Mast Track recommendation #362Sabre


dphart2010@...
 

I am having the standing rigging on my '96 362 replaced.  While the mast is down, I am considering having the mast track replaced. I have a Hall mast with an external track that takes ¾" T slugs that is welded over the mast groove .   Despite regular cleaning, lubricating, and adjusting the batten cars, the friction in this setup has made single handing a royal pain.  I rigged a ¼" downhaul line so I could pull the sail down from the cockpit which has made the setup tolerable but far from optimal.  I saw an S38 with a similar track that had what looks like a Strong Track slid into the existing external track. This looked like a good solution but N.E. Yacht Riggers told me that the performance of the mainsail will suffer greatly from this arrangement.  They suggested cutting the old tack away, grinding the welds off and adding a new track which makes for a very expensive solution.  I am curious what others have done.  Is it worth cutting the old track away?  Does adding a Strong Track to the existing track have noticeable effect on sail performance?



David Lochner
 

Is that track original? My ’93 362 does not have an external track, just an internal groove. 

Last year we added a Tides track that slide into the internal groove. A big improvement in raising the sail as it reduces friction. 

If you are a serious competitive racer, then adding the track might have an affect on performance, however, for the rest of us I’d be less certain. Talk to a sailmaker about the track. Which ever route you go the sail slugs and cars will need to be replaced. 


Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

On Nov 30, 2020, at 9:49 PM, dphart2010@... wrote:

I am having the standing rigging on my '96 362 replaced.  While the mast is down, I am considering having the mast track replaced. I have a Hall mast with an external track that takes ¾" T slugs that is welded over the mast groove .   Despite regular cleaning, lubricating, and adjusting the batten cars, the friction in this setup has made single handing a royal pain.  I rigged a ¼" downhaul line so I could pull the sail down from the cockpit which has made the setup tolerable but far from optimal.  I saw an S38 with a similar track that had what looks like a Strong Track slid into the existing external track. This looked like a good solution but N.E. Yacht Riggers told me that the performance of the mainsail will suffer greatly from this arrangement.  They suggested cutting the old tack away, grinding the welds off and adding a new track which makes for a very expensive solution.  I am curious what others have done.  Is it worth cutting the old track away?  Does adding a Strong Track to the existing track have noticeable effect on sail performance?


<IMG_9560.jpeg>


Capt. A Ground
 

I own a 1998 Sabre 362 that was sold to me with what was called a Tides Marine Track and Slide System.  There is definitely a black polymer extrusion in the groove in the mast which the mainsail slugs fit into.  It still takes a winch and/or two dudes to get the sail up and tensioned, and someone at the mast to help guide it back down.  It doesn't just drop when you release the halyard like their ads say.  Maybe I need to hose everything down with more silicone.  ;-)
Ted Mendham
Lyndeborough, NH 03082


On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:49 PM <dphart2010@...> wrote:
I am having the standing rigging on my '96 362 replaced.  While the mast is down, I am considering having the mast track replaced. I have a Hall mast with an external track that takes ¾" T slugs that is welded over the mast groove .   Despite regular cleaning, lubricating, and adjusting the batten cars, the friction in this setup has made single handing a royal pain.  I rigged a ¼" downhaul line so I could pull the sail down from the cockpit which has made the setup tolerable but far from optimal.  I saw an S38 with a similar track that had what looks like a Strong Track slid into the existing external track. This looked like a good solution but N.E. Yacht Riggers told me that the performance of the mainsail will suffer greatly from this arrangement.  They suggested cutting the old tack away, grinding the welds off and adding a new track which makes for a very expensive solution.  I am curious what others have done.  Is it worth cutting the old track away?  Does adding a Strong Track to the existing track have noticeable effect on sail performance?



 

I also have the Tides track on my 362 (no external track) and like it. 

Jay


On Nov 30, 2020, at 10:46 PM, Capt. A Ground <eddymayhem@...> wrote:


I own a 1998 Sabre 362 that was sold to me with what was called a Tides Marine Track and Slide System.  There is definitely a black polymer extrusion in the groove in the mast which the mainsail slugs fit into.  It still takes a winch and/or two dudes to get the sail up and tensioned, and someone at the mast to help guide it back down.  It doesn't just drop when you release the halyard like their ads say.  Maybe I need to hose everything down with more silicone.  ;-)
Ted Mendham
Lyndeborough, NH 03082


On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:49 PM <dphart2010@...> wrote:
I am having the standing rigging on my '96 362 replaced.  While the mast is down, I am considering having the mast track replaced. I have a Hall mast with an external track that takes ¾" T slugs that is welded over the mast groove .   Despite regular cleaning, lubricating, and adjusting the batten cars, the friction in this setup has made single handing a royal pain.  I rigged a ¼" downhaul line so I could pull the sail down from the cockpit which has made the setup tolerable but far from optimal.  I saw an S38 with a similar track that had what looks like a Strong Track slid into the existing external track. This looked like a good solution but N.E. Yacht Riggers told me that the performance of the mainsail will suffer greatly from this arrangement.  They suggested cutting the old tack away, grinding the welds off and adding a new track which makes for a very expensive solution.  I am curious what others have done.  Is it worth cutting the old track away?  Does adding a Strong Track to the existing track have noticeable effect on sail performance?


<IMG_9560.jpeg>


Harry Keith
 

My 34-I had a Schaeffer Spar, with round slugs in the mast.  Worked fine (but my new sail broke most of the slugs twice in the 5 years I had it, including an interesting unzipping in an accidental gybe in 30+ kts of wind.....).  Our new boat has the VERY expensive Harken BattCars, and since I didn't pay for it (at least not directly) I can't speak for the cost/benefit ratio.  But raising with our electric cabin top winch is painless, and dropping it is....exciting.  Anyone remember the scene from Water World where Kevin Costner dropped the sail on his fancy multihull, and the whole thing sort of collapsed?  I remember that scene every time I drop the sail.  If there is no tangle, dropping a sail from 64' feet in the air is measured in a small number of seconds.

So that's a report from two extremes....LOL

Harry


On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 10:57 PM Jay Flynn via groups.io <Popgrowl=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I also have the Tides track on my 362 (no external track) and like it. 

Jay


On Nov 30, 2020, at 10:46 PM, Capt. A Ground <eddymayhem@...> wrote:


I own a 1998 Sabre 362 that was sold to me with what was called a Tides Marine Track and Slide System.  There is definitely a black polymer extrusion in the groove in the mast which the mainsail slugs fit into.  It still takes a winch and/or two dudes to get the sail up and tensioned, and someone at the mast to help guide it back down.  It doesn't just drop when you release the halyard like their ads say.  Maybe I need to hose everything down with more silicone.  ;-)
Ted Mendham
Lyndeborough, NH 03082


On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 9:49 PM <dphart2010@...> wrote:
I am having the standing rigging on my '96 362 replaced.  While the mast is down, I am considering having the mast track replaced. I have a Hall mast with an external track that takes ¾" T slugs that is welded over the mast groove .   Despite regular cleaning, lubricating, and adjusting the batten cars, the friction in this setup has made single handing a royal pain.  I rigged a ¼" downhaul line so I could pull the sail down from the cockpit which has made the setup tolerable but far from optimal.  I saw an S38 with a similar track that had what looks like a Strong Track slid into the existing external track. This looked like a good solution but N.E. Yacht Riggers told me that the performance of the mainsail will suffer greatly from this arrangement.  They suggested cutting the old tack away, grinding the welds off and adding a new track which makes for a very expensive solution.  I am curious what others have done.  Is it worth cutting the old track away?  Does adding a Strong Track to the existing track have noticeable effect on sail performance?


<IMG_9560.jpeg>


dpball1@...
 

Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal 


David Short, SV One Timer, 1997 362, Mt Desert, ME
 

Love the Tides track that came with my 362 5 years ago. Pull halyard w/o winch to about 3/4 height, when dropping release halyard and she drops into lazy jacks. Easy reefing too. 
Yes I am a coastal sailor. 

To someone’s comment about stiff Tides track, Practical Sailor had a good article about track cleaning sometime in the last year


On Nov 30, 2020, at 9:49 PM, dphart2010@... wrote:

I am having the standing rigging on my '96 362 replaced.  While the mast is down, I am considering having the mast track replaced. I have a Hall mast with an external track that takes ¾" T slugs that is welded over the mast groove .   Despite regular cleaning, lubricating, and adjusting the batten cars, the friction in this setup has made single handing a royal pain.  I rigged a ¼" downhaul line so I could pull the sail down from the cockpit which has made the setup tolerable but far from optimal.  I saw an S38 with a similar track that had what looks like a Strong Track slid into the existing external track. This looked like a good solution but N.E. Yacht Riggers told me that the performance of the mainsail will suffer greatly from this arrangement.  They suggested cutting the old tack away, grinding the welds off and adding a new track which makes for a very expensive solution.  I am curious what others have done.  Is it worth cutting the old track away?  Does adding a Strong Track to the existing track have noticeable effect on sail performance?


<IMG_9560.jpeg>


Dave Driggers
 

I have had the Strong Track on my S362 for over three years and have been satisfied with the performance.  I can hoist the mainsail about 3/4 of the way without a winch.  And, releasing the halyard drops 90% of the sail in the cradle.  It provides me a significant advantage as I single hand about a month of my 3-month Bahamas winter trip.  So far, so good.
David Driggers
HOTSPUR
Sabre 362
hull #128


dphart2010@...
 

I greatly appreciate all the comments.  It is nice to know people's experience with the two different track systems.  My concern mostly is with adding the Tides strong track to the existing external track versus cutting the external track off and adding a new track either Tides or Harkin. (I am leaning toward the Harkin if I go to the trouble of having the existing track cut off.)  The external track appears to be original equipment as there is in no indication that the mast was ever repainted.  I am the second owner and have had the boat eleven years and, except for the annoying sail track, I haven't had an itch to buy another boat - well, maybe a Perini Navi yacht if it came with crew, slip, and a 300% discount.


Carter Brey
 

Hey there,

I have a Tides Marine track on my 38-II. It definitely improves the mainsail raising/lowering experience. I only need to crank the last couple of meters when making sail, and it drops nicely when striking, although as someone else said, it is an exaggeration to claim that it will drop the whole way unassisted.

As you will see from the attachment, my Hall spar does not have the extra extrusion welded on; it's a simple groove. You know, like Ticket to Ride.

Carter Brey
S38-II Atlantea 
City Island, NY 


Allison Lehman
 

The other thing to think about is how with you mainsail stacks on the boom.  Batt cars  are much taller than  slides.  This may require a new sail cover.  Also I believe that you need full battens for batt cars to work properly.  I would recommend if you are considering batt cars instead of slides, you look at Antal. They are very robust, stack lower than Harken and are lighter in weight.  Less weight means easier to raise.  We have had all Tides and both brands of batt cars and I prefer the Antal.  When it is time to drop the main (we have dutchman),  I merely make sure the halyard is clear and can run freely. Next I load the cabin top winch with the main halyard and the open the clutch.  When I am ready I remove the halyard from the winch quickly and watch it run and make sure it doesn’t hang up. It drops like a rock!



Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:11 AM, dpball1@... wrote:



Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal 


Allison Lehman
 

That track was not a factory option.    

Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 6:35 AM, dphart2010@... wrote:

I greatly appreciate all the comments.  It is nice to know people's experience with the two different track systems.  My concern mostly is with adding the Tides strong track to the existing external track versus cutting the external track off and adding a new track either Tides or Harkin. (I am leaning toward the Harkin if I go to the trouble of having the existing track cut off.)  The external track appears to be original equipment as there is in no indication that the mast was ever repainted.  I am the second owner and have had the boat eleven years and, except for the annoying sail track, I haven't had an itch to buy another boat - well, maybe a Perini Navi yacht if it came with crew, slip, and a 300% discount.


David Lochner
 

Allison brings up a good point. The stack height with a track system is much higher. I’m 6’ and I added a mast step so I can more easily reach the headboard to attach the halyard. My wife could not reach the headboard at all (and she’s taller than Allison, though not by much). We were lucky the sail cover was large enough to fit the sail with the higher stack height.


Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

The other thing to think about is how with you mainsail stacks on the boom.  Batt cars  are much taller than  slides.  This may require a new sail cover.  Also I believe that you need full battens for batt cars to work properly.  I would recommend if you are considering batt cars instead of slides, you look at Antal. They are very robust, stack lower than Harken and are lighter in weight.  Less weight means easier to raise.  We have had all Tides and both brands of batt cars and I prefer the Antal.  When it is time to drop the main (we have dutchman),  I merely make sure the halyard is clear and can run freely. Next I load the cabin top winch with the main halyard and the open the clutch.  When I am ready I remove the halyard from the winch quickly and watch it run and make sure it doesn’t hang up. It drops like a rock!



Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:11 AM, dpball1@... wrote:



Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal 



yves a. feder <yafeder37@...>
 

Just sticking my 2 cents in since this struck a chord (c Major triad)….

 

When I got my 34/II, I went for a new main from Hood (the owner was a friend) while she was on the hard, so I only experienced the handling when it was brand new. This was compounded by my also getting a new track……….. Tides. Nice track though.

 

It was definitely stiff, not like a well worn mailsail…….. so same thing, it didn’t go down all the way –

 

Yerz drooly

Y

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Carter Brey
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 10:39 AM
To: SabreSailboat@groups.io
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Mast Track recommendation #362Sabre

 

Hey there,

I have a Tides Marine track on my 38-II. It definitely improves the mainsail raising/lowering experience. I only need to crank the last couple of meters when making sail, and it drops nicely when striking, although as someone else said, it is an exaggeration to claim that it will drop the whole way unassisted.

As you will see from the attachment, my Hall spar does not have the extra extrusion welded on; it's a simple groove. You know, like Ticket to Ride.

Carter Brey
S38-II Atlantea 
City Island, NY 

 


Charlie McMillan
 

I have the same system as Allison on Skye and love its simplicity and nearly flawless execution. I’m currently “training” the new 3Di mainsail to fold neatly when dropped but based on the past main, it should do the same sometime mid season next year. I went for the Harken cars as suggested from North and a match to the past main cars. Dutchman with Spectra lines works incredibly well.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

The other thing to think about is how with you mainsail stacks on the boom.  Batt cars  are much taller than  slides.  This may require a new sail cover.  Also I believe that you need full battens for batt cars to work properly.  I would recommend if you are considering batt cars instead of slides, you look at Antal. They are very robust, stack lower than Harken and are lighter in weight.  Less weight means easier to raise.  We have had all Tides and both brands of batt cars and I prefer the Antal.  When it is time to drop the main (we have dutchman),  I merely make sure the halyard is clear and can run freely. Next I load the cabin top winch with the main halyard and the open the clutch.  When I am ready I remove the halyard from the winch quickly and watch it run and make sure it doesn’t hang up. It drops like a rock!



Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:11 AM, dpball1@... wrote:



Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal 



Allison Lehman
 

Charlie we took a shortcut to train our cruiselam main.  We raised and lowered it about 12 times and each time we dropped it we gasketed it tightly. After that it has been perfect!  

Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Charlie McMillan <charlie@...> wrote:

 I have the same system as Allison on Skye and love its simplicity and nearly flawless execution. I’m currently “training” the new 3Di mainsail to fold neatly when dropped but based on the past main, it should do the same sometime mid season next year. I went for the Harken cars as suggested from North and a match to the past main cars. Dutchman with Spectra lines works incredibly well.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

The other thing to think about is how with you mainsail stacks on the boom.  Batt cars  are much taller than  slides.  This may require a new sail cover.  Also I believe that you need full battens for batt cars to work properly.  I would recommend if you are considering batt cars instead of slides, you look at Antal. They are very robust, stack lower than Harken and are lighter in weight.  Less weight means easier to raise.  We have had all Tides and both brands of batt cars and I prefer the Antal.  When it is time to drop the main (we have dutchman),  I merely make sure the halyard is clear and can run freely. Next I load the cabin top winch with the main halyard and the open the clutch.  When I am ready I remove the halyard from the winch quickly and watch it run and make sure it doesn’t hang up. It drops like a rock!



Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:11 AM, dpball1@... wrote:



Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal 



Allison Lehman
 

Dave is you wife 6” tall ?   😂 

Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:13 AM, David Lochner via groups.io <davelochner@...> wrote:

Allison brings up a good point. The stack height with a track system is much higher. I’m 6’ and I added a mast step so I can more easily reach the headboard to attach the halyard. My wife could not reach the headboard at all (and she’s taller than Allison, though not by much). We were lucky the sail cover was large enough to fit the sail with the higher stack height.


Dave
Second Star
S362 #113
Fair Haven, NY/Lake Ontario

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

The other thing to think about is how with you mainsail stacks on the boom.  Batt cars  are much taller than  slides.  This may require a new sail cover.  Also I believe that you need full battens for batt cars to work properly.  I would recommend if you are considering batt cars instead of slides, you look at Antal. They are very robust, stack lower than Harken and are lighter in weight.  Less weight means easier to raise.  We have had all Tides and both brands of batt cars and I prefer the Antal.  When it is time to drop the main (we have dutchman),  I merely make sure the halyard is clear and can run freely. Next I load the cabin top winch with the main halyard and the open the clutch.  When I am ready I remove the halyard from the winch quickly and watch it run and make sure it doesn’t hang up. It drops like a rock!



Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:11 AM, dpball1@... wrote:



Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal 



Charlie McMillan
 

Allison,

Thanks for the instruction, much appreciated. With limited sailing this past season, we only had the new sail out on the water 4 times. 

Training session on the calendar for March 2021!


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:23 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

Charlie we took a shortcut to train our cruiselam main.  We raised and lowered it about 12 times and each time we dropped it we gasketed it tightly. After that it has been perfect!  

Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Charlie McMillan <charlie@...> wrote:

 I have the same system as Allison on Skye and love its simplicity and nearly flawless execution. I’m currently “training” the new 3Di mainsail to fold neatly when dropped but based on the past main, it should do the same sometime mid season next year. I went for the Harken cars as suggested from North and a match to the past main cars. Dutchman with Spectra lines works incredibly well.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

The other thing to think about is how with you mainsail stacks on the boom.  Batt cars  are much taller than  slides.  This may require a new sail cover.  Also I believe that you need full battens for batt cars to work properly.  I would recommend if you are considering batt cars instead of slides, you look at Antal. They are very robust, stack lower than Harken and are lighter in weight.  Less weight means easier to raise.  We have had all Tides and both brands of batt cars and I prefer the Antal.  When it is time to drop the main (we have dutchman),  I merely make sure the halyard is clear and can run freely. Next I load the cabin top winch with the main halyard and the open the clutch.  When I am ready I remove the halyard from the winch quickly and watch it run and make sure it doesn’t hang up. It drops like a rock!



Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:11 AM, dpball1@... wrote:



Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal 




Allison Lehman
 

Charlie, I love the Spectra for the Dutchman.  It saved our bacon when we blew up the gooseneck offshore.  Did you do this yourself or did a local rigger do it?  Kingfisher came from CT with this system in place so I was wondering if it was the same person.


Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
allison@...
Cell: 510.912.5800
Fax: 510.860.4640







On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:31 AM, Charlie McMillan <charlie@...> wrote:

Allison,

Thanks for the instruction, much appreciated. With limited sailing this past season, we only had the new sail out on the water 4 times. 

Training session on the calendar for March 2021!


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:23 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

Charlie we took a shortcut to train our cruiselam main.  We raised and lowered it about 12 times and each time we dropped it we gasketed it tightly. After that it has been perfect!  

Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Charlie McMillan <charlie@...> wrote:

 I have the same system as Allison on Skye and love its simplicity and nearly flawless execution. I’m currently “training” the new 3Di mainsail to fold neatly when dropped but based on the past main, it should do the same sometime mid season next year. I went for the Harken cars as suggested from North and a match to the past main cars. Dutchman with Spectra lines works incredibly well.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

The other thing to think about is how with you mainsail stacks on the boom.  Batt cars  are much taller than  slides.  This may require a new sail cover.  Also I believe that you need full battens for batt cars to work properly.  I would recommend if you are considering batt cars instead of slides, you look at Antal. They are very robust, stack lower than Harken and are lighter in weight.  Less weight means easier to raise.  We have had all Tides and both brands of batt cars and I prefer the Antal.  When it is time to drop the main (we have dutchman),  I merely make sure the halyard is clear and can run freely. Next I load the cabin top winch with the main halyard and the open the clutch.  When I am ready I remove the halyard from the winch quickly and watch it run and make sure it doesn’t hang up. It drops like a rock!



Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:11 AM, dpball1@... wrote:



Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal 





Charlie McMillan
 

Allison,
Tom Anderson, head rigger at Hathaway Reiser & Raymond sailmakers in Stamford, alas they are no more. Tom is fantastic, he made my custom SS bow roller and after much hesitation, did the milling work on my gooseneck to allow the reefing lines to head upwards allowing reefing from the cockpit. It took me several months to convince him it would work but he did a great job. I think he did the same to at least 6 other boats after Skye.
Tom is still around and sails out of Rowayton Ct I believe.

Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, CT 06880
203-227-8696 o
203-291-9764 m

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:35 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

 Charlie, I love the Spectra for the Dutchman.  It saved our bacon when we blew up the gooseneck offshore.  Did you do this yourself or did a local rigger do it?  Kingfisher came from CT with this system in place so I was wondering if it was the same person.


Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
allison@...
Cell: 510.912.5800
Fax: 510.860.4640

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On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:31 AM, Charlie McMillan <charlie@...> wrote:

Allison,

Thanks for the instruction, much appreciated. With limited sailing this past season, we only had the new sail out on the water 4 times. 

Training session on the calendar for March 2021!


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:23 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

Charlie we took a shortcut to train our cruiselam main.  We raised and lowered it about 12 times and each time we dropped it we gasketed it tightly. After that it has been perfect!  

Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Charlie McMillan <charlie@...> wrote:

 I have the same system as Allison on Skye and love its simplicity and nearly flawless execution. I’m currently “training” the new 3Di mainsail to fold neatly when dropped but based on the past main, it should do the same sometime mid season next year. I went for the Harken cars as suggested from North and a match to the past main cars. Dutchman with Spectra lines works incredibly well.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Dec 1, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Allison Lehman via groups.io <allisonleh@...> wrote:

The other thing to think about is how with you mainsail stacks on the boom.  Batt cars  are much taller than  slides.  This may require a new sail cover.  Also I believe that you need full battens for batt cars to work properly.  I would recommend if you are considering batt cars instead of slides, you look at Antal. They are very robust, stack lower than Harken and are lighter in weight.  Less weight means easier to raise.  We have had all Tides and both brands of batt cars and I prefer the Antal.  When it is time to drop the main (we have dutchman),  I merely make sure the halyard is clear and can run freely. Next I load the cabin top winch with the main halyard and the open the clutch.  When I am ready I remove the halyard from the winch quickly and watch it run and make sure it doesn’t hang up. It drops like a rock!



Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Dec 1, 2020, at 12:11 AM, dpball1@... wrote:



Deciding between the Harken Battcar system and Tide Marine Strong Track comes down to cost and where you sail.   

The Strong Track is cost effective and adequate for costal sailing. It is approximately 1/2 the cost of the Harken system.  The slides are known to twist and pop off the track causing the main to unzip.  The track is subject to degradation in high UV settings adding to the problem of the slides separating from the track.  If you are a coastal/weekend  sailor this system should be fine for your needs.  


The Battcar system costs nearly $3000 for a S-402. It is very robust with an aluminum track and cars.  If you are sailing offshore, this is the more durable system.   The system is very ‘slippery’ so the main is easily raised and sail drops like a rock.  It also makes it easy to reef a full battened main in boisterous conditions.  


As we sail offshore, we spent the money on the Harken system and are very happy with it. 

David Ball  S-402
s/v Persephone 
Algarve, Portugal