Topics

Mast step disease - all models?


Jeff Bartlett
 

Did Sabre ever re-engineer the mast steps to avoid the dreaded disease?  Maybe I’m too optimistic, but it seems possible that someone recognized that the original method had a flaw, and that at some point they came up with a new solution to support the base of the mast.

Are there any models or years which the possibility of rot has been engineered out?

jeff


Allison Lehman
 

Starting with the 362 they have a different mast step

Allison Lehman
Swiftsure Yachts
510 912-5800 cell
510 860-4640 fax
allison@...       


On Jun 30, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Jeff Bartlett <Jhbartlett@...> wrote:

Did Sabre ever re-engineer the mast steps to avoid the dreaded disease?  Maybe I’m too optimistic, but it seems possible that someone recognized that the original method had a flaw, and that at some point they came up with a new solution to support the base of the mast.

Are there any models or years which the possibility of rot has been engineered out?

jeff


Nancysails01@...
 

I have a S34 II..this winter I drilled the Limber hole & made it 2x the size.  Appears to be working like a charm.
Nancy


Confidentiality: this e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise me by e-mail and delete this e-mail immediately.


On Jun 30, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Jeff Bartlett <Jhbartlett@...> wrote:

Did Sabre ever re-engineer the mast steps to avoid the dreaded disease?  Maybe I’m too optimistic, but it seems possible that someone recognized that the original method had a flaw, and that at some point they came up with a new solution to support the base of the mast.

Are there any models or years which the possibility of rot has been engineered out?

jeff


Steve Zambroski
 

Jeff   I too had that issue.   I electrically isolated The mast.  I used heavy black tape on the sides of the step and a thin plate of G10 with a hole drilled for drainage that matched the step.  Fingers crossed.  7 years no issues yet.  

Thanks

Steve

On Jun 30, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Nancy Riella <Nancysails01@...> wrote:

I have a S34 II..this winter I drilled the Limber hole & made it 2x the size.  Appears to be working like a charm.
Nancy


Confidentiality: this e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise me by e-mail and delete this e-mail immediately.


On Jun 30, 2020, at 5:40 PM, Jeff Bartlett <Jhbartlett@...> wrote:

Did Sabre ever re-engineer the mast steps to avoid the dreaded disease?  Maybe I’m too optimistic, but it seems possible that someone recognized that the original method had a flaw, and that at some point they came up with a new solution to support the base of the mast.

Are there any models or years which the possibility of rot has been engineered out?

jeff


Matt Quinn, SV Glendi, 1989 Sabre 36, East Falmouth, MA
 

Steve, do you have photos of this repair? I am thinking of using G10 as well this winter to build mine up a bit and add proper drainage.

Thanks.
-Matt 


Marty Cawley
 

I'm just hearing about these issues on this  web site. and having just acq


Marty Cawley
 

I'm just hearing about these issues on this  web site. and having just acquired  my 1983  36 footer  (#188) am very interested in gaining knowledge of the issue and solutions.    As I understand it, water inside the mast works its way down onto the mast step and cannot (or does not drain to the bilge)  Causing possible  rot at the step and cabin sole?  My cabin sole (teak and holly) does show evidence of water damage though even after heavy rains, I don't seem to get much water down the mast into the cabin  (of course, NO water would be better than some)

Please direct me to prior discussion or if someone would be so kind to post some notes here

Marty Cawley  #188   (long Island)


Bennett Kaufman
 

If you have an S36, I'm curious about the hull # and the year. According to my notes, S36s were built from 1985-1990, and ended with hull #106. So a 1983 hull #188 is a unicorn.

ben kaufman, ex-CARACOL (1986 S36 #52)

On Sunday, September 27, 2020, 11:00:47 PM EDT, Marty Cawley <martinjcawley@...> wrote:


I'm just hearing about these issues on this  web site. and having just acquired  my 1983  36 footer  (#188) am very interested in gaining knowledge of the issue and solutions.    As I understand it, water inside the mast works its way down onto the mast step and cannot (or does not drain to the bilge)  Causing possible  rot at the step and cabin sole?  My cabin sole (teak and holly) does show evidence of water damage though even after heavy rains, I don't seem to get much water down the mast into the cabin  (of course, NO water would be better than some)

Please direct me to prior discussion or if someone would be so kind to post some notes here

Marty Cawley  #188   (long Island)

--
S36Caracol


Stephanie
 

Marty please search the Main archive online for mast step repair.  You will see well documented many emails.  Perhaps start with Charlie Macmillan Feb 6 of this year. 


by the way mine is new to me in March of this year. Built in 1987.  
--
Stephanie
Moderator

Sabre 36, #67
Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario


Bentley Collins
 

I want to be sure that Sabre is not thrown under the bus here so I will give some feedback.

Sabre has always recommended dropping the spar for winter storage and many of the boats with this issue have not done that. There was always a limber hole to drain water that enters the spar through halyard sheaves etc, away from the mast step. As several owners have commented herein making sure that the limber hole is clear is essential for the long term health of the mast step.

It would be unfair to state that "all Sabre's have the mast step issue"


Jim Starkey
 

I must disagree.  All three of the mid-size Sabre that suffered the dreaded mast step disease had the mast step box rot internally from an imperfectly sealed (and uninspectable) limbo hole drilled to allow water from the forward bilge to the after bilge.  It is trivial to inspect the top of the mast step box when the mast is out in any case damage from the top would be localized and not spread, as is the norm, to the cabin sole and bulkhead.  It is, indeed, a major design defect in that vintage of Sabres and would probably be covered by an implied warranty had not the “new” Sabre put the original Sabre Corporation to death to extinguish any possible liability issues (this is styled as buying the assets of a corporation rather than buying the corporation itself).

Anyone who thinks that keeping water off the top of the mast step box is kidding themselves.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 9:44 AM Bentley Collins <bentley@...> wrote:
I want to be sure that Sabre is not thrown under the bus here so I will give some feedback.

Sabre has always recommended dropping the spar for winter storage and many of the boats with this issue have not done that. There was always a limber hole to drain water that enters the spar through halyard sheaves etc, away from the mast step. As several owners have commented herein making sure that the limber hole is clear is essential for the long term health of the mast step.

It would be unfair to state that "all Sabre's have the mast step issue"










--
Jim Starkey


Charlie McMillan
 

Correction,

All Sabres should have had a limber hole, there was none on my S36mkII and thus the reason for mast step rot.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Sep 28, 2020, at 9:44 AM, Bentley Collins <bentley@...> wrote:

I want to be sure that Sabre is not thrown under the bus here so I will give some feedback.

Sabre has always recommended dropping the spar for winter storage and many of the boats with this issue have not done that. There was always a limber hole to drain water that enters the spar through halyard sheaves etc, away from the mast step. As several owners have commented herein making sure that the limber hole is clear is essential for the long term health of the mast step.

It would be unfair to state that "all Sabre's have the mast step issue"


Bennett Kaufman
 


What is an "S36mkII"?

ben kaufman, ex-CARACOL, S36 #52

On Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:12:59 AM EDT, Charlie McMillan <charlie@...> wrote:


Correction,

All Sabres should have had a limber hole, there was none on my S36mkII and thus the reason for mast step rot.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com



--
S36Caracol


Bennett Kaufman
 

As a (previous) owner of an S36 that suffered catastrophic mast step failure, I agree completely with Mr. Starkey's comments.

ben kaufman, ex-CARACOL, S36 #52 

On Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:01:07 AM EDT, Jim Starkey <jim@...> wrote:


I must disagree.  All three of the mid-size Sabre that suffered the dreaded mast step disease had the mast step box rot internally from an imperfectly sealed (and uninspectable) limbo hole drilled to allow water from the forward bilge to the after bilge.  It is trivial to inspect the top of the mast step box when the mast is out in any case damage from the top would be localized and not spread, as is the norm, to the cabin sole and bulkhead.  It is, indeed, a major design defect in that vintage of Sabres and would probably be covered by an implied warranty had not the “new” Sabre put the original Sabre Corporation to death to extinguish any possible liability issues (this is styled as buying the assets of a corporation rather than buying the corporation itself).

Anyone who thinks that keeping water off the top of the mast step box is kidding themselves.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 9:44 AM Bentley Collins <bentley@...> wrote:
I want to be sure that Sabre is not thrown under the bus here so I will give some feedback.

Sabre has always recommended dropping the spar for winter storage and many of the boats with this issue have not done that. There was always a limber hole to drain water that enters the spar through halyard sheaves etc, away from the mast step. As several owners have commented herein making sure that the limber hole is clear is essential for the long term health of the mast step.

It would be unfair to state that "all Sabre's have the mast step issue"










--
Jim Starkey

--
S36Caracol


Charlie McMillan
 

2nd Correction S34mkII

Autocorrect again.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com

On Sep 28, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Bennett Kaufman <kaufmanb@...> wrote:


What is an "S36mkII"?

ben kaufman, ex-CARACOL, S36 #52

On Monday, September 28, 2020, 10:12:59 AM EDT, Charlie McMillan <charlie@...> wrote:


Correction,

All Sabres should have had a limber hole, there was none on my S36mkII and thus the reason for mast step rot.


Charlie McMillan

McMillan Group Inc
25 Otter Trail
Westport, Ct  06880
203-227-8696 office
203-291-9764 mobile 
www.mcmillangroup.com



--
S36Caracol


Matt Quinn, SV Glendi, 1989 Sabre 36, East Falmouth, MA
 

This is the thread Stephanie is referencing: https://groups.io/g/SabreSailboat/message/71552

There is also a photo album of a similar repair: https://groups.io/g/SabreSailboat/album?id=111933

Per Jim Starkey's prior advice I am going to drill some test bores this week. My mast step plate has cracked, and I do have evidence of water damage around the step (discolored sole) however a surveyor checked it out a year ago when we bought it. Fingers crossed.


Jim Starkey
 

I hate to say this, but a cracked mast step plate is invariably the first sign of internal rot in the mast step box. The deeper problem is that by that point, rot has probably spread to sole and the main bulkhead.

Unless your surveyor was Gene Barnes (or someone else with extensive Sabre experience), he probably didn’t know what to look for as this problem is exclusive to keel stepped Sabres.

Probably your test borings will come up wet. If they come up dry, will need to think long and hard about the next step.  If you can find a reasonable local Sabre expert, a second opinion might be a good idea.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 1:11 PM Matt Quinn, SV Glendi, 1989 Sabre 36, East Falmouth, MA <quinn.matt@...> wrote:
This is the thread Stephanie is referencing: https://groups.io/g/SabreSailboat/message/71552

There is also a photo album of a similar repair: https://groups.io/g/SabreSailboat/album?id=111933

Per Jim Starkey's prior advice I am going to drill some test bores this week. My mast step plate has cracked, and I do have evidence of water damage around the step (discolored sole) however a surveyor checked it out a year ago when we bought it. Fingers crossed.









--
Jim Starkey


Steve Zambroski
 

I don’t.   The tape Home Depot heavy duty plumbers tape.  

Thanks

Steve

On Sep 28, 2020, at 7:04 AM, Stephanie <Shburgess1207@...> wrote:



Marty please search the Main archive online for mast step repair.  You will see well documented many emails.  Perhaps start with Charlie Macmillan Feb 6 of this year. 


by the way mine is new to me in March of this year. Built in 1987.  
--
Stephanie
Moderator

Sabre 36, #67
Sabre 28-2, #289
Wilson Harbor, NY Lake Ontario