Re: RS: Belle on the move again

Robert B Hall <rbhrr@...>

You mean I missed it again??? I'm just gonna hafta start railfanning
earlier in the day!

Robert B. Hall (
Robertsburg, Boiseton & Hallsville Railroad
A T55TS&BS member (and missing it)
Always expect a train! Stop LOOK & Listen ... and you'll live!

On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:05:36 -0600 Jimmy Barlow <>
At 11:55 Thurs morn, KCS 2 was given permission to leave Wylie Yd and
enter CTC at CP-198, heading east. I don't know destination, but my
guess is Texas Jct.

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Re: RS: Engineer and Conductor


There was a picture of the van that the train crew was riding in on the front
page of the Lake Charles American Press today. Looks like this guys never
knew what hit them. the driver of the van is in serious condition. Reportedly
the 18 wheeler that hit them from behind was traveling at a high rate of
speed in a construction zone. After the impact, the van was pushed into the
back of another 18 wheeler, reportedly traffic was crawling along at 20mph at
the time of the accident.
This is not the 1st time an accident has happened like this in the LC area.

My sympathy goes out to the familes of the victims

OS KSC @Wylie Thur 3/22

Robert B Hall <rbhrr@...>

I headed out to Wylie to check on the KCS this afternoon. This is where
I shoulda went yesterday (when I might have seen the Southern Belle), but
such is the luck of railfanning

1259 working south end of KCS Dallas Yard @Barnes Bridge Rd xing:
#221 - IMTDA -- intermodal, Metro Jct to Dallas
KCS654 East SD40-3
KCS660 SD40-3
KCS673 VMV rebuild SD40-3
Shoving COFC/TOFC into intermodal ramps at Dallas Yard; When I arrived
at the xing, there were about a dozen vehicles in front of me &
one-by-one, they turned around until I had a front-row seat. (Thanks,
folks!) #221 cleared the xing @1315.

1357 holding WB/AS @Eubanks Rd xing (west end Wylie Yard)
#26 - MSHDA -- manifest, Shreveport to Dallas
KCS4716 West GP40-3
KCS4783 BL rebuild GP40-3
KCS709 SD50
This train was to pull WB onto the Alliance Sub, then shove EB onto the
Dallas Sub, then continue to Dallas Yard. This action was to take place
behind #202 (see next entry), but #26 was still sitting there when I came
back thru @1550.

1400 WB/DS > WB/AS @Alliance Jct (Eubanks Rd xing)
#202 - ISHAL -- intermodal, Shreveport to BNSF Alliance Yard
KCS656 West SD40-3
KCS746 SD60
KCS708 SD50

1410 working east end Wylie Yard
KCS624 VMV rebuild SD40-3
The engine was on the east end of a cut of cars, facing west & waiting
for #8 (see next entry) to arrive.

1427 WB/DS @Lake Lavon Dam Trestle
#8 - IATDA -- intermodal, Atlanta (via NS @Meridian) to Dallas
NS9373 West C40-9W
NS9534 C40-9W
Got some good pics of this train crossing the trestle. All of the flood
gates were open & plenty of water was flowing with the Elm Fork of the
Trinity in flood below the dam. A number of fishermen were busy trying
to catch something. Buffalo seemed to be the only thing biting, but they
were BIG! This is probably a good place to railfan if you like to fish,
too! The east end of Wylie Yard is right around the corner!

1440 With the passage of #8, KCS624 backed out toward the trestle
with it's cut of cars but returned to the yard before ever getting to the

1538 working EB/DS Main @W Copeville
WWYWY (?) -- work, Wylie to Wylie (?)
Cross-Tie delivery train
KCS4780 BL rebuild GP40-3
Like KCS624, KCS4780 was at the east end of the train, facing west, &
pulling about 4-car lengths at a time as the crane on the west end
dropped off new cross-ties from the gons. This train was on the main

1631 holding NB @north end of Dallas Yard on the east track
unknown symbol & unknown power (KCS Gray)
The view of this train was blocked by a manifest cut of cars on the west
track; buildings along Garland Rd; & the amount of traffic behind me.

1632 The ITS switchers (PREX1601 & 1600) were shoving a bare table
train into the intermodal ramps across the Santa Anna xing at the south
end of Dallas Yard. 1601 continues to belch huge amounts of blue smoke
(like an angry volcano) whenever it revs its prime movers.

Robert B. Hall (
Robertsburg, Boiseton & Hallsville Railroad
A T55TS&BS member (and missing it)
Always expect a train! Stop LOOK & Listen ... and you'll live!

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Re: RS: Hours of Service


UP won't use engines to deadhead because of the diesel exhaust from the
lead unit, concern is for carbon monoxide and other exhaust gasses.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:23:59 EST writes:
There's no way in hell I'd advocate resuming prior practices that
included 16
hours of duty. In fact, I think 12 hours on duty is too long. My
beef is
with operating practices that require engine/train crews to be
hauled up and
down the highways in vans. Therefore, I object to runs that are so
long they
take 12 hours or more to complete, to inept train management that
results in
crews "dying on the law" far from home or near to home, to salting
trains at outlying locations and transporting old and new crews over

highways, etc. Is a van more comfortable than the cab of a trailing
Perhaps. Is a van on a highway loaded with road rage, airheads on
phones, 18-wheelers going 75 mph, etc., safer than the cab of a
unit? Not in my opinion. Deadheading of crews should be held to an
minimum; therefore, current operating practices need to be

Still awaiting an apology for the Arizona

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This was the roadrailer that met the grain train in
OKC, surprised to say the least.

ARR-032201 1207 DPT-032201 1237
PS EDMOND OK ACT-032201 0919 64LDS 1MTY
1063T 3510F 4.1 6H

--- Keel A Middleton <> wrote:
Subject: LINEUP
LNUNDALU ***** N O C Support *****

BNSF WELLKS - Train Lineup -

Train lineup for ARKCITY KS Eastbound
Arriving and Departing

Act Status
Symbol Date Time
HPT Hrs Mn
ARR-032201 1021 DPT-032201 1031 ==> Crew was
PS PONCITY OK ACT-032201 0937 72LDS 0MTY
3769T 6700F 3.3 0H
EOT - SFQ 14408 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 0929 DPT-032201 1129 ==> Crew was
TA ARKCITY KS ACT-032201 0929 32LDS 77MTY
6854T 7460F 1.4 3H
EOT - BNQ 25379 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1207 DPT-032201 1237
PS EDMOND OK ACT-032201 0919 64LDS 1MTY
1063T 3510F 4.1 6H
EOT - BNQ 12952 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1249 DPT-032201 1319
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032201 1658 DPT-032201 1708
1016T 1774F 9.9 0H
EOT - BNQ 25080 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

DPT-032201 1800
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032201 1750 DPT-032201 1820
PS PONDER TX ACT-032201 0747 45LDS 25MTY
6728T 4533F 1.5 2H
ENGINES BNSF 700 BNSF 4207 BN 9285
EOT - BNQ 21193 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1812 DPT-032201 1842
TA MIDWAY TX ACT-032201 0001 0LDS 104MTY
3215T 6249F 3.6 11H
EOT - BNQ 21318 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1752 DPT-032201 1852
TA FTWORTH TX ACT-032201 0759 0LDS 104MTY
3274T 6121F 2.2 10H
EOT - BNQ 27265 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1808 DPT-032201 1908
PS SAGINAW TX ACT-032201 0932 0LDS 109MTY
3429T 6372F 1.9 26H
ENGINES EMD 9021 BN 5553
EOT - BNQ 26880 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032301 0027
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032301 0134 DPT-032301 0204
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032301 0305 DPT-032301 0505
4673T 4020F 1.4 0H
EOT - BNQ 18377 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032301 0500 DPT-032301 0510
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032301 0433 DPT-032301 0533
3455T 6729F 3.8 1H

ARR-032301 0557 DPT-032301 0657
TD PASADENA TX ACT-032201 0800 0LDS 110MTY
3401T 6609F 3.4 30H
ENGINES BNSF 4910 BN 7269 BNSF 4494

ARR-032301 0719 DPT-032301 0749
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032301 0035 DPT-032301 0835
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032301 0907 DPT-032301 0917
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032301 0911 DPT-032301 1111
** No Train Events Reported **

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Re: RS: Engineer and Conductor


In a message dated 3/22/01 10:09:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Lorija799 writes:

<< Subj: Re: RS: Engineer and Conductor
Date: 3/22/01 10:09:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!
From: Lorija799
To: HBrown5216

When the RRs did away with steam, and its human scale operating districs,
all possibility of regular, out one day, in to home terminal again, ended.
What they wanted to get rid of was not roundhouses and waterservice to
support steamlocomotives, but the facilities it took to humanely serve the
people that worked on the trains. When a article of capital equipment that
the company had money invested in had to be serviced within a specified
mileage or time period, it got done and it just so happened that human
endurance roughly coincided with the need of the service needs of the locos;
now that the machinery can go forever without being dealt with, human safety
and comfort are a marginal factor at best.
Railroads aren't interested in revenue profitability, but Wall Street value.
HRM O'Biph
Still wondering why we trade with the Chinese after the atrocities they did
to our boys on the cold, bald hills of Korea. >>

RS: Engineer and Conductor


OS Houston, Tx., Amtrak #2, Thurs., March 29, 2001

Howard Bingham

Amtrak #2 passed Bellaire Blvd. in SW Houston at: 11:01 A.M. CST
(Maury Gibson reported #2 by Stafford, Tx. at: 10:42 A.M.)

ETA the Houston Amtrak station: 11:21 A.M. CST (Running 1 hr. 11 min. late)

There are no Express cars on today's Sunset Limited.

Howard Bingham, on the Sunset Route in SW Houston, Tx.
(mp 372 UP Houston Terminal Sub.)


RS: UP Engineering Special with Es

Bill Wasinger

The UP is running an Engineering Special that will
roll through Railspot territory next week with the E
units on the point. The sked is as follows:

March 22; Council Bluffs to Cheyenne
March 23; Cheyenne to Salt Lake City
March 24; Salt Lake City to Las Vegas
March 25; Las Vegas to Los Angeles
March 26; Los Angeles (via Alhambra) to Yuma
March 27; Yuma to El Paso
March 28; El Paso to Dalhart
March 29; Dalhart to Kansas City
March 30 Kansas City to Council Bluffs
(via Hiawatha, Marysville, Kearney subs)


Oklahoma - Our tornadoes go to F6!

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Caught this one meeting the late running east bound
roadrailer at 0900 at Burnett in OKC:

The 5198 was in very clean blue and yellow, the 5584
was a clean white face BN.
Missed the Z with 5371, RATS!

--- Keel A Middleton <> wrote:

Date: Thursday, 22 March 2001 9:45am CT
From: K.Middleton@BNSF

LNUNDALU ***** N O C Support *****

BNSF WELLKS - Train Lineup -

Train lineup for GAINESVIL TX Westbound
Arriving and Departing

Act Status
Symbol Date Time
HPT Hrs Mn
ARR-032201 1306 DPT-032201 1321
TD OKLCITY OK ACT-032201 0929 51LDS 0MTY
6799T 3020F 1.5 98H
ENGINES BNSF 4990 BNSF 6783 BN 7148
EOT - BNQ 26826 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1308 DPT-032201 1323
PS OKLCITY OK ACT-032201 0910 108LDS 0MTY
14425T 6361F 0.9 75H
EOT - BNQ 27255 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1412 DPT-032201 1422
PS GUTHRIE OK ACT-032201 0937 59LDS 0MTY
4466T 5541F 2.9 0H
EOT - BNQ 22969 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1712 DPT-032201 1812
PS ASP OK ACT-032201 0942 78LDS 0MTY
5548T 7183F 1.3 1H
ENGINES BN 7128 BNSF 2412 BNSF 2318
EOT - BNQ 17598

ARR-032201 1852 DPT-032201 1902
5149T 6961F 2.1 0H
ENGINES ATSF 695 BN 6908 BNSF 6418
EOT - BNQ 23650 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 1807 DPT-032201 1937
PS REDROCK OK ACT-032201 0942 53LDS 22MTY
7077T 4755F 1.2 9H
EOT - BNQ 23783 >>>>>Device 2-WAY equipped<<<<<

ARR-032201 2340 DPT-032201 2350
** No Train Events Reported **

ARR-032301 0213 DPT-032301 0313
** No Train Events Reported **

DPT-032301 0700
** No Train Events Reported **

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Re: RS: Engineer and Conductor

Jason Gore

In a message dated 3/22/01 3:18:40 PM Central Standard Time, writes:

Where's the economy in having long runs, many of which are quite difficult
complete within the hog law and necessitate the use of vans?
I think I know the answer, but when a crew gets outlawed and a van comes in,
does their mandatory 12 hours off start as soon as they're off the locomotive
or as soon as they get back into the yard? Sometimes those crew rides can
take a long time.

Re: RS: Engineer and Conductor


I really hate the current operating practices of the big roads that require
crews to be hauled around all over the place in vans. This is an invitation
to tragedy, as Cy's post attests. Surely there's a better way to run big
railroads. Wouldn't restoring shorter runs be feasible and desirable.
Where's the economy in having long runs, many of which are quite difficult to
complete within the hog law and necessitate the use of vans? Has anyone done
a study on the economic comparisons of the two operating methods? Is it
really cheaper (for the railroad, of course, not for anyone else) to have
unrealistically long crew districts? I'd really like to see an objective

Still awaiting an apology for the Arizona



California Trip

Art Fisher

now that I'm out of the area (unfortunately) and with a computer
connection, I'm gonna give a little update...more will follow as
I have time.

"UP Detector Milepost 1-0-2-9: two hundred sixty eight axles,
zero defects, fifty point three miles per hour".

I caught this train coming off the hill at Tehachapi, a BNSF
intermodal...yes, it crested at 50 mph...I have never seen a
train go that fast over the hill...

I saw 7 trains up on tehachapi, 3 with helpers...incredible! If
y'all ever have a chance to check it out, I highly recommend

More later.

Art Fisher

"Now, believe it or not, and I've been known to lie..."

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Re: RS: Re: Hugo, OK Excursion Train kaput

Mike & Julie Harbour <mharbour@...>

Bear and RSers:

There was a brief in Trains a few years ago about Dallas-based
StatesRail...the company owns, among other things, that Hawaiian railroad,
an ex-Kyle road. I'll see if I can dig out the story.

Mike Harbour
Lewisville, Texas
On the KCS Alliance Sub

Lubbock TX article

Paul S. Highland <paul-kim@...>

[I found this on another Santa Fe list and thought y'all might enjoy it. I drove through the
Lubbock area in 1984 but didn't stop to look around there. === Paul H! in AtasCal]

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:30:22 -0600
From: Bob Burton <Mailto:b54burt@HOTMAIL.COM>

Below are the notes for a speech I gave a few years ago.


Bob Burton

WTHA 1997

Good morning and thank you for coming. I appreciate your being here instead of
watching Bugs Bunny. If you've never been to the Southwest Collection before, you'll
find it to be an excellent research facility. Unfortunately, it is also a good place to
research the JFK assassination, UFO sightings, and railroads. If you encounter someone
investigating these fields, remember your mother's advice and don't mess with anyone
weirder than you are.

Lubbock is an interesting place. While ground was being cleared for Texas Tech, a
piece of the Blarney Stone, missing for centuries, was discovered. How it got here is
unknown. Maybe one of the visiting UFOs dropped it. Lubbock has also been visited by
the Madona, the virgin one. We also have birds that glow in the dark. If you try to
touch the hand of the statue of Buddy Holly, the statue's head will turn to look at you.
Perhaps most mysterious of all, Lubbock has an excellent and successful classical music
radio station. If there is a screenwriter here today, I would like to meet that
red-headed agent Skully and show her the lights of Lubbock.

Today's topic is Lubbock's railroad lines. When the first rail line arrived in 1910,
Lubbock began billing itself as the economic hub of the plains. The "Hub City" moniker
stuck. It happened that eventually eight railroad lines radiated from Lubbock County
like the spokes of a hub.

In the summer of 1904, J. V. Key made three surveys from the Santa Fe's line
crossing the Panhandle, to Lubbock. Why Lubbock? At the time, the traffic of the South
Plains was split between the Santa Fe to the north and the Texas & Pacific Railroad to
the south. The Blackwater and Yellowhouse Draws provided a natural division between the
service territories. Santa Fe correspondence states that if a line were to be
constructed southwards on the plains, it should not be built south of Lubbock into T&P
territory. But of all the points on the dividing line, why Lubbock? Santa Fe
correspondence claims that the western part of the plains is desert-like, a region of
sand hills owned by large ranching corporations. The heaviest population and best water
supply were in the eastern plains, so it was desirable to have the north-south line as
far to the east as possible. Elsewhere, the correspondence speculates upon the ease of
moving the towns of Tulia and Plainview, then pronounces that it would not be wise to
move Lubbock. No reason is given, but a look at the terrain provides one. Just to the
east of Lubbock the Yellowhouse Draw widens and deepens into a canyon. Lubbock is about
the most easterly point where a railroad could cross the Yellowhouse. Infact, the
north-south line was laid out from the most eastern crossing of the Palo Duro, at Canyon,
to the most eastern crossing of the Yellowhouse, at Lubbock.

Mr. Key also explored southwards from Lubbock, descending the Caprock in Borden
County and reaching the T&P at Roscoe. He also tested a line from Plainview to Emma in
Garza County, and further to Snyder and Sweetwater. His most important line ran
southeastward from Plainview to Dickens and Abilene. This was the line chosen to be the
connection between the Santa Fe's lines to the Gulf and to the Pacific. Construction was
not immediately undertaken, and during 1906-7, F. Meredeth Jones examined an alternative,
running in virtually a straight line between Lubbock and Sweetwater.

It is common belief that C. W. Post was entirely responsible for having this survey
made. He was a major factor, but the survey would have been made even if he took no
part. Remove Mr. Post from the scene, and O. L. Slaton of Lubbock would be the major
influence. Mr. Slaton offered to compensate the railroad for the cost of the survey.
Remove Slaton, and Thomas Tramell of Sweetwater becomes the primary figure. Others were
involved as well. Also, surveyor Jones wanted to see if a route could be found along the
Yellowhouse. And W. B. Storey Jr. the Santa Fe's chief engineer, was curious about the
route as well.

The Yellowhouse route was excellent, but the Santa Fe remained committed to the
route through Dickens and Abilene. The reasons why later the Abilene line was abandoned
in favor of the line through Lubbock and Sweetwater make a long story and will not be
discussed here. In 1909, the Santa Fe began construction into Lubbock from the north,
and out towards the southeast.

The Santa Fe had constructed into Plainview by 1907, but delayed in coming further
south. In 1908, Lubbock became interested in an east-west railroad: The Altus, Lubbock,
Roswell and El Paso Railroad. The promotor, Ed Kennedy of Houston, managed to build
several sections of roadbed, then departed suddenly. The company floundered along for
several years, then died.

In 1935, Tech student Carl Harper was researching area railroads for his master's
thesis. In interviews with O. L. Slaton and Lorenzo Dow, Harper learned that Kennedy had
been secretly employed by Lubbock's railroad committee to make lots of noise and to scare
the Santa Fe into building to Lubbock. The local newspaper cooperated by giving massive
publicity to the company. When the Santa Fe arrived, Kennedy's weekly salary was
discontinued and he went home.

The Santa Fe's line from the north is in line with the center of Ave. Q. Carl
Harper claimed to have seen a city map that showed Ave. Q as being a right of way set
aside for the Panhandle Short Line Railroad. The PSL was not built, and the Santa Fe
used only the northern part of the strip, turning southeast and leaving the rest to
become a major street.

Eighteen miles to the southeast the railroad founded the town of Slaton, and--to
Lubbock's dismay--designated it the division point: the crew change point and the location
of shops and offices. Why Slaton instead of Lubbock? Location. The railroad liked to
locate division points about every 110 miles and Lubbock was simply in the wrong place.

The branch to the south of Lubbock County would be built from Slaton. Why Slaton
and not Lubbock? Distance for one thing. The route would be shorter from Slaton, meaning
less maintanance and less property tax. Also, since the shops and train crews were already
at Slaton, there would be no need to have duplicate facilities at Lubbock for the branch.

Another railroad, the WT&N, had constructed a roadbed from Stanton on the T&P
northwards to Lamesa and was ready to lay tracks. T. J. O'Donnell was building the line.
Reportedly, the Santa Fe bribed him to drop the WT&N project and then hired him to build a
P&NT line from Slaton to Lamesa. The Santa Fe also had an option to purchase the WT&N grade.

The WT&N had been founded a few years earlier by Big Springs citizens to build
northwards from that place. However, Stanton citizens had taken control of the company
and had moved the route to serve their town. This brought no pleasure to Big Springs
citizens and when the Santa Fe stepped in apparantly ready to build to Stanton, it was
too much. They proposed to build their own railroad northward to meet the Santa Fe and
recruited land salesman W. P. Soash in the project.

Soash quickly decided to save hassles by building the railroad himself.

This line was built in 1910, but if you were to examine the rail, the mill stamp
described it as #90 rail rolled in 1913. The line was rebuilt, but I have no
documentation for when. However the oldest and most common date nail on ties is for
1925, so that is probably when the line was rebuilt. Shortly after WW1, the Santa Fe
adopted a program of laying all agricultural branches with #75 or better rail. If there
was a bumper crop somewhere, the heaviest steam locomotives on the railroad could go out
on any branch without problems. Also, overbuilding a light traffic line meant lower
maintainance costs.

Where did the 1913 rail come from? The railroad's employee magazine in 1913 notes
the laying of #90 rail between Canadian and Woodward. Later issues tell of new rail
being laid in this area in 1924. So there was "wear hardened" 1913 rail available for
use on branch lines.

And the original rail on the Lamesa branch? Some very light rail, dated 1880, was
still to be found in sidings and spurs along the line. Operation of this line was
abandoned on February 3 of this year. The rail may already be gone.

There is a story about the construction of this section of roadbed that railroaders
still talk about. I remember the first time I heard this story. I was beside the
tracks, talking with a conductor as he waited for his caboose to come by. He had a
shaved head and was wearing a black cowboy outfit. He looked like Yul Brenner in
Westworld. He told me that during the construction of the Caprock grade, mules were
worked to death and buried inside the roadbed. There is another story about mules and
this particular construction project. Buggy whips were used to encourage mules to work.
The whips wore out quickly and new ones were frequently needed. After awhile, a
paper-pusher in the main office decided that the mule drivers did not know how to take
care of buggy whips and ordered that the railroad would buy no more of them. In short
order, a new item appeared on expense accounts: "mule envigorator." Thinking it was
medicine, the railroad paid without question.

During the final earth-work on the Caprock, a contractor mysteriously disappeared.
The Lubbock Avalanche reported that his wife had been arrested as assessory to murder
and that two men were being sought and that the body was missing. Later, the newspaper
claimed that the body had been found buried 14 feet deep in the roadbed. Still later,
the Avalanche stated that the body had not been found. Then the newspaper lost its Post
City correspondant and, as far as I know, the mystery is unsolved.

The Avalanche also tells that a track worker died when lightning struck the rails.
He left a widow and children with no home or money. The citizens of Lubbock chipped in
and built her a house.

The Coleman Voice-Democrat tells of events at the other end of the line. An
experienced blaster blew himself to bits, and within weeks another blaster died the same
way. Later, a dozen men were buried by an explosion near the Jim Ned Bridge. Another
worker caught a head cold. He mixed up a remedy, boiled it in a tin can over a campfire,
and proceeded to poison himself.


This section was a test track. The Santa Fe was trying to find a way to lengthen
the lives of crossties. At one time, an individual file was kept concerning each tie
between Lubbock and Texico. The file contained information about the type of wood,
chemical composition of the preservative, process, and other information. When a tie
failed, it was autopsied.

The bridges on this line were also experimental. They used concrete slab roadways
on concrete trestle bents. The trestles were too lightly designed and a much heavier
trestle became standard a couple of years later. Many of the 1913 bridges remain on this
line, but all have been modified. On the small bridges the bents have been encased in
concrete, becoming piers. All of the large bridges have been replaced, though usually
the pieces are lying around. Sometimes the pieces are put to use as rip rap, or are
mortered together as a retaining wall. One bridge uses the concrete slab roadway as a channel.

This was the last construction undertaken by the P&NT.

The line to the east was built by an independeant company: the Crosbyton-Southplains
Railroad. The C-B Livestock Company had tried to bring an established railroad company
to Crosby County and had failed. So the C-SP had been organized and built between
Lubbock and Crosbyton during 1910-11 and was sold to the Santa Fe in 1915. It was
claimed that the company had been completely independent of any railroad. Maybeso, but
here are a few facts.

The line was constructed by a contractor who had worked on the Coleman Cutoff. He
used the same mechanical track builder and built Santa Fe standard depots. It may be
that the machine was between jobs and that the contractor happened to have the depot
blueprints on file.

On a minor railroad of this type, you would expect light rail, such as the #60 rail
used by the Santa Fe between Canyon and Plainview. The CSP was built with #75 rail. In
1900, that had been the heaviest weight rail on the entire Santa Fe. The mill stamp on
CSP rail matches that of rail used on the Coleman Cutoff.

Instead of buying used locomotives, new ones came from Baldwin Locomotive Works.
The CSP also purchased a small fleet of Pullman sleepers.

The tracks went through several playa lakes and crossed Blackwater Draw......

Several pre-Santa Fe photos show that the company used tie plates......

Station grounds.......

Something a railroad loved to see alongside its tracks was miles and miles of
prosperous farms. The Santa Fe was deeply committed to the encouragement of farming on
the South Plains. The area was publisized in various railroad publications, including
passenger timetables. Railroad-sponcered experimental farms tested new crops and
methods, and before there was a Texas Tech, Santa Fe experts were roaming the Plains
teaching scientific farming. In 1916, the Santa Fe purchased about 300 sections in
Gaines, Terry, and Yoakum Counties, southwest of Lubbock. This was divided into farming
tracts and sold at low rates to actual farmers. Land speculators were not welcome.

The land was far from any tracks, so a new line had to be built. Several surveys
were run to the Lamesa branch, but the chosen one ran from the new town of Seagraves to
Lubbock. Lubbock was probably chosen because that was the shortest line. It was a good
survey, too; called "the luckiest survey the Santa Fe has ever made." The line was built
by the C-SP, which changed its name to SP&SF, and the line opened in 1918.

Bledsoe (Terminal B. co. of Texas)

FW&DSP 1928


ghost towns

E. L. Laird

OS San Antonio Amtrak

M Gibson

Thursday 3/22/2001 Amtrak #2

AMTK 54, 64 Departed Tow112, TX 03/22/01 05:38
#2 ar San Antonio 1'42" late @ 05:53
#2 dp San Antonio 1'05" late @ 06:30
AMTK 54, 64 Departed Randolph, TX 03/22/01 07:21
AMTK 54, 64 Departed Nolte, TX 03/22/01 07:42
AMTK 54, 64 Departed Luling, TX 03/22/01 08:04

Re: RS: RE717

Wes Leatherock <wleath@...>

"Constructive placement" is a term used for determining the
time the free time starts for demurrage.

It means the car _could_ have been placed at that time except
for something not due to the railroad's fault--the spur to the
industry was full, the business was not yet ready to receive it,
or some similar reason.

A shipper or receiver of freight is given so much "free time"
in the tariff to load or unload cars placed at their business or
at the place they specify. When the railroad is ready to place
the car, and can't do so because of the shipper or receiver, the
car is considered "constructively" placed and the free time starts
running then.

After the free time runs out, the business is charged so much
a day for additional delay.

Wes Leatherock

On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 wrote:

Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:52:13 EST
Subject: Re: RS: RE717

In a message dated 3/21/01 12:40:31 AM Central Standard Time, writes:

RE717 made it's move early to Hardy about an hour ago. Do you know what
"Constructive Placement" means?
Hmmmm as a manager, I use the term "constructive placement" when a product
has no place to go, so I "constructively place" it in the dumpster.

Jason Gore
Mesquite, Tx

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

Re: RS: QT (was: OS Plano TX Mar 19)

Cy and Wynema Martin <cymartin@...>

Most of the stuff whether it is ether, propane, gasoline, etc., right on
down to bunker "C" and on down to coke is Hydrocarbons - various sized
molecules composed of Hydrogen and Carbon. They found they could "crack" the
molecules of say coke, into lighter molecules of the more desired stuff such
as gasoline or propane.
They later learned they could "stack" the left over molecules - combine them
to form other stuff. Ain't Chemistry grand?

At 11:27 PM 3/21/01 -0600, you wrote:

In the old gas plants, they piped the gases out for lighting and
The liquids they condensed and sold for other purposes. The
remaining solid
was coke, which used to fire the still or sold as fuel.
Later, gas manufacturing plants found that they could turn live
steam into
the still while the coal was still red hot and the>
Before the days of "cracking" crude oil, there was such a thing as
And after, I used to see big cuts of SF hoppers from the Conoco refinery
at Ponca City in the 80s. I don't know why the wouldn't still make it if
there's a demand.
I haven't looked lately to see if it's still running, you see a carload
of coke and take little notice.
Anyway, that's what the SF guys told me it was.

Oil refineries distilled crude oil. There wasn't much market
for the
vapors so much of it was flared off and wasted. You could smell a
for miles. I don't think anything smells quite like it. There are
smelling places, such as carbon black plants or paper pulp mills....


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More trains


Chuck & other Texas Norherners. At about 5:45AM UP train ZHOYC passed
detector at MP198 NB on Conroe Palestine sub. Another NB went thru about

Bob Smith
At MP 198 UP Palestine Subdivision
And Close to MP 72.1 BNSF Conroe Subdivision
Conroe, Texas
Lots of pictures at:

156461 - 156480 of 158250