Topics

sticky Can I share the RigPi image with a friend?


Howard Nurse, W6HN
 
Edited

The short answer is no.  RigPi contains licensed software, so sharing RigPi with a friend is a violation of copyright laws.

The web server part of RigPi is open source as specified in the RSS License in the RigPi HELP menu. 

Certain RigPi Tuner components were created with proprietary software under terms saying it can't be copied and provided to others without an appropriate license.  The proprietary code is for the graphics elements (Frequency, S-meter, Tuning Knob) on the Tuner window, and our goal for the future is to provide open source replacements.  See the About topic in RigPi HELP for more information, the lines of Tuner code specifically noted as proprietary, and the Perfect Widgets proprietary license included in RigPi Online Help>Technical>Panels.

This information is provided so anyone can use it to discourage others from copying and sharing the software.  MFJ has made the preloaded memory card available for purchase by anyone who wants to build their own RigPi systems.

73, Howard W6HN


Joe NE2Z
 
Edited

Is there a posted manifest and breakdown of what software packages in RigPi are Open Source, OEM Licensed, and MFJ Proprietary ?
This would help with community support in identifying or even developing Open Source alternatives to such packages.

73,

- Joe, NE2Z


Amy Rotenberg
 

Is it possible to purchase for download instead of mailing?
--
André 

ve3yxo


Patrick Bouldin <patrick@...>
 

I see this question from NE2Z was not answered, seems to me a very crucial question, can MFJ or the open source community please respond?

73,

KM5L


Howard Nurse, W6HN
 

Hi Patrick and Andre,

Joe, NE2Z, and I have had several conversations about the manifest and associated questions, but not on the forum.

RigPi is open source except for the proprietary tool used to create the graphics components.  Whether on Github or not, the open source license applies.  Github makes it easier for others to share in the development process, but the image is not available for download either for sale or for free.

You will find list of all tools, open and closed source, used for RigPi in RigPi Help.  RigPi Help is available from a number of places, including the Files section of this Forum and on https://rigpi.net.  Since the RigPi server is written in HTML5 and JavaScript/jQuery, it is easy to view and edit.

If you have specific questions about RigPi, I’ll be glad to answer.

73, Howard W6HN


Pierre Martel <petem001@...>
 

Ok from what I understand, the proprietary software that can't be copied and provided to others without an appropriate license is provided by MFJ. So they are providing with a licence.. Is there a way to buy that licence, at a fair price? In a simple question, what is the part of the SD card price that is for the licence, and what is the part for the rest? Since MFJ is planning on providing the distro on github. I dont think that the profit will be very large on the software itself, but more on the hardware side,and that is fine, a company need to make a profit.. And I am ok with providing it, but unless if the SD card is a 10 type  and at least 64 gig, I find the 50$(canadian) price tag a bit heavy for that SD card.


kenleister@...
 

Pierre,

I am curious about your comments.  Are you saying the software has no value to you at all?  You expect it for free?

Just curious as I can't grasp the concept.  Maybe I am naive about the concept of open source.

What would your plans be?  To use it?  Modify it for you own use?

The price seems reasonable to me is the reason I ask.

Thanks for any comments.

Ken


Ron Wright - KA5LUG
 

Just a quick note to say that purchasing the SD card with the software alone is absolutely worth the $40.  Howard has done an excellent job of integrating several existing open source components, filling in the gaps with his own code, and using commercially licensed interface components where they made sense.  As an IT professional and software developer for almost 30 years, my recommendation is to just buy it.  You will not be disappointed.  Once you do you will have full access to the source code to modify for your own personal use.  The code is well written and those that are proficient with HTML5, javascript, and php will have no trouble identifying the pieces.  Don't forget that this is more than just rig control.  It also includes logging, dx spotting, callbook lookups, and a full management interface.  Oh, and it also works with Howard's FREE IOS mobile app which is really nice.

--Ron, KA5LUG


Pierre Martel <petem001@...>
 

Good question Ken,

It is not a question if the software have a value or not. The maker of the software did in fact said that they will put up the software for everyone to download on github, making it a free software. As I said in my previous email, there business plan seems to be based on selling hardware to make a profit.

As all venture based on open source software ( raspbian being one) this is the normal way to go. You design a software based on open source, you make a specific hardware to use it and the profit come from that.. So I dont think MFJ is hoping to make a profit only on the software itself. They seems to be stuck with a licensing issue, and to be able to sell the hardware faster, they distribute the software under some licence, and they ask some price for that.. Now I would like to test the software with a RadioBerry, another pensource project. That project is using a raspberry PI as the work force to drive a small but powerfull SDR transceiver.. 

So what I am asking is if it is possible to pay MFJ for the licensing they are stuck with, test the software with a radio berry (and maybe my flex 3000, and if it does work, I will be more then happy to buy the hardware parts from MFJ.. 

Is that more clear?



Le lun. 8 juil. 2019 à 22:14, <kenleister@...> a écrit :
Pierre,

I am curious about your comments.  Are you saying the software has no value to you at all?  You expect it for free?

Just curious as I can't grasp the concept.  Maybe I am naive about the concept of open source.

What would your plans be?  To use it?  Modify it for you own use?

The price seems reasonable to me is the reason I ask.

Thanks for any comments.

Ken


kenleister@...
 

Pierre,

Thanks for the explanation.  That does make perfect sense.  I guess in this case since you don't always need all the hardware it puts them in a unique situation.

But now I understand the logic of doing it.

Ken


Clint Chron
 

Hi Ron,

 

I agree that the MFJ SD Card is well worth the $40 price.  However, a number of people keep reporting that the SD card is on 30 day back-order from MFJ.  And that 30 day window appears to be continually pushed back.  Since there are no unique hardware components to the card, I am having a very hard time in understanding why the card is so difficult to get.  I understand that the demand for the complete MFJ-1234 system is high, but as I have stated before, it only takes less than 2 minutes of someone’s time to burn a new SD card – and that assumes that the process is not automated.

 

My guess is that MFJ wants to discourage end-users from purchasing the SD Card so that they will be pushed into buying the $150 or $299 system.

 

I would be interested to know how many people have actually ordered and received the SD card from either MFJ, Gigaparts, HRO, etc.

 

In the past, I have had to cancel orders to MFJ because the particular hardware item was in continual backorder.  And the part was going to stay in backorder because of very minimal demand.

 

73

Clint

W7KEC

 

From: RigPi@groups.io [mailto:RigPi@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Wright - KA5LUG
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 7:30 PM
To: RigPi@groups.io
Subject: Re: [RigPi] Can I share the RigPi image with a friend?

 

Just a quick note to say that purchasing the SD card with the software alone is absolutely worth the $40.  Howard has done an excellent job of integrating several existing open source components, filling in the gaps with his own code, and using commercially licensed interface components where they made sense.  As an IT professional and software developer for almost 30 years, my recommendation is to just buy it.  You will not be disappointed.  Once you do you will have full access to the source code to modify for your own personal use.  The code is well written and those that are proficient with HTML5, javascript, and php will have no trouble identifying the pieces.  Don't forget that this is more than just rig control.  It also includes logging, dx spotting, callbook lookups, and a full management interface.  Oh, and it also works with Howard's FREE IOS mobile app which is really nice.

--Ron, KA5LUG


Ron Wright - KA5LUG
 

I absolutely agree that they should be able to create and provide SD cards at a much faster rate.  I ordered direct from MFJ early on and still waited almost a month for my card to arrive.

--Ron, KA5LUG


John Szczepaniak <js1950@...>
 

Do you want some cheese with that wine? I am sure they were overwhelmed by the number of orders and it’s just one of their huge inventory the have to maintain. Nothing that is written here is going to get it shipped any faster.
John

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 9:41 PM Clint Chron <kiheiman@q.com> wrote:

Hi Ron,

 

I agree that the MFJ SD Card is well worth the $40 price.  However, a number of people keep reporting that the SD card is on 30 day back-order from MFJ.  And that 30 day window appears to be continually pushed back.  Since there are no unique hardware components to the card, I am having a very hard time in understanding why the card is so difficult to get.  I understand that the demand for the complete MFJ-1234 system is high, but as I have stated before, it only takes less than 2 minutes of someone’s time to burn a new SD card – and that assumes that the process is not automated.

 

My guess is that MFJ wants to discourage end-users from purchasing the SD Card so that they will be pushed into buying the $150 or $299 system.

 

I would be interested to know how many people have actually ordered and received the SD card from either MFJ, Gigaparts, HRO, etc.

 

In the past, I have had to cancel orders to MFJ because the particular hardware item was in continual backorder.  And the part was going to stay in backorder because of very minimal demand.

 

73

Clint

W7KEC

 

From: RigPi@groups.io [mailto:RigPi@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Wright - KA5LUG
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 7:30 PM
To: RigPi@groups.io
Subject: Re: [RigPi] Can I share the RigPi image with a friend?

 

Just a quick note to say that purchasing the SD card with the software alone is absolutely worth the $40.  Howard has done an excellent job of integrating several existing open source components, filling in the gaps with his own code, and using commercially licensed interface components where they made sense.  As an IT professional and software developer for almost 30 years, my recommendation is to just buy it.  You will not be disappointed.  Once you do you will have full access to the source code to modify for your own personal use.  The code is well written and those that are proficient with HTML5, javascript, and php will have no trouble identifying the pieces.  Don't forget that this is more than just rig control.  It also includes logging, dx spotting, callbook lookups, and a full management interface.  Oh, and it also works with Howard's FREE IOS mobile app which is really nice.

--Ron, KA5LUG


Richard Daily
 

Regarding duplicating the SD card. I just did this in order to have a personal backup before starting to configure my RigPi. On an iMac 4 core i5 and a USB 3 card reader, it took about 30 minutes to create an image and longer than that to burn it to a new card. This was done with terminal commands which are the same as Unix on a Mac per the article below. I would think similar times would be true under Windows. The image creation is a one-time thing but seems to take a lot longer than 2 min to create each ready to boot copy of the SD card.


Clint Chron
 

Hi Richard,

 

The two minute time is based upon the actual time for installing/removing SD card and kicking off the backup/burn process.    I use the Win32 Disk Imager app. 

 

On my Windows 10 PC, it takes about 14 minutes to make a copy of the SD card and about 20 minutes to burn a SD card.  Thus someone could be doing other things while the application is copying/burning the SD card.

 

There are a number of solutions for writing multiple SD cards at the same time.

 

https://twocanoes.com/creating-8-sd-cards-at-once-with-sd-clone/

 

With this type of solution, one could make about 192 RigPi SD cards over an 8 hour period and the actual operator time would be less than 30 minutes.  I would think that 192 SD cards would satisfy the current demand, including the orders that are on back-order.

 

73

Clint

W7KEC

 

From: RigPi@groups.io [mailto:RigPi@groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Daily
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 5:46 AM
To: RigPi@groups.io
Subject: Re: [RigPi] Can I share the RigPi image with a friend?

 

Regarding duplicating the SD card. I just did this in order to have a personal backup before starting to configure my RigPi. On an iMac 4 core i5 and a USB 3 card reader, it took about 30 minutes to create an image and longer than that to burn it to a new card. This was done with terminal commands which are the same as Unix on a Mac per the article below. I would think similar times would be true under Windows. The image creation is a one-time thing but seems to take a lot longer than 2 min to create each ready to boot copy of the SD card.

 


James Craft
 

If MFJ cannot release the image without charging for the graphics license, I would like to see them offer the ability to purchase the image for download with an emailed code, just like RT Systems and any number of other vendors offer. Anyone who buys the physical media should already be backing up the image to another card before using it anyway, but this would increase the number of users right away. I'd pay $20 for the downloadable image right now because I don't need the rest of the hardware for my equipment, and I'm not going to pay $40 for a backordered SD card and wait for it to be burned and shipped.

Jim, AD0AC


Pierre Martel <petem001@...>
 

You have about the same view as me..

I would like the image, and I will gladly pay for it... If there is a licence to pay, fine with me..

But paying for a cheap 8 or maybe 16 gig sd card, and then paying for duty and shipping, while it could just be downloaded.. This wont cut it..

And the fact that after some times MFJ will send the software on a site for it to be free to download..

We want the damn thing.. the more you wait to provide the gizmo, the less you will sell it.. People will go for other solution cause there are other solution..


Larry McElhiney
 

Hi Folks,

I truly understand the frustrations associated with the current process of accessing an image.  (In addition, International costs are exorbitant.)

If you have read other messages related to "Images", you might be aware the the only software which will eventually be available on Github will be the RigPI Server Software.  The image software will not be available on Github.

Overall, I suspect that contacting MFJ directly requesting an alternate product pathway (e.g., Image Download  $XX.XX) might be more successful than using this forum.

73,

Larry
AC9OX


Howard Nurse, W6HN
 

Thanks all for your feedback.  The staff at MFJ does follow this forum and is aware of the frustration.  (I am not an MFJ employee.) The availability of a downloadable image for this first release will also be important in the future whenever a major new image is released. I am working on a solution.

The only major obstacle preventing the RSS code from being available on Github is the proprietary graphics components.  Anyone with experience in jQuery can see how they are used in the Tuner window, and I’d love to have help creating an open source replacement.

Once the RSS code is on Github it can be installed on a Raspberry Pi LAMP stack.  Instructions for setting up a LAMP stack on a Raspberry Pi are widely available on the Internet.  The other programs, such as for digital modes (Fldigi, WSJT-X) and Mumble for VoIP, are available as well with complete installation instructions from their development communities.

73, Howard W6HN


Howard Nurse, W6HN
 

Complete information on the proprietary tool, including the company producing it and its associated license, is included in RigPi Help.  See the Panel topic in the Technical section.  RigPi Help is available here in the forum files area and also through the RigPi site at https://rigpi.net.

73, Howard W6HN