Date   

Re: RPi models

Teton Amateur Radio Repeater Association (TARRA)
 

I have 4 new Pi 4 on the way. I was going to go with the 3B but when I could buy the 4 for less money it was a no brainer for me.

On my wish list, I wish the Pi would also have audio in as well as out. Then an external sound card wouldn't be needed. Must need to much space or expense to do that. Hopefully some day.

Mick - W7CAT


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tadd KA2DEW in NC via Groups.Io"
To: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2019 09:18:14 AM
Subject: Re: [RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio] RPi models

> A key reason to get a 4B is so you can run things on a 4B. If somebody on the group says “it ain’t working” about some app or another, and you come back with a “sure it is”, it is good to be able to qualify with a sure-it-is on a 3B+ or 4B or both or some such. In each revision, the computer has gotten more powerful. They keep solving problems and improving, at the expense of previous problems and previous stability. I like that they keep adding new features while keeping the price the same.
>
> I figure that by the time the Raspberry Pi 5 comes out in 2021 or so, the 4B will have most of it’s problems worked out, worked around, or at least understood, and the people who came into the hobby between 2019 and 2021 will be all about how unstable the 5 is and how damned are the people who want to move beyond the 4. haha.
>
> I’d go with the latest and greatest. For me it is silly to get the older one. Most of the newbs will get the new one if only because the old one is harder to find and runs a little slower. The accessories will be focused on the new one. IF your hobby has participant churn, or expands (in participants), eventually more people will have newer units than older. That means testing of accessories and apps will be focused on the new one. Bugs will be fought using the new ones.
>
> I have a 6 year old ham radio project that runs on Raspberry PIs connected to each other over cheap modems across VHF and UHF FM radios over a 5 county region in central North Carolina. We have about 25 connected participants, and another 190 who are disparate. Our group now has its own modem hardware, and our own UI based on Tornado and Python, our own UPS. This has been (and hopefully will continue to be) an amazing experience. Part of my thing is technical support and documentation. I maintain a web page at http://ncpacket.net . and another at http://tarpn.net . about the same project. I have to (and enjoy) test each of the variants of the Raspberry PI and get our installer and run-time scripting to work on different Raspberry PIs. I support the B, Bv2, 2B, 3B, 3B+, 4B.
> The biggest differences were
> 28 vs 40 pin expansion bus
> I2C bus moved between the A and B, which is why we dismissed the A and earlier.
> adding Bluetooth, because it changed the expansion bus serial port compatibility, between 2B and older, and 3B and newer.
> Adding WiFi, because we didn’t need dongles anymore
> Upping the power supply voltage because 5v [apparently] caused SDcard corruption starting at the 3B or 3B+.
> Changing power connectors and video outputs between 3B+ and 4B
>
> There have been bugs all along too. The serial port thing on the 3B took a while to settle out. The OS changed the way we launch background apps.
> On the 4B, one of the two video outputs is inactive in NOOBS. That has caused some grief!
> 4B wants a little heatsink where the older Raspberry PI would run ok without them (if the units were operated indoors)
> Setting the video output on 4B to specific screen resolution(s?) causes and RF spur sufficient to impact WiFi reception!
>
> And so on.
> Have fun! Tadd / KA2DEW
>
> Tadd / KA2DEW
> tadd@...
> Raleigh NC FM05pv
>
> “Packet networking over ham radio": http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html
> North Carolina Packet Radio Network: http://ncpacket.net/north_carolina_packet_network.html
> Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a
>
> > On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:54 AM, Mark Griffith via Groups.Io wrote:
> >
> > As I said, there will be many lurkers who will want to correct me. I am "in the loop". Perhaps not the same on as you.
> >
> > Just sayin'
> >
> > Mark Griffith
> > KD0QYN
> >
> > On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 7:31:53 AM CST, colin humphries <3humps@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If there is "nothing wrong with it" then you clearly aren't "in the loop" reference the choice of 4K OR WiFi can't have both. Might want to check you facts, just saying.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 05:56 Mark Griffith via Groups.Io > wrote:
> > Michael,
> >
> > The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation. They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.
> >
> > The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one. There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different. It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things. If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.
> >
> > The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one. Also some better USB support for faster HD access. The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.
> >
> > These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.
> >
> > The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.
> >
> > I've simplified the differences here. I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2. The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.
> >
> > For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4. It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi. You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem. Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all. That is the advantage of using the newer hardware. I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that. All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.
> >
> > If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm. But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing. I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use. I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference. It worked the same as before.
> >
> > The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too. You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4. That's the only issue. Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases. If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it. I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.
> >
> > The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't. You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.
> >
> > Mark
> > KD0QYN
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG > wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
> > cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
> > doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
> > keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
> > units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
> > monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
> > production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?
> >
> > tnx es 73,
> >
> > Michael WA7SKG
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--


Re: RPi models

Bob Bennett
 

As the adage goes, "If it aint broke, dont fix it". I have a stack of 7 Pi3's that I upgraded from Pi2's. I run a bunch of satellite stuff, monitor clusters, monitor flightaware at local airports, wsjtx, and other misc tasks. I also used to run a Pi-
TNC from one. They all work and work well.
    I recently purchased 3 Pi4's. I have been a fan of them since meeting the creator and an AMSAT dinner in Dayton. They are all excellent and I have started to find additional things to do with them, like FT8 with my TX-990 (the 3's were just  little too slow for that). I have also put one on the satallites and an trying (with much difficulty) to set up one with my 2 Pi TNC's.
   The long and short is the adage in my first sentence. I was going to replace the 3'3. but there really is no need to. If you want to experiment and try different things the Pi4, that is what it was made for - experimentation and learning.
   One thing to be aware of, is the Pi4 can run hot and an exhaust fan is recommended (really required). If you want to stack them, like I have my Pi3's thiink about how to keep the CPU and one other chip cool. I also have the panel app that monitors the temp (I do that for all my Pi's).
   Last but not least. If it's fun. Do it!

NZ2Z


Re: RPi models

 

A key reason to get a 4B is so you can run things on a 4B.  If somebody on the group says “it ain’t working” about some app or another, and you come back with a “sure it is”, it is good to be able to qualify with a sure-it-is on a 3B+ or 4B or both or some such.  In each revision, the computer has gotten more powerful.  They keep solving problems and improving, at the expense of previous problems and previous stability.   I like that they keep adding new features while keeping the price the same.  

I figure that by the time the Raspberry Pi 5 comes out in 2021 or so, the 4B will have most of it’s problems worked out, worked around, or at least understood, and the people who came into the hobby between 2019 and 2021 will be all about how unstable the 5 is and how damned are the people who want to move beyond the 4.  haha. 

I’d go with the latest and greatest.  For me it is silly to get the older one.  Most of the newbs will get the new one if only because the old one is harder to find and runs a little slower.  The accessories will be focused on the new one.  IF your hobby has participant churn, or expands (in participants), eventually more people will have newer units than older.  That means testing of accessories and apps will be focused on the new one.  Bugs will be fought using the new ones.  

I have a 6 year old ham radio project that runs on Raspberry PIs connected to each other over cheap modems across VHF and UHF FM radios over a 5 county region in central North Carolina.  We have about 25 connected participants, and another 190 who are disparate.  Our group now has its own modem hardware, and our own UI based on Tornado and Python, our own UPS.  This has been (and hopefully will continue to be) an amazing experience.  Part of my thing is technical support and documentation.  I maintain a web page at http://ncpacket.net. and another at http://tarpn.net.  about the same project.  I have to (and enjoy) test each of the variants of the Raspberry PI and get our installer and run-time scripting to work on different Raspberry PIs.  I support the B, Bv2, 2B, 3B, 3B+, 4B.  
The biggest differences were 
28 vs 40 pin expansion bus
I2C bus moved between the A and B, which is why we dismissed the A and earlier.  
adding Bluetooth, because it changed the expansion bus serial port compatibility, between 2B and older, and 3B and newer.  
Adding WiFi, because we didn’t need dongles anymore
Upping the power supply voltage because 5v [apparently] caused SDcard corruption starting at the 3B or 3B+.  
Changing power connectors and video outputs between 3B+ and 4B

There have been bugs all along too.  The serial port thing on the 3B took a while to settle out.  The OS changed the way we launch background apps.  
On the 4B, one of the two video outputs is inactive in NOOBS.  That has caused some grief!   
4B wants a little heatsink where the older Raspberry PI would run ok without them (if the units were operated indoors)
Setting the video output on 4B to specific screen resolution(s?) causes and RF spur sufficient to impact WiFi reception!  

And so on.  
   Have fun!    Tadd / KA2DEW

Tadd / KA2DEW
tadd@...
Raleigh NC  FM05pv

“Packet networking over ham radio": http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html
North Carolina Packet Radio Network: http://ncpacket.net/north_carolina_packet_network.html
Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a

On Dec 5, 2019, at 8:54 AM, Mark Griffith via Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003@...> wrote:

As I said, there will be many lurkers who will want to correct me.  I am "in the loop".  Perhaps not the same on as you.

Just sayin'

Mark Griffith
KD0QYN

On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 7:31:53 AM CST, colin humphries <3humps@...> wrote:


If there is "nothing wrong with it" then you clearly aren't "in the loop"  reference the choice of 4K OR WiFi can't have both. Might want to check you facts, just saying.

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 05:56 Mark Griffith via Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:


I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG





Re: RPi models

John Mathieson
 

I have 5 pi's of various vintages running at home and one running at a remote location.  Aside from cache size and faster processor, I can think of not burning need to go to the model 4.   If you are doing a fair amount of graphics work then the switch might help but otherwise I am not sure of the benefits.  Just my thoughts.

John AC8JW


Re: My experience with the ham load by W3DJS

Marty Hartwell
 

Sorry to add here but I Terry may not have much of a sense of humor. It was fairly obvious

to me that what Terry is talking about was intentional misdirection for humors sake. Oh well.

The tone of of Terry's post here is more demeaning than helpful in my not so humble opinion.


Marty


On 12/4/19 3:20 AM, Terry L. Morris wrote:


It is obvious from your rhetoric that you know a little about what you're saying or some of the terms but not enough to comment. Not sure if you have a problem with Linux command line, the hotspot script, taped archive file system and command line command, or lack of knowledge about compilation times. I suggest that you purchase a book from your local bookstore and read it. Keep a notepad and writing implement next to it to jot notes. I suggest one titles Learn Linux in 24 hours. (Actual time is about a month if you follow the lessons.) You don't decompress a tar with the command sudo apt-get and superuser privileges are not required to open the text editor called nano. You could open a <name-of-archive.tar.gz> with a windows Zip program. A problem with documentation is most windows users won't read it. They have been accustomed to "Point and Click" and reading how something functions requires too much effort. Like "If at all possible when things like this come along if someone could just type the commands in sequential order, where the average Ham could follow and be successful that would be a godsend." Before Linux, there was minix and Unix. Then DOS followed by GEOS, Graphical Evironment Operating System on Commodore computers. Then along comes Windows and a few years later the linux kernel that developed into a command line operating system. Around 1999 some smart programmers developed a graphical user interface, front end, for the Linux operating system. Most of today's Linux users are converts from Windows. I would venture to guess that most of us learned about Linux by reading and then performing what we read on our computers. You don't learn Linux overnight. It requires practice of use.

Good Luck.

 

 


Re: PI4B File Explorer Won't Open

Terry L. Morris
 

Walter,
Did you run the command uname -a from the command line? This gives you the version of the kernel.

Pertaining to the file manager name. Mouse over 'Help' and left click. Scroll down to 'About' and left click. The name of the file manager will be displayed. On the Pi it is probably called Thunar file manager.

I am not clear what problem you had other than not knowing what is the version of the kernel you had before the full-upgrade. We probably won't know the real problem or ways of fixing it now.

Have a nice day...


Re: PI4B File Explorer Won't Open

Mark Griffith
 

I don't want to discourage anyone, but I'd like to point out that this discussion group is for amateur radio applications and the Raspberry Pi computers.  It's not a general discussion on Linux issues.

Not that I really care, I don't mind hitting the delete button, but I wanted to point out that there are many other forums and discussion groups that could help you more with your Linux, non-ham applications issues.  While there may be a few knowledgeable hams here, there would be more on discussion groups that are specific to Linux and the Raspbian OS.

Just my two cents.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 9:04:12 AM CST, Terry Morris <terry.kb8amz@...> wrote:


sudo apt full-upgrade
This doesn't fix the problem. It merely covers over the problem with an upgraded version.

Terry - KB8AMZ
Brimfield Twp, OH USA EN91hd
Linux User# 412308, Ubuntu User# 34905, PCARS#78, NAQCC#6668, QRP-ARCI#8855, SKCC#14195


Re: PI4B File Explorer Won't Open

Terry Morris
 

sudo apt full-upgrade
This doesn't fix the problem. It merely covers over the problem with an upgraded version.

Terry - KB8AMZ
Brimfield Twp, OH USA EN91hd
Linux User# 412308, Ubuntu User# 34905, PCARS#78, NAQCC#6668, QRP-ARCI#8855, SKCC#14195


Re: RPi models

Mark Griffith
 

As I said, there will be many lurkers who will want to correct me.  I am "in the loop".  Perhaps not the same on as you.

Just sayin'

Mark Griffith
KD0QYN

On Thursday, December 5, 2019, 7:31:53 AM CST, colin humphries <3humps@...> wrote:


If there is "nothing wrong with it" then you clearly aren't "in the loop"  reference the choice of 4K OR WiFi can't have both. Might want to check you facts, just saying.

On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 05:56 Mark Griffith via Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:


I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG




Re: RPi models

colin humphries <3humps@...>
 

If there is "nothing wrong with it" then you clearly aren't "in the loop"  reference the choice of 4K OR WiFi can't have both. Might want to check you facts, just saying.


On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 05:56 Mark Griffith via Groups.Io <mdgriffith2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:


I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG




Re: RPi models

Mark Griffith
 

Michael,

The Raspberry Pi mini-computers are a continuing effort by the Raspberry Pi Foundation.  They will release new versions as their development progresses just like all manufacturers.

The Raspberry Pi4 is just the latest one.  There are no problems with it, just some people complaining that it's different.  It was developed mostly for the people that want to do a lot of video processing, gaming, and very highly CPU intensive things.  If you don't need to do highly intensive processing, you really don't need to get one.

The only advantage of the Pi4 over a Pi 3B+ is more CPU speed, much faster processing due to changes in the hardware and 2 HDMI video ports instead of one.  Also some better USB support for faster HD access.  The Pi4 also has some better WiFi capabilities, but just minimally better.

These differences aren't going to make your APRS function better, or your radio more sensitive.

The Pi3B+ only advantage over a Pi3 is 5GHz WiFi capabilities and better USB support.

I've simplified the differences here.  I'm sure there will be lots of group members to correct me, but the point is, you don't need to upgrade to newer hardware if you are perfectly satisfied with a Pi3 or even a Pi2.  The Raspberry Pi Foundation is still producing all the older versions and they are still available to buy.

For example, the PiGate emergency email system can run perfectly well on a Pi3, 3B+ or 4.  It won't work *AS* well on an older Pi2 or B+ because they don't have built-in WiFi.  You can add WiFi in the form of a dongle, but then getting the correct driver is a problem.  Not so with all the newer devices as the driver is the same on all.  That is the advantage of using the newer hardware.  I only have a Pi4 to make sure my software runs on it as I know people will want to do that.  All my personal PiGate devices all run on a Pi3.

If you want to use a Pi4, just because you want to, you'll probably have to get a new case, and maybe a case with a fan since they do get a little warm.  But you really don't need a fan unless you are going to do CPU intensive processing.  I have one that I use for development, in a case without a fan, and it has had no issues for months of continuous use.  I moved it to a case with a fan just to see what difference that would make, and it did reduce the temperature, but to the Pi4, it really didn't make any difference.  It worked the same as before.

The same heating issue also applies to all the earlier versions too.  You'll need a new case only because the case opening to access the HDMI ports on the older cases won't work on the Pi4.  That's the only issue.  Some manufacturers are talking about the heating issue so they can sell their special cases.  If a shiny aluminum case for $20 for your $55 computer makes you feel better, go for it.  I applaud the efforts of people to make a buck if they can.

The bottom line is if you don't want to buy the "latest and the greatest", don't.  You will be able to buy and old Pi3 for years.

Mark
KD0QYN


On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:53:10 PM CST, Michael WA7SKG <wa7skg@...> wrote:


I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like
cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been
doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than
keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my
units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and
monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has
production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG




Re: RPi models

James French
 

I'd say stock up with some if you get the chance.

The only reason I have my three 3+ model b's are that I needed the extra power to do a couple of things. Otherwise, I have a 2+, 2 model b+'s, a model a+, and seven various models of zeros.

I'm not going to breakdown and get a 4+ since I haven't even utilized all that I have.

James W8ISS 


Re: My experience with the ham load by W3DJS

isisdave@...
 

I'm another oldie-but-goodie, 70+ years, whose first exposure to Unix was on PDP-9, -11, and -15s in the early 70s. I've spent most of my professional life in the Windows world with only occasional (and not recent!) jaunts back to -ix-land, but can still farble around in Linux when necessary, to a point.

Specifically, THIS point: An awful lot of Linux online advice sites seem to make the assumption that the petitioner has a LOT more background than he probably has. And responses there are likely to omit consideration of prerequisites, probably because they are so well integrated into the responding brain that it doesn't need to consider them.  

Of course the same thing is probably true of Windows advice sites ....

So when offering advice to newbies who can barely find the keyboard, please take a moment or three to be more verbose than you think necessary!

Thanks so much

Dave KF6XA


RPi models

Michael WA7SKG
 

I've seen a lot of comments about issues with the Raspberry Pi 4, like cases not fitting, needing cooling, etc. For all the stuff I've been doing, my collection of RPi3B+ have been working fine. Other than keeping up with the Joneses, is there a burning need to upgrade my units? They work fine for the various applications, like APRS and monitoring things, that I use. Are RPi3B+ still available? Or has production/distribution ceased when the 4s came out?

tnx es 73,

Michael WA7SKG


Re: PI4B File Explorer Won't Open

Gord
 

Hi again Walter, did you try the command line:
sudo apt full-upgrade
That might fix your problem with the file window.
73 Gord

On 12/4/2019 8:24:27 PM, Walter <w9kjo@...> wrote:

You are right sorry for using a windows term like "file explorer"  I guess I don't know what it is called on the PI.
--
In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
73
Walter Huyck
W9KJO


Re: PI4B File Explorer Won't Open

Walter
 

Thank you very much Gord that fixed it.


--
In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
73
Walter Huyck
W9KJO


Re: PI4B File Explorer Won't Open

Walter
 

You are right sorry for using a windows term like "file explorer"  I guess I don't know what it is called on the PI.
--
In Christ, Until He Come, Perhaps Today . . .
73
Walter Huyck
W9KJO


Re: My experience with the ham load by W3DJS

Eric
 

Systemd, or not, makes yet another issue that determines the solution that works.


Eric


Re: My experience with the ham load by W3DJS

Charles Gallo
 

On 2019-12-04 17:20, Ray Wells wrote:


I believe it pays to get a good beginner's book like "Linux for Dummies" because it handles learning in a simple, lighthearted way, and it pays to forget what you know about the "Window's way". Apart from some Windows "cmd" tools like PING, and an \ETC directory in the \Windows\System directory, Windows has little (nothing?) else in common with Linux. 

Unless you run WSL

https://itsfoss.com/bash-on-windows/

;)



--  
Charles Gallo
http://www.thegallos.com


Re: My experience with the ham load by W3DJS

Ray Wells
 

So that nobody makes an incorrect assumption about what follows, I'm not taking sides, I'm not criticising anybody, and I'm not criticising Windows.

As someone who started learning Linux in 1994 before I had internet available to search for help, and living in a rural location with the nearest book shop 300km away, I know how frustrating it can be to learn Linux. The learning curve is more like a brick wall than a curve! And, BTW, after 25 years this 73 year old doesn't consider himself proficient in Linux, but I can sort out most problems that arise. I don't for a single moment regret the pain I went through trying to learn Linux. Did using command line with cp/m and DOS in the days before the GUI help? Undoubtedly, and it even helped (helps) in Windows where some functions must be handled from the "cmd" prompt. I have not had any formal training in computers. I am 100% self-taught, and I've asked a lot of (sometimes stupid) questions along the way.

I believe it pays to get a good beginner's book like "Linux for Dummies" because it handles learning in a simple, lighthearted way, and it pays to forget what you know about the "Window's way". Apart from some Windows "cmd" tools like PING, and an \ETC directory in the \Windows\System directory, Windows has little (nothing?) else in common with Linux. 
I suggest a book like Linux for Dummies because so much Linux documentation seems to ignore the vital first few steps on the learning ladder and plunges into complex, irrelevant examples that only serve to confuse the newcomer, and the Linux man pages, as prolific as they are, seem to me to be written BY people who don't need them, FOR people who don't need them. I appreciate that a lot of good people put a lot of time into writing man pages but they are not intuitive. It seems that Linux for Dummies still exists according to - https://www.dummies.com/computers/operating-systems/linux/linux-for-dummies-cheat-sheet/ - and the list of commands on that page might help some newcomers to Linux.

And when searching online for help for a specific problem, be aware that different distributions may handle some things in a different way so that the "surefire fix" you're reading may not work for your distro or in your circumstances. It can and does happen that way.

How is this relevant to the title you ask? Users are having difficulty with command line instructions associated with the title, and I want to encourage those individuals to not give up, no matter how difficult the road is at times. Slowly, things will gel, things will make sense, and you'll make progress. I encourage you to first try to find the answers by yourself, but I also encourage you to ask questions in places like this when you fail to get the answers you need. Finally, I encourage those more knowledgeable to be more understanding when replying to newcomers who don't use correct terminology when asking questions. You were probably in their shoes at some point in time.

Written in the spirit of ham radio.

Ray vk2tv
Licensed for 50 years.


On 5/12/19 4:38 am, Terry L. Morris wrote:
Al, thanks for the response. Your explanation cleared the air a bit. FYI, I am a 74 years old computer geek, mostly self taught from the early days of 8 bit with some college programming classes thrown when IBM punch cards represented one line of code. I was happy as a General Class for 31 years until several peers kept egging me on to take the Extra Class. The Extra Class was never a problem. Even though taking the test for fun and passing the test twice didn't count I was still troubled with the Advanced test. With the new licensing structure that excluded Novice and Advanced License Classes those peers continued bother me until I gave in and studied the test pool and passed. I've been an Extra Class for almost 2 years. I began hosting a Linux for Hams group 5 years ago. Like CW, I host that group too, there is a minority of Hams in my club that have an interest in Linux. Primarily due to the Raspberry Pi. Two years ago I urged my group to focus our Linux attentions on the use of Raspberry Pi's for amateur radio and learn Linux at the same time. I remember that the first couple of meetings more people showed up than seats were available. Attendance has slacked off over time. The people that want to learn Linux and the applications that run on Linux still come to the group, but they need to be spoon fed. Not too much command line. I print out handouts. It seems the younger generation are not apt to take notes. To ensure they are reading the handout material each person is required to read a few sentences. Without this exercise nothing gets read. I can't explain why the younger generation is reluctant to take notes or read, but its been my experience that they are.
Best 72 DE KB8AMZ, Terry

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