Topics

Sabre Rot


kenhopson@...
 

Hi,


We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?


Thanks


Ken Hopson


Harry Keith
 

Welcome to the group.  A Sabre (of any size) is a wonderful boat.
 
That is the dreaded mast step disease, the Achilles Heel of Sabres.  It's common, and not overly easy to fix.  The issue is the mast step does not drain well, and it collects water.  Since it is made of marine plywood, which performs very poorly in water, it rots.  And there you go.
 
If you want to see this repair (and far more -- it was bad) on a '79 S34-I, stroll through this site:
 
Harry
Rantum Scoot
'79 S34-I #063
Mill Creek, Annapolis

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 7:38 AM, kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:
 

Hi,


We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?


Thanks


Ken Hopson



Bennett Kaufman
 

The 36 is a good old traditional-style boat that sails well. I have a 1986 version, hull #52. If yours is a 1990 boat, it is one of the last 36's built--do you know the hull number? Major change over the last years was the changeover from CNG to propane as the cooking fuel, which occurred around 1987 or so, I think hulls 56 and above. There may have been some other changes, such as deletion of the cb option.

As far as the bulkhead and cabin sole rot, I'm afraid that is not uncommon in Sabres of that era. There is a limber hole that runs through the cross-member on which the mast step sits that is supposed to route any water that enters the mast out to the bilge. This hole can easily get plugged, allowing water to pool inside the mast, leading to rot in nearby structures. The limber hole is not mentioned in the Owner's Manual, although it is shown in an illustration. At the start of every season (and probably when the boat is laid up for the winter, if the mast is left up), the owner should take a thick flexible wire and run it through the limber hole to make sure it is clear. I did so when I bought my boat--having been told of the limber hole by the surveyor--and some water did run out. I have not had any problem since, and I do check during the season to make sure that rainwater is flowing out the hole into the bilge.

Do not be too disturbed by Harry's comments--not to minimize it, but he undertook a major rebuild that may or may not have been totally warranted--kinda like cutting off a hand to cure a hangnail. In any event, if you are really interested in the boat (or any boat), have a good surveyor look closely at that (and any) problem and get an informed and knowledgeable assessment of the extent and costs of any fixes.

ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)



From: "kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat]"
To: Sabresailboat@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 7:38 AM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Sabre Rot

 
Hi,

We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?

Thanks

Ken Hopson



Jim Starkey
 

You've heard both opinions of the cause and somethings about the repair.

Unless you are both handy with wood and have lots of spare time, it's a boatyard repair.  Plan $8K to $12K and most of a winter.  On plus side, most of the cost of the repair goes into the boat.  Conversely, tge cost of the repair, even if no damage is evident, comes off the value of the boat.

I had S36 hull #56 new frm the factory for 22 years.  I had the Dreaded Mast Step Disease as did a couple of other club members.  I had it fixed and never regretted it (the best repair is to rip out a lot of sole, build a new box out of prefab fibreglass sheet, repair the bulkhead and reinforce with a couple of stainless braces, and rebuild the sole).

Your a bit lucky in that the damage is evident.  An otherwise apparently pristine boat could fool anyone but a experienced, Sabre savy surveyer.

My advice is to look for a 36 that has been repaired.  If you can't find one, get a deep discount (though it maybe already reflected in the asking price), and get a professional repair unless you're absolutely confident that you have the skills and time to do it right.

The 36 is a wonderful boat.  If it has the original Headmate Jr., plan to put in a Raritan PH-II.  We'll tell you about the little plastic elbow under the side deck later.

Jim Starkey


On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:38 AM, kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:

 

Hi,


We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?


Thanks


Ken Hopson


Harry Keith
 

Ben is right that I probably went further than "required."  But I have permanently solved a lot of issues in the bilge!
 
But seriously, regardless of what work is required on the boat you are looking at, there is a lot of photographic information on that web site.
 
Harry

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Bennett Kaufman kaufmanb@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:
 

The 36 is a good old traditional-style boat that sails well. I have a 1986 version, hull #52. If yours is a 1990 boat, it is one of the last 36's built--do you know the hull number? Major change over the last years was the changeover from CNG to propane as the cooking fuel, which occurred around 1987 or so, I think hulls 56 and above. There may have been some other changes, such as deletion of the cb option.

As far as the bulkhead and cabin sole rot, I'm afraid that is not uncommon in Sabres of that era. There is a limber hole that runs through the cross-member on which the mast step sits that is supposed to route any water that enters the mast out to the bilge. This hole can easily get plugged, allowing water to pool inside the mast, leading to rot in nearby structures. The limber hole is not mentioned in the Owner's Manual, although it is shown in an illustration. At the start of every season (and probably when the boat is laid up for the winter, if the mast is left up), the owner should take a thick flexible wire and run it through the limber hole to make sure it is clear. I did so when I bought my boat--having been told of the limber hole by the surveyor--and some water did run out. I have not had any problem since, and I do check during the season to make sure that rainwater is flowing out the hole into the bilge.

Do not be too disturbed by Harry's comments--not to minimize it, but he undertook a major rebuild that may or may not have been totally warranted--kinda like cutting off a hand to cure a hangnail. In any event, if you are really interested in the boat (or any boat), have a good surveyor look closely at that (and any) problem and get an informed and knowledgeable assessment of the extent and costs of any fixes.

ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)


From: "kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat]" <Sabresailboat@...>
To: Sabresailboat@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 7:38 AM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Sabre Rot

 
Hi,

We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?

Thanks

Ken Hopson




David Lochner
 

Ken,

While you’re looking at the boat, check the floor timbers. They are plywood wrapped in fiberglass. The bottom of the floor timbers are not sealed, thus allowing water to enter the wood and rot it from the inside out.  This is a problem if the bilge is left with lots of water in it, not a problem if the bilge was kept pretty dry. Lift the floor boards, and reach under the floor timber into the limber hole. You’ll be able to feel the wood and tell if it reasonably solid or rotted. Be sure to have your surveyor check the moisture levels in the floor timbers.

Dave





On Apr 28, 2015, at 9:31 AM, Harry K sailor11767@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:


Ben is right that I probably went further than "required."  But I have permanently solved a lot of issues in the bilge!
 
But seriously, regardless of what work is required on the boat you are looking at, there is a lot of photographic information on that web site.
 
Harry

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Bennett Kaufman kaufmanb@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:
 

The 36 is a good old traditional-style boat that sails well. I have a 1986 version, hull #52. If yours is a 1990 boat, it is one of the last 36's built--do you know the hull number? Major change over the last years was the changeover from CNG to propane as the cooking fuel, which occurred around 1987 or so, I think hulls 56 and above. There may have been some other changes, such as deletion of the cb option.

As far as the bulkhead and cabin sole rot, I'm afraid that is not uncommon in Sabres of that era. There is a limber hole that runs through the cross-member on which the mast step sits that is supposed to route any water that enters the mast out to the bilge. This hole can easily get plugged, allowing water to pool inside the mast, leading to rot in nearby structures. The limber hole is not mentioned in the Owner's Manual, although it is shown in an illustration. At the start of every season (and probably when the boat is laid up for the winter, if the mast is left up), the owner should take a thick flexible wire and run it through the limber hole to make sure it is clear. I did so when I bought my boat--having been told of the limber hole by the surveyor--and some water did run out. I have not had any problem since, and I do check during the season to make sure that rainwater is flowing out the hole into the bilge.

Do not be too disturbed by Harry's comments--not to minimize it, but he undertook a major rebuild that may or may not have been totally warranted--kinda like cutting off a hand to cure a hangnail. In any event, if you are really interested in the boat (or any boat), have a good surveyor look closely at that (and any) problem and get an informed and knowledgeable assessment of the extent and costs of any fixes.

ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)


From: "kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat]" <Sabresailboat@...>
To: Sabresailboat@... 
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 7:38 AM
Subject: [SabreSailboat] Sabre Rot

 
Hi,
We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?
Thanks
Ken Hopson








David Popken
 

Ken,

We just had our 38MKI out for a bottom job, re-rigging and mast work.  Our step area is damaged by the same condition, inadequate drainage due to in my opinion, a design flaw.  That tiny groove under the mast step base is was too small and easily plugged up.  Even then, there is still a minor amount of water that runs down the inside mast wall and does not collect inside the mast step because it has a collar that fits inside the mast, but runs out onto the top and then the water can flow into the surrounding cabin sole and bulkhead, simply because there was not a dedicated path to the bilge for the water.  I contacted Glen Chaplin at Sabre regarding this condition, and he came up with a neat fix for the first issue, but it cannot be done without the mast out of the boat.  With the mast step removed, I used a 5/8" spade bit to drill the angled hole from mast base to bilge, then inserted a 1/2" cpvc sleeve coated with West System, making sure that each end was sealed with epoxy.  I went one step further, and made a frame out of 1/2" x 3/4" aluminum angle that nests around the mast step base and was then caulked in place, creating a lip that is slightly higher than the mast base flange.  I will send a photo of that assembly later.  The stern most piece was notched to allow any collected water to flow into the bilge.  Now, any water that accumulates from either a leaky mast boot or running down the inside of the mast wall will be contained, and the balance will flow freely in the cpvc drain.  The cabin sole and bulkhead still need repairing, but at least I am dry and should continue to be so from here forward.

David

On 4/28/2015 6:38 AM, kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat] wrote:
 

Hi,


We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?


Thanks


Ken Hopson



pbfein
 

I have hull #99 launched in summer 89' but HIN'd as a 1990.  It has CNG and early 362s have CNG so I think the change to propane was later.

The mast step design is slightly different in that there is a surface channel (no holes) below the aluminum step where the water drained aft into the bilge.  The problem was that water from the forward port corner of the step drained over the head side and rotted out the shower support.  

I replaced the support and the sole inside of the head.  I then used west system and filler to seal the step with dams to prevent water from escaping outside of the channel.  I then sanded and painted with polyurethane paint to match the deep red.

Test bores showed the beam to be dry.  I documented the project in the gallery.

The 36 is special boat.  There is no 36' production boat in that price range that looks as good, has a hand built teak interior and sails as well with good speed.  Get the price down, have the repair done and you will never look back.

Best of Luck,
Peter



Bennett Kaufman
 

There is (was?) another 36 owner on the net with a boat whose hull number I think was in the upper 50s or lo 60s that had propane from the factory. The 362 owners I know locally all have propane, but I don't know about other 362 owners on the net. I'm not suree if there was a time when either CNG or propane was a an option for people who ordered new boats, but I was under the impression that any boat built after about 1988 or so was outfitted for propane (i.e., the gas locker design was changed).

I know that switching from CNG to propane can be an expensive retrofit (modifying the gas locker), and usually requires a new stove, because the the kits of parts to change the jets, etc., are no longer available. 

Anyone know the real timeline for the changeover?

ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)




From: "pbfein@... [Sabresailboat]"
To: Sabresailboat@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Sabre Rot

 
I have hull #99 launched in summer 89' but HIN'd as a 1990.  It has CNG and early 362s have CNG so I think the change to propane was later.

The mast step design is slightly different in that there is a surface channel (no holes) below the aluminum step where the water drained aft into the bilge.  The problem was that water from the forward port corner of the step drained over the head side and rotted out the shower support.  

I replaced the support and the sole inside of the head.  I then used west system and filler to seal the step with dams to prevent water from escaping outside of the channel.  I then sanded and painted with polyurethane paint to match the deep red.

Test bores showed the beam to be dry.  I documented the project in the gallery.

The 36 is special boat.  There is no 36' production boat in that price range that looks as good, has a hand built teak interior and sails as well with good speed.  Get the price down, have the repair done and you will never look back.

Best of Luck,
Peter





Jim Starkey
 

Absolutely no way.  I had the discussion at the factor when I bought our 36 in 1984.  Their insurance carrier forbid propane.  Also, at the time, Sabre wasn't the least bit interested in anything non-standard.  We wanted an Espar, for example.  No problem, said Sabre, as long as we were willing to pay the full engineer cost fit into their production line as a full option, then pay the option cost as well.

Switching to used to be relatively cheap and easy as long as a) you had a post-1984 gas locker (vented top and bottom) and Seaward was selling conversion kits for the stove.  Conversion now requires a new stove (the original stove would be getting long in tooth anyway) and maybe a new gas lock (a major hassle).

The conversion requires replacing the hose and the regulator, buying a couple of 6 lb tanks, assuming the gas locker and store problems are resolved.


On Tuesday, April 28, 2015, Bennett Kaufman kaufmanb@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:
 

There is (was?) another 36 owner on the net with a boat whose hull number I think was in the upper 50s or lo 60s that had propane from the factory. The 362 owners I know locally all have propane, but I don't know about other 362 owners on the net. I'm not suree if there was a time when either CNG or propane was a an option for people who ordered new boats, but I was under the impression that any boat built after about 1988 or so was outfitted for propane (i.e., the gas locker design was changed).

I know that switching from CNG to propane can be an expensive retrofit (modifying the gas locker), and usually requires a new stove, because the the kits of parts to change the jets, etc., are no longer available. 

Anyone know the real timeline for the changeover?

ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)




From: "pbfein@... [Sabresailboat]" <Sabresailboat@...>
To: Sabresailboat@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Sabre Rot

 
I have hull #99 launched in summer 89' but HIN'd as a 1990.  It has CNG and early 362s have CNG so I think the change to propane was later.

The mast step design is slightly different in that there is a surface channel (no holes) below the aluminum step where the water drained aft into the bilge.  The problem was that water from the forward port corner of the step drained over the head side and rotted out the shower support.  

I replaced the support and the sole inside of the head.  I then used west system and filler to seal the step with dams to prevent water from escaping outside of the channel.  I then sanded and painted with polyurethane paint to match the deep red.

Test bores showed the beam to be dry.  I documented the project in the gallery.

The 36 is special boat.  There is no 36' production boat in that price range that looks as good, has a hand built teak interior and sails as well with good speed.  Get the price down, have the repair done and you will never look back.

Best of Luck,
Peter






--
Jim Starkey


Shawn Fogg
 

Jim,

"Absolutely no way.  I had the discussion at the factor when I bought our 36 in 1984.  Their insurance carrier forbid propane."

Really? My 1980 S28 had propane and the install of the stove and propane locker looked like it was a factory install. I will have to look closer next time I am at the boat. I ended up pulling the stove and putting in an Origo.

Shawn 


Bob L <ela_ted@...>
 

it depends on how much time you have, how much your willing to spend. My restoration sabre is a 1977 hull # 7,  I am repairing all the typical symptoms of a sabre but in the end it's weather you want the boat or not. I estimate that I will have in excess of 2,000 hours at 50,00 dollars per hour = 100,000.00 I am enjoying my project and looking forward to her launching but I will never see the added value of my sweat equity but  I will be sailing one fine boat




On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 9:34 AM, "Jim Starkey jim@... [Sabresailboat]" wrote:


 
You've heard both opinions of the cause and somethings about the repair.

Unless you are both handy with wood and have lots of spare time, it's a boatyard repair.  Plan $8K to $12K and most of a winter.  On plus side, most of the cost of the repair goes into the boat.  Conversely, tge cost of the repair, even if no damage is evident, comes off the value of the boat.

I had S36 hull #56 new frm the factory for 22 years.  I had the Dreaded Mast Step Disease as did a couple of other club members.  I had it fixed and never regretted it (the best repair is to rip out a lot of sole, build a new box out of prefab fibreglass sheet, repair the bulkhead and reinforce with a couple of stainless braces, and rebuild the sole).

Your a bit lucky in that the damage is evident.  An otherwise apparently pristine boat could fool anyone but a experienced, Sabre savy surveyer.

My advice is to look for a 36 that has been repaired.  If you can't find one, get a deep discount (though it maybe already reflected in the asking price), and get a professional repair unless you're absolutely confident that you have the skills and time to do it right.

The 36 is a wonderful boat.  If it has the original Headmate Jr., plan to put in a Raritan PH-II.  We'll tell you about the little plastic elbow under the side deck later.

Jim Starkey


On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:38 AM, kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:

 
Hi,

We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?

Thanks

Ken Hopson



Jim Starkey
 

You have to understand the mindset of Roger Hewson.  He built production boats, not custom or semi-custom boats.

We wanted a Alpha autopilot.  Nope, Autohelm or none at all.

We wanted a flag blue hull.  Nope, either Sabre blue or take it in white and have it painted after delivery (even Sabre blue was an extra cost option -- dark hulls show scratches that white hulls don't).  

My wife wanted a non-Sabre fabric available from the shop that made Sabre cushions but not from Sabre.  Sabre said no way.  Our dealer (Parker Harrison, now of New Wave) ordered the boat without cushions and ordered custom cushion from Sabre's contractor.

I suggest you try and find a Sabre brochure list propane as an option before New Sabre took over operations.

Later, in death thoes, Sabre would agree to almost anything, but that was much later.

I would be astonished with a 1980 factory installed propane.  There are various shops that did top notch after market work (Sabre kinda created that market). Ocean Options installed our Espar.  The only hint that it wasn't factory is that the factory didn't offer it.

Hewson had a vision of quality, aesthetics, and economics.  Worked well until torpedoed by the luxury tax, which did in a dozen boat companies, a half dozen airplane companies, and only raised a couple of hundred thousand bucks for the Fed.  Dumb idea, not badly thought out, but not thought out at all.

But I digress, very happy to be not sinking.

Jim Starkey


On Apr 28, 2015, at 6:18 PM, s_fogg@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:

 

Jim,


"Absolutely no way.  I had the discussion at the factor when I bought our 36 in 1984.  Their insurance carrier forbid propane."

Really? My 1980 S28 had propane and the install of the stove and propane locker looked like it was a factory install. I will have to look closer next time I am at the boat. I ended up pulling the stove and putting in an Origo.

Shawn 


Daniel Trainor <dptrainor@...>
 

Good for you!   That's a good thing!


On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:32 PM, Bob L ela_ted@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:

 

it depends on how much time you have, how much your willing to spend. My restoration sabre is a 1977 hull # 7,  I am repairing all the typical symptoms of a sabre but in the end it's weather you want the boat or not. I estimate that I will have in excess of 2,000 hours at 50,00 dollars per hour = 100,000.00 I am enjoying my project and looking forward to her launching but I will never see the added value of my sweat equity but  I will be sailing one fine boat




On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 9:34 AM, "Jim Starkey jim@... [Sabresailboat]" <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:


 
You've heard both opinions of the cause and somethings about the repair.

Unless you are both handy with wood and have lots of spare time, it's a boatyard repair.  Plan $8K to $12K and most of a winter.  On plus side, most of the cost of the repair goes into the boat.  Conversely, tge cost of the repair, even if no damage is evident, comes off the value of the boat.

I had S36 hull #56 new frm the factory for 22 years.  I had the Dreaded Mast Step Disease as did a couple of other club members.  I had it fixed and never regretted it (the best repair is to rip out a lot of sole, build a new box out of prefab fibreglass sheet, repair the bulkhead and reinforce with a couple of stainless braces, and rebuild the sole).

Your a bit lucky in that the damage is evident.  An otherwise apparently pristine boat could fool anyone but a experienced, Sabre savy surveyer.

My advice is to look for a 36 that has been repaired.  If you can't find one, get a deep discount (though it maybe already reflected in the asking price), and get a professional repair unless you're absolutely confident that you have the skills and time to do it right.

The 36 is a wonderful boat.  If it has the original Headmate Jr., plan to put in a Raritan PH-II.  We'll tell you about the little plastic elbow under the side deck later.

Jim Starkey


On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:38 AM, kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:

 
Hi,

We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?

Thanks

Ken Hopson



Kenneth Hopson <kenhopson@...>
 

The boat we are looking at has cng


On Apr 28, 2015, at 12:49 PM, James Starkey jim@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:

 

Absolutely no way.  I had the discussion at the factor when I bought our 36 in 1984.  Their insurance carrier forbid propane.  Also, at the time, Sabre wasn't the least bit interested in anything non-standard.  We wanted an Espar, for example.  No problem, said Sabre, as long as we were willing to pay the full engineer cost fit into their production line as a full option, then pay the option cost as well.


Switching to used to be relatively cheap and easy as long as a) you had a post-1984 gas locker (vented top and bottom) and Seaward was selling conversion kits for the stove.  Conversion now requires a new stove (the original stove would be getting long in tooth anyway) and maybe a new gas lock (a major hassle).

The conversion requires replacing the hose and the regulator, buying a couple of 6 lb tanks, assuming the gas locker and store problems are resolved.

On Tuesday, April 28, 2015, Bennett Kaufman kaufmanb@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:
 

There is (was?) another 36 owner on the net with a boat whose hull number I think was in the upper 50s or lo 60s that had propane from the factory. The 362 owners I know locally all have propane, but I don't know about other 362 owners on the net. I'm not suree if there was a time when either CNG or propane was a an option for people who ordered new boats, but I was under the impression that any boat built after about 1988 or so was outfitted for propane (i.e., the gas locker design was changed).

I know that switching from CNG to propane can be an expensive retrofit (modifying the gas locker), and usually requires a new stove, because the the kits of parts to change the jets, etc., are no longer available. 

Anyone know the real timeline for the changeover?

ben kaufman, CARACOL (S36 #52)




From: "pbfein@... [Sabresailboat]" <Sabresailboat@...>
To: Sabresailboat@...
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [SabreSailboat] Sabre Rot

 
I have hull #99 launched in summer 89' but HIN'd as a 1990.  It has CNG and early 362s have CNG so I think the change to propane was later.

The mast step design is slightly different in that there is a surface channel (no holes) below the aluminum step where the water drained aft into the bilge.  The problem was that water from the forward port corner of the step drained over the head side and rotted out the shower support.  

I replaced the support and the sole inside of the head.  I then used west system and filler to seal the step with dams to prevent water from escaping outside of the channel.  I then sanded and painted with polyurethane paint to match the deep red.

Test bores showed the beam to be dry.  I documented the project in the gallery.

The 36 is special boat.  There is no 36' production boat in that price range that looks as good, has a hand built teak interior and sails as well with good speed.  Get the price down, have the repair done and you will never look back.

Best of Luck,
Peter






--
Jim Starkey


LauraJaneNM <laurajanenm@...>
 

Hello fellow Sabre owners.

I am finding this group to be very helpful. Thank you all for your posts. I am learning  lot.
I am refitting a 1983 Sabre 34 Mk 1 in Wilmington, NC.
HIN is HWS34203M38H.
I believe her hull # is 203.

I am concerned about rot and took a look at the mast step from the forward cabin sole hatch and am enclosing photos. I hope they aren’t too big.
There is no forward cleat for the sole hatch. It looks like a fiberglassed board was placed there and the cleat not reinstalled, causing me to wonder if the rot had previously been addressed, but I would like to know more.Any opinions or insights?


LauraJaneNM <laurajanenm@...>
 

I forgot to mention the current mast cover on the coach house roof leaks, so water enters the vessel in the rain.


Jim Starkey
 

It might have been evident from the comments that not all Sabres had cleats under the floor boards.  Personally, I had never heard of them before.  I wouldn't be concerned in the least.

Incidentally, the first visible symptom of Dreaded Mast Step Disease is that the mast step casting cracks as the mast step box deforms while rotting.  If the casting is fine, you may have dodged the bullet.

The definitive test is a test boring through the mast step box.  For a purchase survey, this makes sense if the owner is willing.  For your own boat, why bother?  If you have a problem it will be evident in due course.


On Wednesday, April 29, 2015, LauraJaneNM laurajanenm@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:
 

Hello fellow Sabre owners.


I am finding this group to be very helpful. Thank you all for your posts. I am learning  lot.
I am refitting a 1983 Sabre 34 Mk 1 in Wilmington, NC.
HIN is HWS34203M38H.
I believe her hull # is 203.

I am concerned about rot and took a look at the mast step from the forward cabin sole hatch and am enclosing photos. I hope they aren’t too big.
There is no forward cleat for the sole hatch. It looks like a fiberglassed board was placed there and the cleat not reinstalled, causing me to wonder if the rot had previously been addressed, but I would like to know more.Any opinions or insights?



--
Jim Starkey


Bob L <ela_ted@...>
 

if you have the mast step issues it probably continues all the way to the engine, moisture gets trapped and delaminates the plywood that the teak and holly are glued to. the photo is a 1977 MK1



On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 9:47 PM, "Daniel Trainor dptrainor@... [Sabresailboat]" wrote:


 
Good for you!   That's a good thing!


On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:32 PM, Bob L ela_ted@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:

 
it depends on how much time you have, how much your willing to spend. My restoration sabre is a 1977 hull # 7,  I am repairing all the typical symptoms of a sabre but in the end it's weather you want the boat or not. I estimate that I will have in excess of 2,000 hours at 50,00 dollars per hour = 100,000.00 I am enjoying my project and looking forward to her launching but I will never see the added value of my sweat equity but  I will be sailing one fine boat




On Tuesday, April 28, 2015 9:34 AM, "Jim Starkey jim@... [Sabresailboat]" <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:


 
You've heard both opinions of the cause and somethings about the repair.

Unless you are both handy with wood and have lots of spare time, it's a boatyard repair.  Plan $8K to $12K and most of a winter.  On plus side, most of the cost of the repair goes into the boat.  Conversely, tge cost of the repair, even if no damage is evident, comes off the value of the boat.

I had S36 hull #56 new frm the factory for 22 years.  I had the Dreaded Mast Step Disease as did a couple of other club members.  I had it fixed and never regretted it (the best repair is to rip out a lot of sole, build a new box out of prefab fibreglass sheet, repair the bulkhead and reinforce with a couple of stainless braces, and rebuild the sole).

Your a bit lucky in that the damage is evident.  An otherwise apparently pristine boat could fool anyone but a experienced, Sabre savy surveyer.

My advice is to look for a 36 that has been repaired.  If you can't find one, get a deep discount (though it maybe already reflected in the asking price), and get a professional repair unless you're absolutely confident that you have the skills and time to do it right.

The 36 is a wonderful boat.  If it has the original Headmate Jr., plan to put in a Raritan PH-II.  We'll tell you about the little plastic elbow under the side deck later.

Jim Starkey


On Apr 28, 2015, at 7:38 AM, kenhopson@... [Sabresailboat] <Sabresailboat@...> wrote:

 
Hi,

We are looking at a 1990 Sabre 36 to buy, that has some rot in the bulkhead in the head and the floorboards aft of the head and around the mast. Is this common and is there a fix?

Thanks

Ken Hopson





Philip Horn <pj@...>
 

Bob, just saw your cabin sole deconstruction in the photo section. I f you haven't already, take a close look at the floors (supports) before you put down the new sole.
Chances are they're also water logged/rotted. 
Phil Horn