Topics

Louisiana & North West RR


Dennis Hogan
 

Back in 1910 it covered almost 121 miles from McNeil to Natchitoches.
This accounts for the other extant depot in Natchitoches, I think. The one in addition to the T&P depot.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQXTD_Natchitoches_Railway_Depot_Natchitoches_LA


texaszephyr
 

Skip should know, he went to school there.

I’ve always wondered if this line was used in the John Wayne “The Horse Soldiers”. It was supposedly filmed at Nachitoches.

TZ


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Dennis Hogan <denmeg_hogan@...> wrote:

Back in 1910 it covered almost 121 miles from McNeil to Natchitoches.
This accounts for the other extant depot in Natchitoches, I think. The one in addition to the T&P depot.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQXTD_Natchitoches_Railway_Depot_Natchitoches_LA


Dennis Hogan
 

Yep, Skip would know more.
There must have been a bridge across the Red River which no longer exists.

Speaking of the Grierson Raid ("Horse Soldiers"), Benjamin Grierson later became post commandant
at Fort Davis Texas.  He was a promoter of a never-built narrow gauge railroad from the T&P (around Kent,
I recall) to Ft. Davis.  That would have been an interesting line!


texaszephyr
 

If I remember correctly the PVS also had its sights set on Fort Davis.


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Dennis Hogan <denmeg_hogan@...> wrote:

Yep, Skip would know more.
There must have been a bridge across the Red River which no longer exists.

Speaking of the Grierson Raid ("Horse Soldiers"), Benjamin Grierson later became post commandant
at Fort Davis Texas.  He was a promoter of a never-built narrow gauge railroad from the T&P (around Kent,
I recall) to Ft. Davis.  That would have been an interesting line!


Tom Roise
 

That would be a good story too!!

Tom Roise


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:08 PM, texaszephyr <texaszephyr@...> wrote:

Skip should know, he went to school there.

I’ve always wondered if this line was used in the John Wayne “The Horse Soldiers”. It was supposedly filmed at Nachitoches.

TZ


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Dennis Hogan <denmeg_hogan@...> wrote:

Back in 1910 it covered almost 121 miles from McNeil to Natchitoches.
This accounts for the other extant depot in Natchitoches, I think. The one in addition to the T&P depot.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQXTD_Natchitoches_Railway_Depot_Natchitoches_LA


Skip Waters
 

Well... I don't know if I know more... but, I can tell you what I do know.

The other depot in Natchitoches that is used as City Hall appears to be for a line that tapped off the T&P or what later became the T&P.  At the time Natchitoches got a railroad, it was a TAP line that connected with the T&P at Cypress, Louisiana.  (I now see there is more T&P Louisiana history I need to go study.)

The way the city streets and topography is laid out leading to the City Hall depot, it seems like the rail line came off the T&P, or off the TAP line (Natchitoches Railroad), just after 2nd street and ran down 5th street and then curved into the present location on Amulet Street.  If you study a street map, you will see two roads side by side along this route.  One is "lower 5th" street and the other is simply "5th street". Well, 5th street is the old right of way roadbed for the railroad line to the City Hall depot.  Going to school there I always thought it was odd to build such a high road next to a second road along the houses.  Then, I learned of the Depot and followed the right of way and it all made sense.

As for City Hall depot as the first depot of Natchitoches, even though the plaque on the City Hall depot says it's the first one, I'm not so sure.  The 1887 photo of the depot in the Natchitoches Times 2013 article (attached) does not match the current City Hall depot's architecture.  Plus, the article says the first depot location was near Jefferson Street at the entrance of the University.  This would make sense as there is a large swath of land near this location with doesn't account for why the street pitched far away from the right of way here... unless there were railroad buildings or structures there at one time?  A depot perhaps?

I also have a print from the 1983 Natchitoches Folk Festival (attached) which shows what appears to be the first Natchtoches depot set in 1910 next to an engine house or shed for the Natchitoches Railroad and the depot does not match the current architecture of the City Hall depot.  It matches more closely to the depot shown in the Natchitoches Times article photo of 1887.

Note another photo from 1900 (attached), showing the same train shed and depot (just like the 1983 print) describes the scene as this...

Men with horses and train at tap line depot at Chaplin's Lake, Natchitoches, Louisiana. "This engine belongs to the old Natchitoches Railroad--Ran to Cypress, connected with the T & P local there. This location is the Railroad Crossing at Chaplain's Lake 1900."

The railroad crossing at Chaplain's Lake is right next to Jefferson Street at the University entrance and the plot of empty land where this first depot would of been located.  It's all coming together now...

I have another book to reference about Louisiana rail history, but it's not easy to get to, once I do, I'll submit more info about the mysteries of the Railroads of Natchitoches, Louisiana.

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas




On Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 08:08:45 PM CDT, texaszephyr <texaszephyr@...> wrote:


Skip should know, he went to school there.

I’ve always wondered if this line was used in the John Wayne “The Horse Soldiers”. It was supposedly filmed at Nachitoches.

TZ


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Dennis Hogan <denmeg_hogan@...> wrote:

Back in 1910 it covered almost 121 miles from McNeil to Natchitoches.
This accounts for the other extant depot in Natchitoches, I think. The one in addition to the T&P depot.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQXTD_Natchitoches_Railway_Depot_Natchitoches_LA


Skip Waters
 

I realized I didn't really speak about the L&NWRR part of the topic.  I can't prove it right now, but I suspect the City Hall depot was for the L&NWRR connection from the north.  As for a bridge over the Red River, I'm not certain, will do more research and find out.  I will say this, the TAP line did go due north toward's the river before turning NW to Shreveport.  And on the other side of the Red River there is an active rail line with a few Army switchers working a plant there.  It appears the line could of connected at the river somewhere.  By Bridge or Ferry I do not know.

More to study and find out...

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas

On Thursday, October 22, 2020, 12:58:29 AM CDT, Skip Waters <wgcrush@...> wrote:


Well... I don't know if I know more... but, I can tell you what I do know.

The other depot in Natchitoches that is used as City Hall appears to be for a line that tapped off the T&P or what later became the T&P.  At the time Natchitoches got a railroad, it was a TAP line that connected with the T&P at Cypress, Louisiana.  (I now see there is more T&P Louisiana history I need to go study.)

The way the city streets and topography is laid out leading to the City Hall depot, it seems like the rail line came off the T&P, or off the TAP line (Natchitoches Railroad), just after 2nd street and ran down 5th street and then curved into the present location on Amulet Street.  If you study a street map, you will see two roads side by side along this route.  One is "lower 5th" street and the other is simply "5th street". Well, 5th street is the old right of way roadbed for the railroad line to the City Hall depot.  Going to school there I always thought it was odd to build such a high road next to a second road along the houses.  Then, I learned of the Depot and followed the right of way and it all made sense.

As for City Hall depot as the first depot of Natchitoches, even though the plaque on the City Hall depot says it's the first one, I'm not so sure.  The 1887 photo of the depot in the Natchitoches Times 2013 article (attached) does not match the current City Hall depot's architecture.  Plus, the article says the first depot location was near Jefferson Street at the entrance of the University.  This would make sense as there is a large swath of land near this location with doesn't account for why the street pitched far away from the right of way here... unless there were railroad buildings or structures there at one time?  A depot perhaps?

I also have a print from the 1983 Natchitoches Folk Festival (attached) which shows what appears to be the first Natchtoches depot set in 1910 next to an engine house or shed for the Natchitoches Railroad and the depot does not match the current architecture of the City Hall depot.  It matches more closely to the depot shown in the Natchitoches Times article photo of 1887.

Note another photo from 1900 (attached), showing the same train shed and depot (just like the 1983 print) describes the scene as this...

Men with horses and train at tap line depot at Chaplin's Lake, Natchitoches, Louisiana. "This engine belongs to the old Natchitoches Railroad--Ran to Cypress, connected with the T & P local there. This location is the Railroad Crossing at Chaplain's Lake 1900."

The railroad crossing at Chaplain's Lake is right next to Jefferson Street at the University entrance and the plot of empty land where this first depot would of been located.  It's all coming together now...

I have another book to reference about Louisiana rail history, but it's not easy to get to, once I do, I'll submit more info about the mysteries of the Railroads of Natchitoches, Louisiana.

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas




On Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 08:08:45 PM CDT, texaszephyr <texaszephyr@...> wrote:


Skip should know, he went to school there.

I’ve always wondered if this line was used in the John Wayne “The Horse Soldiers”. It was supposedly filmed at Nachitoches.

TZ


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Dennis Hogan <denmeg_hogan@...> wrote:

Back in 1910 it covered almost 121 miles from McNeil to Natchitoches.
This accounts for the other extant depot in Natchitoches, I think. The one in addition to the T&P depot.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQXTD_Natchitoches_Railway_Depot_Natchitoches_LA


Skip Waters
 

Another follow up...

From the rare book, "Louisiana - Its Street and Interurban Railways" Vol. I -  Published 1962

Said about Natchitoches...  

From the Tax Rolls of the City of Natchitoches, "An 1898 map shows only the two miles of track of the Natchitoches & Red River Valley Ry. on 5th St.  The tracks on 5th St. were built in 1893 by the predecessor road of the N & R. R. V. Ry. in an attempt to complete a line from Natchitoches to Grand Ecore, on the Red River."

So did the N&RRV Ry. become a part of, or reach, the Louisiana & North West RR that reached Natchitoches in 1900?  

More research to be done...

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas


On Thursday, October 22, 2020, 02:15:57 AM CDT, Skip Waters <wgcrush@...> wrote:


I realized I didn't really speak about the L&NWRR part of the topic.  I can't prove it right now, but I suspect the City Hall depot was for the L&NWRR connection from the north.  As for a bridge over the Red River, I'm not certain, will do more research and find out.  I will say this, the TAP line did go due north toward's the river before turning NW to Shreveport.  And on the other side of the Red River there is an active rail line with a few Army switchers working a plant there.  It appears the line could of connected at the river somewhere.  By Bridge or Ferry I do not know.

More to study and find out...

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas

On Thursday, October 22, 2020, 12:58:29 AM CDT, Skip Waters <wgcrush@...> wrote:


Well... I don't know if I know more... but, I can tell you what I do know.

The other depot in Natchitoches that is used as City Hall appears to be for a line that tapped off the T&P or what later became the T&P.  At the time Natchitoches got a railroad, it was a TAP line that connected with the T&P at Cypress, Louisiana.  (I now see there is more T&P Louisiana history I need to go study.)

The way the city streets and topography is laid out leading to the City Hall depot, it seems like the rail line came off the T&P, or off the TAP line (Natchitoches Railroad), just after 2nd street and ran down 5th street and then curved into the present location on Amulet Street.  If you study a street map, you will see two roads side by side along this route.  One is "lower 5th" street and the other is simply "5th street". Well, 5th street is the old right of way roadbed for the railroad line to the City Hall depot.  Going to school there I always thought it was odd to build such a high road next to a second road along the houses.  Then, I learned of the Depot and followed the right of way and it all made sense.

As for City Hall depot as the first depot of Natchitoches, even though the plaque on the City Hall depot says it's the first one, I'm not so sure.  The 1887 photo of the depot in the Natchitoches Times 2013 article (attached) does not match the current City Hall depot's architecture.  Plus, the article says the first depot location was near Jefferson Street at the entrance of the University.  This would make sense as there is a large swath of land near this location with doesn't account for why the street pitched far away from the right of way here... unless there were railroad buildings or structures there at one time?  A depot perhaps?

I also have a print from the 1983 Natchitoches Folk Festival (attached) which shows what appears to be the first Natchtoches depot set in 1910 next to an engine house or shed for the Natchitoches Railroad and the depot does not match the current architecture of the City Hall depot.  It matches more closely to the depot shown in the Natchitoches Times article photo of 1887.

Note another photo from 1900 (attached), showing the same train shed and depot (just like the 1983 print) describes the scene as this...

Men with horses and train at tap line depot at Chaplin's Lake, Natchitoches, Louisiana. "This engine belongs to the old Natchitoches Railroad--Ran to Cypress, connected with the T & P local there. This location is the Railroad Crossing at Chaplain's Lake 1900."

The railroad crossing at Chaplain's Lake is right next to Jefferson Street at the University entrance and the plot of empty land where this first depot would of been located.  It's all coming together now...

I have another book to reference about Louisiana rail history, but it's not easy to get to, once I do, I'll submit more info about the mysteries of the Railroads of Natchitoches, Louisiana.

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas




On Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 08:08:45 PM CDT, texaszephyr <texaszephyr@...> wrote:


Skip should know, he went to school there.

I’ve always wondered if this line was used in the John Wayne “The Horse Soldiers”. It was supposedly filmed at Nachitoches.

TZ


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Dennis Hogan <denmeg_hogan@...> wrote:

Back in 1910 it covered almost 121 miles from McNeil to Natchitoches.
This accounts for the other extant depot in Natchitoches, I think. The one in addition to the T&P depot.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQXTD_Natchitoches_Railway_Depot_Natchitoches_LA


Skip Waters
 

Other misc. finds...

TEXAS AND PACIFIC RAILWAY. . . .
By Construction: 69.89 mi. Natchitoches to Shreveport, LA, 1901

Abandoned: 5.00 mi. Natchitoches to Grand Ecore, LA
Natchitoches and Red River Valley Railway (4/27/1901)

THE NATCHITOCHES AND RED RIVER VALLEY RAILWAY. . . . . . . . . . . . . 
Texas and Pacific Ry. Inc. in LA, November 3, 1894
No property constructed
Natchitoches and Red River Valley Railroad (1/16/1895)

NATCHITOCHES AND RED RIVER VALLEY RAILROAD.. . 
Natchitoches and Red River Valley Ry Inc. in LA, March 24, 1893
15.91 mi. Cypress to Natchitoches, LA, 1893 Natchitoches to Grand Ecore, LA
Natchitoches Railroad (5/13/1893)

NATCHITOCHES RAILROAD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
Natchitoches and Red River Valley RR Inc. in LA, February 25, 1887
No property constructed

BAKER SYNDICATE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
Natchitoches RR Inc. in LA, January 29, 1887
No property constructed
Natchitoches Land and Railway Company (6/18/1887)

NATCHITOCHES LAND AND RAILWAY COMPANY.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
Baker Syndicate Inc. in LA, November 23, 1885
No property constructed

More to come...


Skip

On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 03:02:25 AM CDT, Skip Waters <wgcrush@...> wrote:


Another follow up...

From the rare book, "Louisiana - Its Street and Interurban Railways" Vol. I -  Published 1962

Said about Natchitoches...  

From the Tax Rolls of the City of Natchitoches, "An 1898 map shows only the two miles of track of the Natchitoches & Red River Valley Ry. on 5th St.  The tracks on 5th St. were built in 1893 by the predecessor road of the N & R. R. V. Ry. in an attempt to complete a line from Natchitoches to Grand Ecore, on the Red River."

So did the N&RRV Ry. become a part of, or reach, the Louisiana & North West RR that reached Natchitoches in 1900?  

More research to be done...

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas


On Thursday, October 22, 2020, 02:15:57 AM CDT, Skip Waters <wgcrush@...> wrote:


I realized I didn't really speak about the L&NWRR part of the topic.  I can't prove it right now, but I suspect the City Hall depot was for the L&NWRR connection from the north.  As for a bridge over the Red River, I'm not certain, will do more research and find out.  I will say this, the TAP line did go due north toward's the river before turning NW to Shreveport.  And on the other side of the Red River there is an active rail line with a few Army switchers working a plant there.  It appears the line could of connected at the river somewhere.  By Bridge or Ferry I do not know.

More to study and find out...

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas

On Thursday, October 22, 2020, 12:58:29 AM CDT, Skip Waters <wgcrush@...> wrote:


Well... I don't know if I know more... but, I can tell you what I do know.

The other depot in Natchitoches that is used as City Hall appears to be for a line that tapped off the T&P or what later became the T&P.  At the time Natchitoches got a railroad, it was a TAP line that connected with the T&P at Cypress, Louisiana.  (I now see there is more T&P Louisiana history I need to go study.)

The way the city streets and topography is laid out leading to the City Hall depot, it seems like the rail line came off the T&P, or off the TAP line (Natchitoches Railroad), just after 2nd street and ran down 5th street and then curved into the present location on Amulet Street.  If you study a street map, you will see two roads side by side along this route.  One is "lower 5th" street and the other is simply "5th street". Well, 5th street is the old right of way roadbed for the railroad line to the City Hall depot.  Going to school there I always thought it was odd to build such a high road next to a second road along the houses.  Then, I learned of the Depot and followed the right of way and it all made sense.

As for City Hall depot as the first depot of Natchitoches, even though the plaque on the City Hall depot says it's the first one, I'm not so sure.  The 1887 photo of the depot in the Natchitoches Times 2013 article (attached) does not match the current City Hall depot's architecture.  Plus, the article says the first depot location was near Jefferson Street at the entrance of the University.  This would make sense as there is a large swath of land near this location with doesn't account for why the street pitched far away from the right of way here... unless there were railroad buildings or structures there at one time?  A depot perhaps?

I also have a print from the 1983 Natchitoches Folk Festival (attached) which shows what appears to be the first Natchtoches depot set in 1910 next to an engine house or shed for the Natchitoches Railroad and the depot does not match the current architecture of the City Hall depot.  It matches more closely to the depot shown in the Natchitoches Times article photo of 1887.

Note another photo from 1900 (attached), showing the same train shed and depot (just like the 1983 print) describes the scene as this...

Men with horses and train at tap line depot at Chaplin's Lake, Natchitoches, Louisiana. "This engine belongs to the old Natchitoches Railroad--Ran to Cypress, connected with the T & P local there. This location is the Railroad Crossing at Chaplain's Lake 1900."

The railroad crossing at Chaplain's Lake is right next to Jefferson Street at the University entrance and the plot of empty land where this first depot would of been located.  It's all coming together now...

I have another book to reference about Louisiana rail history, but it's not easy to get to, once I do, I'll submit more info about the mysteries of the Railroads of Natchitoches, Louisiana.

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas




On Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 08:08:45 PM CDT, texaszephyr <texaszephyr@...> wrote:


Skip should know, he went to school there.

I’ve always wondered if this line was used in the John Wayne “The Horse Soldiers”. It was supposedly filmed at Nachitoches.

TZ


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Dennis Hogan <denmeg_hogan@...> wrote:

Back in 1910 it covered almost 121 miles from McNeil to Natchitoches.
This accounts for the other extant depot in Natchitoches, I think. The one in addition to the T&P depot.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQXTD_Natchitoches_Railway_Depot_Natchitoches_LA


randy james
 

And just think I lived a block away from it and played around it many a time. Not even realizing it was a depot.

Randy James

On Thursday, October 22, 2020, 12:58:29 AM CDT, Skip Waters <wgcrush@...> wrote:


Well... I don't know if I know more... but, I can tell you what I do know.

The other depot in Natchitoches that is used as City Hall appears to be for a line that tapped off the T&P or what later became the T&P.  At the time Natchitoches got a railroad, it was a TAP line that connected with the T&P at Cypress, Louisiana.  (I now see there is more T&P Louisiana history I need to go study.)

The way the city streets and topography is laid out leading to the City Hall depot, it seems like the rail line came off the T&P, or off the TAP line (Natchitoches Railroad), just after 2nd street and ran down 5th street and then curved into the present location on Amulet Street.  If you study a street map, you will see two roads side by side along this route.  One is "lower 5th" street and the other is simply "5th street". Well, 5th street is the old right of way roadbed for the railroad line to the City Hall depot.  Going to school there I always thought it was odd to build such a high road next to a second road along the houses.  Then, I learned of the Depot and followed the right of way and it all made sense.

As for City Hall depot as the first depot of Natchitoches, even though the plaque on the City Hall depot says it's the first one, I'm not so sure.  The 1887 photo of the depot in the Natchitoches Times 2013 article (attached) does not match the current City Hall depot's architecture.  Plus, the article says the first depot location was near Jefferson Street at the entrance of the University.  This would make sense as there is a large swath of land near this location with doesn't account for why the street pitched far away from the right of way here... unless there were railroad buildings or structures there at one time?  A depot perhaps?

I also have a print from the 1983 Natchitoches Folk Festival (attached) which shows what appears to be the first Natchtoches depot set in 1910 next to an engine house or shed for the Natchitoches Railroad and the depot does not match the current architecture of the City Hall depot.  It matches more closely to the depot shown in the Natchitoches Times article photo of 1887.

Note another photo from 1900 (attached), showing the same train shed and depot (just like the 1983 print) describes the scene as this...

Men with horses and train at tap line depot at Chaplin's Lake, Natchitoches, Louisiana. "This engine belongs to the old Natchitoches Railroad--Ran to Cypress, connected with the T & P local there. This location is the Railroad Crossing at Chaplain's Lake 1900."

The railroad crossing at Chaplain's Lake is right next to Jefferson Street at the University entrance and the plot of empty land where this first depot would of been located.  It's all coming together now...

I have another book to reference about Louisiana rail history, but it's not easy to get to, once I do, I'll submit more info about the mysteries of the Railroads of Natchitoches, Louisiana.

Skip Waters
Dallas, Texas




On Wednesday, October 21, 2020, 08:08:45 PM CDT, texaszephyr <texaszephyr@...> wrote:


Skip should know, he went to school there.

I’ve always wondered if this line was used in the John Wayne “The Horse Soldiers”. It was supposedly filmed at Nachitoches.

TZ


On Oct 21, 2020, at 8:04 PM, Dennis Hogan <denmeg_hogan@...> wrote:

Back in 1910 it covered almost 121 miles from McNeil to Natchitoches.
This accounts for the other extant depot in Natchitoches, I think. The one in addition to the T&P depot.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQXTD_Natchitoches_Railway_Depot_Natchitoches_LA