Seeking advice on electronics #sabre34MkII


alex.ivatchev@...
 

My 34T has the old, and original Datamarine instruments with wind anemometer malfunctioning. I added a 9" B&G Zeus 2 chart plotter at the helm that is currently used just for maps. 

I will be doing some work on the mast and its a good opportunity to upgrade some of the electronics. I have a near new Raymarine depth meter i50 display that I can get a transducer for cheap. And maybe get a Raymarine wind combo to match. Still keeping a B7G chart plotter.

Or is it best to have all electronics the same B&G brand so I can pull up data on chartplotter itself and have two new B&G depth, and wind speed units at the traditional places.

Any thoughts? How does all that Seatalk, NMEA stuff works?

Alex


Jim Starkey
 

Rule of thumb is single manufacturer is better.  N2K works across manufacturers but just about everyone has private undocumented features that make their own networks better.

Here is quick rundown:

  • NMEA-183 is 4K baud, point to point, serial line.  Used to rule the earth, now doesn't.
  • NMEA-2000 (aka N2K) is a CANbus (industrial controller) replacement for N183.  Good enough for wind and depths, not good enough for charts, images, radar, etc.
  • SeaTalk is proprietary Raymarine 8K baud 3-wire contention bus.
  • SeaTalk-ng ("new generation") is Raymarine N2K with different connectors.
  • SeaTalk-hs ("high speed") is Ethernet, possibly with Raymarine proprietary connectors.
  • OneNet is NMEA's Ethernet protocol, more or less just emerging after a 20 year struggle for NMEA to grasp networking.

There are more, but these are the official ones.

On 2/16/2021 3:33 PM, alex.ivatchev@... wrote:

My 34T has the old, and original Datamarine instruments with wind anemometer malfunctioning. I added a 9" B&G Zeus 2 chart plotter at the helm that is currently used just for maps. 

I will be doing some work on the mast and its a good opportunity to upgrade some of the electronics. I have a near new Raymarine depth meter i50 display that I can get a transducer for cheap. And maybe get a Raymarine wind combo to match. Still keeping a B7G chart plotter.

Or is it best to have all electronics the same B&G brand so I can pull up data on chartplotter itself and have two new B&G depth, and wind speed units at the traditional places.

Any thoughts? How does all that Seatalk, NMEA stuff works?

Alex

-- 
Jim Starkey


Tony Billera
 

Thanks Jim. 

Very helpful. 

I’ve got old Raymarine that the install tech was about to get to synchronize to my 2 year old MFD.  Every connects except for waypoint steering and Autopilot. Not sure how he did it. It is important that I power up everything together. 

Probably upgrade old instruments in future and stay w Raymarine per your suggestion. 




Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.


On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:46 PM, Jim Starkey <Jim@...> wrote:



Rule of thumb is single manufacturer is better.  N2K works across manufacturers but just about everyone has private undocumented features that make their own networks better.

Here is quick rundown:

  • NMEA-183 is 4K baud, point to point, serial line.  Used to rule the earth, now doesn't.
  • NMEA-2000 (aka N2K) is a CANbus (industrial controller) replacement for N183.  Good enough for wind and depths, not good enough for charts, images, radar, etc.
  • SeaTalk is proprietary Raymarine 8K baud 3-wire contention bus.
  • SeaTalk-ng ("new generation") is Raymarine N2K with different connectors.
  • SeaTalk-hs ("high speed") is Ethernet, possibly with Raymarine proprietary connectors.
  • OneNet is NMEA's Ethernet protocol, more or less just emerging after a 20 year struggle for NMEA to grasp networking.

There are more, but these are the official ones.

On 2/16/2021 3:33 PM, alex.ivatchev@... wrote:

My 34T has the old, and original Datamarine instruments with wind anemometer malfunctioning. I added a 9" B&G Zeus 2 chart plotter at the helm that is currently used just for maps. 

I will be doing some work on the mast and its a good opportunity to upgrade some of the electronics. I have a near new Raymarine depth meter i50 display that I can get a transducer for cheap. And maybe get a Raymarine wind combo to match. Still keeping a B7G chart plotter.

Or is it best to have all electronics the same B&G brand so I can pull up data on chartplotter itself and have two new B&G depth, and wind speed units at the traditional places.

Any thoughts? How does all that Seatalk, NMEA stuff works?

Alex

-- 
Jim Starkey


John Hannan
 

Is this the Datamarine Link 5000? If the remote unit on the cockpit bulkhead is in good working order I would be interested in buying it. As long as the anemometer issue is between the masthead and the main nav desk component then my main unit should send OK to the remote - I think.

Let me know.

If anyone else in the group has Datamarine Link 5000 components let me know.

Thanks very much.


Jim Starkey
 

This would be a very good time to avoid doing anything expensive or comprehensive.  NMEA OneNet (name says it all) is going to obsolete N2K in very short order, say a year or two.  Likely that the big guys already have OneNet implemented in current chart plotters that can be turned on with a magic decoder ring, but no certainty.  Or, in other words, this may be your last opportunity to buy brand new obsolete instruments  Hold your breath, cobble together what is working, and stockpile chewing gum, paper clips, and duct tape.  A year from now will probably be a hole different marine electronics world.

On 2/16/2021 3:52 PM, Tony Billera wrote:
Thanks Jim. 

Very helpful. 

I’ve got old Raymarine that the install tech was about to get to synchronize to my 2 year old MFD.  Every connects except for waypoint steering and Autopilot. Not sure how he did it. It is important that I power up everything together. 

Probably upgrade old instruments in future and stay w Raymarine per your suggestion. 



Tony

Tony Billera

Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.


On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:46 PM, Jim Starkey <Jim@...> wrote:



Rule of thumb is single manufacturer is better.  N2K works across manufacturers but just about everyone has private undocumented features that make their own networks better.

Here is quick rundown:

  • NMEA-183 is 4K baud, point to point, serial line.  Used to rule the earth, now doesn't.
  • NMEA-2000 (aka N2K) is a CANbus (industrial controller) replacement for N183.  Good enough for wind and depths, not good enough for charts, images, radar, etc.
  • SeaTalk is proprietary Raymarine 8K baud 3-wire contention bus.
  • SeaTalk-ng ("new generation") is Raymarine N2K with different connectors.
  • SeaTalk-hs ("high speed") is Ethernet, possibly with Raymarine proprietary connectors.
  • OneNet is NMEA's Ethernet protocol, more or less just emerging after a 20 year struggle for NMEA to grasp networking.

There are more, but these are the official ones.

On 2/16/2021 3:33 PM, alex.ivatchev@... wrote:

My 34T has the old, and original Datamarine instruments with wind anemometer malfunctioning. I added a 9" B&G Zeus 2 chart plotter at the helm that is currently used just for maps. 

I will be doing some work on the mast and its a good opportunity to upgrade some of the electronics. I have a near new Raymarine depth meter i50 display that I can get a transducer for cheap. And maybe get a Raymarine wind combo to match. Still keeping a B7G chart plotter.

Or is it best to have all electronics the same B&G brand so I can pull up data on chartplotter itself and have two new B&G depth, and wind speed units at the traditional places.

Any thoughts? How does all that Seatalk, NMEA stuff works?

Alex

-- 
Jim Starkey
-- 
Jim Starkey


Harry Keith
 

Jim is mostly right (OK, his facts are COMPLETELY right, his conclusions are mostly right).

Sensors (depth, speed, wind) are all made by one vendor -- Airmar.  There are no differences.  A Furuno DST is an Airmar DST with a Furuno label.
N2K is broadly and effectively cross-vendor.  It really all works seamlessly.  The one BIG difference is that software upgrades require a same-brand chart plotter.  Which is really irrelevant, as no one actually makes software upgrades.
The Raymarine translator from ST to ST-NG is an awesome bit of kit for an awesome price.  Really.  Put it on the N2K network, hook your old Ray autopilot on, and the autopilot will see wind, waypoints, etc, and the autopilot compass will be available on the N2K network.
Jim's concern about N2K not pushing charts, images, etc is accurate.  However, on a S34, are you going to do that?  No, didn't think so.
Of course, sticking with B&G is a good idea -- the Triton was an amazing instrument, and I assume the Triton 2 is amazing^2.  But I'm sure a Garmin would work as nicely.  Note that B&G has aggressive, rigid price-fixing rules, so you won't get a good deal anywhere -- everyone will have the same stupid-high price.

On my 34-1, I had an old Garmin NMEA-0138, Airmar DST800, Airmar WS200, and two Tritons, with an Actisense 0183-N2K converter and a Ray ST/STNG converter, and everything played together far more smoothly than I ever expected.  I also had a B&G VHF, but that was a simple 2-way high speed 0183 connection direct between the radio and the Garmin plotter (that data doesn't need anywhere else).


On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:52 PM Tony Billera <tony.billera@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim. 

Very helpful. 

I’ve got old Raymarine that the install tech was about to get to synchronize to my 2 year old MFD.  Every connects except for waypoint steering and Autopilot. Not sure how he did it. It is important that I power up everything together. 

Probably upgrade old instruments in future and stay w Raymarine per your suggestion. 




Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.


On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:46 PM, Jim Starkey <Jim@...> wrote:



Rule of thumb is single manufacturer is better.  N2K works across manufacturers but just about everyone has private undocumented features that make their own networks better.

Here is quick rundown:

  • NMEA-183 is 4K baud, point to point, serial line.  Used to rule the earth, now doesn't.
  • NMEA-2000 (aka N2K) is a CANbus (industrial controller) replacement for N183.  Good enough for wind and depths, not good enough for charts, images, radar, etc.
  • SeaTalk is proprietary Raymarine 8K baud 3-wire contention bus.
  • SeaTalk-ng ("new generation") is Raymarine N2K with different connectors.
  • SeaTalk-hs ("high speed") is Ethernet, possibly with Raymarine proprietary connectors.
  • OneNet is NMEA's Ethernet protocol, more or less just emerging after a 20 year struggle for NMEA to grasp networking.

There are more, but these are the official ones.

On 2/16/2021 3:33 PM, alex.ivatchev@... wrote:

My 34T has the old, and original Datamarine instruments with wind anemometer malfunctioning. I added a 9" B&G Zeus 2 chart plotter at the helm that is currently used just for maps. 

I will be doing some work on the mast and its a good opportunity to upgrade some of the electronics. I have a near new Raymarine depth meter i50 display that I can get a transducer for cheap. And maybe get a Raymarine wind combo to match. Still keeping a B7G chart plotter.

Or is it best to have all electronics the same B&G brand so I can pull up data on chartplotter itself and have two new B&G depth, and wind speed units at the traditional places.

Any thoughts? How does all that Seatalk, NMEA stuff works?

Alex

-- 
Jim Starkey


David Jaworski
 

I just upgraded from Raymarine to B&G chart plotter, depth & speed, and wind.  Very impressed with sailing features and integration with Raymarine Autohelm. 

David Jaworski 
96 362
Magothy River, MD


On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Harry Keith <sailor11767@...> wrote:


Jim is mostly right (OK, his facts are COMPLETELY right, his conclusions are mostly right).

Sensors (depth, speed, wind) are all made by one vendor -- Airmar.  There are no differences.  A Furuno DST is an Airmar DST with a Furuno label.
N2K is broadly and effectively cross-vendor.  It really all works seamlessly.  The one BIG difference is that software upgrades require a same-brand chart plotter.  Which is really irrelevant, as no one actually makes software upgrades.
The Raymarine translator from ST to ST-NG is an awesome bit of kit for an awesome price.  Really.  Put it on the N2K network, hook your old Ray autopilot on, and the autopilot will see wind, waypoints, etc, and the autopilot compass will be available on the N2K network.
Jim's concern about N2K not pushing charts, images, etc is accurate.  However, on a S34, are you going to do that?  No, didn't think so.
Of course, sticking with B&G is a good idea -- the Triton was an amazing instrument, and I assume the Triton 2 is amazing^2.  But I'm sure a Garmin would work as nicely.  Note that B&G has aggressive, rigid price-fixing rules, so you won't get a good deal anywhere -- everyone will have the same stupid-high price.

On my 34-1, I had an old Garmin NMEA-0138, Airmar DST800, Airmar WS200, and two Tritons, with an Actisense 0183-N2K converter and a Ray ST/STNG converter, and everything played together far more smoothly than I ever expected.  I also had a B&G VHF, but that was a simple 2-way high speed 0183 connection direct between the radio and the Garmin plotter (that data doesn't need anywhere else).

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:52 PM Tony Billera <tony.billera@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim. 

Very helpful. 

I’ve got old Raymarine that the install tech was about to get to synchronize to my 2 year old MFD.  Every connects except for waypoint steering and Autopilot. Not sure how he did it. It is important that I power up everything together. 

Probably upgrade old instruments in future and stay w Raymarine per your suggestion. 




Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.


On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:46 PM, Jim Starkey <Jim@...> wrote:



Rule of thumb is single manufacturer is better.  N2K works across manufacturers but just about everyone has private undocumented features that make their own networks better.

Here is quick rundown:

  • NMEA-183 is 4K baud, point to point, serial line.  Used to rule the earth, now doesn't.
  • NMEA-2000 (aka N2K) is a CANbus (industrial controller) replacement for N183.  Good enough for wind and depths, not good enough for charts, images, radar, etc.
  • SeaTalk is proprietary Raymarine 8K baud 3-wire contention bus.
  • SeaTalk-ng ("new generation") is Raymarine N2K with different connectors.
  • SeaTalk-hs ("high speed") is Ethernet, possibly with Raymarine proprietary connectors.
  • OneNet is NMEA's Ethernet protocol, more or less just emerging after a 20 year struggle for NMEA to grasp networking.

There are more, but these are the official ones.

On 2/16/2021 3:33 PM, alex.ivatchev@... wrote:

My 34T has the old, and original Datamarine instruments with wind anemometer malfunctioning. I added a 9" B&G Zeus 2 chart plotter at the helm that is currently used just for maps. 

I will be doing some work on the mast and its a good opportunity to upgrade some of the electronics. I have a near new Raymarine depth meter i50 display that I can get a transducer for cheap. And maybe get a Raymarine wind combo to match. Still keeping a B7G chart plotter.

Or is it best to have all electronics the same B&G brand so I can pull up data on chartplotter itself and have two new B&G depth, and wind speed units at the traditional places.

Any thoughts? How does all that Seatalk, NMEA stuff works?

Alex

-- 
Jim Starkey


David Lochner
 

The B&G Triton2 instruments did get a software upgrade. To update the instruments it is necessary to download the update to a USB flash drive and insert the drive into a USB port on the back of the instruments.

The AP computer and MFD are upgraded through an internet connection. Be forewarned, when the AP software gets updated it wipes out the calibration and settings. It is necessary to go back and recalibrate the AP. Also make certain you have the latest Link app.


Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Harry Keith <sailor11767@...> wrote:

Jim is mostly right (OK, his facts are COMPLETELY right, his conclusions are mostly right).

Sensors (depth, speed, wind) are all made by one vendor -- Airmar.  There are no differences.  A Furuno DST is an Airmar DST with a Furuno label.
N2K is broadly and effectively cross-vendor.  It really all works seamlessly.  The one BIG difference is that software upgrades require a same-brand chart plotter.  Which is really irrelevant, as no one actually makes software upgrades.
The Raymarine translator from ST to ST-NG is an awesome bit of kit for an awesome price.  Really.  Put it on the N2K network, hook your old Ray autopilot on, and the autopilot will see wind, waypoints, etc, and the autopilot compass will be available on the N2K network.
Jim's concern about N2K not pushing charts, images, etc is accurate.  However, on a S34, are you going to do that?  No, didn't think so.
Of course, sticking with B&G is a good idea -- the Triton was an amazing instrument, and I assume the Triton 2 is amazing^2.  But I'm sure a Garmin would work as nicely.  Note that B&G has aggressive, rigid price-fixing rules, so you won't get a good deal anywhere -- everyone will have the same stupid-high price.

On my 34-1, I had an old Garmin NMEA-0138, Airmar DST800, Airmar WS200, and two Tritons, with an Actisense 0183-N2K converter and a Ray ST/STNG converter, and everything played together far more smoothly than I ever expected.  I also had a B&G VHF, but that was a simple 2-way high speed 0183 connection direct between the radio and the Garmin plotter (that data doesn't need anywhere else).

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:52 PM Tony Billera <tony.billera@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim. 

Very helpful. 

I’ve got old Raymarine that the install tech was about to get to synchronize to my 2 year old MFD.  Every connects except for waypoint steering and Autopilot. Not sure how he did it. It is important that I power up everything together. 

Probably upgrade old instruments in future and stay w Raymarine per your suggestion. 




Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.


On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:46 PM, Jim Starkey <Jim@...> wrote:



Rule of thumb is single manufacturer is better.  N2K works across manufacturers but just about everyone has private undocumented features that make their own networks better.

Here is quick rundown:

  • NMEA-183 is 4K baud, point to point, serial line.  Used to rule the earth, now doesn't.
  • NMEA-2000 (aka N2K) is a CANbus (industrial controller) replacement for N183.  Good enough for wind and depths, not good enough for charts, images, radar, etc.
  • SeaTalk is proprietary Raymarine 8K baud 3-wire contention bus. 
  • SeaTalk-ng ("new generation") is Raymarine N2K with different connectors.
  • SeaTalk-hs ("high speed") is Ethernet, possibly with Raymarine proprietary connectors.
  • OneNet is NMEA's Ethernet protocol, more or less just emerging after a 20 year struggle for NMEA to grasp networking.

There are more, but these are the official ones.

On 2/16/2021 3:33 PM, alex.ivatchev@... wrote:

My 34T has the old, and original Datamarine instruments with wind anemometer malfunctioning. I added a 9" B&G Zeus 2 chart plotter at the helm that is currently used just for maps. 

I will be doing some work on the mast and its a good opportunity to upgrade some of the electronics. I have a near new Raymarine depth meter i50 display that I can get a transducer for cheap. And maybe get a Raymarine wind combo to match. Still keeping a B7G chart plotter.

Or is it best to have all electronics the same B&G brand so I can pull up data on chartplotter itself and have two new B&G depth, and wind speed units at the traditional places. 

Any thoughts? How does all that Seatalk, NMEA stuff works?

Alex

-- 
Jim Starkey




Len Bertaux
 

Other than radar and chart plotter the sensors and the displays are N2K interchangeable. I have mostly B&G on board but am really partial to the large Garmin displays, more flexibility and cheaper than the B&G 20/20’s. 

Len Bertaux
Walkabout

On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:08 PM, David Lochner via groups.io <davelochner@...> wrote:

The B&G Triton2 instruments did get a software upgrade. To update the instruments it is necessary to download the update to a USB flash drive and insert the drive into a USB port on the back of the instruments.

The AP computer and MFD are upgraded through an internet connection. Be forewarned, when the AP software gets updated it wipes out the calibration and settings. It is necessary to go back and recalibrate the AP. Also make certain you have the latest Link app.


Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

On Feb 16, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Harry Keith <sailor11767@...> wrote:

Jim is mostly right (OK, his facts are COMPLETELY right, his conclusions are mostly right).

Sensors (depth, speed, wind) are all made by one vendor -- Airmar.  There are no differences.  A Furuno DST is an Airmar DST with a Furuno label.
N2K is broadly and effectively cross-vendor.  It really all works seamlessly.  The one BIG difference is that software upgrades require a same-brand chart plotter.  Which is really irrelevant, as no one actually makes software upgrades.
The Raymarine translator from ST to ST-NG is an awesome bit of kit for an awesome price.  Really.  Put it on the N2K network, hook your old Ray autopilot on, and the autopilot will see wind, waypoints, etc, and the autopilot compass will be available on the N2K network.
Jim's concern about N2K not pushing charts, images, etc is accurate.  However, on a S34, are you going to do that?  No, didn't think so.
Of course, sticking with B&G is a good idea -- the Triton was an amazing instrument, and I assume the Triton 2 is amazing^2.  But I'm sure a Garmin would work as nicely.  Note that B&G has aggressive, rigid price-fixing rules, so you won't get a good deal anywhere -- everyone will have the same stupid-high price.

On my 34-1, I had an old Garmin NMEA-0138, Airmar DST800, Airmar WS200, and two Tritons, with an Actisense 0183-N2K converter and a Ray ST/STNG converter, and everything played together far more smoothly than I ever expected.  I also had a B&G VHF, but that was a simple 2-way high speed 0183 connection direct between the radio and the Garmin plotter (that data doesn't need anywhere else).

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:52 PM Tony Billera <tony.billera@...> wrote:
Thanks Jim. 

Very helpful. 

I’ve got old Raymarine that the install tech was about to get to synchronize to my 2 year old MFD.  Every connects except for waypoint steering and Autopilot. Not sure how he did it. It is important that I power up everything together. 

Probably upgrade old instruments in future and stay w Raymarine per your suggestion. 




Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.


On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:46 PM, Jim Starkey <Jim@...> wrote:



Rule of thumb is single manufacturer is better.  N2K works across manufacturers but just about everyone has private undocumented features that make their own networks better.

Here is quick rundown:

  • NMEA-183 is 4K baud, point to point, serial line.  Used to rule the earth, now doesn't.
  • NMEA-2000 (aka N2K) is a CANbus (industrial controller) replacement for N183.  Good enough for wind and depths, not good enough for charts, images, radar, etc.
  • SeaTalk is proprietary Raymarine 8K baud 3-wire contention bus. 
  • SeaTalk-ng ("new generation") is Raymarine N2K with different connectors.
  • SeaTalk-hs ("high speed") is Ethernet, possibly with Raymarine proprietary connectors.
  • OneNet is NMEA's Ethernet protocol, more or less just emerging after a 20 year struggle for NMEA to grasp networking.

There are more, but these are the official ones.

On 2/16/2021 3:33 PM, alex.ivatchev@... wrote:

My 34T has the old, and original Datamarine instruments with wind anemometer malfunctioning. I added a 9" B&G Zeus 2 chart plotter at the helm that is currently used just for maps. 

I will be doing some work on the mast and its a good opportunity to upgrade some of the electronics. I have a near new Raymarine depth meter i50 display that I can get a transducer for cheap. And maybe get a Raymarine wind combo to match. Still keeping a B7G chart plotter.

Or is it best to have all electronics the same B&G brand so I can pull up data on chartplotter itself and have two new B&G depth, and wind speed units at the traditional places. 

Any thoughts? How does all that Seatalk, NMEA stuff works?

Alex

-- 
Jim Starkey





Stephanie
 

And sorry Dave, but that’s where my Garman excels. Plug and play and all device software updates happen as soon as my phone connects to the chart plotter. Multifunction displays are excellent but the ultrasound air Mart units were not available a year ago to source. Promised but not out. So I replaced a$16 paddlewheel and it worked great. Simulcast on any iPhone or droid tablet.

Could use a replacement autopilot as the old 4000 did not know where it was going. Thoughts on this kit? Eventually would want a below deck but is it worth the price ?

Stephanie
Arista, S36 #67, Lake Ontario
Shburgess1207@gmail.com


--
Stephanie
Moderator

Sabre 36, #67
Formerly Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario


Charlie McMillan
 

Stephanie,

I back you up 100% on Garmin. Our local chandlery would say the same all around  in terms of happy customers and service.

I added Garmin's Reactor 40 Autopilot last fall with the Jefa DD1 drive below decks. Integration with all other Garmin instruments and sensors is flawless. I can’t say enough about how well it works and the simplicity of the installation. Jefa support is the best I have ever had, Garmin’s not bad either. 

Happy to share details if you're interested.

Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:16 PM, Stephanie <Shburgess1207@...> wrote:

And sorry Dave, but that’s where my Garman excels. Plug and play and all device software updates happen as soon as my phone connects to the chart plotter. Multifunction displays are excellent but the ultrasound air Mart units were not available a year ago to source.  Promised but not out. So I replaced a$16 paddlewheel and it worked great.  Simulcast on any iPhone or droid tablet.

Could use a replacement autopilot as the old 4000 did not know where it was going. Thoughts on this kit?  Eventually would want a below deck but is it worth the price ?

Stephanie
Arista, S36 #67, Lake Ontario
Shburgess1207@...


--
Stephanie
Moderator

Sabre 36, #67
Formerly Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario







David Short, SV One Timer, 1997 362, Mt Desert, ME
 

Previous Pearson had a wheel pilot. Current 362 is below deck. Have single handed both in 25 knots Wheel pilot couldn’t take it. Below decks did. A real life saver.

On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:16 PM, Stephanie <Shburgess1207@gmail.com> wrote:

And sorry Dave, but that’s where my Garman excels. Plug and play and all device software updates happen as soon as my phone connects to the chart plotter. Multifunction displays are excellent but the ultrasound air Mart units were not available a year ago to source. Promised but not out. So I replaced a$16 paddlewheel and it worked great. Simulcast on any iPhone or droid tablet.

Could use a replacement autopilot as the old 4000 did not know where it was going. Thoughts on this kit? Eventually would want a below deck but is it worth the price ?

Stephanie
Arista, S36 #67, Lake Ontario
Shburgess1207@gmail.com


--
Stephanie
Moderator

Sabre 36, #67
Formerly Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario





David Lochner
 

OK, this is good. We now have an alternative Varnish Wars, Electronics wars!

When I invested heavily in electronics, Garmin was not a player. I had a Garming MFD and it sucked. I have a Garmin handheld GPS and the user interface sucked. Raymarine has an unstable corporate history and a reputation for poor tech support and customer service. B&G had the most advanced radar and great sailing features on the MFD. It was a no brainer. And as Starkey said, things work best when you stick to the same vendor , especially when there is an interface issue. 

There is a world of difference between a wheel pilot and a below deck pilot. Don’t waste money on a wheel pilot. The wheel pilots are not powerful enough to handle any kind of seaway, especially off the wind. If all you are using an AP for is to control the boat while you set sails or go to the head, then a wheel pilot will work. Crossing the lake on a windy day? The wheel pilot can’t keep up. When I had my 30 with a RM wheel pilot I had to hand steer when the wind go up around 15 knots. 


Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:16 PM, Stephanie <Shburgess1207@...> wrote:

And sorry Dave, but that’s where my Garman excels. Plug and play and all device software updates happen as soon as my phone connects to the chart plotter. Multifunction displays are excellent but the ultrasound air Mart units were not available a year ago to source.  Promised but not out. So I replaced a$16 paddlewheel and it worked great.  Simulcast on any iPhone or droid tablet.

Could use a replacement autopilot as the old 4000 did not know where it was going. Thoughts on this kit?  Eventually would want a below deck but is it worth the price ?

Stephanie
Arista, S36 #67, Lake Ontario
Shburgess1207@...


--
Stephanie
Moderator

Sabre 36, #67
Formerly Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario







Jim Starkey
 

Here's a nutshell history of Garmin:  The "Min" of Garmin was a senior engineer at King (avionics) who was unable to convince King management that GPS was a big thing (King owned small plane avionics, so why upset your customer base?).  He was sitting around his kitchen table one night grousing about King, GPS, and the lack of fusion there of.  His friend, the "Gar" said he had a bunch of friends with lots of money so why don't they start a company.  And so they did.

The first easy market was handheld marine GPSes, which worked out just fine.  The expanded to fix units, which were initially pretty klunky but did the job against weak competition.  But Garmin's true love was aviation.  They put out some products, bought a company or two, then brought out a block buster product, the GNS 430, that was voice and nav radios and GPS navigator in a single box.  It took the industry by storm and left King in the dust forever.

Garmin took over avionics from Pipe Cubs to biz jets.  In the process, they raided the marine business for engineering talent.  At the same time, Garmin was doing great business selling automotive GPSes.  Not surprisingly, their marine products stunk.  I had 4212 chart plotter that caused me to swear off Garmin marine (almost) forever.

The automotive GPS market tanked when it was bundled with new car smell while the handheld GPS market was destroyed by cell phones the way slide rules were trashed by calculators.

So Garmin disparately need excellent marine products to grow.  Almost all of their revenue comes from non-avionics while virtually all of the profit comes from avionics.

Raymarine is on the block, again.  Their products are OK, their support sucks.  They obsoleted my E120W after one year of production and haven't updated it since.  They allegedly have stopped servicing defective products to preserve parts for warranty customers.

I'm holding my breath for the next generation.  Jilted by Garmin, jilted by Raymarine, I guess I'll have to follow Len's lead and try B&D but only after they have taken the OneNet kool-aid.

On 2/16/2021 5:45 PM, David Lochner via groups.io wrote:
OK, this is good. We now have an alternative Varnish Wars, Electronics wars!

When I invested heavily in electronics, Garmin was not a player. I had a Garming MFD and it sucked. I have a Garmin handheld GPS and the user interface sucked. Raymarine has an unstable corporate history and a reputation for poor tech support and customer service. B&G had the most advanced radar and great sailing features on the MFD. It was a no brainer. And as Starkey said, things work best when you stick to the same vendor , especially when there is an interface issue. 

There is a world of difference between a wheel pilot and a below deck pilot. Don’t waste money on a wheel pilot. The wheel pilots are not powerful enough to handle any kind of seaway, especially off the wind. If all you are using an AP for is to control the boat while you set sails or go to the head, then a wheel pilot will work. Crossing the lake on a windy day? The wheel pilot can’t keep up. When I had my 30 with a RM wheel pilot I had to hand steer when the wind go up around 15 knots. 


Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

On Feb 16, 2021, at 5:16 PM, Stephanie <Shburgess1207@...> wrote:

And sorry Dave, but that’s where my Garman excels. Plug and play and all device software updates happen as soon as my phone connects to the chart plotter. Multifunction displays are excellent but the ultrasound air Mart units were not available a year ago to source.  Promised but not out. So I replaced a$16 paddlewheel and it worked great.  Simulcast on any iPhone or droid tablet.

Could use a replacement autopilot as the old 4000 did not know where it was going. Thoughts on this kit?  Eventually would want a below deck but is it worth the price ?

Stephanie
Arista, S36 #67, Lake Ontario
Shburgess1207@...


--
Stephanie
Moderator

Sabre 36, #67
Formerly Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario






-- 
Jim Starkey


alex.ivatchev@...
 

Lots of interesting points. Thanks. I may just keep it very simple and update the wind to B&G, and maybe stick a radar on top of that.