Date   

Re: RPi-zero 2 W heat issues

N5XMT
 

what trends in CPU usage are you seeing with top while running fldigi vs other software?  is it constantly at 40% CPU?  


On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 10:25 AM Vic WA4THR via groups.io <vhklein=ptd.net@groups.io> wrote:
Some good ideas here. Note, I have more than enough speed to run Fldigi and WSJT-X with the zero 2...no issues with that and I think there is some excess capability, which is why I was thinking of "underclocking". I had run the original Pi-zero overclocked about 10%, but never had any heat issues.

The Swap file only gets to about 70%, as does memory usage in the worst case and usually less. CPU usage is below 40%. The only issue has been heat buildup and shutdown, and only when running Fldigi. I can delay it by leaving the top off the small case, but as room temps rise into the 70's even that is not enough. I just checked and the "slow CPU" option was automatically selected on the 4.1.01 version I am using. The diplay is optimized for the little 8" display on the Kindle Fire I am using to interface with the Pi. Bluetooth is off, but the WiFi is a critical part as the unit is running headless and linking to a simple tablet in the field, even out of WiFi range using it as a hotspot.

Is there a heatsink somewhere that is the same size as the whole Pi-zero that could substitute for the plastic top of the Vilros mini-case or something similar? That roughly 800% increase in surface might do the job.

=Vic=


Re: RPi-zero 2 W heat issues

Charles Albert
 

Indeed, the FLRIC case is the one, dissipates the heat, does the job.


Re: Install problem w/putty

Tomasz Zajdel
 

You don't need to run putty with sudo. Also, if you need to ssh to other machine you can use ssh as a command:
ssh some.host
and putty isn't needed here :)

Pozdrawiam serdecznie,
Tomasz A. Zajdel

73! de SQ5T (ex. SQ8JMD)


pon., 22 lis 2021 o 23:03 John <radio@...> napisał(a):

After installing putty, when I try starting it this appears:

pi@hampi:~ $ sudo putty
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.286: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.298: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.307: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
pi@hampi:~ $ 
------------------------------------

What does this mean?  How can I fix it?

John, W0GN


Re: Install problem w/putty

David Lane
 

So, first question is why are you installing putty? SSH is already installed and the default secure shell.

The error is a problem with the GTK toolkit and a quick Google search shows: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1905268

And a couple of upstream fixes on the Red Hat stream and a fix for it with an X hack. It seems to be a common error for anything using GTK. Not sure there is an easy fix, based on this conversation: https://groups.google.com/g/wx-users/c/VRO0OORxJno

Did you do an update/upgrade before you installed putty? Might want to do that first. 

$ sudo apt-get update
$ sudo apt-get upgrade

May not fix the problem though. Stick with SSH. 

David

---
David A. Lane, KG4GIY
EC/RO Prince William County ARES®/RACES
+1.703.628.3868
http://www.pwcares.org/
IM: kg4giy

On Nov 22, 2021, at 17:03, John <radio@...> wrote:

After installing putty, when I try starting it this appears:

pi@hampi:~ $ sudo putty
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.286: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.298: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.307: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
pi@hampi:~ $ 
------------------------------------

What does this mean?  How can I fix it?

John, W0GN


Install problem w/putty

John
 

After installing putty, when I try starting it this appears:

pi@hampi:~ $ sudo putty
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.286: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.298: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
 
(putty:2651): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 15:44:33.307: gtk_box_gadget_distribute: assertion 'size >= 0' failed in GtkScrollbar
pi@hampi:~ $ 
------------------------------------

What does this mean?  How can I fix it?

John, W0GN


Re: RPi-zero 2 W heat issues

Vic WA4THR
 

I switched to the aluminum FLIRC Pi-zero case and my problem is solved! With continuous FLdigi use the temperature of the processor is not getting over 115F (46C) and no more shutdowns. That is a very nice package. Also, not seeing any WiFi issues, but I am seldom more than 6ft from the Pi so if it is slightly attenuated I am not seeing it on the router or the tablet.

=Vic=


Re: Before I go reinventing someone elses wheel....

Jeremy Edwards
 

Curious how this topic progressed have any solutions been tried that I could learn from? 


Jeremy Edwards

"To acquire knowledge, one must study; but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, 7:13 AM Jeremy Edwards via groups.io <mini338=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Spitballing an idea....

I wonder if you might consider setting up a HTML page with live system info on the PI...

...and then use a free monitoring tool like uptime robot to get your emails:



Jeremy Edwards

"To acquire knowledge, one must study; but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."


On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 8:05 AM Basil Gunn <basil@...> wrote:

Mike,

I've done something similar with detecting when my well pump comes on.
The email part was pretty straight forward because Linux has a number of
command line email clients.

I used:
  mutt - email client
  postfix - email server
  paclink-unix - winlink support

For the AC detection circuit I used a Linrose B2150A3 Amber Neon Pilot light as
an Opto-isolated AC Voltage Sensor. Some links below for reference:

* [[https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=403547.0 | How to detect AC voltage (not measuring)]]
* [[https://www.hackster.io/porrey/vacsensor-0fe427 | Opto-Isolated AC Voltage Sensor]] - Daniel Porrey
* [[https://www.amazon.com/Linrose-B2150A3-Amber-105-125VAC-Pilot/dp/B008JFSOQU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1439643695&sr=8-3&keywords=Linrose+pilot+light | Linrose B2150A3 Amber 105-125VAC Neon Pilot Light]]

I would run the RPi from 12 Volts using some buck regulator.

/Basil n7nix






Re: Heat sinks

Jim Higgins
 

Received from Doc Dowd, W1DOC at 11/17/2021 14:55 UTC:

Maybe "up your heat sink" game:
Use a copper, rather than an aluminum heat sink. It transfers heat more efficiently.
Fins are only effective if you are using a cooling fan to move the air around.
Use thermal paste instead of a stick on pad.

Copper has about 40% better heat conduction, but the heat sink to air conduction is about the same so with the small size and large surface copper vs aluminum won't make much difference. Also, it can be really hard to find copper heat sinks.

73 de Jim, KB3PU


Re: Heat sinks

Box1600
 

I am using this with my Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W and it works well.

Has a built in heatsink.

I too used some thermal grease.


Amazon.com Return Policy: You may return any new computer purchased from Amazon.com that is "dead on arrival," arrives in damaged condition, or is still in unopened boxes, for a full refund within 30 days of purchase. Amazon.com reserves the right to test "dead on arrival" returns and impose a customer fee equal to 15 percent of the product sales price if the customer misrepresents the ...
www.amazon.com

73 - Bill KA8VIT/W8COD



From: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io <RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io> on behalf of Ken Curtis via groups.io <kcurtis51@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 12:01 PM
To: RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io <RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RaspberryPi-4-HamRadio] Heat sinks
 

The issue/problem is with a RPi zero 2 W overheating, whereas this case specifies that it is for a RPi 4. Totally different case requirements. However, this case DOES SHOW it is for a zero 2 W, and it shows a heat sink:

https://coolcomponents.co.uk/collections/cases-enclosures/products/raspberry-pi-zero-2-w-case

Maybe it will work?

Ken KC3ROF

On 11/17/2021 10:10 AM, Tadd KA2DEW in NC via groups.io wrote:
have you seen the FLIRC case? 

It makes a marvelous heat sync, is quiet and looks good. 
The downsides of it is access to internal connectors requires opening the case, and the WiFi / Bluetooth performance suffers.  



Tadd / KA2DEW  http://qrz.com/db/ka2dew
tadd@...
Raleigh NC  FM05pv

North Carolina ham-radio chatRoom Network: http://ncpacket.net/north_carolina_packet_radio_network.html
Packet networking over ham radio: http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html
Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a
Ham Shack Hotline # 11173

On Nov 17, 2021, at 9:55 AM, Doc Dowd, W1DOC <bdowd48@...> wrote:

Maybe "up your heat sink" game:
Use a copper, rather than an aluminum heat sink. It transfers heat more efficiently.
Fins are only effective if you are using a cooling fan to move the air around.
Use thermal paste instead of a stick on pad.


Re: Heat sinks

Jim Higgins
 

It comes with two interchangeable tops. One has a higher clearance to clear a heat sink, but it doesn't include the heat sink.

73 de Jim, KB3PU


Received from Ken Curtis via groups.io at 11/17/2021 17:01 UTC:

The issue/problem is with a RPi zero 2 W overheating, whereas this case specifies that it is for a RPi 4. Totally different case requirements. However, this case DOES SHOW it is for a zero 2 W, and it shows a heat sink:

<https://coolcomponents.co.uk/collections/cases-enclosures/products/raspberry-pi-zero-2-w-case>https://coolcomponents.co.uk/collections/cases-enclosures/products/raspberry-pi-zero-2-w-case

Maybe it will work?

Ken KC3ROF


Re: Heat sinks

Ken Curtis
 

The issue/problem is with a RPi zero 2 W overheating, whereas this case specifies that it is for a RPi 4. Totally different case requirements. However, this case DOES SHOW it is for a zero 2 W, and it shows a heat sink:

https://coolcomponents.co.uk/collections/cases-enclosures/products/raspberry-pi-zero-2-w-case

Maybe it will work?

Ken KC3ROF

On 11/17/2021 10:10 AM, Tadd KA2DEW in NC via groups.io wrote:
have you seen the FLIRC case? 

It makes a marvelous heat sync, is quiet and looks good. 
The downsides of it is access to internal connectors requires opening the case, and the WiFi / Bluetooth performance suffers.  



Tadd / KA2DEW  http://qrz.com/db/ka2dew
tadd@...
Raleigh NC  FM05pv

North Carolina ham-radio chatRoom Network: http://ncpacket.net/north_carolina_packet_radio_network.html
Packet networking over ham radio: http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html
Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a
Ham Shack Hotline # 11173

On Nov 17, 2021, at 9:55 AM, Doc Dowd, W1DOC <bdowd48@...> wrote:

Maybe "up your heat sink" game:
Use a copper, rather than an aluminum heat sink. It transfers heat more efficiently.
Fins are only effective if you are using a cooling fan to move the air around.
Use thermal paste instead of a stick on pad.


Re: Heat sinks

 

have you seen the FLIRC case? 

It makes a marvelous heat sync, is quiet and looks good. 
The downsides of it is access to internal connectors requires opening the case, and the WiFi / Bluetooth performance suffers.  



Tadd / KA2DEW  http://qrz.com/db/ka2dew
tadd@...
Raleigh NC  FM05pv

North Carolina ham-radio chatRoom Network: http://ncpacket.net/north_carolina_packet_radio_network.html
Packet networking over ham radio: http://tarpn.net/t/packet_radio_networking.html
Local Raleigh ham radio info: http://torborg.com/a
Ham Shack Hotline # 11173

On Nov 17, 2021, at 9:55 AM, Doc Dowd, W1DOC <bdowd48@...> wrote:

Maybe "up your heat sink" game:
Use a copper, rather than an aluminum heat sink. It transfers heat more efficiently.
Fins are only effective if you are using a cooling fan to move the air around.
Use thermal paste instead of a stick on pad.


Heat sinks

Doc Dowd, W1DOC
 

Maybe "up your heat sink" game:
Use a copper, rather than an aluminum heat sink. It transfers heat more efficiently.
Fins are only effective if you are using a cooling fan to move the air around.
Use thermal paste instead of a stick on pad.


Re: RPi-zero 2 W heat issues

Vic WA4THR
 

Some good ideas here. Note, I have more than enough speed to run Fldigi and WSJT-X with the zero 2...no issues with that and I think there is some excess capability, which is why I was thinking of "underclocking". I had run the original Pi-zero overclocked about 10%, but never had any heat issues.

The Swap file only gets to about 70%, as does memory usage in the worst case and usually less. CPU usage is below 40%. The only issue has been heat buildup and shutdown, and only when running Fldigi. I can delay it by leaving the top off the small case, but as room temps rise into the 70's even that is not enough. I just checked and the "slow CPU" option was automatically selected on the 4.1.01 version I am using. The diplay is optimized for the little 8" display on the Kindle Fire I am using to interface with the Pi. Bluetooth is off, but the WiFi is a critical part as the unit is running headless and linking to a simple tablet in the field, even out of WiFi range using it as a hotspot.

Is there a heatsink somewhere that is the same size as the whole Pi-zero that could substitute for the plastic top of the Vilros mini-case or something similar? That roughly 800% increase in surface might do the job.

=Vic=


Re: RPi-zero 2 W heat issues

Mérlin
 

You could try reducing the background tasks or a different 'cleaner' image which has less of the unnecessary background tasks already removed(i dont know how much of background processing the standard image of the R-Pi Zero takes) Might also try reducing the display resolution as then the GPU wouldnt have to work that hard. Also turn off Wi-Fi/Bluetooth if possible. These are just some of the things that jump out to me while attempting to make the Pi go QRP!
-Mérlin


Re: RPi-zero 2 W heat issues

David Ranch
 


Hello Vic,

I have had a Raspberry Pi-zero W for a while for portable digital ops...nice and compact and runs forever with low battery drain, but it is a bit slow.

Makes sense since it's basically a Rpi v1 with a single old ARM v6L core but without HDMI, wired Ethernet, etc.


So, when the zero 2 W came out, I was eager to swap it in the same little case. It is fantastic, FT8 decodes right away and Fldigi loads and runs well

It's basically a depopulated Raspberry Pi 3 with less RAM.  I'm surprised programs like these run very well at all with only 512MB of RAM.  Are you sure your Rpi isn't swapping when running say Fldigi?  Look at the "used" column when running the command line program "free".  It will never be zero but if it's consuming all of your configured swap, performance will be dramatically impacted and your SD card will fail far sooner than it should.     Btw, if you're not running the new Raspberry Pi OS "Bullseye" release yet, be warned as this will probably get harder to run big memory footprint programs with that OS version due to additional bloat.


...except for one thing. Running only Fldigi and Conky to monitor the processor the heat steadily rises relatively quickly until somewhere past 134F it shuts the thing off. Adding a heatsink helps, but the rise is inevitable and happens within 20 minutes or so, depending on ambient temperature, even with the Pi out of the case.

It all comes down to cooling.  You're doing the right things here.. hopefully that's a good heat sink with a good thermal pad (many cheap heatsinks have *terrible* thermal pads btw).  You might consider trying other BIGGER heatsinks or even entire-case heatsink cases like the FLIRC line of all-metal cases ( https://flirc.tv/more/flirc-raspberry-pi-zero-case ).  If your case+heatsink has good ventilation for the heat build up, maybe you need a fan for those high CPU draw scenarios.


I could add a small fan, but now I am defeating the size and power use benefit.

Instead of a full time fan, you might consider running a temperature controlled *variable* speed fan:   https://www.trinityos.com/HAM/CentosDigitalModes/RPi/rpi4-setup.html#60d.appendix-cases-fanctl .  The solution is quiet and only runs the fan fast enough to get the meet the temperature you set.


Note that this problem seems to be only with Fldigi, not any of the other programs like WSJT-X or LinPSK that run cool and work well. So my question is whether there is something I could do like underclocking to control temps when running this program? Any other ideas?

Underclocking and undervolting might be a possibility but it also might slow the Pi down enough that those applications won't run very well anymore:

   https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/aki1is/reducing_power_of_the_raspberry_pi_3_b/


There are other settings in Fldigi that might help here:

   - Turn on the "Slow CPU" feature - http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.22/miscellaneous_configuration_page.html
   - Slow or outright stop the waterfall


--David
KI6ZHD


Re: RPi-zero 2 W heat issues

Don Rolph
 

I got a 14 mm square aluminum heat sink and placed it on my Raspberry PI Zero 2 W.  I do  not seem to be having issues.  My case has plenty of ventilation.


On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 9:46 AM Vic WA4THR via groups.io <vhklein=ptd.net@groups.io> wrote:
I have had a Raspberry Pi-zero W for a while for portable digital ops...nice and compact and runs forever with low battery drain, but it is a bit slow. FT8 doesn't get decoded before the next cycle most of the time, making for repeats, and Fldigi just won't run. So, when the zero 2 W came out, I was eager to swap it in the same little case. It is fantastic, FT8 decodes right away and Fldigi loads and runs well...except for one thing. Running only Fldigi and Conky to monitor the processor the heat steadily rises relatively quickly until somewhere past 134F it shuts the thing off. Adding a heatsink helps, but the rise is inevitable and happens within 20 minutes or so, depending on ambient temperature, even with the Pi out of the case.

I could add a small fan, but now I am defeating the size and power use benefit. Note that this problem seems to be only with Fldigi, not any of the other programs like WSJT-X or LinPSK that run cool and work well. So my question is whether there is something I could do like underclocking to control temps when running this program? Any other ideas?

=Vic=



--

73,
AB1PH
Don Rolph


RPi-zero 2 W heat issues

Vic WA4THR
 

I have had a Raspberry Pi-zero W for a while for portable digital ops...nice and compact and runs forever with low battery drain, but it is a bit slow. FT8 doesn't get decoded before the next cycle most of the time, making for repeats, and Fldigi just won't run. So, when the zero 2 W came out, I was eager to swap it in the same little case. It is fantastic, FT8 decodes right away and Fldigi loads and runs well...except for one thing. Running only Fldigi and Conky to monitor the processor the heat steadily rises relatively quickly until somewhere past 134F it shuts the thing off. Adding a heatsink helps, but the rise is inevitable and happens within 20 minutes or so, depending on ambient temperature, even with the Pi out of the case.

I could add a small fan, but now I am defeating the size and power use benefit. Note that this problem seems to be only with Fldigi, not any of the other programs like WSJT-X or LinPSK that run cool and work well. So my question is whether there is something I could do like underclocking to control temps when running this program? Any other ideas?

=Vic=


Xiegu G90 + PAT Setup + Rig Control #pi #tnc #pat #flrig

Mérlin
 

Hi Everyone,

I have been trying to get PAT Menu setup with my HAM Pi image on RPi-4 which is hooked up to a Xiegu G90. I have watched these series by KM4ACK to get everything going. Here is the part 3 of it, which talks about Rig Control:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCMHeuNjhK0

Unfortunately i not able to get rigcontrol to work properly with flrig. I have made sure i entered everything correctly especially in the .json config file  found here: ~/.wl2k/config.json

I also double checked my settings with the url here.

I also made sure i for the right model(According to Xiegu and many other websites, this model G90 works well when Icom IC-7100 is selected @ 19200 Baud). And this trick of using IC-7100 works no problem with wsjtx and other related software. This model comes out to '3070' when the output rigctl -l is printed to the terminal.  The following is the command i use to start the daemon.

rigctld -m 3070 -r /dev/ttyUSB0 -s 19200

The PTT doesn't work and i dont see any interaction by Pat to flrig when i hit Conect.

So the question i have is, should i try a different model number with rigcontrol?  Has anyone had luck trying to get  rigcontrol with flrig and using pat? I checked hamlibs supported radios page, there is still no official support for the Xiegu G90.

The latest version of flrig does seem to have the Xiegu G90 added in its list of Transceivers, but i wonder if its worth the update if in the end rigctl is not going to support it.  Attached(below) are the relevant screenshots.


Re: Simple Remote Radio

J Mathieson
 

There was a QST article a couple of years ago using No machine.  Which allowed two way audio and CW IIRC. Also used Flrig for radio control.  

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