Date   

Re: Backup recovery

Mark Griffith
 

I will agree that the SD card can be considered a weak point, but it is not nearly as much of an issue that many people say.

I have been using these Raspberry Pi machines since they were first introduced.  I have a Pi 4 here that I use as a development computer.  The 32GB SD card in there first started out on an original Pi, then a Pi2, then a Pi3, and now a Pi4.  I have written complete images to it may times, updated software, installed and removed software packages, everything that you can do with a storage device on a Linux machine.  That same SD card still is working fine after nearly 5 years of constant use.  And constant means it runs software on a constant basis, doing various things, and I usually login to it once a day to look at something or make a small adjustment to my software.  It always works.

I backup the software files on there that I want to keep as often as I think about it, and pull the card from the Pi and do an image backup once a month or so.  If it failed for some reason, I might loose a few things that I could quickly restore from memory, but not much.  I could setup another Pi as a backup server and mirror to two hourly, but I'm not that concerned.

Sure, some day it will fail.  But if you use a Class 10 SD card, you will probably have years of use with it, like I have.  Class 10 cards are not just for speedy reads and writes, but they have a means to deal with dead bits and still work.

However, if you want to add a hard disk to the Pi, or even a thumb drive and run off that, you have every right to do as you see fit.  More power to you.

I will point out that up to now, you still need an SD card to actually boot the Pi, and then it can switch to another device.  The Pi 4 is supposed to have a feature to boot directly from another device, but I don't think it made it into the firmware yet.

Just my two cents.

Mark
KD0QYN




The SD card is a weak point as they were never designed to run high levels of read write activity over long periods of time.
I have moved all my Pi's to a usb connected ssd and no longer boot from or use an SD card
There are plenty of guides on YouTube on how to do this.


Re: Backup recovery

Allen
 

Sorry I forgot this thread I have not set up a sig.

Allen Higgins
KE8KZO


Re: Backup recovery

Allen
 

Matt,
   If you are correct about the SD card being a weak point I was wondering I have left over from some of my projects about 7 Transcend 2.5 SATA SSD 32Gig drives. Do you think I can use one of these for the boot drive and let it access the SSD drive which is pretty fast? Where are these Utubes located?


Re: Backup recovery

Matt 9V1MH/VK3AMH/YF2AAH
 

The SD card is a weak point as they were never designed to run high levels of read write activity over long periods of time.
I have moved all my Pi's to a usb connected ssd and no longer boot from or use an SD card
There are plenty of guides on YouTube on how to do this.


Re: Backup recovery

John Tetreault (WA1OKB)
 

Your best bet is just to regularly backup the entire root directory from the live filesystem.

Rsync is the tool for the job.... This link should get you started... Then just backup regularly to a network drive.



On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 4:00 PM Bo W4GHV <bobarr@...> wrote:
Our little Pi can die in SO MANY WAYS.
One litle mistake and its toast.
I make lots of changes, have a bad short term memory and forget to take notes.
I'm going to work on the note taking.

Fairly good at having backup images, but not always.

Question:
Is there a list of files that can be checked or repaired easily?
How do you access the files on other than the boot directory which is readable on a PC.
The big partition is unreadable on a PC.
Perhaps a list of all the files associated with boot up would be helpful
Any help appreciated.

--
73, Bo W4GHV since '54


Re: Backup recovery

Mark Griffith
 

Bo,

The interesting thing about Linux is there are literally HUNDREDS of files that must be just right for everything to work.  Trying to fix a non-booting system by figuring out what files need to be corrected would be impossible to do on a SD card that got corrupted.

If you make a habit of doing that, you won't be caught.  You should also be careful what changes you make on your system.  If you are not EXACTLY SURE what the result will be, don't make any changes.

There is a reason why you login as the user "pi".  Non-root users can't make dangerous changes to the system files.  Becoming root to do things like that is asking for trouble.

Just my 2 cents as a 30+ year Unix/Linux systems administrator and developer.

Mark
KD0QYN


The only real answer is backup, backups, backup.

On Monday, April 6, 2020, 3:00:20 PM CDT, Bo W4GHV <bobarr@...> wrote:


Our little Pi can die in SO MANY WAYS.
One litle mistake and its toast.
I make lots of changes, have a bad short term memory and forget to take notes.
I'm going to work on the note taking.

Fairly good at having backup images, but not always.

Question:
Is there a list of files that can be checked or repaired easily?
How do you access the files on other than the boot directory which is readable on a PC.
The big partition is unreadable on a PC.
Perhaps a list of all the files associated with boot up would be helpful
Any help appreciated.

--
73, Bo W4GHV since '54


Backup recovery

Bo W4GHV
 

Our little Pi can die in SO MANY WAYS.
One litle mistake and its toast.
I make lots of changes, have a bad short term memory and forget to take notes.
I'm going to work on the note taking.

Fairly good at having backup images, but not always.

Question:
Is there a list of files that can be checked or repaired easily?
How do you access the files on other than the boot directory which is readable on a PC.
The big partition is unreadable on a PC.
Perhaps a list of all the files associated with boot up would be helpful
Any help appreciated.

--
73, Bo W4GHV since '54


Re: APRS-IS passes weather, RF does not

Bill WA4OPQ
 

I have aprx sending weather via RF.

So it appears that it is not the tnc, rather it's the software.

I will let the author of YAAC know.


Re: Looking for a good power supply that will handle a load

Mack Edmonson <mackedmonson@...>
 

Voltage drop across the power connector also.
Mack
W4ENN


On Mar 30, 2020, at 10:44 PM, Bo W4GHV <bobarr@...> wrote:

I found the problem to be the voltage drop in the usb cable. I tried several until I found one that put at least 4.7v at the pi. The wire in those cables is tiny.
--
73, Bo W4GHV since '54


Re: Looking for a good power supply that will handle a load

Ray Cadmus
 

Try canakit.com.  I've bought a couple of their full sets but they offer bits and pieces as well.  Just works.

Regards,

Ray  W9EUM


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 10:44 PM Bo W4GHV <bobarr@...> wrote:
I found the problem to be the voltage drop in the usb cable. I tried several until I found one that put at least 4.7v at the pi. The wire in those cables is tiny.
--
73, Bo W4GHV since '54


Re: Looking for a good power supply that will handle a load

Bo W4GHV
 

I found the problem to be the voltage drop in the usb cable. I tried several until I found one that put at least 4.7v at the pi. The wire in those cables is tiny.
--
73, Bo W4GHV since '54


Re: APRS-IS passes weather, RF does not

John Tetreault (WA1OKB)
 

Direwolf uses wxnow.txt


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020, 12:19 PM Bill WA4OPQ <wa4opq@...> wrote:

Another couple of days of troubleshooting shows the following:

1) It might be the TNC or it might be the APRS client (YAAC). I need to find another client that uses wxnow.txt to determine.

2) It only affects the transmit, so if I put the 9k6 TNC on the iGate and the Pi-TNC on the remote digipeater the data makes it to APRS-IS.

3) However, this workaround is not reliable. The weather data makes it through about 60% of the time. That's a whole new can of worms.


Re: APRS-IS passes weather, RF does not

Bill WA4OPQ
 

Max,

Thanks for the idea. I think that's the way to really know what's going on.

I used to have easy access to logic analyzers and quite an assortment of test equipment. Then I retired and moved away. <sigh>


Re: APRS-IS passes weather, RF does not

Max
 

A small logic analyzer would be almost perfect connected to the serial signal from the pi going to the tnc. You still have to do some manual decoding but the payload of a kiss frame is in plain text. The analyzer I used was the smallest one made by Saleae . Using this allowed me to determine at least where the problem was. If this is on a Pi4 then configure one of the extra serial ports (I think it has five or six but only four a usable at a time due to other conflicts) and connect the output of the serial port connected to the tnc to the input of the extra serial port, then run one of the serial decoders to show the hex and ascii values of your data. Even if you don't know what you're looking at, you should notice a big difference in a good / bad frame. I currently have one of the small bluetooth to serial converters connected much the same way to my pi/tncPi. I connect to it using a table and run AprsDroid. By moving one wire I can see the output of the tnc or the Pi but not both.

Maybe I at least gave you some ideas.

Max KG4PID 

On Monday, March 30, 2020, 11:19:43 AM CDT, Bill WA4OPQ <wa4opq@...> wrote:


Another couple of days of troubleshooting shows the following:

1) It might be the TNC or it might be the APRS client (YAAC). I need to find another client that uses wxnow.txt to determine.

2) It only affects the transmit, so if I put the 9k6 TNC on the iGate and the Pi-TNC on the remote digipeater the data makes it to APRS-IS.

3) However, this workaround is not reliable. The weather data makes it through about 60% of the time. That's a whole new can of worms.


Re: APRS-IS passes weather, RF does not

Bill WA4OPQ
 

Another couple of days of troubleshooting shows the following:

1) It might be the TNC or it might be the APRS client (YAAC). I need to find another client that uses wxnow.txt to determine.

2) It only affects the transmit, so if I put the 9k6 TNC on the iGate and the Pi-TNC on the remote digipeater the data makes it to APRS-IS.

3) However, this workaround is not reliable. The weather data makes it through about 60% of the time. That's a whole new can of worms.


Re: Back Pi Image and Clone SD Card

Max
 

I remember reading a post written by an ex Microsoft QA Tester. His said the company had almost completely eliminated QA. We all became the testers. 

Max KG4PID  

On Monday, March 30, 2020, 08:22:58 AM CDT, Walter <w9kjo@...> wrote:


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 08:50 AM, Mike Erstad wrote:
Walter you sound like me..... I was a certified Apple Technician for many years but also had to service PC's for my job.... My Windows 7 started locking and freezing up so I found the CD's that came with it and they were Windows 8....  Installed and ended up with these great big colored icons to do different things...after figuring out how to make it look more like windows 7 I was much happier and it works very well now...  
Seems like when Windows comes out with a new O/S you have to learn something totally different.... not on a mac nor an Icom ham radio..
Good Luck and take your time....
If it were only the learning curve.  The big problem with Windows 10 are that the updates keep affecting things in such negative ways. 

Windows 10 needs to get themselves under control.  They just have way too many engineers and clearly no accountability.

When you post your problem on the Windows 10 forum windows people never respond its all volunteers and the volunteers usually give you bad info.
 


--
In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
73
Walter Huyck
W9KJO


Re: Back Pi Image and Clone SD Card

Chuck M
 

If you have a 3D printer available, consider something like this for storing micro SD cards.

Printed a different one initially but may give this one a try.

  I use a Sharpie to ID my cards with a letter, then keep a notebook to log what's on each card.  

73s,
Chuck
KD9DVB


On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 2:24 PM, Craig Davidson
<k1bdx.craig@...> wrote:
I store my micro SD cards in the adapter and then use tape to attach
the adapter to a large piece of paper with hand written notes as to
the contents of the SD memory card



On 3/29/20, Max via Groups.Io <kg4pid=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>  I wonder why this is so slow? But I'm sure not going to tie up an extra uSD
> card for every one of my pi's. Want another backup, buy another card. This
> would get expensive. And they are so small they are hard to label as to what
> they are for. Ever dropped one? They are easy to loose.
> Max KG4PID
>    On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 09:53:56 PM CDT, Craig Davidson
> <k1bdx.craig@...> wrote:
>
>  I have been making copies of my SD cards with the Debian Linux DD command
>
> I plug a blank SD card into a USB adapter plugged into the pi
>
> then run this command
>
> dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/dev/sda
>
> a 4 gig card takes about 17 minutes to copy
> a 16 gig card takes 1 hour 15 minutes.
>
> Here is a link to a typical USB adapter.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/i/401830853171
>
> I purchased a 10 pack of sandisk 16 gig SD cards and a USB adapter
> came with the purchase.
>
>
> On 3/28/20, Mark Griffith via Groups.Io
> <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>>  I installed Win32DiskImage on my Win10 laptop, and it worked just like
>> it
>> should.
>> Sorry I can't help more.
>> MarkKD0QYN
>>
>>    On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 10:09:10 AM CDT, Mark Griffith via
>> Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>>
>>  I have used Win32DiskImager many times to back my SD cards, but it was
>> always on Windows 7.  I have a Windows 10 laptop, so perhaps I should try
>> it
>> there and see how it goes. I'll try it today.
>> MarkKD0QYN
>>
>>    On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 10:00:59 AM CDT, Walter <w9kjo@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I have used Win32DiskImager I dont know how may times to backup and
>> clone
>> images.
>>
>> But today I spent an hour trying to get it to backup my image so I could
>> rewrite it to a larger SD card and all I get is "There is not enough room
>> on
>> the drive"  It is the whole hard drive in my PC, massive volume.  I am
>> trying to write to am image I am creating on the hard Drive of my Windows
>> 10
>> PC.  That is the probelm Windows 10; boy i hate windows 10.
>>
>> I have done this so many times I can count them, but it is not working
>> today.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me how to get this to work.  Again I am trying to write
>> the
>> image from my SD card to my harddrive to backup the image.
>>
>> Thanks for any help in advance
>>
>> 73 W9KJO
>>
>> --
>> In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
>> 73
>> Walter Huyck
>> W9KJO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




Re: Back Pi Image and Clone SD Card

Walter
 

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 08:50 AM, Mike Erstad wrote:
Walter you sound like me..... I was a certified Apple Technician for many years but also had to service PC's for my job.... My Windows 7 started locking and freezing up so I found the CD's that came with it and they were Windows 8....  Installed and ended up with these great big colored icons to do different things...after figuring out how to make it look more like windows 7 I was much happier and it works very well now...  
Seems like when Windows comes out with a new O/S you have to learn something totally different.... not on a mac nor an Icom ham radio..
Good Luck and take your time....
If it were only the learning curve.  The big problem with Windows 10 are that the updates keep affecting things in such negative ways. 

Windows 10 needs to get themselves under control.  They just have way too many engineers and clearly no accountability.

When you post your problem on the Windows 10 forum windows people never respond its all volunteers and the volunteers usually give you bad info.
 


--
In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
73
Walter Huyck
W9KJO


Re: Back Pi Image and Clone SD Card

Walter
 

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 11:06 AM, james wrote:

walter download etcher   on windows 10 then you well have no problems

On 3/29/2020 2:53 AM, Walter wrote:
I got it working.  Win32 Disk Imager.  I am running it in comparability mode for Windows 7.

Stupid Windows 10.  Seriously considering rolling my PC back to Windows 7.  Every update in Windows 10 brings new problems

Thanks Everyone
--
In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
73
Walter Huyck
W9KJO

 I have etcher as well a recent download.  I would not work after the last update either.  Both etcher and Win32DiscImager are running in Window7 capability mode

So your assumptions about etcher are not correct.  Sad to say

--
In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
73
Walter Huyck
W9KJO


Re: Back Pi Image and Clone SD Card

Craig Davidson
 

I store my micro SD cards in the adapter and then use tape to attach
the adapter to a large piece of paper with hand written notes as to
the contents of the SD memory card

On 3/29/20, Max via Groups.Io <kg4pid=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I wonder why this is so slow? But I'm sure not going to tie up an extra uSD
card for every one of my pi's. Want another backup, buy another card. This
would get expensive. And they are so small they are hard to label as to what
they are for. Ever dropped one? They are easy to loose.
Max KG4PID
On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 09:53:56 PM CDT, Craig Davidson
<k1bdx.craig@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been making copies of my SD cards with the Debian Linux DD command

I plug a blank SD card into a USB adapter plugged into the pi

then run this command

dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/dev/sda

a 4 gig card takes about 17 minutes to copy
a 16 gig card takes 1 hour 15 minutes.

Here is a link to a typical USB adapter.

https://www.ebay.com/i/401830853171

I purchased a 10 pack of sandisk 16 gig SD cards and a USB adapter
came with the purchase.


On 3/28/20, Mark Griffith via Groups.Io
<mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I installed Win32DiskImage on my Win10 laptop, and it worked just like
it
should.
Sorry I can't help more.
MarkKD0QYN

On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 10:09:10 AM CDT, Mark Griffith via
Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have used Win32DiskImager many times to back my SD cards, but it was
always on Windows 7. I have a Windows 10 laptop, so perhaps I should try
it
there and see how it goes. I'll try it today.
MarkKD0QYN

On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 10:00:59 AM CDT, Walter <w9kjo@arrl.net>
wrote:

I have used Win32DiskImager I dont know how may times to backup and
clone
images.

But today I spent an hour trying to get it to backup my image so I could
rewrite it to a larger SD card and all I get is "There is not enough room
on
the drive" It is the whole hard drive in my PC, massive volume. I am
trying to write to am image I am creating on the hard Drive of my Windows
10
PC. That is the probelm Windows 10; boy i hate windows 10.

I have done this so many times I can count them, but it is not working
today.

Can anyone tell me how to get this to work. Again I am trying to write
the
image from my SD card to my harddrive to backup the image.

Thanks for any help in advance

73 W9KJO

--
In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
73
Walter Huyck
W9KJO









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