Topics

RPi models

Michael WA7SKG
 

I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG

James French
 

I'd say stock up with some if you get the chance.

The only reason I have my three 3+ model b's are that I needed the extra power to do a couple of things. Otherwise, I have a 2+, 2 model b+'s, a model a+, and seven various models of zeros.

I'm not going to breakdown and get a 4+ since I haven't even utilized all that I have.

James W8ISS 

Mark Griffith
 

Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:


I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG



colin humphries <3humps@...>
 

If there is "nothing wrong with it" then you clearly aren't "in the loop"  reference the choice of 4K OR WiFi can't have both. Might want to check you facts, just saying.


On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 05:56 Mark Griffith via Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:


I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG



Mark Griffith
 

As I said, there will be many lurkers who will want to correct me.  I am "in the loop".  Perhaps not the same on as you.

Just sayin'

Mark Griffith
KD0QYN

On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 7:31:53 AM CST, colin humphries <3humps@...> wrote:


If there is "nothing wrong with it" then you clearly aren't "in the loop"  reference the choice of 4K OR WiFi can't have both. Might want to check you facts, just saying.

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 05:56 Mark Griffith via Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:


I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG



John Mathieson
 

I have 5 pi's of various vintages running at home and one running at a remote location.  Aside from cache size and faster processor, I can think of not burning need to go to the model 4.   If you are doing a fair amount of graphics work then the switch might help but otherwise I am not sure of the benefits.  Just my thoughts.

John AC8JW

 

A key reason to get a 4B is so you can run things on a 4B.  If somebody on the group says “it ain’t working” about some app or another, and you come back with a “sure it is”, it is good to be able to qualify with a sure-it-is on a 3B+ or 4B or both or some such.  In each revision, the computer has gotten more powerful.  They keep solving problems and improving, at the expense of previous problems and previous stability.   I like that they keep adding new features while keeping the price the same.  

I figure that by the time the Raspberry Pi 5 comes out in 2021 or so, the 4B will have most of it’s problems worked out, worked around, or at least understood, and the people who came into the hobby between 2019 and 2021 will be all about how unstable the 5 is and how damned are the people who want to move beyond the 4.  haha. 

I’d go with the latest and greatest.  For me it is silly to get the older one.  Most of the newbs will get the new one if only because the old one is harder to find and runs a little slower.  The accessories will be focused on the new one.  IF your hobby has participant churn, or expands (in participants), eventually more people will have newer units than older.  That means testing of accessories and apps will be focused on the new one.  Bugs will be fought using the new ones.  

I have a 6 year old ham radio project that runs on Raspberry PIs connected to each other over cheap modems across VHF and UHF FM radios over a 5 county region in central North Carolina.  We have about 25 connected participants, and another 190 who are disparate.  Our group now has its own modem hardware, and our own UI based on Tornado and Python, our own UPS.  This has been (and hopefully will continue to be) an amazing experience.  Part of my thing is technical support and documentation.  I maintain a web page at http://ncpacket.net. and another at http://tarpn.net.  about the same project.  I have to (and enjoy) test each of the variants of the Raspberry PI and get our installer and run-time scripting to work on different Raspberry PIs.  I support the B, Bv2, 2B, 3B, 3B+, 4B.  
The biggest differences were 
28 vs 40 pin expansion bus
I2C bus moved between the A and B, which is why we dismissed the A and earlier.  
adding Bluetooth, because it changed the expansion bus serial port compatibility, between 2B and older, and 3B and newer.  
Adding WiFi, because we didn’t need dongles anymore
Upping the power supply voltage because 5v [apparently] caused SDcard corruption starting at the 3B or 3B+.  
Changing power connectors and video outputs between 3B+ and 4B

There have been bugs all along too.  The serial port thing on the 3B took a while to settle out.  The OS changed the way we launch background apps.  
On the 4B, one of the two video outputs is inactive in NOOBS.  That has caused some grief!   
4B wants a little heatsink where the older Raspberry PI would run ok without them (if the units were operated indoors)
Setting the video output on 4B to specific screen resolution(s?) causes and RF spur sufficient to impact WiFi reception!  

And so on.  
   Have fun!    Tadd / KA2DEW

Tadd / KA2DEW
tadd@...
Raleigh NC  FM05pv

“Packet networking over ham radio": http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html
North Carolina Packet Radio Network: http://ncpacket.net/north_carolina_packet_network.html
Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a

On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:54 AM, Mark Griffith via Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003@...> wrote:

As I said, there will be many lurkers who will want to correct me.  I am "in the loop".  Perhaps not the same on as you.

Just sayin'

Mark Griffith
KD0QYN

On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 7:31:53 AM CST, colin humphries <3humps@...> wrote:


If there is "nothing wrong with it" then you clearly aren't "in the loop"  reference the choice of 4K OR WiFi can't have both. Might want to check you facts, just saying.

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 05:56 Mark Griffith via Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:


I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG




Bob Bennett
 

As the adage goes, "If it aint broke, dont fix it". I have a stack of 7 Pi3's that I upgraded from Pi2's. I run a bunch of satellite stuff, monitor clusters, monitor flightaware at local airports, wsjtx, and other misc tasks. I also used to run a Pi-
TNC from one. They all work and work well.
    I recently purchased 3 Pi4's. I have been a fan of them since meeting the creator and an AMSAT dinner in Dayton. They are all excellent and I have started to find additional things to do with them, like FT8 with my TX-990 (the 3's were just  little too slow for that). I have also put one on the satallites and an trying (with much difficulty) to set up one with my 2 Pi TNC's.
   The long and short is the adage in my first sentence. I was going to replace the 3'3. but there really is no need to. If you want to experiment and try different things the Pi4, that is what it was made for - experimentation and learning.
   One thing to be aware of, is the Pi4 can run hot and an exhaust fan is recommended (really required). If you want to stack them, like I have my Pi3's thiink about how to keep the CPU and one other chip cool. I also have the panel app that monitors the temp (I do that for all my Pi's).
   Last but not least. If it's fun. Do it!

NZ2Z

Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
 

I have 4 new Pi 4 on the way. I was going to go with the 3B but when I could buy the 4 for less money it was a no brainer for me.

On my wish list, I wish the Pi would also have audio in as well as out. Then an external sound card wouldn't be needed. Must need to much space or expense to do that. Hopefully some day.

Mick - W7CAT


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tadd KA2DEW in NC via Groups.Io"
To: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2019 09:18:14 AM
Subject: Re: [RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio] RPi models

> A key reason to get a 4B is so you can run things on a 4B. If somebody on the group says “it ain’t working” about some app or another, and you come back with a “sure it is”, it is good to be able to qualify with a sure-it-is on a 3B+ or 4B or both or some such. In each revision, the computer has gotten more powerful. They keep solving problems and improving, at the expense of previous problems and previous stability. I like that they keep adding new features while keeping the price the same.
>
> I figure that by the time the Raspberry Pi 5 comes out in 2021 or so, the 4B will have most of it’s problems worked out, worked around, or at least understood, and the people who came into the hobby between 2019 and 2021 will be all about how unstable the 5 is and how damned are the people who want to move beyond the 4. haha.
>
> I’d go with the latest and greatest. For me it is silly to get the older one. Most of the newbs will get the new one if only because the old one is harder to find and runs a little slower. The accessories will be focused on the new one. IF your hobby has participant churn, or expands (in participants), eventually more people will have newer units than older. That means testing of accessories and apps will be focused on the new one. Bugs will be fought using the new ones.
>
> I have a 6 year old ham radio project that runs on Raspberry PIs connected to each other over cheap modems across VHF and UHF FM radios over a 5 county region in central North Carolina. We have about 25 connected participants, and another 190 who are disparate. Our group now has its own modem hardware, and our own UI based on Tornado and Python, our own UPS. This has been (and hopefully will continue to be) an amazing experience. Part of my thing is technical support and documentation. I maintain a web page at http://ncpacket.net . and another at http://tarpn.net . about the same project. I have to (and enjoy) test each of the variants of the Raspberry PI and get our installer and run-time scripting to work on different Raspberry PIs. I support the B, Bv2, 2B, 3B, 3B+, 4B.
> The biggest differences were
> 28 vs 40 pin expansion bus
> I2C bus moved between the A and B, which is why we dismissed the A and earlier.
> adding Bluetooth, because it changed the expansion bus serial port compatibility, between 2B and older, and 3B and newer.
> Adding WiFi, because we didn’t need dongles anymore
> Upping the power supply voltage because 5v [apparently] caused SDcard corruption starting at the 3B or 3B+.
> Changing power connectors and video outputs between 3B+ and 4B
>
> There have been bugs all along too. The serial port thing on the 3B took a while to settle out. The OS changed the way we launch background apps.
> On the 4B, one of the two video outputs is inactive in NOOBS. That has caused some grief!
> 4B wants a little heatsink where the older Raspberry PI would run ok without them (if the units were operated indoors)
> Setting the video output on 4B to specific screen resolution(s?) causes and RF spur sufficient to impact WiFi reception!
>
> And so on.
> Have fun! Tadd / KA2DEW
>
> Tadd / KA2DEW
> tadd@...
> Raleigh NC FM05pv
>
> “Packet networking over ham radio": http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html
> North Carolina Packet Radio Network: http://ncpacket.net/north_carolina_packet_network.html
> Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a
>
> > On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:54 AM, Mark Griffith via Groups.Io wrote:
> >
> > As I said, there will be many lurkers who will want to correct me. I am "in the loop". Perhaps not the same on as you.
> >
> > Just sayin'
> >
> > Mark Griffith
> > KD0QYN
> >
> > On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 7:31:53 AM CST, colin humphries <3humps@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If there is "nothing wrong with it" then you clearly aren't "in the loop" reference the choice of 4K OR WiFi can't have both. Might want to check you facts, just saying.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 05:56 Mark Griffith via Groups.Io > wrote:
> > Michael,
> >
> > The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation. They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.
> >
> > The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one. There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different. It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things. If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.
> >
> > The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one. Also some better USB support for faster HD access. The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.
> >
> > These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.
> >
> > The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.
> >
> > I've simplified the differences here. I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2. The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.
> >
> > For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4. It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi. You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem. Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all. That is the advantage of using the newer hardware. I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that. All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.
> >
> > If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm. But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing. I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use. I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference. It worked the same as before.
> >
> > The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too. You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4. That's the only issue. Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases. If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it. I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.
> >
> > The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't. You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.
> >
> > Mark
> > KD0QYN
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG > wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
> > cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
> > doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
> > keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
> > units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
> > monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
> > production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?
> >
> > tnx es 73,
> >
> > Michael WA7SKG
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--

Steve Witt <sawitt@...>
 

RPi single board computers (SBC) are in the class of processors
typically used for embedded systems. RPi's do have video and audio
capabilities that make them more capable than most typical embedded
SBCs and so they can be used as desktop/laptop replacements when the
processing requirements aren't too great. The software that runs on
these types of SBCs in most cases doesn't have the bloat that desktop
operating systems (e.g. Windows, MacOS) have, requiring ever
increasing processing power. The only reason to upgrade the processor
from an RPi 3 to 4 would be if you intended to add/change the software
functionality of a given RPi to something requiring significantly more
processing power. In the embedded systems world, processors are almost
always picked to be only as powerful as necessary for the intended
function, so size, weight, power, heat, and cost are minimized.

I have a collection of RPi 3's and RPi Zero W's and used them for
various things HAM and home automation related. I absolutely love the
Zero's. So don't feel the need to upgrade unless your processor isn't
performing adequately. And only buy as much processor as you need for
a given purpose, Extra processing power is just costing money. The
trick for most laymen (and some engineers) is figuring out what is
an adequate SBC for a given task.

73,
Steve K6ZX

David Ranch
 


While I generally agree with what everyone has been saying on this thread, I do feel there are a few differences that us HAMs should consider:

   - If you are concerned about power consumption (running off batteries), the Rp4 and Rpi3+ probably aren't for you.  If it has enough compute power, consider the Rpi Zero-W which does require much power (watts).

   - If you are doing a lot of USB work, especially using Direwolf via a USB sound device for APRS/Packet, consider the Rpi4 as it's USB avoids known Direwolf random playback delays (other workarounds are available)

   - If you do a lot of heavy duty Ethernet or USB I/O, consider the Rpi4.  It's the first version of a Raspberry Pi that does proper USB 3.0 and Gigabit Ethernet without all kinds of shared bus hacks


With that said, the current Rpi4 hardware has some issues:

   - Has a significant power draw increase though this has been getting some significant improvements via firmware updates
   - Has reports of different HDMI resolutions / refresh rates directly impacting Wifi reception
   - Has limited support for USB-C power supplies (minor)


I have a summary of the differences between the versions of Pis that might be helpful for some:

   http://www.trinityos.com/HAM/CentosDigitalModes/RPi/rpi2-setup.html#1.rpi-hardware-versions

--David
KI6ZHD





On 12/05/2019 02:55 AM, Mark Griffith via Groups.Io wrote:
Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN

Kevin
 

David,
Excellent document, best compilation of data and tips for setting up.
I will be following your guidelines to create a fresh hardened build for my pi's

Thanks!
73, Kevin K3TL

David Ranch
 


Hey Kevin,

Thanks and please let me know if you find any typos, anything confusing, or things you might like to see added.   No doubt it's a pretty complex document but it should cover most of the cases to reliably and securely connect a Raspberry Pi directly to the Internet as well as support various packet configurations, etc.

--David
KI6ZHD


On 12/07/2019 09:11 AM, Kevin wrote:
David,
Excellent document, best compilation of data and tips for setting up.
I will be following your guidelines to create a fresh hardened build for my pi's

Thanks!
73, Kevin K3TL

Terry L. Morris
 

I cannot suggest that you purchase the RPi4 to "keep up with the Jones". The RPi4, and all the models before #4, has some issues that will be corrected in time. The RPi4 is still useable as were the others. I do most of my ham operations with the RPi3B+. I just ordered 3 more RPi3B+ and the RPi4. All my Pi's run headless. I plan to run the RPi4 as a mini desktop with monitor, keyboard, mouse, and printer.

Production of the previous Pi's is ongoing. I hope this has been helpful.

Terry KB8AMZ