S362 aft cabin leak #362Sabre


Michaellalancette@...
 

Hello everyone, 
On the aft cabin of my 362, there was sign of water leak when I bought the boat. The previous owner mentioned that he replaced the drain scoop and that solved the problem.

Few years after, it started to be wet again when it was raining hard or under way in rough weather. After removing the wooden/fiberglass board on the upper section of the wall, I noticed several sign of water intrusion coming from the toe rail bolts. I retighten them and spread water on deck to make sure the problem was fixed. It turn out there was still water coming from the thru bolt just beside the drain scoop. I noticed there was a part of the hull flange cut, probably from factory to have room for the drain scoop. Because of that hull flange part missing, the leaking bolt is in fact not attached to the hull, but only on the deck flange and the toe rail. As a consequence, it's useless to tighten this bolt for fixing the leak. The water seems to come from the bolt and from the gap from the deck flange and hull flange. 


My question is how can I fix that leak? I solved leaks on hand rails, anchor locker, chain plates and other places where it was only a matter of using marine caulking or butyl tape. But this one, I have no idea on how to proceed. 

Is there anyone that faced the same problem? 

Here are some pictures:  

This one shows another bolt normally going thru hull flange, deck flange and toe rail. 

 

 

This one shows the hull flange cut and the leaky bolt thru deck flange and toe rail only. 


John Kalinowski
 

Get a piece of 1.5 or 2 inch alumimum about 12 inches long at hardware store.

Cut in half so you now have 2 6 inch strips.

Stack them and drill a hole for the bolt in the middle.

Remove nut and washer, insert 2 strips, add washer and nut and tighten.

The 2 strips will move the load along the rest of the flange.

 

Cost less than $10

 

If you really want to ensure it, do steps above but first pull bolt first and wrap some butyl tape around the bolt near the head.  When you tighten the bolt, the butyl tape will seal the opening for next 30 years.

 

john

 

 

 

From: Michaellalancette@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 2:45 PM
To: SabreSailboat@groups.io
Subject: [SabreSailboat] S362 aft cabin leak #362Sabre

 

Hello everyone, 
On the aft cabin of my 362, there was sign of water leak when I bought the boat. The previous owner mentioned that he replaced the drain scoop and that solved the problem.

Few years after, it started to be wet again when it was raining hard or under way in rough weather. After removing the wooden/fiberglass board on the upper section of the wall, I noticed several sign of water intrusion coming from the toe rail bolts. I retighten them and spread water on deck to make sure the problem was fixed. It turn out there was still water coming from the thru bolt just beside the drain scoop. I noticed there was a part of the hull flange cut, probably from factory to have room for the drain scoop. Because of that hull flange part missing, the leaking bolt is in fact not attached to the hull, but only on the deck flange and the toe rail. As a consequence, it's useless to tighten this bolt for fixing the leak. The water seems to come from the bolt and from the gap from the deck flange and hull flange. 


My question is how can I fix that leak? I solved leaks on hand rails, anchor locker, chain plates and other places where it was only a matter of using marine caulking or butyl tape. But this one, I have no idea on how to proceed. 

Is there anyone that faced the same problem? 

Here are some pictures:  

This one shows another bolt normally going thru hull flange, deck flange and toe rail. 

 

 

This one shows the hull flange cut and the leaky bolt thru deck flange and toe rail only. 

 


Michaellalancette@...
 

John, thanks a lot for the advices, I'll definitely consider that on my final solution. 


Brian, thanks for your reply. My cushions spent a lot of time drying on deck. I won't wast time, money and effort to try to remove the toe rail if it didn't work for you.

I just received an email from Glen Chapman at Sabre: 

"That stbd aft joint was a challenge on the 362 because of the deck drain, and also that bulkhead right in front of the drain. We did have to notch out the hull flange in order to clear the drain fitting. In our build we tried to add additional 3M5200 adhesive in that joint area to make it water tight.

 

I think the best approach would be to make sure that area is well dried out, and then try to pack and seal that area w/ an epoxy filler. Or you could use some “fast cure” 3M5200."

It seems to be a known problem on this era of S362. I'll let you know when I find a solution that work. 


Michael Lalancette 
S/V Rosy Bain - S362 #148


Roger Kuebel 362#150
 

Michael,

If you are going to use John's solution, see if there is room for using aluminum channel stock (see attached) as it won't bend as much.  Also, you might try a combined approach, where you fill in the notched out flange with epoxy filler, then bolt the aluminum over the top, and perhaps even extending the aluminum to the other bolt so that you have even pressure across the entire filled-in notch.

I am heading down to our boat tomorrow, and I'm going to check for signs of leaking, as ours was only two after yours.

Roger Kuebel
Restless
362#150


David Short, SV One Timer, 1997 362, Mt Desert, ME
 

1.  As a 362 owner 350 miles away from his boat; is this accessed only by removal of the quarterberth outboard wall/liner?  Or is it visible from the tortuously small compartment under the propane locker?
I have cabinets along that liner, not sure if that is true of all or whether it was an option.  There is a section of liner above the cabinets.
I do not evidence of a leak, yet.  Sure would like not to have one.
2.  Port side does not have same condition?
3.  Be careful with epoxy filler.  It has probably caused as many problems as it has solved.  It can be a great way to trap moisture.


Roger Kuebel 362#150
 

Michel,
I agree with Dave about trapping moisture, which is why Glen said to make sure that area is well dried out.  I recommend running a dehumidifier in the quarterberth for a couple weeks after covering or shrink wrapping.

Dave,
I will take a look at the port side tomorrow when I'm on the boat and report back.


David Short, SV One Timer, 1997 362, Mt Desert, ME
 

The other point about trapping moisture is applying and interior patch to an exterior ingress.  Water still coming in, just not getting as far & where is it sitting?  If it's under the toerail, that will rear its head in a few years

On 11/19/2020 10:36 AM, Rajwah 362#150 wrote:
Michel,
I agree with Dave about trapping moisture, which is why Glen said to make sure that area is well dried out.  I recommend running a dehumidifier in the quarterberth for a couple weeks after covering or shrink wrapping.

Dave,
I will take a look at the port side tomorrow when I'm on the boat and report back.

--

Dave Short

dhs.short@...

 


Joe Kosheff
 

Michael, a leak in the same area on my 362-261 was due to a cracked deck drain fitting. Sabre's advice to access fitting was a) remove propane locker, or b) a small mechanic may be able to reach it. The latter worked.

Joe Kosheff


-----Original Message-----
From: Michaellalancette@...
To: SabreSailboat@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2020 4:15 am
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] S362 aft cabin leak #362Sabre

John, thanks a lot for the advices, I'll definitely consider that on my final solution. 

Brian, thanks for your reply. My cushions spent a lot of time drying on deck. I won't wast time, money and effort to try to remove the toe rail if it didn't work for you.
I just received an email from Glen Chapman at Sabre: 
"That stbd aft joint was a challenge on the 362 because of the deck drain, and also that bulkhead right in front of the drain. We did have to notch out the hull flange in order to clear the drain fitting. In our build we tried to add additional 3M5200 adhesive in that joint area to make it water tight.
 
I think the best approach would be to make sure that area is well dried out, and then try to pack and seal that area w/ an epoxy filler. Or you could use some “fast cure” 3M5200."

It seems to be a known problem on this era of S362. I'll let you know when I find a solution that work. 

Michael Lalancette 
S/V Rosy Bain - S362 #148


Michaellalancette@...
 

Dave, 
I have no cabinets, only a shelve. I can see the faulty bolt with the wall liner in place and if I had looked carefully before removing the wall liner, I could have seen de gap in the flange. That being said, in my case, removing the wall liner was not very long and difficult, +-20 screws to remove. 
I don't have the tortuously small compartment under the propane locker, but I don't think you would see anything from there, the cut starts around the bulkhead inside the aft cabin. 

If I was you, I would look for traces of water leaks, if none I would not bother, even if you have the hull flange cut it doesn't mean it will leak. 

I didn't look yet at port side since if leaking it doesn't have much consequence being on the lazarette.

Yes, trapping moisture is not good, it's why I'm reluctant trying to fix a leak from the inside. However, to fix it from the outside seems to be a way bigger project! 

 


Michaellalancette@...
 

Thank you Roger for the advises. I'll consider using the aluminum channel stock.

Joe, thanks for sharing, I wish it was only the drain fitting. In my case it has been replaced before I bought the boat, and it's still in good condition. I changed the port one that was leaking. Indeed, you need to be tiny to work from that aft locker!! 


Michaellalancette@...
 

I just got out of the heated cabin to brave the cold and rain to have a look at port side. It seems I have the same hull flange gape.. and a fair leak at the bolt in the gap as well as two others. More boat work for tomorrow! 

So Dave, I guess you would not have to remove your cabinet on the starboard side, you could just look from the lazarette on the port side to know if you have the hull flange cut and leaky bolts. 


Michael Lalancette
S/V Rosy Bain - S362 - HN148


David Short, SV One Timer, 1997 362, Mt Desert, ME
 

thx for the update

On 11/19/2020 2:27 PM, Michaellalancette@... wrote:

I just got out of the heated cabin to brave the cold and rain to have a look at port side. It seems I have the same hull flange gape.. and a fair leak at the bolt in the gap as well as two others. More boat work for tomorrow! 

So Dave, I guess you would not have to remove your cabinet on the starboard side, you could just look from the lazarette on the port side to know if you have the hull flange cut and leaky bolts. 


Michael Lalancette
S/V Rosy Bain - S362 - HN148


--

Dave Short

dhs.short@...

 


Roger Kuebel 362#150
 

As promised, attached are two photos showing the cut-out on the port side.  Appears that the bolts are still going thru the hull flange.  Also, appears that cut-out was larger than necessary :-(

Roger Kuebel
Restless
S362#150
Buzzards Bay


Michaellalancette@...
 

Good news for you Roger! Interesting to see how they slightly changed the cut to have the bolt on the hull flange, only two hull number later! The cut on mine is even larger for no reasons, with the bolt holding nothing. 

Michael
S/V a Rosy Bain - S362 #148