4 snowy plovers


Mikiye Nakanishi
 

Crissy field: had to ask 3 people to leash their dogs in the protected area. Bishop still at ft. Mason

Mikiye


Joel Perlstein
 

Thanks for the info. I went on Thursday and saw two snowy plovers and many unleashed dogs. 

I asked one of the dog owners to leash their dog, but they did not do so.


Is there anything we can do to get the National Park Service  to enforce its dog rules in the snowy plover protection areas, or to get them to just prohibit dogs in those areas?
--
Joel Perlstein 
San Francisco


Dario Taraborelli
 

I’d love to know too. Every time I walk through the protected area on a sunny day I see 4-5 unleashed dogs on average. I politely tell their owners, and most reluctantly comply, but that lasts 15 minutes max. 

On Feb 5, 2021, at 21:55, Joel Perlstein <joelperl@...> wrote:



Thanks for the info. I went on Thursday and saw two snowy plovers and many unleashed dogs. 

I asked one of the dog owners to leash their dog, but they did not do so.


Is there anything we can do to get the National Park Service  to enforce its dog rules in the snowy plover protection areas, or to get them to just prohibit dogs in those areas?
--
Joel Perlstein 
San Francisco


Dominik Mosur
 

SFBirders have been wondering the same for a couple of decades now.


On Feb 6, 2021, at 08:57, Dario Taraborelli <dario.taraborelli@...> wrote:


I’d love to know too. Every time I walk through the protected area on a sunny day I see 4-5 unleashed dogs on average. I politely tell their owners, and most reluctantly comply, but that lasts 15 minutes max. 

On Feb 5, 2021, at 21:55, Joel Perlstein <joelperl@...> wrote:



Thanks for the info. I went on Thursday and saw two snowy plovers and many unleashed dogs. 

I asked one of the dog owners to leash their dog, but they did not do so.


Is there anything we can do to get the National Park Service  to enforce its dog rules in the snowy plover protection areas, or to get them to just prohibit dogs in those areas?
--
Joel Perlstein 
San Francisco


Stan Zeavin
 

To All SF who care about snpl -

Just like you, we in Pacifica have been begging for years for the leash law to be enforced. Under an old agreement with the state parks, Pacifica manages Pacifica State Beach. With the approval of the CCC for Pacifica to collect parking fees we had hoped that the money collected would be used exclusively for rangers on the beach as promised. Rangers were discouraged from issuing citations for off-leash violations. As volunteers we were supposed to telephone the police who might show up if nothing else more important was happening, but usually long after the offending owner had left the beach. Hired as "Rangers" ours are ranger in name only, being used by DPW for all sorts of maintenance all over town including emptying garbage cans on San Franicsco's golf berm. Plovers are seen as an inconvenience to the city which is counting on tourist income to fund us. In fact, the tourists are reasonably compliant with signage.  It's the locals who disregard the law. It's the old system of no consequences leading to more violations.

Meanwhile we count and report off-leash owners to the city without effect.

Our sympathy,

Margaret Goodale

On Friday, February 5, 2021, 09:55:50 PM PST, Joel Perlstein <joelperl@...> wrote:


Thanks for the info. I went on Thursday and saw two snowy plovers and many unleashed dogs. 

I asked one of the dog owners to leash their dog, but they did not do so.


Is there anything we can do to get the National Park Service  to enforce its dog rules in the snowy plover protection areas, or to get them to just prohibit dogs in those areas?
--
Joel Perlstein 
San Francisco


Pat Greene
 

The dog lobby is so well organized and well funded (including Jackie Speier who was able to threaten GGNRA funding) that they are able to drive the ‘rules’, —and then break whatever very weak rules exist.
Pat Greene

On Feb 6, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Dominik Mosur via groups.io <polskatata=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

SFBirders have been wondering the same for a couple of decades now.


On Feb 6, 2021, at 08:57, Dario Taraborelli <dario.taraborelli@gmail.com> wrote:


I’d love to know too. Every time I walk through the protected area on a sunny day I see 4-5 unleashed dogs on average. I politely tell their owners, and most reluctantly comply, but that lasts 15 minutes max.

On Feb 5, 2021, at 21:55, Joel Perlstein <joelperl@earthlink.net> wrote:


Thanks for the info. I went on Thursday and saw two snowy plovers and many unleashed dogs.

I asked one of the dog owners to leash their dog, but they did not do so.


Is there anything we can do to get the National Park Service to enforce its dog rules in the snowy plover protection areas, or to get them to just prohibit dogs in those areas?
--
Joel Perlstein
San Francisco


mbzlat
 

In San Francisco, domestic dog privilege supersedes National Park values. Environmental advocates have been trying to eradicate this bias for many years. It's a systemic problem...very frustrating.

Matt Zlatunich


Ray Rozema
 

I agree , very frustrating. Once, while at Crissy Field birding, a lady’s  dog jumped inside my car. The dog was not a leash. The lady’s response  was “ Don’t worry, he’s a good dog” Arrrgh!

On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 4:58 PM mbzlat via groups.io <mbzlat=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
In San Francisco, domestic dog privilege supersedes National Park values. Environmental advocates have been trying to eradicate this bias for many years. It's a systemic problem...very frustrating.

Matt Zlatunich


tracy_farrington
 

San Franciscans are, generally speaking, backers of environmentally responsible behavior and policy. 
But when dogs get put into the mix, all that goes out the door. Whiners and hypocrites.

Tracy Farrington
Walnut Creek

On Saturday, February 6, 2021, 04:58:33 PM PST, mbzlat via groups.io <mbzlat@...> wrote:


In San Francisco, domestic dog privilege supersedes National Park values. Environmental advocates have been trying to eradicate this bias for many years. It's a systemic problem...very frustrating.

Matt Zlatunich


Harrison Karr
 

Has anyone looked into litigation to enforce the Endangered Species Act?  You might find a law firm willing to take this on pro bono, or one of the conservation organizations.
 
Harrison Karr
 

 
 
Harrison 


Chrisand Lorelei
 

I've had bad experiences with dog people, and think the most successful attempts have been to say that THESE birds are migrating birds, and if they get chased, they'll starve. Dog people don't mean to be cruel: they just know it's natural for dogs to chase birds. And they don't know more, and don't like to get scolded and threatened with not being able to take their dogs out for necessary excercise. Some, when they hear about birds trying to migrate and survive, do get a clue, and understand that letting their dogs run should not include letting them chase birds. Rules only work when people understand that the rules make sense. Best wishes for explaining, maybe one person at a time.


From: SFBirds@groups.io <SFBirds@groups.io> on behalf of Pat Greene <pjgreene@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2021 12:59 PM
To: SF Birds <SFBirds@groups.io>
Cc: Joel Perlstein <joelperl@...>; Dominik Mosur <polskatata@...>; Dario Taraborelli <dario.taraborelli@...>; margstan@... <margstan@...>
Subject: Re: [SFBirds] 4 snowy plovers
 
The dog lobby is so well organized and well funded (including Jackie Speier who was able to threaten GGNRA funding) that they are able to drive the ‘rules’, —and then break whatever very weak rules exist.
Pat Greene


> On Feb 6, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Dominik Mosur via groups.io <polskatata@...> wrote:
>
> SFBirders have been wondering the same for a couple of decades now.
>
>
>> On Feb 6, 2021, at 08:57, Dario Taraborelli <dario.taraborelli@...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I’d love to know too. Every time I walk through the protected area on a sunny day I see 4-5 unleashed dogs on average. I politely tell their owners, and most reluctantly comply, but that lasts 15 minutes max.
>>
>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 21:55, Joel Perlstein <joelperl@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the info. I went on Thursday and saw two snowy plovers and many unleashed dogs.
>>>
>>> I asked one of the dog owners to leash their dog, but they did not do so.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there anything we can do to get the National Park Service  to enforce its dog rules in the snowy plover protection areas, or to get them to just prohibit dogs in those areas?
>>> --
>>> Joel Perlstein
>>> San Francisco
>>>
>







greylag64@...
 

I agree with Chrisand Lorelei. I have a friend who complained on her blog about the birds on Ocean Beach not allowing her dogs to have any fun for 9 months of the year. She thought the birds should just go elsewhere.
After I explained things to her, she said "I didn't know".
So the answer is education, one on one. We have to be willing to engage. It is hard to do when the reaction is negative.
I haven't been to Crissy Field in a while. Are there signs? Many places use signs painted by children. Is the fencing just that symbolic cable? 
Maybe we need to give Jackie Speier a hands-on.

Laurie Graham 
South San Francisco 

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 18:57 Chrisand Lorelei <chrisandlorelei@...> wrote:
I've had bad experiences with dog people, and think the most successful attempts have been to say that THESE birds are migrating birds, and if they get chased, they'll starve. Dog people don't mean to be cruel: they just know it's natural for dogs to chase birds. And they don't know more, and don't like to get scolded and threatened with not being able to take their dogs out for necessary excercise. Some, when they hear about birds trying to migrate and survive, do get a clue, and understand that letting their dogs run should not include letting them chase birds. Rules only work when people understand that the rules make sense. Best wishes for explaining, maybe one person at a time.


From: SFBirds@groups.io <SFBirds@groups.io> on behalf of Pat Greene <pjgreene@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2021 12:59 PM
To: SF Birds <SFBirds@groups.io>
Cc: Joel Perlstein <joelperl@...>; Dominik Mosur <polskatata@...>; Dario Taraborelli <dario.taraborelli@...>; margstan@... <margstan@...>
Subject: Re: [SFBirds] 4 snowy plovers
 
The dog lobby is so well organized and well funded (including Jackie Speier who was able to threaten GGNRA funding) that they are able to drive the ‘rules’, —and then break whatever very weak rules exist.
Pat Greene


> On Feb 6, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Dominik Mosur via groups.io <polskatata=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> SFBirders have been wondering the same for a couple of decades now.
>
>
>> On Feb 6, 2021, at 08:57, Dario Taraborelli <dario.taraborelli@...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I’d love to know too. Every time I walk through the protected area on a sunny day I see 4-5 unleashed dogs on average. I politely tell their owners, and most reluctantly comply, but that lasts 15 minutes max.
>>
>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 21:55, Joel Perlstein <joelperl@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the info. I went on Thursday and saw two snowy plovers and many unleashed dogs.
>>>
>>> I asked one of the dog owners to leash their dog, but they did not do so.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there anything we can do to get the National Park Service  to enforce its dog rules in the snowy plover protection areas, or to get them to just prohibit dogs in those areas?
>>> --
>>> Joel Perlstein
>>> San Francisco
>>>
>