Stratum One NTP server using a RPi


w4oa@arrl.net
 
Edited

Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders for FT8, even if is total overkill. :)

I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today. Will be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle so far is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.

Mitch W4OA
ps see photos of my build on a RPi Zero W in Photos, using a usb to ethernet adapter for network access.


 

Yes, I have been running one for a couple of months. 

I used the Adafruit Ultimate GPS Hat. 

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 22:32 w4oa@... <w4oa@...> wrote:
Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders for FT8, even if is total overkill. :)

I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today. Will be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle so far is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.

Mitch W4OA


mathison ott
 

not the least bit over kill. I use a rpi to keep time for all the computers on my network including the computer I use for wsjt-x modes. I use a Utart 3v/5v gps module, with a pps out. The setting up the server wasn't to bad, including compiling the NTPD with the pps support. FYI  I still looked up and used local reference clock at my university and for my geographical region to further reference. No problems in 5 years!!!!


73 
mathison kj6dzb


Tony
 

Please don't use Stratum 1 servers .... use 2 or greater. Don't add additional strain on the system.

On 04/02/2018 10:31 PM, w4oa@arrl.net wrote:
Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders for FT8, even if is total overkill. :)

I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today. Will be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle so far is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.


Max
 

Could you please clarify your statement here. How is adding a GPS straining anything?

Max KG4PID 

On Tuesday, April 3, 2018, 1:45:41 AM CDT, Tony via Groups.Io <ynotssor@...> wrote:

Please don't use Stratum 1 servers .... use 2 or greater. Don't add
additional strain on the system.

On 04/02/2018 10:31 PM, w4oa@... wrote:
> Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders for
> FT8, even if is total overkill. :)
>
> I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today. Will
> be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle so far
> is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.





Dave Cole <dave@...>
 

I suspect he was thinking of the old days where GPS was not involved, but the Internet was used. Here is a current definition of a Stratum-1 device:

A primary server that receives a time signal from a stratum 0 device either through the GPS network or national time and frequency transmission is known as a Stratum-1 device.

As per NIST a GPSDO is a Stratum-1 device, so the GPS locked clock would probably fall under the general class of a Stratum-1 device.

In the old days people were asked to not connect via the Internet to Stratum-1 devices to reduce load.

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
https://www.nk7z.net

On 04/03/2018 01:44 AM, Max via Groups.Io wrote:
Could you please clarify your statement here. How is adding a GPS straining anything?
Max KG4PID
On Tuesday, April 3, 2018, 1:45:41 AM CDT, Tony via Groups.Io <ynotssor=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Please don't use Stratum 1 servers .... use 2 or greater. Don't add
additional strain on the system.
On 04/02/2018 10:31 PM, w4oa@arrl.net <mailto:w4oa@arrl.net> wrote:
> Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders for
> FT8, even if is total overkill. :)
>
> I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today. Will
> be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle so far
> is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.


Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
 

Hello Group,

So along this same subject, is there any (reasonable) way to use one of these for a 10 MHz frequency standard for test equipment?

Mick - W7CAT

----- Original Message -----
From: "mathison ott"
To: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 12:02:48 AM
Subject: Re: [RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio] Stratum One NTP server using a RPi

> not the least bit over kill. I use a rpi to keep time for all the computers
> on my network including the computer I use for wsjt-x modes. I use a Utart
> 3v/5v gps module, with a pps out. The setting up the server wasn't to bad,
> including compiling the NTPD with the pps support. FYI I still looked up
> and used local reference clock at my university and for my geographical
> region to further reference. No problems in 5 years!!!!
>
>
> 73
> mathison kj6dzb
>

--

Be sure to check out all the latest at our web site!


 

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA) <tarra@...> wrote:
Hello Group,

So along this same subject, is there any (reasonable) way to use one of these for a 10 MHz frequency standard for test equipment?

Mick - W7CAT

--


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   


w4oa@arrl.net
 

Looks like some interest! I am using the Adafruit Ultimate GPS Breakout - 66 channel w/10 Hz updates - Version 3 https://www.adafruit.com/product/746 and beta-tester's RPi-GPS-PPS-StratumOne github install script https://github.com/beta-tester/RPi-GPS-PPS-StratumOne/blob/master/install-gps-pps.sh which is almost plug 'n play. I had problems because I was using my new RPi 3+. Communicated with beta-tester who identified my problem as BT interfering with the serial port, which is used by the gps. He promptly made a script change and added instructions to fix. But if you have a RPi 2 which is now unused, it is perfect. I have now successfully installed the software on a RPi 2, 3+, and 0. The 0 also required disabling the BT. The Adafruit Ultimate v3 seems a little deaf compared with my 2 qrp-labs QLG1 GPS Receivers. Beware that the RPi gpio pins are 3.3v, NOT 5v, and the rx/tx pins from the gps to the gpio pins must be connect rx to tx. Connect accordingly! A very simple and worthwhile project!!

Mitch W4OA


 

You might be interested in the work being done at NW Digital Radio (http://nwdigitalradio.com/2018-state-of-the-union/) on their next generation Raspberry Pi HAT.  The HAT contains 2 DIN-6 connectors providing audio IN/OUT and PTT for operating modes such as WSJT-X, Direwolf (Packet with different modems with rates into the kilobits range), Fldigi, Digital Voice, etc.  and will contain a built-in GPS/RTC with PPS for high accuracy (STRATUM-1) time and location.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 10:31 PM, w4oa@... <w4oa@...> wrote:
Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders for FT8, even if is total overkill. :)

I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today. Will be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle so far is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.

Mitch W4OA
_._,_._,_

--


John D. Hays
Edmonds, WA
K7VE

   


Max
 

Personally I'd rather use a generic interface that is not Pi specific for some things. Sure it make for a nice (but pricey at $89.05) package. What happens in a few years when something better than a Pi come out and none of your interfaces will work? You can get a very nice interface for roughly half that.

On Tuesday, April 3, 2018, 11:17:20 AM CDT, John D Hays - K7VE <john@...> wrote:


You might be interested in the work being done at NW Digital Radio (http://nwdigitalradio.com/2018-state-of-the-union/) on their next generation Raspberry Pi HAT.  The HAT contains 2 DIN-6 connectors providing audio IN/OUT and PTT for operating modes such as WSJT-X, Direwolf (Packet with different modems with rates into the kilobits range), Fldigi, Digital Voice, etc.  and will contain a built-in GPS/RTC with PPS for high accuracy (STRATUM-1) time and location.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 10:31 PM, w4oa@... <w4oa@...> wrote:
Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders for FT8, even if is total overkill. :)

I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today. Will be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle so far is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.

Mitch W4OA


Perry Ogletree
 

You have to find a GPS module based on one of the “time standard” chips instead of plain navigation.  As an example, many of the cheap GPS modules are based on the U-Blox Neo 6M module which only support a 1 cps pulse.  The pin compatible Neo 6T supports a programable frequency out that can be set for 10 MHz or even higher (I believe it tops out around 20 MHz but I’d have to look at the spec sheet).  The time standards are built to tighter specs and have precision master clocks based on TCXO or OCXO.

 

Perry K4PWO

 

From: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io <RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io> On Behalf Of Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 10:41 AM
To: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io
Subject: Re: [RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio] Stratum One NTP server using a RPi

 

Hello Group,

So along this same subject, is there any (reasonable) way to use one of these for a 10 MHz frequency standard for test equipment?

Mick - W7CAT

----- Original Message -----
From: "mathison ott"
To: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 12:02:48 AM
Subject: Re: [RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio] Stratum One NTP server using a RPi

> not the least bit over kill. I use a rpi to keep time for all the computers
> on my network including the computer I use for wsjt-x modes. I use a Utart
> 3v/5v gps module, with a pps out. The setting up the server wasn't to bad,
> including compiling the NTPD with the pps support. FYI I still looked up
> and used local reference clock at my university and for my geographical
> region to further reference. No problems in 5 years!!!!
>
>
> 73
> mathison kj6dzb
>

--

Be sure to check out all the latest at our web site!

Image removed by sender.


w4oa@arrl.net
 

Very true, but the timing gps modules are much more expensive. A few nano seconds won't make much - any? difference for my use.

Mitch W4OA
ps check out the time-nuts mailing list if you want pico second accuracy, and be sure to compensate for the length of your gps timing antenna lead. :)


Perry Ogletree
 

You are correct for a straight time use like an NTP server but the previous poster was talking frequency standards. Pico seconds matter there.

Perry K4PWO 



Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S7 edge.

-------- Original message --------
From: w4oa@...
Date: 4/3/18 3:58 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io
Subject: Re: [RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio] Stratum One NTP server using a RPi

Very true, but the timing gps modules are much more expensive. A few nano seconds won't make much - any? difference for my use.

Mitch W4OA
ps check out the time-nuts mailing list if you want pico second accuracy, and be sure to compensate for the length of your gps timing antenna lead. :)


WA7SKG <wa7skg@...>
 

Last year for Field Day, I set up an RPi and a wireless router for our logging computers to use. As there was no Internet access at the FD site, I connected a USB GPS puck to the RPi (~$35 Amazon device). The RPi served NTP, DHCP, and central file server for all computers on site. Worked great. Used the same setup for some remote FT8 ops just for time purposes.

73,
Michael WA7SKG


w4oa@arrl.net wrote on 04/02/2018 10:31 PM:

Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders for FT8, even if is total overkill. :)
I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today. Will be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle so far is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.
Mitch W4OA


WA7SKG <wa7skg@...>
 

Just looked up the Adafruit Ultimate GPS Hat. Neat device! Can it be used with a TNC-Pi for APRS? Right now I'm using a USB GPS puck, but I'm wondering if this might also be a viable option to free up a USB port.

Michael WA7SKG


John D Hays - K7VE wrote on 04/02/2018 10:50 PM:

Yes, I have been running one for a couple of months.
I used the Adafruit Ultimate GPS Hat.
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 22:32 w4oa@arrl.net <mailto:w4oa@arrl.net> <w4oa@arrl.net <mailto:w4oa@arrl.net>> wrote:
Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders
for FT8, even if is total overkill. :)
I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today.
Will be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle
so far is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.
Mitch W4OA


 

Yes.


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 05:11 WA7SKG via Groups.Io <wa7skg=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Just looked up the Adafruit Ultimate GPS Hat. Neat device! Can it be
used with a TNC-Pi for APRS? Right now I'm using a USB GPS puck, but I'm
wondering if this might also be a viable option to free up a USB port.

Michael WA7SKG


John D Hays - K7VE wrote on 04/02/2018 10:50 PM:
> Yes, I have been running one for a couple of months.
>
> I used the Adafruit Ultimate GPS Hat.
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 22:32 w4oa@... <mailto:w4oa@...>
> <w4oa@... <mailto:w4oa@...>> wrote:
>
>     Anyone using a RPi with a gps as a NTP server? Should work wonders
>     for FT8, even if is total overkill. :)
>
>     I am working on one using an Adafruit gps, got it working today.
>     Will be checking accuracy over the next few days. The biggest hassle
>     so far is the wonky serial port/bluetooth port on the Pi.
>
>     Mitch W4OA
>