Shutdown, Disconnect


Rick Knight
 

I have had two non responsive engines brought to me recently. Last night is was a factory (proto ?) Installed E unit. Nothing I did would get it to move. All sounds worked, lights, motor sounds. I did a complete shutdown two times, Reset with with the jumper removed, powered, then reinstalled. It would make the brake release sound turn on the lights etc. with multiple double presses of F6. It just would not move. My fear is the solution is simple and I have just forgotten what it is !!!!!! Thanks, Rick.


litespan46
 

Did you try to read the decoder on the program track?

       Gene gleason 


On Mar 23, 2018, at 11:45 AM, rockportdcc@... [QSIndustries] <QSIndustries@...> wrote:

I have had two non responsive engines brought to me recently. Last night is was a factory (proto ?) Installed E unit. Nothing I did would get it to move. All sounds worked, lights, motor sounds. I did a complete shutdown two times, Reset with with the jumper removed, powered, then reinstalled. It would make the brake release sound turn on the lights etc. with multiple double presses of F6. It just would not move. My fear is the solution is simple and I have just forgotten what it is !!!!!! Thanks, Rick.


Tom Wilson
 

I have not worked with that decoder. But does it have an independent brake function? ( at least 2 competitors have one that will keep the loco from moving until released. And at least 1 of those 2 remembers function states with loss of power)..

Just grasping at straws...



Tom Wilson


On Mar 23, 2018 9:52 AM, "rockportdcc@... [QSIndustries]" <QSIndustries@...> wrote:
 

I have had two non responsive engines brought to me recently. Last night is was a factory (proto ?) Installed E unit. Nothing I did would get it to move. All sounds worked, lights, motor sounds. I did a complete shutdown two times, Reset with with the jumper removed, powered, then reinstalled. It would make the brake release sound turn on the lights etc. with multiple double presses of F6. It just would not move. My fear is the solution is simple and I have just forgotten what it is !!!!!! Thanks, Rick.


Lou
 

Rick, Set CV19=0 and make sure it took. Also, Also, do the F6 dance a couple of times pressing the key slow and deliberate. Check the wiring to the motor. Proto units have been known to have lousy wire. The solder joints at the motor break the wire inside the insulation but not the insulation. Don’t just look, give a tug and check k with an ohmmeter.

 

Good Luck.

 

Lou

 

From: QSIndustries@... [mailto:QSIndustries@...]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 11:45 AM
To: QSIndustries@...
Subject: [QSIndustries] Shutdown, Disconnect

 




I have had two non responsive engines brought to me recently. Last night is was a factory (proto ?) Installed E unit. Nothing I did would get it to move. All sounds worked, lights, motor sounds. I did a complete shutdown two times, Reset with with the jumper removed, powered, then reinstalled. It would make the brake release sound turn on the lights etc. with multiple double presses of F6. It just would not move. My fear is the solution is simple and I have just forgotten what it is !!!!!! Thanks, Rick.





Bob Menzies <railscanner@...>
 

If its stuck f9 needs to be pressed to get it out of shutdown mode if you can check status mode 


On Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 10:52 AM rockportdcc@... [QSIndustries], <QSIndustries@...> wrote:
 

I have had two non responsive engines brought to me recently. Last night is was a factory (proto ?) Installed E unit. Nothing I did would get it to move. All sounds worked, lights, motor sounds. I did a complete shutdown two times, Reset with with the jumper removed, powered, then reinstalled. It would make the brake release sound turn on the lights etc. with multiple double presses of F6. It just would not move. My fear is the solution is simple and I have just forgotten what it is !!!!!! Thanks, Rick.


Eugene Azzopardi <EugsStation@...>
 

It may be in consist mode so double check that CV19 is set to 0.

Is the motor ok, disconnect the motor leads from the decoder and apply 12 volts directly to the motor to make sure it is ok.

Cheers...........Eugene

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 2:45 AM, rockportdcc@... [QSIndustries] <QSIndustries@...> wrote:
 

I have had two non responsive engines brought to me recently. Last night is was a factory (proto ?) Installed E unit. Nothing I did would get it to move. All sounds worked, lights, motor sounds. I did a complete shutdown two times, Reset with with the jumper removed, powered, then reinstalled. It would make the brake release sound turn on the lights etc. with multiple double presses of F6. It just would not move. My fear is the solution is simple and I have just forgotten what it is !!!!!! Thanks, Rick.



Rick Knight
 

Yes, read fine. Thanks.


Rick Knight
 

Tried that too. Thanks.


Rick Knight
 

I did check CV19, that was OK. This was at the club and I had too much help!!  One member lifted the board off but the motor was not visible. I will try agan if I get hold of the loco. I will check the motor wires. Thanks, Rick


Rick Knight
 

Bob, I did the F9, F6 dance repeatedly and patiently waiting to here the sound ques. The air release worked but never had the horn blow three times on the reset. I don't do resets lightly. I did not check "status mode" and should have. Thanks, Rick.


Rick Knight
 

Eugene, Consist is 0. Looks like I need to check the wires and motor next. Thanks, Rick.


Nick
 

Rick,

You said one of the locos was a "Proto ??" . The VERY early Proto 2000 E8 and ALCO PAs used a defective motor that was the same thing as an ancient Athearn motor. They would have a tendency to blow decoder outputs because of their nasty power draw.

When I was testing Titans for QSISolutions, I had gone through three decoders before the reason was found. Originally, Josh thought it was my wiring and a possible short in it, but after I removed the motor and did some bench-testing on it, the problem was found. The crummy motor P2K used would spike a LOT while under load . Often peaking at 1 Amp. After I replaced the motor with a good one, the problem went away.

From what you are describing, it sounds exactly like the output transistors went South. All sound functions will work but no motor functions. If you can, disconnect the motor and test the decoder output leads. If you get zip after a complete reload of the firmware (using a QSI programmer) then the problem is more than likely the output circuit.

This information was on a lot of the discussion groups a few years ago. Proto Never admitted they used defective motors and when Walthers bought them out, they were already using better motors .You can identify the defective motor by it's "fake" brass / yellow can and huge flywheels .They also have the bronze strip that contacts the frame in the original non-DCC loco.

I hope this helps. One more suggestion. earlier, someone mentioned that the wires would ofter break from the harness to the motor leads. Make sure you check them with a meter.

Regards,
Nick Kulp


Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/24/2018 8:47 AM, cornwall9@... [QSIndustries] wrote:
Often peaking at 1 Amp. After I replaced the motor with a good one, the problem went away.

    I thought the windings is some (a batch) of those motors was up around 3 amps!

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Rick Knight
 

Nick, Great response, thanks. I have asked the owner to bring me the loco so I can get to the bottom of this. At the club it is more difficult than working here in my shop !!! The irony is the owner had two identicle E8A's. One ran absolutely fine the other as described. Both Have QSI chips dated 2005. Both were bought on ebay.I quickly looked at the box and if my memory is correct they are Proto.My feeling (sense) was that the motor control ckt was blown but I was trying to exhaust all my "tricks" to wake that engine up. It just sat there and laughed at my efforts, and everyone elses !!! I have been aware of the high current motor demand of the earlier Proto's but had not seen a decoder "blown" because of it, at least I don't remember one ???? I have been using TSU2200 2 amp decoders in Protos recently although i did use a select recently on a Proto DL109. I will let the forum know what I find when I get this figured out.  Thanks, Rick.