As far as specific fit:  If you already have un-modified Kadee's installed, the EC87K should fit just fine.  If something other than a Kadee is installed currently (Mchenry on the Athearn locomotives) you may have to do some modifications.  I installed Sergents in my Athearn Genesis SD70ace, but I dont remember if I had to make any modifications.

Note:  
Sergents will not couple to Kadee couplers.   


On Sunday, October 22, 2017, 4:01:08 PM EDT, CT W cwz71980@... [SergentEng] wrote:


 
Ok awesome thank you have some h o sd70s I want to get the couplers for also for the 2 steam engines I have the u p big boy and the s p daylight  can you send me pictures of the ones i need for those I would appreciate it   I want to change all my couplers to what you all have the realism is out of the world    I wish the manufacturer like athearn or walthers would already have the Sergent on there locomotives and rolling stock 



On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 7:28 AM, AP ihtsbih_2014@... [SergentEng]
wrote:
 
Hello.....

Which ones you use will depend on a couple of things.  

1. Mechanical fit
As far as fit in the locomotive or car goes, if a Kadee fits in it now, one of the compatible shank couplers should be able to drop in its place.  

If you are currently using one of the over center shanks or under center shank kadee's, then you will either need to carefully file the appropriate side of the sergent's mounting surface or fix the height problem on the piece of equipment. 

Passenger cars are a slightly different animal...

2. Type of coupler (E, SBE, etc)

The short answer....E type, standard length.  Only buy different length couplers if you determine an actual need for them (there are certain situations where they may be needed.  I have not really come across them yet.

Longer answer....

-You can use the years along side the different types of coupler as a guide.
-Refer to prototype photos
-E types were the de-facto standard up until 1968.  If you model before then the choice is easy, E types..E types are still in use.  There isn't a requirement to replace them with anything else at this time, with the exception of a few types of cars:
-Tank cars now require double shelf couplers (modern era)

Tightlock couplers (F, SF, and H) require larger radius curves than most people have.  If you have 24" radius, these will (likely) not work for you....  I tested the H type on Rapido Osgood-Bradleys(85').  They would not negotiate a 35" radius curves without the cars lifting off the track on the inside.

Andrew
On Sunday, October 22, 2017, 5:37:08 AM EDT, CT W cwz71980@... [SergentEng] wrote:


 
How do I know what coupler I need for h o locomotives and rail cars




Re: [SergentEng] Couplers ?

John Niemeyer
 

You should be able to. Please give it a try.
 
John Niemeyer
group moderator


I don't think yahoo groups allows sending of pictures.
 
AP