Once more about programming the Titan FX-DO


Joó Ferenc
 

All,

Long story, questions are at the end of the e-mail!

I have been trying for two years to configure some FX-D0 decoders to use in G scale locos. I know a bit about the decoders but I still need help with programming.

Forget G scale! Whatever loco these are placed into -unless purchased installed by the manufacturer- these will give you a headache!

The FX-DO has two connectors on the top board, each with 8 pins.
I know that the second pin from one end of each 8-pin connectors is V+ and I know the decoder has 12 funcion output ports.

I believe the first pin on each connector that is next to V+ is unused or is for whatever but is not for a function output port of the decoder.
This leavse just the six pins to the other side of the V+ pin to be linked with function output ports of the FX-DO.

I have a decoder from a BLI diesel where not all 12 ports were used. Three ports were not used at all.
When received, I updated the sound project with Quantum Upgrade to the 1141 (Large scale EMD 645) sound project.
After that I added LEDs (with CL2 LED drivers instead of resistors) to all 9 cables and connected them to either of the V+ pins.
I even added cables to the pins unused. So I ended up with 12 cables for 12 theoretical ports.

I thought that by using the programmer, I could programme each port to become a certain light function, but this is where my story really begins.

I took note of what cable was acting as which function. Then I started adding step lights to one end of my loco (two LEDs and a CLs) and connected them to the (white) cable that I thought acted as step lights. But NO! They did not function. I tested the cables and with a 9V battery all was OK.

Right, I will just have to go through the ports with the programmer. Success? NO!

I do have one port where I accidentally left an LED. That seems to be port Nr. 3. I can programme headlights, steplights or whatever to this port, it will work.
But the othe port that has the step light LEDs added to, whichever light output I try to programme and to whichever port, will not function.

Believe me, it is really destroying when you try a thousand times, with all different possibilities, to match the output, the effect and the port - but to no avail.

Then I noticed something - the port that functions (port 3) only has an LED attached to it - and no CL2!
How could that be? Clumsy me, forgot to add the CL2 when soldering...

Yet, it functions fine. It even dims really well with Rule 17 when put in headlight mode and not in motion or going the other way.
And this is where my question is:

QUESTION 1: 

Does anybody have experience in programming or using the FX-DO? Do the ports have enough power to light up more than two LEDs? Maybe they will work with one or at the most two LEDs but not two LEDs and a CL2? 

If using step lights, nothing suggests to use a different port for front or rear step lights whereas there are different ports for Headlight 1 and Headlight 2 and Reverse light 1 and Recerse light 2, so is the FX-DO really capable of powering more than two LEDs from the same port? And a CL2 would count as an LED at the minimum, if not two...  

So maybe the reason I don't get my step lights working is because I added a CL2 in line with two LEDs that consume enough power already? Maybe the LEDs would work OK without the CL2?
(Yes, I know, the simple method is to try without a CL2. But I have bust two FX-DOs already and believe it's better to seek advice before doing anything stupid.) 

QUESTION 2:

With some other decoders, it's possible to set the function outputs (ports) to soecific LED lighting output behaviour. Is this possible with QSI Titan? I haven't found a trace of this in the programmer...

QUESTION 3:

When you have a decoder with 12 ports, what would the process be to test what functions and what not? Say I open the project (1141) -that I wrote on the Titan- in Quantum CVManager. Say I go to ports and set all the light effects to 0 (no port). I know port 3 works (single LED) and I know another port has two LEDs and a CL2 added to it. I can set port 3 to any light effect ("feature") and the single LED will work. But no matter what other port I set to any of these lighting features, the step lights will never come on. IF the port had enough power, would this be the way to test which port the step lights are connected to?

I know there is not much literature on this decoder, despite still being available.... But perhaps one of you knows some stuff about the FX-DO from O gauge experience? I would be interested to know. 

In the meantime, I will try the step lights wothout the CL2. But I would have thought that even if very much dimmed, the LEDs for step lights would have produced at least some small visible light once I got the programming right for them....

Thanks for any inpiut.

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


Joó Ferenc
 

Coming back to this from last night (for me):

I got rid of the CL2 and the lights now work - but with very low brigtness.

I tested the LEDs with a 9 Volt battery and CL2 and the LEDs are really bright. From the Titan FX-DO they are vey low brightness, despite the step light intensity is set to maximum.

This again raises the question of what voltage the function output ports are set to and if that can be increased.

Any ideas, please?

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 3., Cs, 22:54):

All,

Long story, questions are at the end of the e-mail!

I have been trying for two years to configure some FX-D0 decoders to use in G scale locos. I know a bit about the decoders but I still need help with programming.

Forget G scale! Whatever loco these are placed into -unless purchased installed by the manufacturer- these will give you a headache!

The FX-DO has two connectors on the top board, each with 8 pins.
I know that the second pin from one end of each 8-pin connectors is V+ and I know the decoder has 12 funcion output ports.

I believe the first pin on each connector that is next to V+ is unused or is for whatever but is not for a function output port of the decoder.
This leavse just the six pins to the other side of the V+ pin to be linked with function output ports of the FX-DO.

I have a decoder from a BLI diesel where not all 12 ports were used. Three ports were not used at all.
When received, I updated the sound project with Quantum Upgrade to the 1141 (Large scale EMD 645) sound project.
After that I added LEDs (with CL2 LED drivers instead of resistors) to all 9 cables and connected them to either of the V+ pins.
I even added cables to the pins unused. So I ended up with 12 cables for 12 theoretical ports.

I thought that by using the programmer, I could programme each port to become a certain light function, but this is where my story really begins.

I took note of what cable was acting as which function. Then I started adding step lights to one end of my loco (two LEDs and a CLs) and connected them to the (white) cable that I thought acted as step lights. But NO! They did not function. I tested the cables and with a 9V battery all was OK.

Right, I will just have to go through the ports with the programmer. Success? NO!

I do have one port where I accidentally left an LED. That seems to be port Nr. 3. I can programme headlights, steplights or whatever to this port, it will work.
But the othe port that has the step light LEDs added to, whichever light output I try to programme and to whichever port, will not function.

Believe me, it is really destroying when you try a thousand times, with all different possibilities, to match the output, the effect and the port - but to no avail.

Then I noticed something - the port that functions (port 3) only has an LED attached to it - and no CL2!
How could that be? Clumsy me, forgot to add the CL2 when soldering...

Yet, it functions fine. It even dims really well with Rule 17 when put in headlight mode and not in motion or going the other way.
And this is where my question is:

QUESTION 1: 

Does anybody have experience in programming or using the FX-DO? Do the ports have enough power to light up more than two LEDs? Maybe they will work with one or at the most two LEDs but not two LEDs and a CL2? 

If using step lights, nothing suggests to use a different port for front or rear step lights whereas there are different ports for Headlight 1 and Headlight 2 and Reverse light 1 and Recerse light 2, so is the FX-DO really capable of powering more than two LEDs from the same port? And a CL2 would count as an LED at the minimum, if not two...  

So maybe the reason I don't get my step lights working is because I added a CL2 in line with two LEDs that consume enough power already? Maybe the LEDs would work OK without the CL2?
(Yes, I know, the simple method is to try without a CL2. But I have bust two FX-DOs already and believe it's better to seek advice before doing anything stupid.) 

QUESTION 2:

With some other decoders, it's possible to set the function outputs (ports) to soecific LED lighting output behaviour. Is this possible with QSI Titan? I haven't found a trace of this in the programmer...

QUESTION 3:

When you have a decoder with 12 ports, what would the process be to test what functions and what not? Say I open the project (1141) -that I wrote on the Titan- in Quantum CVManager. Say I go to ports and set all the light effects to 0 (no port). I know port 3 works (single LED) and I know another port has two LEDs and a CL2 added to it. I can set port 3 to any light effect ("feature") and the single LED will work. But no matter what other port I set to any of these lighting features, the step lights will never come on. IF the port had enough power, would this be the way to test which port the step lights are connected to?

I know there is not much literature on this decoder, despite still being available.... But perhaps one of you knows some stuff about the FX-DO from O gauge experience? I would be interested to know. 

In the meantime, I will try the step lights wothout the CL2. But I would have thought that even if very much dimmed, the LEDs for step lights would have produced at least some small visible light once I got the programming right for them....

Thanks for any inpiut.

Üdvözlettel,
Best regards,
MfG,

Joó Ferenc
GSM:   +36204141621

NOHAB Apartman

Hollófészek Vendégház

Kikötő Vendégház

Badacsonytördemic
Debreczenyi u. 9.


kjlovesya
 

Hello,

  I'm no expert and the following is pure speculation, but did you test the actual voltage of the +V?   The Titan (and Revolution) series of decoders have both a regulated +5Volt (usually a red with white striped wire) and an unregulated ~ +12 Volt (blue wire).   Are you sure you have the correct wire?


Best regards,
KJ


Joó Ferenc
 

Hi,

5V would be too much for a single LED yet no harm so I guess the output is less than 5V.

I still need to find a way to measure it, though.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

kjlovesya via groups.io <kjlovesya=yahoo.ca@groups.io> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 4., Pén 21:21):

Hello,

  I'm no expert and the following is pure speculation, but did you test the actual voltage of the +V?   The Titan (and Revolution) series of decoders have both a regulated +5Volt (usually a red with white striped wire) and an unregulated ~ +12 Volt (blue wire).   Are you sure you have the correct wire?


Best regards,
KJ


kjlovesya
 

Hi Joó,

  I just checked the document accompanying the decoder.  The Titan FX - DO does not have a user accessed +12 Volt connection.   All light port connectors are labelled as having +5V common.  I know the Revolution and Titan HO decoders allow use of the +12V.  I don't know if the Titan FX - DO allows  around +12 Volt for the light circuit but I suspect it does.  Technically, the unregulated + side of the bridge rectifier is your track voltage minus 1.4 Volt (drop from the two diodes in the rectifier).  You could use that  as your +12 V (although the voltage may be slightly higher depending on track voltage).

  White LED turns on, and limits itself to about 3 Volts.  They allow a maximum sustainable current of up to 20 mA.  You must always limit the current to a LED.  The remaining voltage is generally dissipated through a resistor.  You mention a CL2 device (presumably a Current Limiter device) of which I'm not familiar.

   Multiple LEDs can be run in series, but the supply voltage must be greater than the sum of the voltage of the LEDs.  Again, the remaining voltage is generally dissipated through a resistor.

  The formula is always the same:   (Supply Voltage - (sum) LEDs voltage ) <-- do this first, then divide by preferred operating current = resistor value in Ohms.   e.g. for a single LED in the 5 Volt circuit   (5V - 3V) / 20 mA = 100 Ohm 

e.g.  for two LEDs in the same circuit   (12 V - 6 V ) / 20 mA = 300 Ohm.   Since the supply is unregulated, I suggest measuring the rectified voltage,  lowering the current and increase the resistance.  Adjust the formula accordingly.

  20mA current will render an extremely bright LED glow.   You can reduce the brightness using a higher resistance (lowering the current).   Try the formula using 10mA.

Best regards,
KJ                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          


peteski7
 

CL2 is possibly a device called "constant current diode" (Google search will show you examples).  That device itself needs some voltage across its leads to operate properly.  Same with LED current-limiting resistors -- even after adding all the voltages across any series connected LEDs the supply voltage should be at least couple of volts higher for the resistor to "waste" the voltage.

Peteski


Jim B
 

I have done all sorts of programming with the FX-DO decoders in GGD locos.     I did the original stuff with my handheld 402 controller from Digitrax.    I did have to program on the main to get enough power for the sound decoders.    It is complex to program this way, but very doable once you get the hang of it.    You do have to study the 376 page manual to find the CVs you need to work with.

After that I got a SPROG II programmer and use it with the JMRI decoderpro software to program these.    With Decoderpro, all programming is done with menu windows on a computer.    Much easier to do things, but still takes time to read or write all the CVs.

As to your questions yes I have lighted multiple LEDS with one output port no problem.

Yes you can program different behavior for the lights on each port.    For example, the GGD locos come with a cab interior light that usually on port 10.    The cab light control has a delay when starting and stopping that can be reduced but not eliminated.   I don't like this feature, the light is on too long for me.    So I reprogram them.   I go to the light port screen and move port 10 to some other light such as "rear markers" on a F unit that does not have rear markers.    Then I go to the light control screen and program rear markers to eliminate this delay and have the cab lights only come on when the loco stops.    This is doable for the marker light controller.     I do this with any lights that don't behave the way I like, and set them up to do what I want.   

Also there is a large menu page for assigning the function buttons to do diifferent things like grade crossing whistles or flashing ditch lights or whatever.   

I have no idea what a CL2 is.    So I can't comment on that.

I have had no problems with brightness on the LEDs.   All the light controllers do have menu settings for adjusting the brightness however, so something could be set dim, that you want to be set brighter.    This is a sliding scale from 0-255.

A final note QSI makes their own programmer for their decoders that could do the same stuff.    it would work fine.    However, the JMRI software with the sprog has setups for most major brands and hundreds of models of decoders within those brands.    One note however, the JMRI software as far as I know, cannot download new sound files.   


Joó Ferenc
 

Thanks for all your input.

In the meantime I found a drawing that confirms 5 Volts for the V+.

KJ, would this be the + of the bridge rectifier to use for track voltage? Thanks. 

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

kjlovesya via groups.io <kjlovesya=yahoo.ca@groups.io> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 5., Szo 16:14):

Hi Joó,

  I just checked the document accompanying the decoder.  The Titan FX - DO does not have a user accessed +12 Volt connection.   All light port connectors are labelled as having +5V common.  I know the Revolution and Titan HO decoders allow use of the +12V.  I don't know if the Titan FX - DO allows  around +12 Volt for the light circuit but I suspect it does.  Technically, the unregulated + side of the bridge rectifier is your track voltage minus 1.4 Volt (drop from the two diodes in the rectifier).  You could use that  as your +12 V (although the voltage may be slightly higher depending on track voltage).

  White LED turns on, and limits itself to about 3 Volts.  They allow a maximum sustainable current of up to 20 mA.  You must always limit the current to a LED.  The remaining voltage is generally dissipated through a resistor.  You mention a CL2 device (presumably a Current Limiter device) of which I'm not familiar.

   Multiple LEDs can be run in series, but the supply voltage must be greater than the sum of the voltage of the LEDs.  Again, the remaining voltage is generally dissipated through a resistor.

  The formula is always the same:   (Supply Voltage - (sum) LEDs voltage ) <-- do this first, then divide by preferred operating current = resistor value in Ohms.   e.g. for a single LED in the 5 Volt circuit   (5V - 3V) / 20 mA = 100 Ohm 

e.g.  for two LEDs in the same circuit   (12 V - 6 V ) / 20 mA = 300 Ohm.   Since the supply is unregulated, I suggest measuring the rectified voltage,  lowering the current and increase the resistance.  Adjust the formula accordingly.

  20mA current will render an extremely bright LED glow.   You can reduce the brightness using a higher resistance (lowering the current).   Try the formula using 10mA.

Best regards,
KJ                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          


Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 

No JMRI cannot do dat:(
To load sound files you must have the manufacture's hardware and software.
TCC:}

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Mn42 in 1923
group_list@...

On 05February2022, at 09:44, Jim B <prrjim@...> wrote:

One note however, the JMRI software as far as I know, cannot download new sound files.
--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and 35n42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...


Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 

Joó;
That is not a trace, but rosin. Do not know for sure were the + pin is connected.
However, it appeares to be a thru hole part. Therefore, you should find that pin on the other side.
TCC:}

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Mn42 in 1923
group_list@...

On 05February2022, at 13:50, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:

KJ, would this be the + of the bridge rectifier to use for track voltage? Thanks.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621
--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and 35n42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...


Joó Ferenc
 

For sure but I guess as the two track wires go to the ~ legs, the + must be track voltage DC.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr <group_list@...> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 5., Szo 23:35):

Joó;
That is not a trace, but rosin.  Do not know for sure were the + pin is connected.
However, it appeares to be a thru hole part.  Therefore, you should find that pin on the other side.
TCC:}

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Mn42 in 1923
group_list@...

> On 05February2022, at 13:50, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:
>
> KJ, would this be the + of the bridge rectifier to use for track voltage? Thanks.
>
> Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,
>
> Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
> Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
> GSM: +36 20 4141 621



--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and 35n42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...






Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
 

Yes it is

Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and Mn42 in 1923
group_list@...

On 05February2022, at 15:51, Joó Ferenc <ferencj@...> wrote:

For sure but I guess as the two track wires go to the ~ legs, the + must be track voltage DC.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621
--
Talmadge C 'TC' Carr
Sn42 and 35n42 somewhere in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest
group_list@...


kjlovesya
 

Hi Joó,

  Yes, you have found the + side of the full wave bridge rectifier.   Flip the board over and you will notice the trace that goes to a large electrolytic capacitor.  You will find the capacitor connection point easier to solder as the rectifier can be a heat sink.

   Remember, it's not a regulated +12 Volts; it's track voltage - 1.4 Volts. 

Best regards,
KJ


Joó Ferenc
 

Ah, so this one. Thanks so much!

The CL LED driver should supply whatever the LEDs need. By thevway, the Meanwell power supply already regulates voltage (in my case to 23.8 Volts).

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

kjlovesya via groups.io <kjlovesya=yahoo.ca@groups.io> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 6., Vas 18:54):

Hi Joó,

  Yes, you have found the + side of the full wave bridge rectifier.   Flip the board over and you will notice the trace that goes to a large electrolytic capacitor.  You will find the capacitor connection point easier to solder as the rectifier can be a heat sink.

   Remember, it's not a regulated +12 Volts; it's track voltage - 1.4 Volts. 

Best regards,
KJ


kjlovesya
 

  No!  Not that SMD capacitor.   The capacitor I'm referring to is on the other side of the board.   Trace the printed circuit from the + pin of the rectifier to a large electrolytic capacitor (this is marked for polarity and I think it's rated at 35 VDC).  Obviously, the plus side will be connected to the + trace.

  Note also, your track voltage may be too high for the decoder micro-controller if you are using a regulated 23.8 Volt power supply.  Your rectified voltage would be whatever is on the track minus 1.4 Volts.    Do you know what is actually on the rails?   You may have to add a 12 volt regulator to the circuit to supply a +12 V common to protect that micro-controller.

  How many LEDs are you planning to use?

Best regards,
KJ


Greg Elmassian
 

The CL2 is a constant CURRENT regulator, 20 ma, takes input up to 90v. (it is a small IC actually)

But the voltage drop across it is minimum 5 volts, so you cannot use it on 5v supplies... no voltage left for the LED... that is why did not work well.
Could use +voltage (after main full wave bridge), since it will limit to 20 ma... that is what I would do... the unregulated rectified track voltage.

Greg


Joó Ferenc
 

What I circled is the + foot of the large capacitor on the other side. But easier to solder on this side of the panel.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

kjlovesya via groups.io <kjlovesya=yahoo.ca@groups.io> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 7., Hét 2:23):

  No!  Not that SMD capacitor.   The capacitor I'm referring to is on the other side of the board.   Trace the printed circuit from the + pin of the rectifier to a large electrolytic capacitor (this is marked for polarity and I think it's rated at 35 VDC).  Obviously, the plus side will be connected to the + trace.

  Note also, your track voltage may be too high for the decoder micro-controller if you are using a regulated 23.8 Volt power supply.  Your rectified voltage would be whatever is on the track minus 1.4 Volts.    Do you know what is actually on the rails?   You may have to add a 12 volt regulator to the circuit to supply a +12 V common to protect that micro-controller.

  How many LEDs are you planning to use?

Best regards,
KJ


kjlovesya
 

Hi Joó,

  If you find the SMD easier to access and of the same circuit then use it.   After reading Greg's post (immediately above your last post) I suggest using the CL2 in this circuit.   If the voltage is available for more than one LED you could configure the LEDs in series or even series/parallel (depending on the brightness required).

Best regards,
KJ


Joó Ferenc
 

KJ,

Series is OK. Each parallel needs its own CL2. Thanks.

Üdvözlettel / Best regards / MfG,

Joó Ferenc / Ferenc Joó
Badacsonytördemic, Hungary
GSM: +36 20 4141 621

NOHAB Apartman
http://nohabapartman.hu

Hollófészek Vendégház
http://hollofeszek.hu

Kikötő Vendégház
http://kikotovendeghaz.hu

Sent from Samsung Galaxy phone

kjlovesya via groups.io <kjlovesya=yahoo.ca@groups.io> ezt írta (időpont: 2022. febr. 7., Hét 16:31):

Hi Joó,

  If you find the SMD easier to access and of the same circuit then use it.   After reading Greg's post (immediately above your last post) I suggest using the CL2 in this circuit.   If the voltage is available for more than one LED you could configure the LEDs in series or even series/parallel (depending on the brightness required).

Best regards,
KJ


Greg Elmassian
 

Exactly, if you added more lamps in parallel to the CL2, then you would be dividing the current between lamps and the lamp current would vary all the time as lamps went on and off.

One other side benefit in general, using CL2s allows you to use the unregulated track voltage (i.e. the rectified DCC signal after the main full wave bridge rectifier), so you do not "load down" the internal 5 volt supply, which is from an on-board regulator.

In most cases, this 5 volt supply is fine, but I use the G Scale Titan units, and they have 14 outputs, you COULD overload the 5v supply using all of them.

Greg